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running riot 4 race

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xianjiro
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Re: running riot 4 race

#41

Post by xianjiro » June 15th, 2020, 8:54 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
June 15th, 2020, 12:34 pm
Yep, drinking myself to death still seems like a better option than most others out there.
Not sure if Elizabeth Shue is available :o ;) :P :( It's much less fun without a sexy enabler

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#42

Post by xianjiro » June 15th, 2020, 9:05 pm

blocho wrote:
June 15th, 2020, 5:52 pm
I'm going to stop going to protests, and I'm going to try to limit my news consumption for a bit (though the second part will be difficult). There's just so much ugliness, and I'm not able to handle it emotionally. Choosing to withdraw like that, of course, is a retreat. Every movement for social change would fail if people went away when things got ugly. But it's what I need right now.
This is a fairly worthwhile survival strategy. I've mentioned elsewhere that there was a period in 00s where I didn't look at any news for a couple years. In some ways, life was better though I was surprised later to find some big things I didn't even know happened.

But nowadays, I limit myself to headlines and reading text: after seeing the WTC collapse umpteen hundred times, I decided video wasn't a good thing. Okay, watch this or that video one time if one needs to see whatever happened or if one is in doubt and wants more of a first-hand experience, but if one is watching broadcast news, one must have seen the Floyd video way more times than anyone should by now. (I've also disabled autoplay and immediately close videos that spawn on news sites.) Broadcast news, especially when they are chasing "breaking news", is just so repetitive. I remember after the Great Tohoku Earthquake and Tsunami, they played the same video of industrial plant fires (very close to where I lived in Japan) and of course those horrible videos of waves coming in and destroying entire communities. It was rather numbing. So I stay away from video pretty religiously now. Text is best.

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#44

Post by blocho » June 18th, 2020, 3:50 pm

I haven't succeeded at all in avoiding the news.

Here's an update on New York: https://gothamist.com/news/where-are-go ... ls-hearing

Testimony on NYPD brutality is ongoing for a few more hours: https://ag.ny.gov/livestream

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#45

Post by blocho » June 19th, 2020, 11:25 pm

OK, I've utterly failed at my resolution to stop going to protests and not follow the news.

But I just had to go to a protest today. It's Juneteenth, and New York was absolutely hopping. There must have been about 50 or 60 different events planned, so many that some protests ran into other protests and created serendipitous mergers. And I've learned that having a drum line makes any protest a thousand times better. I was also a little less vituperative toward the cops, though I still carried my "NYPD = Terrorists" sign.


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#47

Post by xianjiro » July 13th, 2020, 2:02 am

The recent data has led epidemiologists to question whether large outdoor gatherings have served as the “superspreader” events they initially feared — and is providing them with further evidence that major coronavirus spreading events are occurring primarily at indoor facilities.
- source (link crossposted on Covid thread as well)

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#48

Post by blocho » July 15th, 2020, 2:55 pm

A video compilation of police brutality during the weeklong NYPD reign of terror in early June. This is what policing is like in New York City.

It's valuable to have all of these videos in one spot, but don't give the Times any credit for putting this together. It only took them six weeks.

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#49

Post by xianjiro » July 15th, 2020, 7:03 pm

What can I say? That's not going to be on my shortlist @blocho. I've seen all the police brutality videos I need to for one lifetime, but that's just me personally. Glad people are documenting it: documentation is a good thing.

BTW, there have been something like 45+ nights of protests in Portland - every night for seven weeks. For a while, the local paper would have a daily headline with the count, but I couldn't find it. Is this happening elsewhere?

Interestingly, the local current has changed and while I won't say Portland police are handing out refreshments and chatting up the protesters, the climate is definitely shifting towards deescalation, especially with purely peaceful #BLM marches and rallies. That said though there are still regular (nightly?) clashes with a smaller group (anarchists?) outside the "Justice Center" with occasional battles outside one precinct as well. But PPD is looking better now that Trump's goon squad has started going after people. Not sure how long before the focus of the anger shifts from PPD to them, but it's probably started and local politicos and some other leaders aren't pleased by the Federal "protection" (aka interference). Certainly more to come in this Summer of Discontent but who knows if it will continue once the weather turns cold and wet.

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#50

Post by blocho » July 15th, 2020, 7:28 pm

xianjiro wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 7:03 pm
BTW, there have been something like 45+ nights of protests in Portland - every night for seven weeks. For a while, the local paper would have a daily headline with the count, but I couldn't find it. Is this happening elsewhere?
Oh yeah. Forty-seven consecutive days of protest in NYC. It's dropped off a lot since the end of June, when our mayor and city council passed a budget that did almost nothing to rein in the police, but there are still protestors heading out there every day (my last protest was on July 4). In the past week, counter-protestors have emerged under the banner of Blue Lives Matter or "Back the Blue". This sort of backlash was inevitable, though the crowds are pretty small.

Last weekend, there was some violence and plenty of vituperation between these two groups at protests in South Brooklyn. Not surprisingly, the few people arrested were all people protesting the police. None of the pro-police demonstrators were arrested. And this morning, there was another encounter when 10-15 protestors tried to block the pro-police crowd from crossing a bridge. The police arrested them so the pro-police protest could cross.

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#51

Post by xianjiro » July 15th, 2020, 7:42 pm

It's probably 47 then in Portland as well and guess what, the 'reform' the city enacted was to pull cops out of schools, eliminate the gun violence (formerly gang enforcement) squad, and I think there was something else. All things activists, and now one city council member, have been asking for for years, but the overall 'hit' the budget was minimal - well less than 10% and I'm not exactly clear where that money is going. Supposedly they are going to be talking more about reform and there is some reason to believe that the collective bargaining agreement has something to do with it. Don't remember that detail, but I think both 'parties' agreed to an extension of the current contract to either the end of 20 or 21. But honestly, even with lefties and Dems running the city and state, I don't believe real, substantive change will happen this year. The legislature met and probably the biggest 'reform' they pulled out their special sessions was to make it illegal for police to use tear gas on a peaceful crowd. But still, we have to keep pressing for reform.

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#52

Post by blocho » July 15th, 2020, 7:58 pm

Yeah, reform in New York has been very minor. Here's what's happened so far:
- Repeal of a state law that shielded police disciplinary records (the most significant reform so far)
- Passage of a city law to make police chokeholds illegal, rather than just against official department policy
- Passage of a city law to bring more transparency and oversight to police use of surveillance technology
- Cancellation of the July 2020 class of recruits, which is projected to lead to a 2.5% reduction in the number of police officers

There's also been some other stuff that amounts to window dressing. Ostensible reforms that actually aren't.

Here are the two reforms I most want:
- Creation of an independent prosecutor to investigate and prosecute police brutality and corruption. Right now, there's very little accountability for police misconduct. The various District Attorney officers in each of the five borough can bring criminal cases against the police, but they almost never do so because have to cooperate with police every day, and they are scared of offending them. There is a Civilian Complaint Review Board, but its investigatory power is limited (it can't freely review body cam footage, for example) and it can only make recommendations for punishment, which the police commissioner can ignore. As an aside, activists spent 40 years struggling to create a CCRB, and in 1992 when they finally got it done, the police promptly rioted, led by a young fellow named Rudy Giuliani. Finally, the NYPD has its own internal discipline system, but it can only provide administrative punishments (loss of vacation days is the most common). An independent prosecutor is the only hope that justice can be done when police commit crimes.
- A law that requires police to buy their own malpractice insurance, much as doctors do. In 2018, the city government spent $230 million to settle lawsuits against the police. That money comes directly out of taxpayers' pockets. That $230 million figure was actually seen as a great accomplishment, because it was down from more than $300 million the year before. If police had to buy their own insurance to cover the costs of such lawsuits, and if that insurance got more expensive when they fuck up (as it does for doctors), that would both force the cops to pay for their own malfeasance and provide a strong disincentive to continue brutalizing people.

Ideally, I would also like to close the NYPD and replace it with an entirely new police organization. I think the institutional culture is so rotten that such a move is warranted, but the two reforms above are more important and more achievable.

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#53

Post by blocho » July 15th, 2020, 8:13 pm

xianjiro wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 7:42 pm
But honestly, even with lefties and Dems running the city and state, I don't believe real, substantive change will happen this year.
The sad truth is that most politicians are terrified of the police. The police in many cities operate with a mob attitude: "Nice city you have there. It would be a shame if something happened to it." Just in the past 10 years, the NYPD has engaged in two illegal work slowdowns in 2014 and 2019 and possibly a third one right now (the numbers aren't confirmed yet) because citizens and politicians had the temerity to suggest that they change. The message is consistent: If you criticize us or try to change how we work, we'll stop doing our job, and then you'll be sorry because crime will rise.

There are 51 seats on the New York City Council. The party breakdown is 47 Democratic, 3 Republican, 1 vacant. Some of those council members campaigned on promises to rein in the police (as our mayor did). But none of them actually will because they're scared of the police having a conniption. The police in New York are a rogue organization, but the mayor has the power to fire the leadership, and the city council has the power to pass laws and change their budget. The police suck, but the politicians are even worse.

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#54

Post by xianjiro » July 18th, 2020, 7:57 am

decided not to reply to your prior two posts a back after you made them - not because of what you said since I think we're of like minds on these issues - just was hoping others would add to the discussion

I've already alluded to and seen replies in another thread about people being snatched off the streets in downtown Portland by federal agents, often in camo, in unmarked vehicles. Seems while I was incommunicado today that story blew up internationally as well as an administration spokesman arriving in town to crow about it. Sorry, between the whole Desaparecidos nightmare and some leader's love of dictators, their power, and his continued use of similar rhetoric, my blood boils and curdles. I'm not saying we're there yet, but ... Far from helping - most of the local factions were getting into the same book if not anything like the same page - this will return the city to what the Bush administrations called "Little Beirut". I write about my anger. Politicians tweet and give interviews. Other people take to the streets ... Last summer will look like the summer of love compared to what comes next and I've little doubt it will come. Escalation begets escalation and all sorts of ground was paved by the War on Terrah.

This is a developing story.

Again. I could go on and on and on, but I'm not sure many people care what I have to say on the issue: it's being reported, pretty sure people can figure out what's going on for themselves, but I'll answer questions and probably spout off from time to time.

But back to local cops - Sandy police officer killed Tualatin man in mental crisis, shot colleague during attempted arrest, report says - if there's nothing worse than a cop killer, I have to wonder how this story gets spun by the law 'n' odor crowd.

points of reference: Tualatin is another suburb in my county west of Portland, Sandy's in Clackamas County to the south of Portland and by far the most conservative of the three, and Welches is up in the mountains east of Sandy and sit just below Timberline Lodge (Shining exteriors) - the three counties are bigger than Delaware and about twice the size of Rhode Island in terms of area

Police are not social workers or psychiatrists. I point to it as a current example of what I consider to be another policing-related crisis: I was told by a county deputy (during a ride along), that about 50% of calls they field now are mental health 'issues'. I know I don't need to say much more than that, but again, society needs to rethink how it deals with these problems and this clearly intersects with BLM. BTW, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... f_Portland "U.S. v. City of Portland is notable because of its finding persons with mental illness are primary recipients of police use-of-force." Portland occupies 4.8% of the three counties' land area.

This story will die in the cross-fire thanks to Trump's goon squad.

I understand your anger on some level. I appreciate you trying not to be angry elsewhere in the forum. :hug:

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#55

Post by xianjiro » July 18th, 2020, 9:56 am


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#56

Post by blocho » July 18th, 2020, 2:16 pm

xianjiro wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 7:57 am
if there's nothing worse than a cop killer, I have to wonder how this story gets spun by the law 'n' odor crowd.
NYPD killed two of its own in 2019. Both were "friendly" fire incidents while trying to apprehend someone else. In the second incident, a cop was fighting with a man on the street, and some other cops fire multiple shots, which hit and killed both people in the fight.

In the first incident, two cops entered a store that was being robbed by a man with a fake gun. While they were inside, some other cops outside the store shot up the store with 42 bullets. Both cops inside were hit, one of them dying.

Were any cops punished for killing their colleagues? Nope. Was anyone charged with a crime? Well, yes, actually. The man who robbed the store in the second incident has been charged with felony murder. So was his accomplice, who was serving as lookout and wasn't in the store during the shootout. Neither of them fired a shot, but because they were committing a crime during which some cops shot each other, they end up charged with murder.

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#57

Post by xianjiro » July 19th, 2020, 12:01 am

not really sure what to say - seems pretty insane to me

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#59

Post by xianjiro » August 7th, 2020, 6:28 am

Part of me is surprised I'm not seeing more coverage of protests elsewhere. I feel like I'm in a bubble and protests are only happening in Portland though by searching I've found some articles - and of course blocho's mentioned - that it's going on elsewhere. I'm not just sure people are aware how widespread it is or isn't, especially if they aren't involved in something like BLM.

Anyway, here's a troubling story out of Salt Lake City where it appears splashing red paint or breaking windows during a protest carries a possible life sentence. I want to say "unfuckingbelievable", but then again, the law and odor crowd love their mandatory minimum sentences. And if anything says Criminal Justice Industrial Complex, it's got to be a mandatory life sentence for vandalism.

And they wonder what people are protesting about/against.

:facepalm:

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#60

Post by Minkin » August 12th, 2020, 12:31 am

xianjiro wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 7:57 am

Police are not social workers or psychiatrists. I point to it as a current example of what I consider to be another policing-related crisis: I was told by a county deputy (during a ride along), that about 50% of calls they field now are mental health 'issues'. I know I don't need to say much more than that, but again, society needs to rethink how it deals with these problems and this clearly intersects with BLM. BTW, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... f_Portland "U.S. v. City of Portland is notable because of its finding persons with mental illness are primary recipients of police use-of-force."
This makes sense - as my mother threatened to call the cops on me recently, after she discovered I had made a suicide attempt (I'm fine, sorta, not really). I'm not sure what she thought the police would do, especially when the county has a mental health crisis team. Hell, I've even met with the crisis team twice before - and they were calm and did their best to ascertain my level of safety and my plan to stay safe moving forward + offered plenty of resources. There's no reason why the crisis team shouldn't be the primary respondents to any and all mental health interactions. If only the resources spent on the cops were allocated to these programs, there'd be a lot more beneficial progress. I can't imagine a worse person to respond to any mental health crisis than some scary authority figure with a gun.

The only thing I can imagine a cop doing is throwing me in the back of their wagon and dumping me at a hospital for them to figure out - and that's a best case scenario. Worst case would be they'd mistake my schizophrenic mutterings as a threat and pin me down or worse.

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#61

Post by xianjiro » August 12th, 2020, 1:12 am

I'm sorry to hear you've had a rough time of it recently Minkin and do hope you keep to your safety plan. I think for a lot of people - who maybe don't pay attention or whatever - they just don't know that there are alternatives to calling 911. That's what we've been trained to do and that system seems to default to either fire/ambulance or police. There needs to be that third option "crisis management" and they need to be funded on the same level as the others.

The lack of funding creates a problem for even those who know and are willing to use the crisis intervention services where they exist. When I had to call them a number of years ago, I had to wait on hold for nearly an hour. If that's the usual case, I get why someone hangs up and calls 911. They've called because they are scared, don't know what to do, and need help ASAP. RoboCop isn't the answer! Even sending firefighters would be better than cops.

But how long has it taken for political leaders and bureaucrats to wake up to the need to reform policing and what are they doing? This shit seems obvious to me but our political system just drags and drags.

Please take care! We love you and enjoy your contributions. :hug: :hug: :hug:

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