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The Twin Peaks Lounge

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Perception de Ambiguity
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The Twin Peaks Lounge

#121

Post by Perception de Ambiguity » September 6th, 2017, 1:50 pm

Carmel1379 on Sep 5 2017, 09:05:40 PM wrote:I don't

Hulk-smash

an owl and ambient soundscapes.
>if it were popcorn that would be really over-the-top<

I think sandwiches are more poignant for something that premieres on TV, but yeah, I didn't even make that connection, I only thought about what this scene, being Candie's last one - and hence within this context you could even say it's her destiny - might say about the character. What it potentially says about Hawk, for example, I found interesting. He stumbles in confused and out of all the characters that are there this spiritual man who usually looks beneath the surface is the only one who needs to be told that the dead man on the floor who has the physical appearance of Cooper is really not Cooper.

The way Evil Coop gets to the sheriff's station is pretty hilarious. The correct coordinates that lead him to the entry of the black lodge(?), as we are told during Cole's exposition dump, he got from Ray Monroe, who turns out to have been a paid FBI informant. Evil Coop possibly only arrives to the spot at the exact right time of day by pure chance. He gets caged up inside the lodge, swallowed up by the machine which craps him out in front of the sheriff's station and he has no idea why. The way he says "What is this?" is identical to when he said it a few episodes earlier and continued it with "Kindgergarten? Nursery school?"

>They were connected by multi-dimensional lodges of dreams, after all, she wants his help, that man quite different from her tormentor, Bob.<

I think Laura herself actually never asks for Cooper's help, not after her death and certainly not in "Return". The only one who really asks him for something to do with Laura is the very man who killed her, and this man who himself is already dead only asks him to "find Laura". What for? Find her and do what with her? Does Leland just want to live together with Laura in the afterlife? And if you think of FWWM's ending, Laura couldn't have been happier to have been released from life, she finally found her angel. Perhaps the lesson all along was to let sleeping corpses lie. And after having rewatched Part 18 now I think so more than ever. But I'll write something about that later, probably.

>so many odysseys can happen<

Ha, Odessa!
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#122

Post by Carmel1379 » September 6th, 2017, 2:50 pm

Perception de Ambiguity on Sep 6 2017, 07:50:22 AM wrote:
Carmel1379 on Sep 5 2017, 09:05:40 PM wrote:I don't

Hulk-smash

an owl and ambient soundscapes.
I think sandwiches

with "Kindgergarten?

Odessa!
Sandwiches - In front of TV sets and computer screens you're right; popcorn being associated with the cinematic milieu doesn't really fit and it isn't something casually digestible that would pass on unnoticed, but it would definitively break the fourth wall and expose the artifice of the scene. The series is of course much more cinematic than anything appearing on TV, conceived as one long film. The Giant's black lodge room too is one big theatre*. Speaking of which, I suppose it would be pretty dope to watch these weekly episodes theatrically, like a phantasm regularly attending Club Silencio's metafictional shows.

*Were there many TV sets visible in Twin Peaks? Sarah Palmer has one, and obviously Dougie watches 'Sunset Blvd.' at some point, but nothing else comes to my mind right now. Perhaps Lynch decided that the recurring TV static in FWWM was already sufficient.

Good Coop also gets there fairly funnily, his phone call being an intervention (similarly to the likewise convenient-artificial Vegas-Cole phone call) to the awkward Truman-Evil Coop staring contest to ask if the coffee is ready. :lol: But my biggest laugh in the last two episodes (and perhaps the entire show) was Cole shouting "DOUGIE IS COOPER? HOW THE HELL IS THIS?"


Laura - For sure, the situation is much more complex and delicate. Mere innocent phrases like "we'll bring you home" must be terrifying for her, even if she doesn't register that on a conscious level, deep down she knows that her father is Bob, through multiple premonitions and examples of dysfunctionality we know all about from FWWM. She's a completely lost and distraught individual, falling in empty space faster and faster, with no points of welfare, understanding and true connection to anyone else ("You don't know me James. Even Donna doesn't know me."), especially because she's obviously so inconsistent and dissonant inside ("I love you James!" Runs away.). We know that Coop holds her arm when she sees the angels and that she whispers something in Cooper's ears (twice or more), but we never know exactly what is it ("My father killed me", but what about 25 years later? And in the last ending credits shot of the series?), it might not have been a "call for help".

Leland asking Coop to "find Laura" reminded me of his death scene in the original TP, when Coop said he saw that Leland reached the light, and that Laura forgave him. But now with Laura lost between past and future, possibly existing in different realms situated on alternate timelines, Leland can only reach his catharsis if Coop finds Laura for him. Or maybe Leland was just worried that his Laura would be in even-greater danger in Odessa (she killed a man, after all, and who knows what else her alter-ego Carrie Page did). But Coop dragging her back down was just another painful reminder of what happened in 'Twin Peaks', and thus the loop of pain is restarted, as you put it.

I don't know, I haven't rewatched the finale episodes yet, maybe I'll have something more to add then.
Last edited by Carmel1379 on September 6th, 2017, 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
IMDb, letterboxd
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whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?


Well here he is skidded out onto the Zone like a planchette on a Ouija board, and what shows up inside the empty circle in his brain might string together into a message, might not, he'll just have to see.

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
t o B e c o n t i n u e d

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#123

Post by ChrisReynolds » September 6th, 2017, 3:10 pm

Perception de Ambiguity on Sep 6 2017, 07:50:22 AM wrote:The way Evil Coop gets to the sheriff's station is pretty hilarious. The correct coordinates that lead him to the entry of the black lodge(?), as we are told during Cole's exposition dump, he got from Ray Monroe, who turns out to have been a paid FBI informant.
I think these were the coordinates for entry to the white lodge. Evil Cooper had three sets of coordinates to the white lodge: I think one from Ray, one from Phillip Jefferies and one from the arm of Major Briggs' corpse. Two were decoys to destroy him, but can anybody shed any light on which ones were the real coordinates?

Great analysis, PdA and Carmel.

My thoughts on the way this series tied up was that it was a natural extension of themes examined in Inland Empire, of characters finding out they are part of a fictional story and becoming trapped in shifting planes of reality.

That Evil Cooper was finally able to surpass all obstacles and get into the white lodge may have led to the tragic ending. Evil Cooper's face appears in a cage, The Giant gestures, and on the cinema screen the image of Laura Palmer's house shifts to the location outside the sheriff's station. Then Evil Cooper is then sucked up by the tubes and resuperimposed over events. It seems like he's achieved nothing other than getting to another location in Twin Peaks, but by entering, I think Evil Cooper, or possibly Judy, were been able to corrupt the intended crowd-pleasing happy ending.

Twin Peaks to me has always been about a soap-opera-world that becomes infected with real-world evil that begins with the death of Laura Palmer. In the final episode, Cooper and Diane attempt to rescue Laura by heading maybe not to the real world, or at least a level of reality closer to it. In a more realistic world, Cooper can no longer be the unrealistic paragon of goodness he always was, but is now contains at least a small amount of evil in him. And the fact that the Palmers' house is now owned by the people who own the house in real life feels like another clue to this. The fact that the coffee shop Cooper goes to is called "Judy's" is a worrying sign that Judy may hold sway over this world.
Last edited by ChrisReynolds on September 6th, 2017, 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#124

Post by Carmel1379 » September 6th, 2017, 3:43 pm

ChrisReynolds on Sep 6 2017, 09:10:12 AM wrote:My thoughts on the way this series tied up was that it was a natural extension of themes examined in Inland Empire, of characters finding out they are part of a fictional story and becoming trapped in shifting planes of reality.

Twin Peaks to me has always been about a soap-opera-world that becomes infected with real-world evil that begins with the death of Laura Palmer.
Those two points are spot-on, the Twin Peaks finale nicely emphasises these things once again.

INLAND EMPIRE is of course the culmination of the metafictional depiction of complexly intertwined planes of reality and fiction, Lynch's purest work, but both 'Lost Highway' and 'Mulholland Drive' were already heavily invested in this. One of the few times Lynch ever gave a conceptual clue to decipher his films, is with providing the phrase "dissociative/psychogenic fugue" (in the context of LH) that many people have employed ever since in interpretations. Conjured, dreamed up, surreal characters inhabiting ambiguous spaces, often within hallucinations, stories or folk tales has been a standard narrative grip for Lynch. For some reason many people find this disconcerting - the idea that for example Betty is Diane's dream makes many viewers feel disappointed because somehow they feel the fantasy persona is diminished in value, less important, only a trick. I never quite understood this position, and INLAND EMPIRE completely trashes this by interweaving so many planes of reality, that there exists no one stable ground, an absolute reference point. In other words, dreams have the same ontological validity as "the Real" (whatever that is), everything exists on an univocal complex interconnected plane of immanence. "We are like the dreamer who dreams and then lives inside the dream". And upon hearing interpretations like "Betty is Diane's dream", I wouldn't merely give up and take that as a given, but turn that proposition around, consider the film in the sense of "Diane is Betty's dream", etc. The high concentration of connections and symbols Lynch uses across his work hint at multi-faceted explorations. This to me seems like the things going on in the finale of 'Twin Peaks', which I'll rewatch this evening.
Last edited by Carmel1379 on September 6th, 2017, 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
IMDb, letterboxd
Image
whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?


Well here he is skidded out onto the Zone like a planchette on a Ouija board, and what shows up inside the empty circle in his brain might string together into a message, might not, he'll just have to see.

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
t o B e c o n t i n u e d

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#125

Post by Perception de Ambiguity » September 6th, 2017, 4:23 pm

Carmel1379 on Sep 6 2017, 08:50:36 AM wrote:*Were there many TV sets visible in Twin Peaks? Sarah Palmer has one, and obviously Dougie watches 'Sunset Blvd.' at some point, but nothing else comes to my mind right now. Perhaps Lynch decided that the recurring TV static in FWWM was already sufficient.
"Return" is filled with screens. The original run also already commented a lot on its own existence as a soapy TV show and a mystery, by the way. Probably not by any means this much but it certainly was there from the beginning (after the pilot, I guess). But back to "Return". It wasn't only TV sets. The importance of the motif of watching in the series absolutely can not be overstated. This motif of course pertains to more themes than just watching a TV show, but many of the instances do evoke a connection to the viewer who is watching the show. Many of the most impactful occurrences in the narrative includes an audience of onlookers in the scene whose reactions reflect our own, the people in the club watching Audrey's dance, Richard's hit-and-run, the gang watching the arm wrestling match, people witnessing Dougie momentary snapping out of it and overpowering hitman Spike, to name just a few. More than TV sets it is really surveillance monitors and the like, as well as cameras this time, anything to do with watching relatively immediate reality, even if it unfolds on an electrical device.

The people who are seen watching television usually are by themselves, and what they are watching is repetitive. Sarah's doc and boxing match, Nadine watching Jacoby's webshow that is pretty much the same every time, Dougie's Gordon Cole reminder, the guy watching the box from a couch in the first episode is very reminiscent of TV watching, and something more far-fetched is Johnny Horne watching his Dumbland-like-faced teddy bear with its lightbulb head illuminating its face and repeating the same comforting words again and again, etc. They are shut-ins, it is a solitary activity, comforting in its escapist repetition, but it hurts your life, like the TV remote control Rodney Mitchum gets hit in the face with.

In contrast the characters watching surveillance monitors much of the time do so in groups, the gang watching Evil Coop on a life sized monitor, the Mitchum brothers watching Candie on their monitors and the casino surveillance system in general, the FBI looking at photos in an office on a monitor, the police station where all the emergency calls come in, and many more. Characters watching surveillance type monitors participate in life more, The Mitchum brothers watch the TV news together with their girls around, but the news is almost as immediate as surveillance monitors.

And I think little good ever came from the mobile phone screens we have seen. To think you have seen "Twin Peaks" on a fucking telephone...such a sadness...get real!
Last edited by Perception de Ambiguity on September 6th, 2017, 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#126

Post by Carmel1379 » September 6th, 2017, 5:05 pm

Perception de Ambiguity on Sep 6 2017, 10:23:05 AM wrote:And I think little good ever came from the mobile phone screens we have seen. To think you have seen "Twin Peaks" on a fucking telephone...such a sadness...get real!
The theme of watching and screens is definitely highly prominent; I was asking specifically about TV sets, but it's true that the image of the TV and everything it entails mutates to greater machines and areas of life, through innovation. Especially the theme of technological influence and novelty within the lives of all those 90s characters which are now 25 years older is an important change in the Twin Peaks town; all those now-elderly people grappling with their smartphones, webcams and devices. Lucy doesn't understand cellphones, but is keen on buying couches from amazon. People can talk to each other without leaving their desks. Things that make us reflect back on ourselves, the viewers, disseminating our own information about the show in social networks like this one.

This is a light-hearted version of the more protruding dark motifs and imagery related to e-lec-tri-city, sockets, wires and pylons, which are directly related to the Black Lodge and an essential compound of Lynchian associations for the techno-industrial ambient factory setting that inspired most prominently his Eraserhead, Elephant Man, Inland Empire and now Twin Peaks.

The transmutation from organic bodies to electro-intelligenic things is another frequent visualised subject - the evolution of the Arm is now a Tree resembling charged axons; Phillip Jeffries now "who doesn't really exist anymore, at least not in the normal sense", became a... steam-pot bell(?); Coop had to go through a socket to get back to reality, and so on. I'd link that to the body horror of the Baby in 'Eraserhead', the crippled people we can find in the abject places Evil Cooper often visits, the drunk and girl in the cells, and the rash one of the girls in the Roadhouse has. Those changes then can of course be connected metaphorically in a general sense to the loneliness of Sarah Palmer watching scary nature documentaries, and those other examples you mentioned.

To just mention two other examples related to cameras, watching and documentation - we have the opaque billionaire glass box analysis, and Evil Cooper using some sort of device to hack into the FBI database which has access to plenty of information about the world, keeping tabs on its citizens ("There are n numbers of Douglas Joneses here."). INLAND EMPIRE at some point includes a line "there is nothing more precious than information", information that will of course be supplied and transmitted by the omnipresent cameras, screens and telephones of our world.
Last edited by Carmel1379 on September 6th, 2017, 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
IMDb, letterboxd
Image
whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?


Well here he is skidded out onto the Zone like a planchette on a Ouija board, and what shows up inside the empty circle in his brain might string together into a message, might not, he'll just have to see.

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
t o B e c o n t i n u e d

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#127

Post by Perception de Ambiguity » September 6th, 2017, 8:01 pm

I watched Part 18 again, so here is the threatened add-on:

Electricity (of course) brings back Dougie for a reunion with the family to warm our hearts, but unlike Laura Dougie never died, so it isn't too convenient either. You can still basically feel MIKE mentally rolling his eyes as the guy appears in the seat, looking around and asking "Where am I?" with his dopey Dougie smile. Then Laura evaporates in the forest "again" so *plop* Cooper is back in the Lodge, replaying many of the Lodge scenes we saw in the first episodes. Audrey is implied to be the arm now when it asks the same question she asked earlier ("Is it the story of the little girl who lived down the lane?") and, well, the arm is little else than the tree that happens to stand by the Lodge entry anyway.

What I felt the rest of the episode told was something like this: Diane waited for Cooper to overcome his obsession with Laura and to return to her. He assures her that he snapped out of this fantasy and that he is all hers now. She is doubtful but gives him a chance. They drive to a motel and I like how their room is full of Lynch's typical floor lamps but when Diane turns on the light we are struck by how only the ugly harsh overhead light goes on. Coop doesn't seem to be quite into the sex, and as she tries to get some emotion out of his face her hands seem to shape all the other incarnations of Cooper. The night ends and they go to sleep.

We may see Cooper wake up the next morning or he may just dream to wake up. Certainly pretty much everything has changed. The room, the motel, the place, the car, the names, the feel. Not even the trees are singing anymore. Their sound as the wind whips their branches sounds harsh, like all they do in all the time they exist is struggling to pull themselves together, screaming to themselves: "Don't break, don't break, don't break!" Not that they haven't probably already stopped singing the day before; the hunched over Cooper, the constantly disquieted Diane, the awkwardly quiet car ride, it all already felt uncomfortably real. But now Cooper is alone in a strange place, and the feeling is even more amplified. He returns to his obsession, whether he knows it or not. As a woman opens the door to her crummy apartment in Odessa Cooper found what he was looking for, unexpectedly so for him, it seems, or maybe just unexpectedly quickly. Now to return her to her Sarah, whether the woman knows she is Laura or not, "You look like Laura to me so you are her and I will save you, damnit!".

The woman who calls herself Carrie Page agrees to drive with him to Washington D.C. State to a town she never heard of. But repeatedly we are made aware of the fact that the woman is eager to leave Odessa and leave her old life behind, and with a rotting (BOB-ish-looking) corpse sitting in her living room it's easy to see why, but this is a very different motivation than wanting to go back to her alleged birthplace and resume her previous life. All the signs point towards there being no hope for a happy reunion. Everything is wrong here, but we want to believe in it as much as Cooper wants to believe in it. We cling to the smallest things to fuel our hope, like a white horse statue in Carrie Page's apartment, but this object simultaneously serves as a painful reminder to us of the grieving Sarah when she saw a white horse in her bedroom.

What to make of this "Carrie Page" person wearing a horseshoe around her neck which reminds us of the Silver Mustang Casino? Is it a good sign? Is it a bad one? A horseshoe means luck, so it's...uhm...good? Errr, what a mess... This world seems more real than ever so Cooper must be awake now, right? But if this is so much more real than "Twin Peaks" than what does this mean for the chances of a reunion between these beloved "Twin Peaks" characters? Never mind, we try to suppress the confusing thoughts and just keep on hoping for the best.

The minutes go by uneventfully and the tension rises with each passing minute. The screentime is filled (barely) with mini-events, unfounded paranoia over being followed by another car, a stop at a gas station that radiates a garish light that couldn't look any less Lynchian although the amount of screen that is steeped in deep black in the same shot couldn't be any more Lynchian.

The RR Diner is closed, what??? But it exists, it does exist, and so does the town of Twin Peaks, it is happening, it must! Surely it can't be too much to ask at this point, right? Making the tragedy undone failed. Sure, it was silly to expect that, we learned our lesson.

Finally they arrive at the house. The editing is really taking no shortcuts here, walking up the couple of stairs to the Palma house never has taken this agonizingly long. OK, seriously, we all paid the price. 25 years of grief from a mother and the folks of Twin Peaks, 25 years of obsessing over the case of Laura by Cooper, and whatever the hell Laura went through, so much in denial that she doesn't even know that she was Laura or remember anything about the first 17 years of her life. And after all this time that has passed it won't be the same again anyway, it couldn't. Not by a long shot. But it's, you know, at least something. So this really CAN'T be too much to ask.

*knock* *knock* goes the door, and we wait. *knock* *knock* it goes again and we wait some more. It's a relatively big house, I guess, so it could take a bit, and clearly somebody is home... Hey, even if it is only a dream, at least we can see it happen, if it is only a dream we might as well see it happen. It's only one more reason why it must, if Cooper is the dreamer and he wants it so much then his subconscious will produce Sarah behind this door.

Finally, the door opens, and it is...somebody. Carrie's look while looking at the woman in the door seems to say "So this is supposed to be my mom, hm...?" We know better. Coop, flabbergasted, interrogates the occupant clumsily. OK, it's this woman's house, so Sarah just lives somewhere else now, no biggie, just a minor detour, Coop will find her and see her reunited with her daughter. What now, Coop? Think! Check the registry or something, find out where Sarah lives now...and
*boom*
"What year is this?",
there is no way around it, Cooper is exposed as having no clue what is going on, and what a punch in the stomach that is. Carrie Page, wondering what she has gotten herself into with this guy who right now looks like Dougie somewhere in between chasing a cup of coffee and being alert but confused over hearing the words "red door". And she is actually disappointed at this point, because she too has gotten her hopes up for a quiet life in a nice little town away from Odessa. Well, you know what happened next, because that previous punch in the stomach was just the prelude to a punch to our soul, and putting those feelings into words, who wants that?


Since this question came up, my feeling was that what Laura whispers to Cooper and which visibly shocks him was something to the effect of "Laura can't be saved" or "Laura doesn't want to return, she likes where she is now." But he suppressed that insight and continued on his mission anyway. And it makes sense to me that the whispered message would come back to the surface again at this point for him where the horror created by his denial has become too great to bear, so that even the truth, which is that you can't put back together a life that has been destroyed, is better than this nightmarish fantasy.

Another possibility is that she told him "We live inside a dream.", again this would be something that he subsequently suppressed, although in this case it comes back to the surface for Cooper at the moment of greatest bliss when the nagging feeling becomes too great about things going too well to be true. It wasn't enough to wake him up, though. The journey continued into the other direction and the dream veered into a nightmare, the end of which did finally wake him up.
Last edited by Perception de Ambiguity on September 6th, 2017, 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#128

Post by Carmel1379 » September 6th, 2017, 10:51 pm

I like your idea that perhaps Diane is somehow jealous of Laura, after all Cooper left Diane to explore the death of a girl in Twin Peaks he had been connected to through dreams, only leaving Diane with some meagre tape records. And when Cooper remains trapped in the Black Lodge while his Evil doppelgänger roams the Earth, Diane is shocked. Evil Cooper visits and rapes her one night, and consequently changed her, disturbed her, scarred her eyes - she's gone away (NIИ), and what's left of her is a manufactured carcass that allows Cooper to manufacture other members of her family for his own safety. The scarred Diane can sense Evil Cooper when he arrives to the sheriff station in Part 17. The real Diane can only come back when Good ("the one and only") Cooper saves her by destroying the nemesis, and by touching her, however now that the two are reunited, he quickly leaves her for Laura in the Black Lodge. And when he comes back and meets her, when they're finally sure each is really "themselves", they go somewhere far away, without any clear goal in mind, only knowing that it's going to be different "out there". She isn't satisfied in the motel (because at some point she sees herself in the distance - depersonalisation, fear? or maybe just poor sex in which she can't look at Coop's face), so she ditches him, calling herself "Linda" (a combination of the names "Laura" and "Diane" perhaps?), and him "Richard", because calling him Cooper might've been too much of an emotional weight to bear and overcome (so she imagines different personas, we've all seen this before in Lynch's work). So Cooper then pursues Laura on his own, because that's what he does, he's the good guy that propels the story, to remedy being left by his lover he must do the right thing, at least try to, what else would the audiences watch him do? But just like in Part 17, in the end he's eventually perturbed, hearing screams.

Agreed about Cooper's obsession with Laura who simply wants to be left alone. He sounds so conceit, so self-assured about it, in his manner of talking to her, with his quest to bring her back home, yet he (nor the audience) has never truly considered if that girl who's been through so much wants to go on as well. Carrie Page of course does not live a happy idyllic life, she in a lot of trouble of her own, belonging to stories set far away, that will never be filmed ("Odessa, I tried to keep a clean house, keep everything organised."). When she sees Cooper she acknowledges herself that she'd normally slam the door in his face, and only agrees to go with him because she needs to escape Odessa in any case, coincidentally. And we know what happens when she returns to Twin Peaks and finally "awakens". Thus the show signals its conclusion.


Some other random bits:

-In Part 14 when Andy is sucked into the Black Lodge to perceive parts of the future, he sees the electric pole with the number 6 on it, the one standing in front of Carrie Page's house that Cooper so keenly looks at and possibly recognises. Did the Black Lodge plan Cooper's search for Laura in Odessa too? When the Giant/Fireman and the Lady in the Castle by the Sea send out Laura in a golden sphere out into the world as a response to the atomic bomb testing in Part 8, do they know doubles of her will inhabit parallel universes?
Edit: The electric pole with the number 6 is also visible in "the Missing Pieces", just before a sequence with a meeting above the Convenience Store. It probably also appeared in other places across 'Fire Walk With Me' (like the Fat Trout Trailer Park). There's a string of numbers above the 6 that do, however, differ; so this again is simply either a coincidental or uncanny congruence between two separate places.

-Cooper is capable of conducting most of the supporting characters and knowledgeable of their possessions and abilities. Major Briggs apparently supplied Cooper with most of that information. "Your father was well aware of what's going on here." Supernatural foresight, destiny, director's control.

-The (small) golden sphere Cooper emerges from thanks to electricity and MIKE at the beginning of Part 18 was probably the one given by Cooper to MIKE in the hospital in Part 16. But it's a cartoonish Cooper, one that would be returned to Janey-E and Sonny Jim, to home. Cooper promised he'd return to them, but since he would rather go on with Diane and/or Laura, his the ingenious plan was to double himself...

-"Your mother's name is Sarah."
-"Sa-sarah?"
-"Yes, Sarah."
-"What's going on?"
The name Sarah seems to trigger something in Carrie, perhaps she recognises it, a little. She closes her eyes and feels a little dismayed.

-Is someone following Carrie and Cooper? Who is it? Who exists in those cars that pass by and drive behind them? Is it the audience's gaze? Does the answer even matter?

-Both 17 and 18 end with Laura screaming, the difference being that in the former we also hear the flapping like in Part 2 when after she kisses Cooper she shakily rises to the air. non-exist-ent! she's gone away (NIИ)! No, Coop can't allow that, he must find her. But the second time she screams, it's the end.
Last edited by Carmel1379 on September 8th, 2017, 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
IMDb, letterboxd
Image
whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?


Well here he is skidded out onto the Zone like a planchette on a Ouija board, and what shows up inside the empty circle in his brain might string together into a message, might not, he'll just have to see.

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
t o B e c o n t i n u e d

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#129

Post by Carmel1379 » September 7th, 2017, 1:49 pm

Just found this on tumblr:

Image

The card on the right is held by Evil Cooper, and it's the thing he's looking for. On the left is of course the classic owl/Black Lodge symbol that Phillip Jeffries transforms into an 8 with implications of ∞. The middle pylon is the place Cooper and Diane enter into another dimension (this is a new connection for me).

This makes me think that perhaps Evil Cooper's plan was to (also) find Laura, hunt her down again and again within parallel universes (in the Black Lodge he would've been stopped, because Laura is safe there with her angels). Good Cooper wanted to save, secure and bring her home once again, but the ending shows that the two Cooper's intentions generate the same outcome, the eternal recurrence of pain (countering the Log Lady's thought that "one day the suffering will end.").
IMDb, letterboxd
Image
whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?


Well here he is skidded out onto the Zone like a planchette on a Ouija board, and what shows up inside the empty circle in his brain might string together into a message, might not, he'll just have to see.

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
t o B e c o n t i n u e d

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#130

Post by RedHawk10 » September 8th, 2017, 2:15 am

^ Very interesting. I'm still trying to piece out what I think Cooper's doppelganger was trying to do.

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#131

Post by Perception de Ambiguity » September 8th, 2017, 4:29 pm

Carmel1379 on Sep 6 2017, 04:51:01 PM wrote:I like your idea that perhaps Diane is somehow jealous of Laura, after all Cooper left Diane to explore the death of a girl in Twin Peaks he had been connected to through dreams, only leaving Diane with some meagre tape records. And when Cooper remains trapped in the Black Lodge while his Evil doppelgänger roams the Earth, Diane is shocked. Evil Cooper visits and rapes her one night, and consequently changed her, disturbed her, scarred her eyes - she's gone away (NIИ), and what's left of her is a manufactured carcass that allows Cooper to manufacture other members of her family for his own safety. The scarred Diane can sense Evil Cooper when he arrives to the sheriff station in Part 17. The real Diane can only come back when Good ("the one and only") Cooper saves her by destroying the nemesis, and by touching her, however now that the two are reunited, he quickly leaves her for Laura in the Black Lodge. And when he comes back and meets her, when they're finally sure each is really "themselves", they go somewhere far away, without any clear goal in mind, only knowing that it's going to be different "out there". She isn't satisfied in the motel (because at some point she sees herself in the distance - depersonalisation, fear? or maybe just poor sex in which she can't look at Coop's face), so she ditches him, calling herself "Linda" (a combination of the names "Laura" and "Diane" perhaps?), and him "Richard", because calling him Cooper might've been too much of an emotional weight to bear and overcome (so she imagines different personas, we've all seen this before in Lynch's work). So Cooper then pursues Laura on his own, because that's what he does, he's the good guy that propels the story, to remedy being left by his lover he must do the right thing, at least try to, what else would the audiences watch him do? But just like in Part 17, in the end he's eventually perturbed, hearing screams.

Agreed about Cooper's obsession with Laura who simply wants to be left alone. He sounds so conceit, so self-assured about it, in his manner of talking to her, with his quest to bring her back home, yet he (nor the audience) has never truly considered if that girl who's been through so much wants to go on as well. Carrie Page of course does not live a happy idyllic life, she in a lot of trouble of her own, belonging to stories set far away, that will never be filmed ("Odessa, I tried to keep a clean house, keep everything organised."). When she sees Cooper she acknowledges herself that she'd normally slam the door in his face, and only agrees to go with him because she needs to escape Odessa in any case, coincidentally. And we know what happens when she returns to Twin Peaks and finally "awakens". Thus the show signals its conclusion.


Some other random bits:

-In Part 14 when Andy is sucked into the Black Lodge to perceive parts of the future, he sees the electric pole with the number 6 on it, the one standing in front of Carrie Page's house that Cooper so keenly looks at and possibly recognises. Did the Black Lodge plan Cooper's search for Laura in Odessa too? When the Giant/Fireman and the Lady in the Castle by the Sea send out Laura in a golden sphere out into the world as a response to the atomic bomb testing in Part 8, do they know doubles of her will inhabit parallel universes?
Edit: The electric pole with the number 6 is also visible in "The Missing Pieces", just before a sequence with a meeting above the Convenience Store. It probably also appeared in other places across 'Fire Walk With Me' (like the Fat Trout Trailer Park). There's a string of numbers above the 6 that do, however, differ; so this again is simply either a coincidental or uncanny congruence between two separate places.

-Cooper is capable of conducting most of the supporting characters and knowledgeable of their possessions and abilities. Major Briggs apparently supplied Cooper with most of that information. "Your father was well aware of what's going on here." Supernatural foresight, destiny, director's control.

-The (small) golden sphere Cooper emerges from thanks to electricity and MIKE at the beginning of Part 18 was probably the one given by Cooper to MIKE in the hospital in Part 16. But it's a cartoonish Cooper, one that would be returned to Janey-E and Sonny Jim, to home. Cooper promised he'd return to them, but since he would rather go on with Diane and/or Laura, his the ingenious plan was to double himself...

-"Your mother's name is Sarah."
-"Sa-sarah?"
-"Yes, Sarah."
-"What's going on?"
The name Sarah seems to trigger something in Carrie, perhaps she recognises it, a little. She closes her eyes and feels a little dismayed.

-Is someone following Carrie and Cooper? Who is it? Who exists in those cars that pass by and drive behind them? Is it the audience's gaze? Does the answer even matter?

-Both 17 and 18 end with Laura screaming, the difference being that in the former we also hear the flapping like in Part 2 when after she kisses Cooper she shakily rises to the air. non-exist-ent! she's gone away (NIИ)! No, Coop can't allow that, he must find her. But the second time she screams, it's the end.
I didn't think of Diane being exactly jealous of Laura, rather that Cooper is consumed with the Laura case to the point where he is not only lost to Diane but to the world. It might even really have gotten so bad one night that he "wasn't himself" anymore and raped her, like the stories of Lynch about how he struggled with anger issues (and usually his wife was the one who got to feel the consequences) before he began practicing meditation and after a week all that anger was gone.

But yeah, in a way he lost her to that other girl when he went off to start the case. You can kind of piece together their backstory, certainly Cooper seemed to have a thing for her. Diane saying that they kissed before once (before the rape) I feel is something that really happened. So I think Diane had romantic feelings for him too. Needless to say that this doesn't mean that Diane was ready to get down and dirty with him, but Cooper apparently saw it differently and got impatient.

The superimposed closeup is triggered when he sees Naido, so that is the immediate thing that caused his out-of-body-experience and that got him thinking. The sight of Naido, you could conclude, makes him think of when he encountered her in another realm of existence (the "purple sea“) in Part 3, or it goes back further and he is reminded of Diane, I reckon whatever we see going on between Cooper and Naido in Part 3 in some ways mirrors what really happened between them. Consequentally Naido turns into Diane and within the context of the situation it makes sense that they would fully embrace each other and shamelessly make out in front of everyone (since even though Diane remembers the rape she is convinced that Cooper wasn’t himself at all when he did that, so she is prepared to continue the relationship where it left off before that).

-Andy’s Fireman vision: The #6 pole flashes three times in the vision. 666. And it appears in completely different locations throughout the "Twin Peaks" universe, I didn’t keep track of them, but that damn pole seems to be everywhere, possibly in three different locations, or maybe in four, with Odessa being the fourth. Well, the Fireman for me is in some way representative of the storyteller. I wouldn't want to say that he orchestrated or controlled everything because that would limit it too much, but maybe you could say he is a guide for the dreamer who knows certain things about it long before the dreamer himself does, kind of like an Oracle. But yes, I think he foresaw what would happen even in Odessa and knew about it from the beginning. Andy’s vision shows him a lot more than he really needs to know, and the images are in chronological order in accordance with how they are seen in the show, with the pole(s) being the final images.

-The Major Briggs situation is an interesting thing to think about. Cole was the last person to talk to Briggs before his death and he apparently had visions of the future and told him all the stuff that he thought would happen. And we for example knew that Briggs was convinced that Bobby will be fine. All this conceivably could have fed into Cooper’s fantasy future reality of Twin Peaks. And yes, it’s also something that already dictated a certain direction for this season that Frost/Lynch had to deal with in some way.

-I think that’s certainly the original Dougie (whatever that means) who returns home, even if he maintains Cooper’s haircut and the suit. His profound homecoming speech ("Home!“) tells the whole story, I think. What’s more interesting to me is how this reflects Cooper’s intuitive urge of going home. In "The Missing Pieces“ The Man From Another Place laughs maniacly when he tells Cooper than he can only leave the place by going home (see my tumblr), impaired Dougie often has the urge to go home without much of an idea where home is let alone how to get there, Cooper reaches out his hand to save Laura by saying to her that he will take her home, and finally in Part 18 of course it’s all about bringing Laura home. (I’m sure there are several other instances of this throughout the series as a whole.) With Dougie he could already play out that homecoming, but like I said, unlike Laura he was able to go home, because Dougie never died.
This homecoming urge, I think, originally comes from wanting to "wake up“, but subsequently become subverted into all those other homecoming scenarios to the point where it becomes an urge to return Laura home, the very line of thinking that he is meant to get away from.

- No idea what the name Sarah might trigger for Carrie Page. Could be a lot of things, could be that this coincidentally was Carrie Page‘s mother's name, too. Could be an old lesbian flame who is always in trouble with the law and needs her help, so she sends this guy who as a cover story just pretends to be an FBI agent bringing back a woman to her mother, but Carrie Page knows what's really up when he drops the name Sarah. But that’s overthinking it. Could be that if Cooper is dreaming all this up anything that will move the plot along will do. Who knows anybody anyway, right? It’s certainly a bit that potentially evokes the idea that Laura could be the dreamer, just like the final moments of Part 18 do. And just like "What year is this?" is backed up by how Lynch avoids showing any indicators that would place the final section in the now. It could be the present, or it could be years in the past, or even in the future. I think Lynch knows the answer but he embraces any chance that presents itself to open up the possibilities and to let the viewers come to their own conclusions.
Last edited by Perception de Ambiguity on September 8th, 2017, 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#132

Post by Perception de Ambiguity » September 8th, 2017, 4:30 pm

I find it very telling that the pieces of information that eventually lead to the events of the finale and are relevant in the end largely is information given in the earliest episodes. All the Black Lodge messages: "430", "Richard and Linda", "is it future or is it past", etc. The coordinates that lead Evil Cooper to the Black Lodge were the ones he received from Ray Monroe, which goes all the way back to early in Part 2, which is the scene that introduced us to that whole hunt for coordinates in the first place. Then of course there is all the Judy information that Cole had all along, and really, if you think about it then the Fireman probably could have dumped Evil Cooper at the Twin Peaks sheriff's station anytime he wanted to, given that he could even reach a kid in England and bring him to Twin Peaks.

Each subsequent episode moves the story further away from all the issues and questions that we recognize by the end were of relevance, but on ours and Cooper's journey we get the opposite impression, which was that it kept getting closer and closer to what matters. We thought, for example, that Cooper waking up was a question of Cooper successfully and fully taking over the body of Dougie (who was "manufactured for a purpose" - quote: Part 3) when really this meant that Cooper only falls even deeper into the dream.
It's like Cooper has to go back to zero, forgetting all that stuff that he got caught up in and got more and more invested in to the point that it seemed like the only true hard reality. He literally didn't see the forest for the trees anymore...or as in his case just one tree.

This again could be read as the creators also making a commentary on their own creative process of making it, fearing that they could lose their way. Because clearly they spent some time hearing and reading all the fan theories that went around after the original TP and FWWM, and even if they are too smart and independent-minded to fall into the trap of playing it save and repeating themselves in the name of fan-service, they totally used those ideas, paid them off, subverted them, and just had a lot of fun playing with all those expectations. This however posed the threat of getting too caught up in all that very much in the same way as the audience, turning the series into something that they didn't intend it to be when they started out, when eventually they wouldn’t really do anything of substance anymore with the continuation of TP, but only deal with this feedback loop. Dougie-Cooper, you might say, wakes up from his coma to be "100 percent" when the audience of the show finally starts to put the pieces together and make sense of its inner logic, when they can kind of see where it is going and what the characters need to do, which means that by this time the audience has not only caught up with its creators, but the show has become pure escapism.
So the makers have to go back to the start to remind themselves what the project was supposed to be about when they originally started it. Appropriately Agent Cooper isn't only the show's quasi representative for the audience, but as Kyle MacLachlan often said, he modeled the character after Lynch, so Cooper could also be seen as a stand-in for him.

One of the major things that positions "Twin Peaks" as a collective dream and certainly what makes a reading of any character being the dreamer too simplistic is that instead of being shown the repercussions of saving Laura from a perspective that would make sense for Cooper, Laura, or any other character, it's shown from the perspective that most makes sense from the point of view of the audience, which is replaying the pilot from the beginning exactly as it was, with the one change that was made to the narrative gradually altering the events in the pilot. At the very least the show's creators would have to be the dreamers, but this particular part wouldn't quite make sense from that standpoint either, I’m sure Frost/Lynch don’t wish that they instead had made a series that starts with a guy announcing that he goes fishing, show him walk to the river, and then show him fish.

TL;DR: Bottom line is that Cooper’s journey in this season mirrors the audience’s, as well as the creators‘ worries and the potential dangers of turning 'Twin Peaks' into something which they never wanted it to be, though to a degree they embraced them because it gave them a guideline for how to structure the narrative of "The Return", which only fully returns to the relevant issue at the end, but by distracting from it for so long it makes the message all the more powerful, which is to not dwell on the past but to look forward. "The past dictates the future", not the other way around. As hard as it may sound, whatever circumstances are given to you, you have to make the best of them. Be an Ed and Norma and embrace the time you have left, don't mourn all the time you feel you lost. It’s a matter of dealing with the issues, not of finding answers that solve things once and for all. Because answers are just words, it's dealing with the questions and issues as they come that counts, and to never stop doing so, or in other words: Be in the moment, live in the now.
Last edited by Perception de Ambiguity on September 9th, 2017, 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#133

Post by Carmel1379 » September 8th, 2017, 10:43 pm

Perception de Ambiguity on Sep 8 2017, 10:29:25 AM wrote:I didn't think of Diane being exactly jealous of Laura, rather that Cooper is consumed with the Laura case to the point where he is not only lost to Diane but to the world.
(...)
And just like "What year is this?" is backed up by how Lynch avoids showing any indicators that would place the final section in the now. It could be the present, or it could be years in the past, or even in the future. I think Lynch knows the answer but he embraces any chance that presents itself to open up the possibilities and to let the viewers come to their own conclusions.
It's understandable that Diane never having been present during the old series (and me for instance initially thinking that she was a mere imaginary friend of Cooper's, one of his quirks that help him get through the day and organise his thoughts), gets a fairly dramatic depiction in The Return, that she would be "born out of a curse", be manufactured to antagonise the FBI with her "fuck you"s and supply information to Evil Cooper. Her character backstory and arc throughout the season were purposefully enigmatic, so it's particularly difficult to grasp why she leaves Coop in the last episode, and why it's so convenient to apply an alternate personality / parallel universe plot manoeuvre with her character.

I didn't expect that Naido would turn into Diane, but it makes perfect sense considering the rape, how that left her with scars such that she'd be lost like Cooper for 25 years in the Black Lodge. But their encounter in the room next to the Purple Sea was particularly cryptic, Coop certainly didn't seem to recognise her then, and we wouldn't be able to guess if she did, in her extremely amputated and erratic state. In a certain sense she sacrifices herself for him at that moment, because by pulling the lever on the top of the Room she lets the electricity run through the socket such that Coop may return, but it also flings her out into immense space to be left in a forest, naked, for extended(?) days*. Again, this seems like a thing orchestrated by the Fireman, considering how later he makes Andy believe she's very important. It's still strange that when Coop asks the "Real" Diane if she "remembers everything", she responds yes (seems like another purposeful-convenience element to heighten the 180 turn).

*The obscure running of time is a highly distinctive feature of the series, not just (obviously) in the Black Lodge scenes, but also in the "real-life" intersecting towns there's a fairly dream-like and even inconsistent feel. (I believe it has been mentioned on this thread before about Audrey's arc.) And to talk about Diane in particular, when the Twin Peaks agents go out to Jack Rabbit's Palace, the vortex opens at exactly 2:53 pm, the same time Coop passes through the socket to become Dougie. (And again when Coop becomes himself, 2+5+3 = 10, "the divine number of perfection".) It almost seems impossible that those two events would happen at the same time (Part 3 in the Black Lodge with Part 14 in Twin Peaks), but it's damn interesting to think about. This feeling is of course related to the timelessness of certain sequences, or the uncertainty what exact time it is, the blending of future and past; what you mentioned. "What year is this?" was one of the most electrifying lines in the series for me.

The Fireman = the storyteller is the most plausible association from a metafictional perspective, not only does her transmit information to characters that's vital for the future, but we also see him float next to the cinema screen twice, and his name has been credited as "???????" for the most part.

Yeah, I don't like to think about him as a sort of "God" that orchestrates everything either. All those Black Lodge characters - MIKE, the Arm, etc. - seem to be a very sloppy bunch: like, the best thing they can do is incarnate an old man who doesn't notice someone is bleeding to death on the floor, and so on. They only transmit information in riddles or abstract lines. This idea that the "supernatural" world is imperfect, ambiguous and erratic is an important one, Lynch already personified this by the one-armed man pulling a lever at the start of 'Eraserhead'.

But apart from that, there's of course this whole theme of teleology, destiny, prophecy, determinism, chance, contingency, will, desire, director's control, etc. - What eventually advances every character to the place they are in the end? A mixture of all? And all of that becomes tenfold more complicated when we're dealing with nonlinearity, alternate universes and doubles.

In the end all we're left with is mystery and darkness that have to be dealt with intuitively. Major Briggs' situation almost cannot be treated analytically, and he's always mentioned, never directly acting. His role in the Return reminds me of that of the Fireman, the difference being that he somehow conveniently discovered all that information beforehand, that the Fireman already was allegedly familiar with. The two also don't look too dissimilar, and the Fireman used Briggs to activate the whole South Dakota chapter of the story.

The only character that seemed to lack the homecoming will, that was constantly on the move, always a nomad, was Evil Cooper (and his servant assassins). Bob is like a child that doesn't want to be confined within the Black Lodge, desiring to roam other realities.
Last edited by Carmel1379 on September 8th, 2017, 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
IMDb, letterboxd
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whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?


Well here he is skidded out onto the Zone like a planchette on a Ouija board, and what shows up inside the empty circle in his brain might string together into a message, might not, he'll just have to see.

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
t o B e c o n t i n u e d

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#134

Post by Carmel1379 » September 9th, 2017, 12:06 am

Perception de Ambiguity on Sep 8 2017, 10:30:00 AM wrote:I find it very telling that the pieces of information that eventually lead to the events of the finale and are relevant in the end largely is information given in the earliest episodes.
(...)
Because answers are just words, it's dealing with the questions and issues as they come that counts, and to never stop doing so, or in other words: Be in the moment, live in the now.
That's why I rewatched the first 3 episodes before the finale, I had that feeling that a lot of information was transmitted then that wasn't really used, repeated or mirrored anywhere else throughout, in particular because Coop was still "himself" in the Black Lodge, and not Dougie. It's certainly a means to hold onto a thread of coherence and make fans revisit the series again, while providing a gaping middle section in the way you described it.

Dougie is certainly an interesting character for which it's worth following the audience's response. With Truman out of the picture (another real-life arbitrary event drastically affecting the plot), Cooper is left stranded, alone, so the creators decide to make the beloved character disabled, rediscovering his old Twin Peaks-y persona step-by-step (and in this way parodying all that is Twin Peaks-y). The audience probably initially found Dougie funny and likeable, but hoping for real Coop to snap back (circa episode 4-5), but when that didn't happen they get accustomed to him (and many other distinctive features of the series, such as the roadhouse endings), until convergent waves place the distinct settings tighter and tighter such that anticipation rises, until the big "pure escapism" come-back occurs and still manages to surprise, delight and leave people hyperventilating.

[OT from your post - I understood the "manufactured for a purpose" line as referring to the Dougie that we got to see for about 30 seconds, the fatter adulterous criminal. He was placed there by Evil Cooper, such that when Evil Cooper was supposed to be sucked into the Black Lodge again and be replaced by Good Cooper, instead of him, his vacuous puppet wearing a ring is. (The Arm's doppelgänger must have something to do with this too.) Mike seems surprised when a daft persona appears on a couch in front of him and consequently implodes into a golden sphere, the carrier of people. Whether that's the narrative explanation of Good Coop's ineptness for so long (both Good and Bad Coop co-existing in one reality), or whether it was because of the electrical socket ride, I'm uncertain of. In any case, both Janey-E and Sonny Jim are better off with lethargic Coop, for sure.]

The necessity of knowing a discrete, designated end-date, end-episode partly explains the things you're talking about, how in the end, after episodes of frolic, fragments and moments Cooper is back "100%", his mind fully-operational, equipped with all the relevant information and goals, the show must tie itself up, procure an ending that won't disappoint and repurpose the elements that were introduced in the initial episodes to produce a semi-sensible circle. There exists the hope that meanderings and individual moments will integrate, prove their relevance and tie-up. Hence Lynch/Frost select a subset of those ideas, imbue them with little oriented steps and reconfigure them to gather in a single setting, a magic circle, where a desired over-the-top culmination can occur. Stupid writers would end the story at this point, but Lynch/Frost working with such an extensive mythology and fan-base allow themselves to subvert that last moment, and to not only return to the original series but also provide an enormous chasm that will function as a metafictional self-reflection, for both the themselves and the audiences, on the entire long-winded journey that both have traversed, because its world that now suddenly returned after 25 years, is transpired by both the hopes of the audiences and creators, dreams of characters returning, and ideas fulfilled which didn't find their place elsewhere. "The Return" is of course just as much the product of fan expectations and speculations throughout the years, as it is Lynch & Frost's desire to return to that marvellous universe. So the way to develop that limited series in a mysterious way and end it in a self-reflective one, is quite a challenge, and one where they perfectly succeeded.

If there's any message to be taken out of this it's the one you beautifully wrote down in your tldr; agreed.
Last edited by Carmel1379 on September 9th, 2017, 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
IMDb, letterboxd
Image
whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?


Well here he is skidded out onto the Zone like a planchette on a Ouija board, and what shows up inside the empty circle in his brain might string together into a message, might not, he'll just have to see.

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
t o B e c o n t i n u e d

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#135

Post by Carmel1379 » September 9th, 2017, 10:34 am

The consciousness of appearance.—How wonderful and new and yet how gruesome and ironic I find my position vis-à-vis the whole of existence in the light of my insight! I have discovered for myself that the human and animal past, indeed the whole primal age and past of all sentient being continues in me to invent, to love, to hate, and to infer. I suddenly woke up in the midst of this dream, but only to the consciousness that I am dreaming and that I must go on dreaming lest I perish—as a somnambulist must go on dreaming lest he fall. What is "appearance" for me now? Certainly not the opposite of some essence; what could I say about any essence except to name the attributes of its appearance! Certainly not a dead mask that one could place on an unknown x or remove from it!
Appearance is for me that which lives and is effective and goes so far in its self-mockery that it makes me feel that this is appearance and will-o'-the-wisp and a dance of spirits and nothing more—that among all these dreamers, I, too, who "know," am dancing my dance; that the knower is a means for prolonging the earthly dance and thus belongs to the masters of ceremony of existence; and that the sublime consistency and interrelatedness of all knowledge perhaps is and will be the highest means to preserve the universality of dreaming and the mutual comprehension of all dreamers and thus also the continuation of the dream. - N. [bold emphasis mine]
IMDb, letterboxd
Image
whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?


Well here he is skidded out onto the Zone like a planchette on a Ouija board, and what shows up inside the empty circle in his brain might string together into a message, might not, he'll just have to see.

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
t o B e c o n t i n u e d

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#136

Post by Perception de Ambiguity » September 10th, 2017, 7:44 pm

>The only character that seemed to lack the homecoming will, that was constantly on the move, always a nomad, was Evil Cooper (and his servant assassins). Bob is like a child that doesn't want to be confined within the Black Lodge, desiring to roam other realities.<

Killer BOB you could say always was about denial. He was a person to pin the sexual abuse and the murders on, initially just for Leland, I guess, but somehow the whole Palmer family bought into it, and so did eventually even the investigators who afterwards dealt with the case surrounding Leland's crimes, or, well, Cooper certainly did, I'm not sure that any other (non-Lodge character) actually ever bought into BOB. He is like a mass hallucination, if there is a real case of a "tulpa" here then I think it would have to be BOB. So in "The Return" the BOB-side of Cooper just wants Cooper ("Good Cooper") to fall deeper into the dream(/fantasy/halucination/whatever). This Mr. C fights against going back to the Black Lodge because it would mean that Cooper gets closer to "waking up"/becoming aware/whatever.
Original Dougie, as you said, was "manufactured for a purpose" and he has "fulfilled his purpose" because Cooper, against his will, is forced to take over this character (remember the scene were the Lodge floor opens up and swallows him and he falls through space, accompanied by The Arm saying "Non-exist-ent!"), with the far-fetched explanation that Cooper was Dougie all along and that he just worked undercover for the FBI as Dougie for 25 years (despite the FBI having no idea about it). He resists to fully believe in that reality and to take over that character, though, and all the things that catch his attention within that reality are actually meant to be reminders for him of the real world/the original Twin Peaks and Cooper's real present situation.

There also appear many allusions to the Lodge, to which Dougie-Cooper is always drawn, like the symbol over the winning slot machines, making him buy the pie that saves his life, the red door to his home. All these things are made to bring him luck, probably in an attempt to make him want to live in this reality and to distract him from what those Lodge signifiers actually try to tell him. Not to mention all the other things that tell him he will find luck in this reality, working at Lucky 7 as an insurance agent (he is fully insured against any harm coming to him) and getting into business with owners of a Casino that has a horseshoe for a symbol , not to mention the fact that everything always turns out great for him without having anything to do for it. He initially also enters Dougie in a house in Rancho Rosa (the name of the show's production company) on Sycamore Road (Glastonbury Grove/the entry to the Black Lodge is surrounded by Sycamore trees). This Rancho Rosa reality seems to start out a bit backwards, at least what that junkie mother character is concerned. She calls for "119" right before some gangsters plant a bomb on Dougie's car on the other side of the street. That car only explodes in the next episode. "119" of course is "911" backwards. Maybe she's an "above the Convenience Store" creature that got sucked into that reality. But there is also this about 119: http://gabirol.tumblr.com/post/16271400 ... g-into-the

I have just been reminded of Dougie-Cooper apprehending hitman Spike. I think maybe Cooper always wanted to choke that Man From Another Place son of a bitch in the Black Lodge for having so much control over him and even playing with him and making fun of him. So when he saw Spike maybe he was reminded of "The Arm" and this time found himself able to actually act out this urge of giving that little fucker a good beating, hehe.


>But their encounter in the room next to the Purple Sea was particularly cryptic<

Well, here is some of my reading of that section since I just rewatched that episode today. It's placed in between his disappearance into the Black Lodge floor and him entering Dougie, so I think that's of significance. He lands on the balcony and then enters through the window, which could be how he came into her house on the night of the rape. Naido does that touching face thing on Cooper, like Diane did in Part 18's sex scene, which I had totally forgotten about. The door knocks violently and Naido signals him to be quiet. The one outside the door I think could represent the Cooper of that unpleasant night. Cooper sees the #15 socket and is drawn to it which I think is because the number of the Palmer house is 708; 7+0+8=15. Naido stops him, signaling him that it means his death. They walk up to "Die Glocke" and pulls the switch to turn the socket into a #3 socket. So the Diane doppelgänger sacrifices herself in an attempt to save Cooper. Cooper is very much involuntarily pulled into the #3 socket and enters Dougie in this episode, which is Part 3. Cooper fully wakes up within Dougie in Part 15...


I feel Diane left Cooper in the last episode because she realized through his apathy that he still was obsessed with Laura. I guess she gave up on him. As for (the other) Diane apparently supplying Mr. C with information, I think perhaps that was also her trying to help Cooper. I'm not sure yet what Mr. C's plan was exactly, if he had one, so I couldn't say. Destroying that reality I think could only help Cooper to wake up. But let's not forgot that Naido, who was found at Glastonbury Grove, is the Doppel-Diane to Cooper's Doppel-Cooper. Naido seemed to want to try Cooper but was very much unable to do so, being blind, naked in a forest, and with nobody understanding a word she was saying. I guess this would make the "fuck you" version of Diane the malevolent but ultimately harmless (because incompetent) double.

>That's why I rewatched the first 3 episodes before the finale, I had that feeling that a lot of information was transmitted then that wasn't really used, repeated or mirrored anywhere else throughout, in particular because Coop was still "himself" in the Black Lodge, and not Dougie.<

Some good instinct you had there. I didn't really have that insight that the first three episodes would be of primary importance until after I saw the ending. And I noticed that while there are some scenes within Twin Peaks with the familiar characters in the first three episodes, they are very sparse. And those are scenes that are often more directly connected to Laura and especially to finding Cooper. "Is it about the bunny?" > Jack Rabbit's Palace > Odessa, TX (home of the world's largest jack rabbit)

Good point about the new introductions to TP gradually winning over the old fans to the point that they started missing them once they were gone (like brain-dead Dougie) even though they seemed like obstacles to the "proper" TP at first, which I think also was a deliberate strategy to drive home the point about nostalgia/repeating the old stuff that "The Return" in part was about. In this case it viscerally demonstrated how nostalgia for particular things isn't something one ought to get stuck on, nostalgia can be reshaped any time, so you can even get your dose of comforting nostalgia while living in a relatively immediate present, which is the more desirable kind of nostalgia. And on a similar note, as was pointed out in some "think piece" I read, "The Return" shows many of the beloved 'Twin Peaks' characters with the same attitudes/jobs as we were used to seeing them, but Lynch denies the audience the nostalgic good feelings that normally would come with this by bringing a sad reality to seeing those characters be stuck in the same situation for a quarter of a century.
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#137

Post by Carmel1379 » September 10th, 2017, 9:53 pm

BOB was definitely primarily narratively connected to the Palmer family, it was only somewhere in the middle of Season 1 that we got to see him related to MIKE and the supernatural world. Sarah recurrently hallucinates him, Leland remembers BOB was a creepy neighbour of his back when he was a kid who played with matches, and for Laura he was of course a personification of the most disturbing haunting evil she'd only dare to mention in her secret diary. If we're going by natural explanations, I suppose BOB was the scary subject of Leland's bedtime stories to Laura (that Sarah overheard), and when finally Leland begins harassing his daughter she projects the BOB image as her daily perpetrator, that also dwindles in Sarah's subconscious and reveals himself to her when Laura is murdered. Denial/hallucination is crucial, as you said. And especially considered in the light of 'Fire Walk With Me', all the ideas about him being an actual evil spirit incarnate fighting against MIKE come secondary. But BOB now inhabits Mr. C, so it'd be interesting to consider that fact with respect to the original Palmer family explanation, it makes one think about the relationship of Laura and Coop and the ending of the show.

We've all been accustomed to view Coop as "pure goodness", so the interesting thing that The Return does is to combine him with BOB, evoking a cognitive dissonance and painful amazement in all the old friends Mr. C meets - Cole, Albert and Diane in the prison cell scene most prominently, where Mr. C makes that hilarious awkward thumbs up. "Something is very wrong. Albert, I hate to admit this, but I don't understand this situation at all." This is partly replicated in Part 17 when Mr. C arrives at the Twin Peaks Sheriff Station (What? Cooper refuses coffee?).

Does the denial/hallucination context carry over to Mr. C? Perhaps for Diane - if we consider for a moment that the "real / nice" Cooper raped Diane, it would make sense for her to mentally split him and herself in half - for Cooper create an evil persona & a good "lost" persona, for herself someone turned antagonistic against everything and everyone ("fuck you"), as well as a lost blind scarred soul. Supposing hence that Twin Peaks is Diane's dream where the two lost good personas find each other again is thus reasonable. But I also suppose that even when Mr. C's defeated and Cooper claims he's "completely himself" again, there might be a thread of doubt clinging unto Diane (and also Laura, the viewers and Coop himself) - no one emerges out of events and painful experiences newborn, "the past dictates the future". For example the Judy diner scene has Coop shooting a man in the leg, kicking another in the balls and extorting an address - those are more Mr. C type behaviours. Diane has premonitions about all this and thus she ditches him.

But apart from that little theory, I wouldn't say the denial/hallucination context carries over - Mr. C's always a character hanging out in the shadows and moving, interacting and hurting other criminals, wanting to actualise himself more (and not remain in the collective unconscious), fighting for his own survival and desiring Good Coop annihilated, as you said.


119 - Interesting, good find. The qabbalistic program I'm using has a different letter-number function (A = 10, not A = 1), so the numbers didn't add up to 119, a shame, otherwise I probably would've made the connection myself.

But what selected coincidences and associations the machine did produce were:

Twin Peaks = Book of Lies = Chaotic Good = Felix Culpa = Go Proverb = Microsoft = Small Wars = Spartacus

Laura Palmer = Anonymity = Chaos Reigns = Cosmic Level = Dread Walking = Knives Out = Set Stones = Thin Silence

Dale Cooper = Algorithm = Cash Money = Chaos Patch = Chessboard = David Bowie = Dice Living = Dissident = Eradicator = Eye of Death = Hexadecimal = Magnitude 9.0 = Merciless = Time is Up = Violator = Will of God


Rabbits! Nice, thanks for pointing that down-the-rabbit-hole trajectory out, now I feel stupid.

Speaking of nostalgia, apart from the opening credits, the original Twin Peaks music was also rarely used, very strategically placed throughout the season (e.g. "Laura Palmer's theme" when Bobby sees the photograph, "Audrey's Dance" when... Audrey dances (duh)).

The overall style of The Return definitely differs significantly from Twin Peaks. The first two parts especially seemed for me like Lynch at his coldest and harshest, which I'm betting he was well aware of, by including the "Shadow" song at the end as a heightened poignant reward for the first two hours. Yeah, The Return transmutes TP into something completely different and vaster, favouring stretched out slow sequences, and more drab colours with intermittent exquisiteness over the "warm" lit soapish look of the older series. Nostalgia and introduction of fan favourites very carefully included, and often highly parodied and subverted. "25 years later" means exactly that: the changes in technology, electricity, urban development, business and politics etc., and how that affects all those older characters, is all emphasised and integrated into dialogue, plot and style.
Last edited by Carmel1379 on September 10th, 2017, 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?


Well here he is skidded out onto the Zone like a planchette on a Ouija board, and what shows up inside the empty circle in his brain might string together into a message, might not, he'll just have to see.

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
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#138

Post by funkybusiness » September 10th, 2017, 10:06 pm

The final scene of 17+18 merged:
https://i.imgur.com/ozE1bg9.gifv

Or the whole episodes side by side:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk5aBRrHZFY

thanks CC forum

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#139

Post by Kasparius » September 12th, 2017, 4:10 pm

I watched the last 5 this weekend. I was tired of the non pay-off of watching one episode at a time. I Loved it, my interpretation of the end is that Lynch wanted people to wax philosophical for another 25+ years about the meaning of it all.

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#140

Post by Perception de Ambiguity » September 12th, 2017, 8:53 pm

More stray observations and random thoughts:

-For no real reason or purpose they have several FBI agents, including his (former) boss, working on nothing else than finding a coworker who disappeared almost without a trace about 20(?) years ago, because that's just what government agencies and companies in general do, deeply caring about their employees on a human level. Sure...

Image

-Where is the dreamy place in Buckhorn where William Hastings encountered Major Briggs and we find the "dirty bearded men" and a vortex into another dimension? Why, of course it's...

Image

-Without the weird "E" in the name the letters in "Janey-E Jones" add up to 118, same as Laura Palmer. Electric Laura Palmer? Maybe that's why Cooper is temporarily more present as Dougie during their sex, and he looks super happy afterwards, he just got to have sex with Laura's alter ego.

-Gordon Cole looks like he potentially has small cameras hidden all over his body. The knob on his hearing device, and another round hole on his hearing device. The earplugs themselves, one of the badges on his jacket, and the buttons on the sleeves of his suit.

-Cooper, according to my interpretation, is imprisoned within himself. Mr. C is for a while imprisoned. In said prison we see him sitting behind a glass box, or a small room with a glass window anyway, very reminiscent of that ominous glass box. When we see the photograph of him that connects him to the ominous glass box he stands in front of it, making it look like he is inside the box. Also, I don't know if this is normal for a prison, but this whole setup reminds me more of a recording studio with Diane here sitting behind a mixing console:

Image

- "The good Dale is in the lodge and he can't leave. Write it in your diary." - My current interpretation of this scene from FWWM (the diary page later turned up in "The Return") is that Laura has a precognition about Cooper later dealing with the case of her death and him eventually wishing that he could have saved her. Forget about all that TP mythology for a second and you have to wonder WTF a "good Dale" is? For Laura (and Leland's other victims) it makes sense to regard Dale Cooper (a real human being, flaws and everything) as good. He can't come out to help her, though, because there is no way to get the FBI's agent's help before her death, and after her death he obviously can't really help her anymore either.

-Mr. C can't be killed (at least not without putting the owl ring on his ring finger) because any time he does get killed the "Woodsmen" conveniently appear out of thin air to revive him. The Woodsmen live in the Convenience Store. Mr. C is being revived at the beginning of Part 8, which subsequently goes out of its way to explain how this is supposed to make logical sense. In Part 17 the character can finally die because the show is now close to it's last episode anyway. Speaking of Woodsmen, one of them walks by when we learn about Mayor Briggs' body miraculously skipping 25 years to create a plotline that conveniently ties in with the old TP.

-Fire in TP I basically see as the creators' inspiration. The Woodmen were a convenient idea born from a relative lack of inspiration, hence that guy walks around asking for a light without ever being able to find one. However, through the power of repetition and something that gives him a platform to spread it to a wide audience (enabled by electricity) he can serve his purpose and do what Lynch aims to do with his viewers, which is to draw them into the work as if it was a dream, and to have them forget everything else around them. "This is the water, this is the well, drink full, and descend."
THIS is the water, THIS is the well; the chant itself compels us to take it all in and get lost in the dreamed up reality. For the other characters this means falling asleep, for us it means going "holy shit, Part 8 is awesome, The Return is the bee's knees, I'll die if I don't see how the series' ends..."

-Cooper-Dougie doesn't just repeat random words and phrases, but in the majority of cases it's obvious that they relate to his predicament of being "asleep" and trying to wake up. It kind of reflects the audience's process of trying to solve the mystery, clutching at every word, phrase and symbol that reminds them of anything that they associate with TP as they know it from anything that came before. Assuming that Cooper dreams it all up you could even look at it as Cooper-Dougie not so much repeating the words and phrases since it all comes from his mind anyway, rather they are subconscious things that through the other characters has now bubbled to the surface, or he has become more conscious of them than he was before anyway, his alter ego repeating them signifies this becoming more aware of them and perhaps giving them another thought.

"The horse is the white of the eyes, and dark within." The white of the eyes appears to be light, but it doesn't actually see anything. From the insight, looking out, this white is darkness. I suppose the horse symbolizes happiness or peace in TP, and equating the horse with blindness = not knowing means happiness? Another interpretation would be that "dark within" refers to closed eyes and you only start to truly see and find peace when you close your eyes and you dive within, transcending the apparent reality.

-Silver Mustang Casino - A silver mustang is a white horse.

-Part 10, Lynch (as Cole), creative as always, making a drawing in his hotel room, and having a vision of the crying Laura as he opens the door for Albert, as if the character is trying to force herself into the show, begging to be remembered. But her time hasn't come yet.

-Beginning with Part 4 the show fully loses itself in the soapy world of 'Twin Peaks'. The characters, their backstories, their relations to each other,... Within all this banality "Zen Peaks" very gradually seems to emerge. The early depictions of characteristics that I associate with Buddhist concepts seem to be mocking them, namely the characters of Wally Brando in Part 4 and Cooper-Dougie. They are dimwits. Content with themselves and their existence in the world maybe, but they appear so foolish that we might just rather prefer to be anguished than to be like them.
Part 7 marks the first time when we start to get some shots of trees, they could be perceived as mere establishing shots. It's the Part that gave us the infamous Roadhouse floor sweeping scene, and it's also the Part that introduces the seemingly sourceless humming sound in this season. This also functions as a sort of preparation for the often wordless and unusual Part 8. Continuing with Part 9 shots of trees/clouds at first are more embedded into the narrative, they serve as background to the action, they are very much there but easy to ignore. But with each Part the shots become more lingering and more difficult to pass off as background and pillow shots, they themselves become to some degree what it is about. The show in a way gets settled within its reality and learns to become Zen in it.

Image

-Speaking of Part 7's Roadhouse floor sweeping scene and preparing for/foreshadowing Part 8, there seem to be not only one, but perhaps even several b&w mushroom cloud pictures hanging on the wall, but it's difficult to say. They might just be pictures of trees, as seen at many points throughout the show.

-It's generally assumed that Part 8 is about BOB being born/coming into the world as a result of the detonation of the first atomic bomb, but I think it's actually about how BOB is a fabricated character that was Lynch's brainchild. It may look like a mushroom cloud that BOB comes out of, but it's actually Lynch's hair. tehe Lynch was born in January 1946, so he was approximately conceived in April 1945.

-Part 8's "creation sequence" that looks reminiscent of the creation of the universe in for example 'The Tree of Life' could just as well be interpreted as showing the inner processes of a brain, personally I can see firing brain synapses and bloodstreams in the imagery. It then moves to an abstract depiction of how we perceive those processes; the imagination. First just a purple sea, and then the Fireman's home emerges within that sea.

The Fireman watches previously seen footage from the episode, as if to review it, thinking "what next?". It is also sfx-heavy footage, making it like a director checking the footage that the effects team sends him to see if he is happy with the results. Then, as the Fireman floats in the air, a golden stream comes out of his head with sparks that look like stars while the screen behind him also shows stars. Those sparks gradually create a shape that looks like a vein branching out, or alternatively a tree that eventually starts to look more like a galaxy or even a mushroom cloud.

The "Laura sphere" emerges from it, with the golden "deux ex machine" taking it and pooping it into the world, or more precisely, it transplants the sphere into the screen that depicts a b&w image of Earth. The creating of BOB as an incarnation of Evil basically triggers the idea of Laura as an incarnation of Good. How silly.
Golden are also Dr. AMP's shovels which are really ordinary shovels sprayed with gold paint. Still, this makes all the difference because with the golden shovels you can dig yourself out of the shit, although Dr. AMP in the first place turned shit into gold by making those shovels. The message being that it is just a matter of having the right attitude, I guess. With the right one you can turn anything into gold.

Anyway, 11 years later, in 1956, something hedges out of an egg. It looks like a mix of a reptile (a sort of frog) and an insect. Two teens are introduced by walking out from behind a gas station, and Woodsmen emerge. I wonder what happened to Lynch when he was 10...

And of course there are these parallels in the depiction of Cooper entering Dougie and BOB entering the world of TP:

https://perception-de-ambiguity.tumblr. ... twin-peaks
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#141

Post by Carmel1379 » September 12th, 2017, 11:56 pm

Good thoughts. Some of those crossed my mind too while watching the series (I'll probably revisit this thread to eventually add a scattered post like that, at some point in the future when future events will affect me in the future, when I start rewatching more episodes), in particular (and I'm paraphrasing / adding some quick humble supplements):

-The progression of Cooper-Dougie's awakening follows a very logical course: all the little gestures and phrases he repeats have a particular significance for the old-Coop (were the elements that defined him). We all know of the abundant parodied coffee and cherry pie, but there's also "case files", the statue with the revolver, the police badges, etc. This structure makes absolute sense within the audience's expectations, one would imagine that amnesiac patients pursue a similar recovery, and that those iconic objects related to ones profession and life are ingrained deep down within ones subconscious, just waiting to resurface. Of course Lynch says fu to all that and lets Dougie (so aptly) electro-shock himself back to lucidity.

-Janey-E Jones and Diane are half-sisters, and Coop bangs both of them. What makes a man, Mr. Lebowski, if Dougie was a better partner? But this says something about the differences between Janey and Diane too. A major difference that structures their motivations and behaviour worth pointing out is that the former obviously has a child and the latter doesn't.

-Laura is given the message by Annie, Cooper's other love interest. Dreams are the vehicles of nonlinearity, the connections between dimensions (door opens in painting for Laura in FWWM at night), information is carried across time through love and emotions belonging to the human mind which secretes the oneiric realms.

-The Woodsman stemming from relative lack of imagination, but also conveying precisely the feeling that imagination simply cannot comprehend the Obscure, the Opaque intersection between the Convenience Store and tangible reality. The phantasms guarding Darkness, the Occult, the Woods, the Night, the Beyond, the Outside, all those Xenosystems, the Infinity ahead cannot, fundamentally, be depicted cinematically to us ordinary mortals with limited perception, which is a real challenge for the creators, and hence the decision was to drown everything into darkness (also re: Part 18), including the people, their faces, clothes and voices.

-One Woodsman also appears in Episode 2 in a prison cell next to Bill Hastings. They seem to oversee all of Mr. C's shenanigans and people that are significant (Bill was also obviously involved with the Black Lodge / 2240 Sycamore vortex).

-Speaking of the owl ring, Ray also has one when Mr. C shoots him in the leg, having been ordered to put it on his finger after he would've shot Mr. C. Of course the Woodsmen freaked him out, so he forgot that little detail.

-Speaking of the owl ring - How many of these are there? Theresa Banks, Chris Isaak, MIKE, Dougie, Cooper, Laura, Rey, ... - so many people seem to have interacted with one. Its precise range of functions / abilities still remain a little unclear, but it's a crucial item of the plot.

-Horses as good luck, horses as a soothing symbol in time of need (Sarah's hallucinations and freak-outs), horses as pretty figures above ones fireplace / on a shelf, horses as Jesus... oh wait, those were lambs. White and dark in conflict, sometimes in parallel (Woodsmen merges with night and we hear a horse's neigh - The Horses of the Apocalypse?).

-Just like the (first) naked lady on a street seen during his childhood influencing 'Blue Velvet', a kid's experiences vs. his parents influencing 'The Grandmother', and a young man's parenting experiences influencing 'Eraserhead', and many other examples, I almost have no doubt that the 1956 sequence in Part 8 has some traces from Lynch's (maybe Frost's too) adolescent experiences.

-The Atomic Bomb as a simultaneously destructive and creative force. A complex intertwine of human drives and tendencies. The audio-visual noise we try to apply meaning to. The jagged grains and textures spawning universes that in turn contain themselves again and again. Abstract cosmogenesis.

-Unrelated thought, since I just rewatched this: There's a Blue Rose at the end of 'Lady Blue Shanghai', which the girl discovers in her pursue at the end, after she realised she's been in Shanghai (seemingly within a dream with an imagined lover) before. She embraces the Blue Rose and the film ends on a hopeful tone. The Blue Rose thus alongside miracles, paradoxes, and impossibilities, may represent love, love for the mysterious.


Good points on the Glass Box-Prison, the Woodsman's poem / message to the world, Zen Woods (I'll have to pay more attention to this progression in my next rewatch, but it sure crossed my mind that the latter episodes (12-16) included more songs and sounds accompanying nature and the city), Golden Shit-Digging Shovels & Golden Tubes, and of course the great Coop-Dougie / BOB inception picture comparison.
Last edited by Carmel1379 on September 13th, 2017, 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
IMDb, letterboxd
Image
whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?


Well here he is skidded out onto the Zone like a planchette on a Ouija board, and what shows up inside the empty circle in his brain might string together into a message, might not, he'll just have to see.

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
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#142

Post by RedHawk10 » September 13th, 2017, 12:40 am

Perception de Ambiguity on Sep 12 2017, 02:53:58 PM wrote:More stray observations and random thoughts:

https://perception-de-ambiguity.tumblr. ... twin-peaks
While I don't agree that Twin Peaks is as...I don't know, "meta", as you do, these are some very interesting observations. Great post.

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#143

Post by Perception de Ambiguity » September 14th, 2017, 9:28 pm

Carmel1379 on Sep 12 2017, 05:56:46 PM wrote:Good thoughts. Some of those crossed my mind too while watching the series (I'll probably revisit this thread to eventually add a scattered post like that, at some point in the future when future events will affect me in the future, when I start rewatching more episodes), in particular (and I'm paraphrasing / adding some quick humble supplements):

-The progression of Cooper-Dougie's awakening follows a very logical course: all the little gestures and phrases he repeats have a particular significance for the old-Coop (were the elements that defined him). We all know of the abundant parodied coffee and cherry pie, but there's also "case files", the statue with the revolver, the police badges, etc. This structure makes absolute sense within the audience's expectations, one would imagine that amnesiac patients pursue a similar recovery, and that those iconic objects related to ones profession and life are ingrained deep down within ones subconscious, just waiting to resurface. Of course Lynch says fu to all that and lets Dougie (so aptly) electro-shock himself back to lucidity.

-Janey-E Jones and Diane are half-sisters, and Coop bangs both of them. What makes a man, Mr. Lebowski, if Dougie was a better partner? But this says something about the differences between Janey and Diane too. A major difference that structures their motivations and behaviour worth pointing out is that the former obviously has a child and the latter doesn't.

-Laura is given the message by Annie, Cooper's other love interest. Dreams are the vehicles of nonlinearity, the connections between dimensions (door opens in painting for Laura in FWWM at night), information is carried across time through love and emotions belonging to the human mind which secretes the oneiric realms.

-The Woodsman stemming from relative lack of imagination, but also conveying precisely the feeling that imagination simply cannot comprehend the Obscure, the Opaque intersection between the Convenience Store and tangible reality. The phantasms guarding Darkness, the Occult, the Woods, the Night, the Beyond, the Outside, all those Xenosystems, the Infinity ahead cannot, fundamentally, be depicted cinematically to us ordinary mortals with limited perception, which is a real challenge for the creators, and hence the decision was to drown everything into darkness (also re: Part 18), including the people, their faces, clothes and voices.

-One Woodsman also appears in Episode 2 in a prison cell next to Bill Hastings. They seem to oversee all of Mr. C's shenanigans and people that are significant (Bill was also obviously involved with the Black Lodge / 2240 Sycamore vortex).

-Speaking of the owl ring, Ray also has one when Mr. C shoots him in the leg, having been ordered to put it on his finger after he would've shot Mr. C. Of course the Woodsmen freaked him out, so he forgot that little detail.

-Speaking of the owl ring - How many of these are there? Theresa Banks, Chris Isaak, MIKE, Dougie, Cooper, Laura, Rey, ... - so many people seem to have interacted with one. Its precise range of functions / abilities still remain a little unclear, but it's a crucial item of the plot.

-Horses as good luck, horses as a soothing symbol in time of need (Sarah's hallucinations and freak-outs), horses as pretty figures above ones fireplace / on a shelf, horses as Jesus... oh wait, those were lambs. White and dark in conflict, sometimes in parallel (Woodsmen merges with night and we hear a horse's neigh - The Horses of the Apocalypse?).

-Just like the (first) naked lady on a street seen during his childhood influencing 'Blue Velvet', a kid's experiences vs. his parents influencing 'The Grandmother', and a young man's parenting experiences influencing 'Eraserhead', and many other examples, I almost have no doubt that the 1956 sequence in Part 8 has some traces from Lynch's (maybe Frost's too) adolescent experiences.

-The Atomic Bomb as a simultaneously destructive and creative force. A complex intertwine of human drives and tendencies. The audio-visual noise we try to apply meaning to. The jagged grains and textures spawning universes that in turn contain themselves again and again. Abstract cosmogenesis.

-Unrelated thought, since I just rewatched this: There's a Blue Rose at the end of 'Lady Blue Shanghai', which the girl discovers in her pursue at the end, after she realised she's been in Shanghai (seemingly within a dream with an imagined lover) before. She embraces the Blue Rose and the film ends on a hopeful tone. The Blue Rose thus alongside miracles, paradoxes, and impossibilities, may represent love, love for the mysterious.


Good points on the Glass Box-Prison, the Woodsman's poem / message to the world, Zen Woods (I'll have to pay more attention to this progression in my next rewatch, but it sure crossed my mind that the latter episodes (12-16) included more songs and sounds accompanying nature and the city), Golden Shit-Digging Shovels & Golden Tubes, and of course the great Coop-Dougie / BOB inception picture comparison.
Dougie-Cooper - Some of the phrases aren't even just aping other people's words. At least in his first few appearances he is still slightly more autonomous. For example when he saw a badge he reached for it and said "badge" without anybody else saying it. Or he goes around saying "Call for help.", "Hell-oooo-ooooo-ooo", pointing at himself and saying "Dougie Jones" when asked for his name, and other stuff he heard hours ago, and he kind of seems able to put some things together more cognitively, while in later episodes he really only repeats phrases that were just said seconds earlier, with the occasional identifying himself as "Dougie Jones".

"door opens in painting for Laura in FWWM at night" - You know that the room in the painting is an anteroom (or whatever) to the "room above the Convenience Store", right? Compare the wallpapers.

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Owl Ring - I think there is only one ring, but I look at it in a similar way as I look at the Convenience Store, an item to link things without having to follow one particular logic. At least in "The Return" it seems to have already become just part of the mysterious TP mythology, a way of transporting the souls of people into the Lodge as they die or whatever, known to make arms numb (see Dougie's introduction), etc., while previously I'd say it still had a more emotional/down-to-earth significance when it still more closely related to Leland/Bob/Laura.

Horses - They also seem to appear a bunch of times in Las Vegas, which makes sense because Nevada apparently has a large population of wild horses. Nevada State Quarter actually has a bunch of mustangs on it. It's a silver coin. - http://coins.com/coins/value-of-2006-ne ... e-quarter/
Where I noticed horses specifically is a scene with the Fusco brothers (the three cops, one of them always giggling about stupid shit), in their office they have a bunch of horse pictures on the wall. It's when they get the information about Dougie being a missing FBI agent and they dismiss it ("That's a huge fucking mistake."). I don't know if this could be read as Dougie being lucky in this particular instance. Depends on how you look at it.

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1956 - The kids in the scene obviously were older than ten, but it could be that this walk home with a girl, and his first kiss happened kind of like it is shown in Part 8, but Lynch decided to make them teenagers.

>The Atomic Bomb as a simultaneously destructive and creative force.<
Well, with electricity Lynch's philosophy is that it can be used for both good and bad. And in TP he shows both kind of uses quite extensively. So...

Lady Blue Rose Shanghai - Certainly doesn't surprise me.

Don't know about Hastings+Black Lodge. The place at 2240 Sycamore connects to the "room above the Convenience Store".

>-The Woodsman stemming from relative lack of imagination, but also conveying precisely the feeling that imagination simply cannot comprehend the Obscure, the Opaque intersection between the Convenience Store and tangible reality. The phantasms guarding Darkness, the Occult, the Woods, the Night, the Beyond, the Outside, all those Xenosystems, the Infinity ahead cannot, fundamentally, be depicted cinematically to us ordinary mortals with limited perception, which is a real challenge for the creators, and hence the decision was to drown everything into darkness (also re: Part 18), including the people, their faces, clothes and voices.<

Sure, as is the black blob symbol with the ears. "You don't ever wanna know about that." Not so much because it's so horrible (although I'm sure it isn't very pleasant) but because some shred of mystery should remain.
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#144

Post by Perception de Ambiguity » September 14th, 2017, 9:28 pm

OK, let's talk about the bells of TP. No, I don't mean the beautiful women (although there are Chrysta BELL and Monica BELLucci). Previously bells didn't seem to play much of a role in TP but they are all over "The Return". Most obviously there are the three(?) big bell devices in the Fireman's home, one of them right next to the screen in his "theater". And Naido's home(?) has a similar-looking one on her "space roof", and the building itself in the middle of the purple sea has a bell shape. Less obvious ones are for example a sign Mr. C passes in Part 3 that reads "Bell's Motor Lodge Motel", to attentive viewers every single one of these words should ring a bell within the series' context.

Image

We have the monastery bell reference in connection with the hum (picture posted earlier), and the hum does indeed have that quality. New Phillip Jeffries usually is described as a tea kettle but while the design is a little different I think he looks very much like those other big bells, just that this one has an arm sticking out that lets off steam. This is unrelated but I'll also mention that in "Kettle" Jeffries' room (room 8 of a Motel) Mr. C (and we) first only see a wall with a radiator on it (Part 15), but that wall opens up like a curtain (silent drapes) to reveal Jeffries. The image of the radiator remains faintly superimposed throughout the scenes, sometimes more visible, sometimes less. This evokes the Lady in the Radiator in 'Eraserhead', no?

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(brightened up a bit to make the radiator better visible)
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That's all fine and well, but what's the point of the recurring symbol? Interestingly there is one location where you would expect to see some bells but we don't, at least not as far as I could find, which is in Las Vegas and especially inside the casino, given that the bell is a popular symbol for slot machines. I dare say that a sitting owl also is kind of bell shaped but unlike TP 1&2 "The Return" seems to avoid this image as well.

Long story short, I think it's connected to Phillip Jeffries and the Philadelphia FBI headquarters from which Gordon Cole and his team USED to work. Jeffries' scene in FWWM took place there and it's set up with an establishing shot of the famous Liberty Bell in Philadelphia.

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In the scene with Bowie itself there is a framed picture of the bell in plain sight. "The Return" flashes back to the FWWM scene and consequently also features the image at least twice, once when Cole recounts his Bellucci dream and once when Cooper meets "kettle" Jeffries.

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"Kettle" Jeffries' room appears to be the same room that was used for, I think it was Naido's place, and possibly a room at the Fireman's place as well. It's not made obvious but the arches are pretty distinctive. I'm sure the room wasn't just reused for budgetary reasons. I'd also like to note that "kettle" Jeffries identifies Mr. C as Cooper, like he makes no distinction between the various Cooper versions.

Seemingly the only time that Cooper ever met (Bowie) Jeffries personally (although Cole says he only APPARENTLY was there) was in this FWWM scene since Cole has to introduce them to each other in that scene.
So did the original Jeffries actually have any logical or deeper connection to bells? Not as far as we know. That Cooper would associate Jeffries with a bell certainly would be understandable, though, as would be the fact that he leaves such a strong impression on him after that weird inexplicable encounter with him. What would also speak for my theory that the Jeffries and bell stuff is basically about Cooper making illogical associations is that they are both also linked to telecommunications again and again.

Jeffries for example allegedly gave orders to various other characters per telephone, Mr. C communicates with him in Part 1 over some special computer connection, in Part 15 when Mr. C talks to "kettle" Jeffries we get the impression that he himself suddenly started to ring before it is revealed to actually be a telephone that was hidden in a dark corner of the room. In the same episode Cooper-Dougie has bell-shaped salt and pepper shakers placed on his table, one of which he moves right next to the TV remote control (before turning on the TV and watching 'Sunset Blvd.', and you know the rest).

We could also associate the company Phillips with telephones, a merging of the name "Phillip Jeffries", whom Cooper met in Philadelphia... You get the point.

What's the connection? Well, Alexander Graham Bell famously invented the telephone (or patented the invention anyway), his company's logo (AT&T) used to be the bell, often seen in old movies on telephones. In fact the logo is seen on the very telephone outside the Convenience Store that Mr. C "comes out of" (Matrix-style) after picking up the telephone in Jeffries' room.

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Image

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#145

Post by Carmel1379 » September 18th, 2017, 11:26 pm

Yeah, I noticed the portal of the painting and Convenience Store's "anteroom" of the passage to deep woods and Phillip Jeffries are basically the same. The painting was of course given to Laura by Black Lodge's Aunt Barbara + lil' Lynch, but it only activates when she sleeps; it's a dreams-animated field, just like so many other places, which can only be accessed by passing a certain threshold, whether it's a dark road or electric barrier. This uncertainty, lack of information and fear when confronted with the Occult is a standard characteristic that must resonate with the viewer, but funnily contrary to us Cooper (whether in BOB- or FBI-from) was always fairly determined and sure what he was doing (apart from maybe Part 3, but he was repeatedly asked by the daughter of the banging mother to escape into the socket, so he didn't have a choice there) - in part 17 especially, which is then subverted in the end and especially in Part 18. Lynch shows Coop and the audience that the world is even more immense and varied than initially thought, "The Return" undermines all the familiar locations of the original series, and supplants them with newer ones, while going to an even greater level at the end.

Laura looking at herself sleeping from the painting's door (of perception) is reminiscent of Diane seeing herself when she's parked outside the Motel. Both times there's a feeling of a false awakening, of a dramatic disruption in ordinary perception - you can now view yourself from a third-person, outside perspective (do you sometimes have this in your dreams?), seeing yourself from an odd vantage point. INLAND EMPIRE has plenty of moments like these. A great way to explore and spasm identity... Have you ever seen a picture of yourself, taken when you didn't know you were being photographed, from an angle that you don't usually see when you look in a mirror, and you think: "That's me... that's ALSO me." Do you know what I'm talking about?

because some shred of mystery should remain. - We don't want to involve "jiāo dài" do we? ;-) 'Twin Peaks: The Return' is a supreme example of abstract horror done well.

Bells - Interesting, that rings a bell. It's very apt that all the bells (and kettles) are connected to electricity and powered by it, in contrast to more Zen or manually operated church bells whose sound and look are significantly less shrouded in ambient darkness. After all the neuro-electrically tele-transmitted dreams and thoughts operating in 'Twin Peaks' are encrypted and abstract.
Last edited by Carmel1379 on September 19th, 2017, 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?


Well here he is skidded out onto the Zone like a planchette on a Ouija board, and what shows up inside the empty circle in his brain might string together into a message, might not, he'll just have to see.

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
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#146

Post by Perception de Ambiguity » September 19th, 2017, 1:23 am

Carmel1379 on Sep 18 2017, 05:26:29 PM wrote:...you can now view yourself from a third-person, outside perspective (do you sometimes have this in your dreams?),...
Most certainly. Even if I always seem to play myself the point of view feels unrestricted, less like looking at surroundings through two eyeballs stuck in unchanging skull sockets, but rather very much like cinema, which not without reason can evoke dreams so well.


Remember the room at the Fireman's place that is filled with those bell-shapes sizzling with electricity that is seen for a moment in Part 17? I totally forgot to mention it. Obviously what I associated with it was the inside of an old TV set.

Image

Image

Speaking of which, there also is this Woodsman sitting next to an old machine without a back cover and the front turned to the fall with him turning it on (Part 15, I think, when Mr. C is shown traversing through these various realms to meet "kettle" Jeffries). You get the same imagery in FWWM, or rather in the Missing Pieces where you get much more of this. With those big boxes it's difficult to tell, but it seems to be a radio, you can actually see the front side of the other box next to the other Woodsman at 1:00, I assume that's the same device, but who knows.

https://youtu.be/ASdmYsbW-cY?t=20s
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#147

Post by Carmel1379 » September 19th, 2017, 2:31 am

Perception de Ambiguity on Sep 18 2017, 07:23:24 PM wrote:
Carmel1379 on Sep 18 2017, 05:26:29 PM wrote:...you can now view yourself from a third-person, outside perspective (do you sometimes have this in your dreams?),...
Most certainly. Even if I always seem to play myself the point of view feels unrestricted, less like looking at surroundings through two eyeballs stuck in unchanging skull sockets, but rather very much like cinema, which not without reason can evoke dreams so well.
Yeah, for sure. A few nights ago I got an 'Enter the Void'-like detachment where I saw myself/my body beneath me, still continuing to move around locations and interact with things, which lead me to ask this question. (I then started recalling about more times my first-person point of view was disrupted, with out-of-body third person perception, alongside being within characters other than my persona (even shot reverse shot while being imbued in the others mind, a cinematic influence for sure as well). It's very frequent, indeed, and the "camera" has limitless possibilities and turmoil to navigate.) But speaking of dreams and 'Twin Peaks', because I watched most of those notable Tommy Wiseau / Disaster Artist online videos you listed, last night I had a dream he was somehow involved with 'Twin Peaks', wearing those sunglasses, but I don't remember the specifics anymore, I didn't write it down.


Bell-shapes room - I associated tubes, containers and amplifiers of various kinds, and in particular I was reminded of the eggs chambers in 'The Matrix' and 'Alien':
Image
Image

Woodsman's box - I 'member. I thought of a radio as well, which would make sense narratively: through the device the Woodsman receive instructions on the right time Mr. C could continue moving, traverse the door. The use of and merging with antiquated opaque technology (and bells) by the supernatural characters serves as a nice contrast to the shiny smartphones of ordinary human folk, and it also reinforces the nonlinear time bonds the Black Lodge has - with 1956 in Part 8 and in general, their perception of the flow of time differing from ordinary linear continuity. The Fireman and Castle's Lady clothing is nicely old-fashioned, they don't seem to age or care too much if 25 years or 50 years pass (the Fireman could've been hibernated in space in the theatre since 1945 until Mr. C arrives for all we know), while obviously acknowledging the drastic impacts certain events might have (atomic bomb). There's a somewhat steampunk and decopunk feeling to some of these aesthetics.
Last edited by Carmel1379 on September 19th, 2017, 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
IMDb, letterboxd
Image
whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?


Well here he is skidded out onto the Zone like a planchette on a Ouija board, and what shows up inside the empty circle in his brain might string together into a message, might not, he'll just have to see.

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
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#148

Post by Perception de Ambiguity » September 19th, 2017, 8:55 pm

Carmel1379 on Sep 18 2017, 08:31:32 PM wrote:
Perception de Ambiguity on Sep 18 2017, 07:23:24 PM wrote:
Carmel1379 on Sep 18 2017, 05:26:29 PM wrote:...you can now view yourself from a third-person, outside perspective (do you sometimes have this in your dreams?),...
Most certainly. Even if I always seem to play myself the point of view feels unrestricted, less like looking at surroundings through two eyeballs stuck in unchanging skull sockets, but rather very much like cinema, which not without reason can evoke dreams so well.
Yeah, for sure. A few nights ago I got an 'Enter the Void'-like detachment where I saw myself/my body beneath me, still continuing to move around locations and interact with things, which lead me to ask this question. (I then started recalling about more times my first-person point of view was disrupted, with out-of-body third person perception, alongside being within characters other than my persona (even shot reverse shot while being imbued in the others mind, a cinematic influence for sure as well). It's very frequent, indeed, and the "camera" has limitless possibilities and turmoil to navigate.) But speaking of dreams and 'Twin Peaks', because I watched most of those notable Tommy Wiseau / Disaster Artist online videos you listed, last night I had a dream he was somehow involved with 'Twin Peaks', wearing those sunglasses, but I don't remember the specifics anymore, I didn't write it down.
Well, you know, there is no me, I am nothing, we are just clusters of tetrahedrons dancing around in the unified field, etc. Maybe this unbound point of view in dreams is a reflection of this. That when the conscious mind takes the backseat we are aware that our self is made up of more than our little body. In dreams we transcend that restrictive ego-mindset. To me my dream vessel still consistently feels like me and I think I still kind of feel the "weight" (or whatever) of my body, I don't perceive it as an out-of-body experience with a soul or what-have-you floating around. Whatever the "camera position" might be, it feels natural.

Of course whatever your mind is preoccupied with during the day is bound to feed into your dreams, and this may extend to the point of view you take in your dreams. If you played Tetris for 15 hours straight you might even see everything from the point of view of a Tetromino when you are asleep. So, maybe the emergence of film has something to do with that unbound point of view in dreams? But I would guess that it has always been like that, even before the invention of film. It may also have something to do with ones capacity for empathy? If you have a difficult time putting yourself into the shoes of others you may also tend to have a more restrictive point of view in your dreams? Well, it could have to do with a lot of things...

He's too old but I can picture Tommy Wiseau in his "regular" getup as Wally Brando. He doesn't need to interact much with other characters, in fact even within the "Twin Peaks" universe the character feels awkward and disconnected from everyone around him, and he mostly just gives his speech, so under the direction of Lynch (as far as Wiseau can be directed) he might just pass as a decent actor (but probably not).
It's funny you should mention Wiseau, though, because there are some stray observations I haven't posted yet, one of them being:

Sheriff Frank Truman (visible in at least one scene) wears two thick belts. Who does he think he is? Tommy Wiseau? How is a whole town supposed to trust a man who doesn't even trust his own belt to hold up his pants...
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#149

Post by Carmel1379 » September 20th, 2017, 1:57 am

Perception de Ambiguity on Sep 19 2017, 02:55:17 PM wrote:
Carmel1379 on Sep 18 2017, 08:31:32 PM wrote:
Perception de Ambiguity on Sep 18 2017, 07:23:24 PM wrote:Most certainly. Even if I always seem to play myself the point of view feels unrestricted, less like looking at surroundings through two eyeballs stuck in unchanging skull sockets, but rather very much like cinema, which not without reason can evoke dreams so well.
Yeah, for sure. A few nights ago I got an 'Enter the Void'-like detachment where I saw myself/my body beneath me, still continuing to move around locations and interact with things, which lead me to ask this question. (I then started recalling about more times my first-person point of view was disrupted, with out-of-body third person perception, alongside being within characters other than my persona (even shot reverse shot while being imbued in the others mind, a cinematic influence for sure as well). It's very frequent, indeed, and the "camera" has limitless possibilities and turmoil to navigate.) But speaking of dreams and 'Twin Peaks', because I watched most of those notable Tommy Wiseau / Disaster Artist online videos you listed, last night I had a dream he was somehow involved with 'Twin Peaks', wearing those sunglasses, but I don't remember the specifics anymore, I didn't write it down.
Well, you know, there is no me, I am nothing, we are just clusters of tetrahedrons dancing around in the unified field, etc. Maybe this unbound point of view in dreams is a reflection of this. That when the conscious mind takes the backseat we are aware that our self is made up of more than our little body. In dreams we transcend that restrictive ego-mindset. To me my dream vessel still consistently feels like me and I think I still kind of feel the "weight" (or whatever) of my body, I don't perceive it as an out-of-body experience with a soul or what-have-you floating around. Whatever the "camera position" might be, it feels natural.

Of course whatever your mind is preoccupied with during the day is bound to feed into your dreams, and this may extend to the point of view you take in your dreams. If you played Tetris for 15 hours straight you might even see everything from the point of view of a Tetromino when you are asleep. So, maybe the emergence of film has something to do with that unbound point of view in dreams? But I would guess that it has always been like that, even before the invention of film. It may also have something to do with ones capacity for empathy? If you have a difficult time putting yourself into the shoes of others you may also tend to have a more restrictive point of view in your dreams? Well, it could have to do with a lot of things...

He's too old but I can picture Tommy Wiseau in his "regular" getup as Wally Brando. He doesn't need to interact much with other characters, in fact even within the "Twin Peaks" universe the character feels awkward and disconnected from everyone around him, and he mostly just gives his speech, so under the direction of Lynch (as far as Wiseau can be directed) he might just pass as a decent actor (but probably not).
It's funny you should mention Wiseau, though, because there are some stray observations I haven't posted yet, one of them being:

Sheriff Frank Truman (visible in at least one scene) wears two thick belts. Who does he think he is? Tommy Wiseau? How is a whole town supposed to trust a man who doesn't even trust his own belt to hold up his pants...
Even when I ("my dream vessel" - good phrase there) float over my own body or inhabit different sets of people, I still feel fairly "me", the transitions seem smooth, there's no element of veritable strangeness in the moment, the visuals are patched in comfortable dream essence, like you said, consistency and naturalness is preserved, with all kinds of breaks and chaos happening nonetheless. It's only when we wake up that we realize something was actually strange. But I wish I had more nightmarish / disturbing dream effects too, they happen so seldom after all.

I'd bet that if one played Tetris for 15 hours straight that even if one looked at a blank wall nearby, visual echoes would appear. Like some of those visual illusions that you come across on the web, warping your perspective for a second or two. But yeah, it's certainly true that waking life experiences deeply influence the dreams of the following nights, even short random videos one watches throughout the day will often be (imperfectly) replicated in dreams, as some experiments have shown.


Another small fairly obvious stray observation I typed down:

Part 18 film connection (based on one possible interpretation of ‘Vertigo’) - Cooper is Scottie, and Laura is Madeline. Coop wanders around the world, living his life. Somewhere there’s another girl, another love interest, Diane (or Linda) [Vertigo's Midge], but she never mattered too much, as Coop he soon falls for Laura, the girl of his dreams he becomes obsessed with. (I know they were never romantically involved, but they're both the two most important characters of ’Twin Peaks’ and obviously entangled.) Laura, like Madeline, are both on the verge of madness, of plunging into the dark end of the corridor, living with profound thanatropic impulses that the men attempt to preempt. When Madeline dies, Scottie, remaining in the land of the living, must recover from his loss, inner void and “melancholia”, love stimulating him to slumber back to all the crucial places, and mentally reanimate the Madeline. Similarily, Cooper returns to Twin Peaks to save Laura from death, and when that doesn’t work at the end of Part 17, he (like Scottie) fantasises she exists in a parallel universe (as Carrie) [In 'Vertigo', for Scottie - Judy!) as another person, also in need of saving, in need of change (clothes, hair, location, parents, …), in need of Cooper, in need of being transformed back into Laura ("the gentleman knows what he wants"). But just like Scottie, when he attempts to drag that truncated ghost-copy back to his idealised reality, the fantasy crumbles into horror, death resurfaces and suffering reemerges, a repetition, eternal return of the cycle of pain. Both Part 18 and 'Vertigo' end with a scream and a hopeless man.
Last edited by Carmel1379 on September 20th, 2017, 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
IMDb, letterboxd
Image
whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?


Well here he is skidded out onto the Zone like a planchette on a Ouija board, and what shows up inside the empty circle in his brain might string together into a message, might not, he'll just have to see.

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
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#150

Post by RedHawk10 » October 10th, 2017, 9:43 pm

About halfway through my first rewatch of this season, and just about every episode has risen in my estimations, some very significantly.

Edit - finished my rewatch, this might be Lynch's finest work.
Last edited by RedHawk10 on January 23rd, 2018, 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#151

Post by Carmel1379 » October 26th, 2017, 10:37 pm

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/twin ... -dvd-2017/

A delineation of all the hours of Extras and Bonus Material.
IMDb, letterboxd
Image
whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?


Well here he is skidded out onto the Zone like a planchette on a Ouija board, and what shows up inside the empty circle in his brain might string together into a message, might not, he'll just have to see.

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
t o B e c o n t i n u e d


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