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Game of Thrones

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Game of Thrones

#321

Post by outdoorcats » September 2nd, 2017, 12:16 am

I think the show and books have been existing in completely different parallel universes for some time now. That's often a very good thing, since from interviews it was implied the ingenious opening to "The Winds of Winter" episode and the destruction of the Sept of Baelor was dreamed up by Benioff and Weiss. It also means that virtually nothing from upcoming books is really being spoiled. I'm guessing Jon will be resurrected, Stannis will die in a similar fashion, Bran will have a similar journey, and Sansa will rescue Jon with the army of the Vale in a battle with Ramsey (and in the books that will be their first reunion)...but overall I think the showrunners are charting their own course, likely a completely different journey but arriving at a similar ending.

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#322

Post by brokenface » September 2nd, 2017, 12:37 pm

outdoorcats on Sep 1 2017, 03:55:31 PM wrote:I'm on the side that liked Littlefinger's death scene, overall...but like the above poster, slightly disappointed with some aspects of the show after episode four. Really just the one thing, and that's the show's sudden toothlessness. A few years ago in Season 5 this was the most ruthless show on television. The threat of that ruthlessness made episodes like "Battle of the Bastards" a year later as terrifying and nail biting as they were, and it was still working for episode 4 of this season, which left me breathing like I had just sprinted a couple of miles if I remember correctly.

But after the umpteenth "last minute rescue" scene things are starting to feel a little cheesy and not as suspenseful. Like how many times did the show build up a character's death this season only to back away? Yara in Ep. 2, Bronn in 4, Jaime (twice! in 4 and 7), Tormund and Beric twice (6 and 7), everyone else who went north of the wall in 6 (Jorah twice in one episode), Tyrion in 7, Sansa in Ep. 6, Arya in Ep. 7, Drogon the Dragon in Ep. 4...am I forgetting anyone? Not counting they were definitely trying to fake-foreshadow a Grey Worm death with his sex scene. Don't they need to thin the herd a little?

It might seem like a weird complaint to say, "I want this show to hurt me more," but there you go. :shrug: But it ties into the overall problem of the show not being as surprising as it was in seasons past. To be fair, there were lots of little surprises this season, but no big ones.

With 6 (possibly feature-length) episodes to go, I'm still hoping for another Red Wedding...sick bastard that I am.
Indeed. For all its ruthlessness, by this point it certainly feels like its main core of characters who've been in it since the start are going to be there till the end (i.e. Jon/Arya/Sansa, Cersei/Jaime/Tyrion and Daenerys) so it's hard to believe they're in real danger. Some of them may die right at the end, but can't see any of them going before.

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#323

Post by Cynical Cinephile » September 2nd, 2017, 2:01 pm

I have to agree with you outdoorcats, but after all this time, it's a lose-lose situation. It wouldn't make sense to kill of characters just for the sake of shock. Looking back at all those horrible deaths in prior seasons, one can see how each of them lead to the moment where we're at now. Now that it's coming closer to the end, more deaths like that would only serve one purpose, to shock the audience, and that just feels cheap. On the flip side, you're still correct, the show has lost some of its edge and certainly isn't as suspenseful as it used to be. I knew Jon Snow would survive this season all along (same with other big players). However, I have no idea what the next season holds; the fact that we're coming to an end means that even protagonists are vulnerable again.

Btw, I'm not too sure Tormund and Beric survived the end of this season, but if I had to bet, I'd say they did.
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#324

Post by outdoorcats » September 9th, 2017, 5:44 pm

Tormund and Beric definitely survived. If you watch the scene carefully, you see the wall collapsing behind them as they run and then stop collapsing right behind their feet (again, a little too "Indiana Jones" for this show, no?) right before it cuts.

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#325

Post by funkybusiness » April 15th, 2019, 5:06 am

my boy Dolorous Edd stealing the show

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#326

Post by outdoorcats » April 15th, 2019, 11:33 pm

I actually thought Bran was the surprise MVP. "I'm waiting for an old friend." Old friend turns out to be
SpoilerShow
Jaime
. LOL.

Also props to the acting chops of John Bradley, who doesn't get credit often enough.

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#327

Post by funkybusiness » April 16th, 2019, 12:22 am

the dialogue was, for the most part, pretty atrocious, sub-soap opera level bullshit, like they're writing exclusively for meme captions or something, so the best acting was done when they weren't speaking, such as Sam, Theon, Jorah chillin' in the background, or Cersei once Euron left the room for like 2 seconds. Bran is about the only one capable of spinning his shit lines into gold. Tyrion/Varys was atrocious and Davos was there with them, but being not terrible? It was like they stitched two different scenes together, that's how wildly different the levels of acting were.

and am I the only one who is bewildered when all these characters are saying Sansa is the smartest one in the room? because her performance over the course of the show has been so bad, easily the worst of anyone, that I can't believe them when they say that. the gap is just too large between what the writers are trying to achieve with the character and what the actor is capable of achieving for there to be any cohesion.

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#328

Post by ChrisReynolds » April 16th, 2019, 1:01 am

funkybusiness wrote:
April 16th, 2019, 12:22 am
and am I the only one who is bewildered when all these characters are saying Sansa is the smartest one in the room? because her performance over the course of the show has been so bad, easily the worst of anyone, that I can't believe them when they say that. the gap is just too large between what the writers are trying to achieve with the character and what the actor is capable of achieving for there to be any cohesion.
I think Sophie Turner is one of the weakest actors of any of the main characters, but it would be nice if the show could at least give us an example of her being smart. Her not falling for Littlefinger's dumb plan to make her think Arya was plotting against her doesn't count. This is another case where the show's deviation and merging of characters has hurt character arcs. Book!Sansa will presumably reach the point of becoming a brilliant player of the Game of Thrones after being personally tutored by Littlefinger. Show!Sansa reaches that point by being abused by Ramsay Bolton.

Oh well, episode was mediocre by Game of Thrones standards, but these opening episodes always are, because they're about reacquainting the audience with the characters and moving everybody into their starting position for this season. I did like some of the interesting reunions and meetings. The best of these was Dany meeting Samwell. No surprise to see that her intolerant and imperious manner is making her few friends in The North. And Jon is back to his old ways of turning his closest allies against him by taking unilateral decisions and making weak speeches about how it was the right thing to do afterwards.

Even the writing has got slapdash ever since they were no longer able to pull things out of the book, there's still the pleasure of seeing fantasy characters having to grapple with realistic political and logistical ramifications of their actions. Hopefully the remaining five episodes will be heavy on the action, as that's the area where the show now truly shines.

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#329

Post by outdoorcats » April 16th, 2019, 1:19 am

funkybusiness wrote:
April 16th, 2019, 12:22 am
the dialogue was, for the most part, pretty atrocious, sub-soap opera level bullshit, like they're writing exclusively for meme captions or something, so the best acting was done when they weren't speaking, such as Sam, Theon, Jorah chillin' in the background, or Cersei once Euron left the room for like 2 seconds. Bran is about the only one capable of spinning his shit lines into gold. Tyrion/Varys was atrocious and Davos was there with them, but being not terrible? It was like they stitched two different scenes together, that's how wildly different the levels of acting were.

and am I the only one who is bewildered when all these characters are saying Sansa is the smartest one in the room? because her performance over the course of the show has been so bad, easily the worst of anyone, that I can't believe them when they say that. the gap is just too large between what the writers are trying to achieve with the character and what the actor is capable of achieving for there to be any cohesion.
Well that was uh, an extremely negative reaction. :shrug: What are we comparing the dialogue to here, Shakespeare? The prose of Cormac McCarthy? What's an example of a show with great writing?

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#330

Post by funkybusiness » April 16th, 2019, 2:38 am

I'm not saying I hated it, just that some elements of it were poor. the show, since becoming a worldwide phenomenon and not being able to base itself entirely off the books, has shifted dramatically towards being a broader-appealing, visually based spectacle, and from that perspective, it's still one of the best shows on television.

I'm with ya Chris on all of that.

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#331

Post by mightysparks » April 16th, 2019, 2:54 am

I’m in the middle of season 7 now, and I don’t really care how the show ends or who ends up on the throne as long as that arrogant hypocritical little brat Daenerys dies a painful death. She has been the weakest character and actor in the show, and the books, since the beginning and has never improved. She is basically a poorly written and acted Joffrey but with dragons and some patience. I don’t buy the love and respect anyone has for her because she is just so awful and stupid. The way she is described in the books makes it clear that she is Martin’s dream girl and she is a pointless and boring Mary Sue that needs to go away. Every other character has grown and is interesting in some way or has something to offer no matter how unlikable they are but all she has are dragons. Ugh.
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#332

Post by funkybusiness » April 16th, 2019, 3:05 am

she's the obligatory "Golden Age of Television" anti-hero, but she's a pertty girl so they've fooled the audience into thinking she's a good guy and go ahead and name your children after her. I think her character (not her performance) is a little more nuanced than what you imply, mighty, like what Chris was talking about earlier re: political implications, but she's obviously a bad dude, esp. regarding Jon Snow's speech at the end of last night's episode, it seems pretty clear that the writers will attempt (but maybe not follow through with...) a more democratic, "no one gets the throne"-type ending. which definitely doesn't cohere with the books, but, yeah, tv dun give a fuck.

also, there's loads of speculation about Arya's blueprint, but I have no idea considering her drawing didn't give much to work with re: scale. was it a small dart thing or a big stick/spear thing? who she gonna kill with it? TNK, zombie dragon or Jaime? I like the idea (in theory but not in practice) of her faceless man-ing her way into some climatic scene (the one I've seen most frequently is that she disguises herself as a white walker but... they'd know, right? they're magical creatures, I think they'd notice). GRRM loves re-using ideas over and over again, cyclical recurring elements, so maybe the show would do it considering she's done it before, the Freys and all that.

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#333

Post by Carmel1379 » April 17th, 2019, 10:31 pm

Guys, can you explain this meme to me (specifically the interaction in the bottom half (though I can already guess what happens...))

Image


Please, it's important.


(for the record I've seen the first 2 GoT seasons and know Bran is now some sort of psychic superman in a wheelchair)
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whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
Close the world. ʇxǝu ǝɥʇ uǝdO.
t o B e c o n t i n u e d

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#334

Post by flaiky » April 17th, 2019, 10:43 pm

It's the last moment of the episode: Jaime shitting a brick as Bran stares him out ominously. Bran spent half the episode waiting for him, knowing he was coming.

The meme gets a thumbs-up :thumbsup:
Last edited by flaiky on April 17th, 2019, 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#335

Post by Carmel1379 » April 17th, 2019, 10:49 pm

Thanks. The fact no one yet exactly knows what will happen kinda makes me like this meme even more.
IMDb, letterboxd, tumblr
Image
whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
Close the world. ʇxǝu ǝɥʇ uǝdO.
t o B e c o n t i n u e d

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#336

Post by Ivan0716 » April 18th, 2019, 5:49 am

mightysparks wrote:
April 16th, 2019, 2:54 am
The way she is described in the books makes it clear that she is Martin’s dream girl and she is a pointless and boring Mary Sue that needs to go away. Every other character has grown and is interesting in some way or has something to offer no matter how unlikable they are but all she has are dragons. Ugh.
She doesn't come across as a Mary Sue to me, she has some pretty obvious flaws and is often criticised by other characters. Plus, she's been in full entitled-bitch-mode since last season. I can't see her sitting on the throne at the end with the way they're handling her.

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#337

Post by mightysparks » April 18th, 2019, 6:00 am

Ivan0716 wrote:
April 18th, 2019, 5:49 am
mightysparks wrote:
April 16th, 2019, 2:54 am
The way she is described in the books makes it clear that she is Martin’s dream girl and she is a pointless and boring Mary Sue that needs to go away. Every other character has grown and is interesting in some way or has something to offer no matter how unlikable they are but all she has are dragons. Ugh.
She doesn't come across as a Mary Sue to me, she has some pretty obvious flaws and is often criticised by other characters. Plus, she's been in full entitled-bitch-mode since last season. I can't see her sitting on the throne at the end with the way they're handling her.
Every character comments about how 'beautiful' and 'amazing' she is constantly, even when they don't seem to like her and pretty much every dude is in love with her for no good reason. Her 'humility' and 'smart' decisions are always being praised, her followers act like she's the new Christ. She's been an entitled bitch since her first appearance so no growth or change there lol. I feel like she is also Mary Sue like because every time she wants something she just pulls out her dragons and no-one stands a chance so she can overpower everyone purely out of luck. She is obviously flawed because she's horrible, but most characters only seem to dislike her because she's an enemy player (or just instantly bow to her, like Jon Snow who's a weak little idiot now).
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#338

Post by outdoorcats » Today, 3:41 am

I was a really big fan of this episode (#2, which was apparently titled "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" ... the whole no-episode-title-until-after-it-airs is admittedly intriguing, but is there a point?). I think the past two episodes have been doing a good job correcting one of the two main issues of Season 7, which was rushing past the meaty character interactions to get to the big plot points, which resulted in some of the weirdness last season like Tyrion only seeming slightly annoyed at his niece's murderer. Now that it's becoming clear that the final season will seemingly be centered around two big set-pieces (a Winterfell battle and some kind of battle with Cersei I'm guessing?) it was important to re-invest stakes in these characters and remind us why we don't want any of them to die. And damn, I could feel the tension in the pit of my stomach throughout this episode. Kudos to David Nutter.

That knighting scene (and including all the interactions in front of the fireplace preceding it) is also maybe my favorite dialogue-based scene since maybe season 3 or 4. Maybe I'm biased as a Brienne fan though. Great to see her re-emerge as a key player since she's been kind of an afterthought for a few seasons now.

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#339

Post by funkybusiness » Today, 7:05 am

any knight can make a knight
you pullin' that outta yer butt, Jaime!

but no, I also quite liked that scene. Big Dick Podrick's song was one of those moments where you go "oh shit, book readers are gonna flip and everybody else is gonna shrug". in before Daniel Portman stars in whatever ripoff/sequel they come up with to that Danny Boyle film aka which 60s/70s band can we ruin and turn into a terrible movie next after Queen and the Beatles.

Jorah's "to guard the realms of men" when he accepted Sam's sword was the best line in like four seasons, and they didn't make a fuss over it. execution was perfect on that, all around.


but in a hundred years the only thing anyone will ever remember about Game of Thrones will be SHE SUCKLED ME AT HER TEAT. excellent adaptation that outshines the original book material, which does happen every once in a while.

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#340

Post by outdoorcats » Today, 1:04 pm

The episode title and the fact that it referred to Brienne was a nice Dunk & Egg connection too, considering Brienne is supposed to be descended from Dunk. Of course Bryan Cogman wrote this episode.

Admittedly I had forgotten that song was from the books until I googled it afterwards. Daniel Portman + Djawadi's version >>> Florence and the Machine's, btw, though her version isn't bad.

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#341

Post by Ivan0716 » Today, 1:27 pm

My predictions on who will perish in the upcoming Battle of Winterfell:
SpoilerShow
Jorah
Theon
Davos
Brienne
that other Night's Watch dude whose name continues to elude me
that annoying little northern bitch

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#342

Post by outdoorcats » Today, 2:36 pm

I'm going to wildly guess (I really have no idea, these are hail marys):
SpoilerShow
Bran (some sort of strategic sacrifice which he's already planning), Grey Worm, Gendry, Tormund, Podrick, Beric, Lyanna Mormont, Gilly + Baby Sam, Dolorous Edd, Lord Royce, one more dragon--possibly Rhaegal, and the scared ginger dude with the bow
.

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#343

Post by ChrisReynolds » Today, 3:21 pm

My predictions on deaths and battle outcomes (before looking at anyone else's)
SpoilerShow
Grey Worm
Missandei
Podrick Payne
Tormund Giantsbane
Lyanna Mormont
Edd
Jorah Mormont
Beric Dondarrion
Theon Greyjoy
One of the dragons (probably Rhaegal)

I'm predicting the Night King to win and the remaining characters to retreat to the Iron Islands.

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#344

Post by ChrisReynolds » Today, 3:34 pm

One more prediction
SpoilerShow
Bran wargs into a dragon, probably Drogon, and airlifts some characters to safety. I feel this needs to happen to fulfil the "you will fly" prophecy about him.
With regards to the episode. I liked it overall, and there were a series of strong scenes -- Jaime's trial, Sam giving Jorah heartsbane, Jon revealing his heritage to Dany, Tormund's origin story, Podrick's song and Jaime knighting Brienne -- but there were also a lot of scenes that were checking in with characters. I feel that this week's and last week's episode both essentially filled the same function of being a prelude to the big battle so there's a slight feeling of the show spinning its wheels.

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#345

Post by Lilarcor » Today, 4:27 pm

SpoilerShow
Brienne is the only one that feels absolutely certain to me based on how episode 2 turned out.

Hoping the Night King wins for two reasons:
1) Improves the stakes of the show
2) I can barely see what is going on sometimes in the night scenes in Winterfell

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