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Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: June 22nd, 2021, 12:31 pm
by Pretentious Hipster
Seems like they're letting other countries mass produce the vaccines as well. If the third world actually becomes ok cause of Cuba then first world big pharma is gonna be a laughing stock lol

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: June 22nd, 2021, 7:37 pm
by xianjiro
Pretentious Hipster wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 12:31 pm Seems like they're letting other countries mass produce the vaccines as well. If the third world actually becomes ok cause of Cuba then first world big pharma is gonna be a laughing stock lol
they already are

The main things though - can the Cubans get this out to the public in the underdeveloped and developing world with minimal cost and risk. If they figure that part out, they will have done more to put the skids on the pandemic than anyone.

Also, if their initial test results hold up, their vaccines would be more effective than the Russian, Chinese, and maybe Indian vaccines. I also have to wonder if the heterogeneity of the Cuban population provided a wider range of DNA for the tests. Saw one report that a Chinese test was X% effective in China, but something like X-30 in Brazil and that made me wonder if there was some genetic variation between the populations that came into play, but I admit that the actual vaccine mechanics are a bit beyond my interest level, especially with so many in development and I only took one.

Now just to wait to see if we need to get a booster ...

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: June 22nd, 2021, 7:42 pm
by kongs_speech
Getting my first dose very soon hopefully.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: June 23rd, 2021, 12:31 am
by Knaldskalle
Pretentious Hipster wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 12:31 pm Seems like they're letting other countries mass produce the vaccines as well. If the third world actually becomes ok cause of Cuba then first world big pharma is gonna be a laughing stock lol
Manufacturing is probably a bigger hurdle than "intellectual property" rights. There are only so many places in the world that can manufacture these things at a sufficiently high standard (even the US has had issues with manufacturing the vaccines), so the question is if there are enough places to get the stuff made.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: June 23rd, 2021, 12:20 pm
by brokenface
The more working vaccines there are, the better, but as Knald says it'll be the difficulty of large scale manufacture and distribution that will mean Cuban vaccines (or any other still in trials) will not be just swooping in and saving the third world. It'll be more country by country going for one which is most available for them.

Bear in mind it's taken 6 months from approval to now for big pharma to get their vaccines in decent % of population in rich countries with established vaccine manufacturing facilities and fewer distribution issues. Cuban vaccines are not even at approval now so even in a best case scenario timeline it's not going to be making much of a blip in the ocean of global demand this year. Oxford/AZ and China's vaccine been the main ones globally outside of the wealthy countries that are mostly using pfizer.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: June 23rd, 2021, 12:35 pm
by Pretentious Hipster
Tbh I don't see it getting approved, since they're one of the "enemy countries". I did see that Iran are doing trials for it, and that Venezuela will start production of it though.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: June 23rd, 2021, 11:10 pm
by brokenface
well no it probably won't be approved in any western countries, certainly zero chance US will. Partly attitude but mainly just not needed at this point for countries which already have high % of people vaccinated and decent supply of several different vaccines already. It'll be specific countries who have need for supply and a relationship with Cuba that will look to use it, hence Venezuela, Iran.

And realistically there aren't going to be supplies to use it on a big global scale so approval everywhere is a moot point.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: June 24th, 2021, 2:18 am
by Pretentious Hipster
I feel like it might be important depending on the variants. It is mentioned that the Cuban vaccine is quite effective in dealing with the Brazilian variant for example. With worldwide mass production of the vaccines from other countries it might help in dealing with future variants that some vaccines are not as effective against. Kind of like pooling them together to find, or even create, the best solution.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: June 24th, 2021, 3:30 am
by Knaldskalle
Do you think the offer of a Cuban "alternative" vaccine is going to go over well with any most Trumpian holdouts? :whistling:

But the more vaccines the better, it may turn out that some of them are more efficient than others against future variants.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: June 24th, 2021, 8:50 am
by xianjiro
Think that even if by some miracle they could manufacture enough to inoculate 3-4 billion, the logistics of distribution and administration are going to be a severe challenge throughout most of Africa and even in Latin American, the Caribbean, and SE Asia/Oceania. Granted, there hasn't been enough will to move vaccines around the planet quite yet, but it's also really early, honestly. Parts of Europe and other richer countries in the Middle East (for example) are way behind. I've no idea, again for example, how Indonesia will manage to get 270 million vaccinated. Or Fiji.

For a disease that would die in the heat of summer, it's sure finding ways to spread through equatorial regions - maybe not like it did in the northern winter, but it's still quite concerning.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: June 24th, 2021, 11:04 am
by Armoreska
Knaldskalle wrote: June 15th, 2021, 3:19 pm
Pretentious Hipster wrote: June 15th, 2021, 2:09 am America did an amazing act of donating Pfizer vaccines to Trinidad!

There was just one problem...they were given 80 doses
I just read that Denmark donated 500,000 doses to Ukraine. And Denmark's vaccination rate is lower than that of the US.
gimme one!

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: June 25th, 2021, 9:05 pm
by xianjiro
Iran’s Supreme Leader Khamenei receives local COVID vaccine

Human trials on the COVIran Barekat vaccine began in late December and about 24,000 volunteers have received jabs as part of a third phase of trials that recently concluded.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/2 ... id-vaccine

seems it won't be up to only the Cubans to save the developing world. It might actually take many nations ... but distribution is still going to be a challenge.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 1st, 2021, 11:58 pm
by Pretentious Hipster
Looks like covid hit North Korea

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 2nd, 2021, 12:15 am
by xianjiro
people have been remarking about his unexplained weight loss
Spoiler
Image
maybe the 'great crisis' and 'grave incident' saw the great leader humbled by the tiny virus

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 2nd, 2021, 12:16 am
by Pretentious Hipster
Tbh I think that's going a bit far. I'm assuming he just lost weight naturally. I mean, he doesn't look unhealthily skinny now.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 2nd, 2021, 12:46 am
by weirdboy
Yeah maybe he is just on a diet.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 2nd, 2021, 12:49 am
by Pretentious Hipster
Off topic but that's my beef with news regarding North Korea. There's so much ridiculous and frankly contradictory news articles, like men MUST have his hair vs men are NOT ALLOWED to have his hair, or him being dead and then not dead then dead again. It's impossible to find out what's actually going on there and those articles are not helping.

I actually did see a fascinating documentary on it made by a South Korean. It didn't show it in a positive light, but at the same it showed how exaggerated some aspects are said from the west (their standard of living actually seems ok).

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 11th, 2021, 11:08 pm
by Pretentious Hipster
I guess the news outlet might be random, but the source of it is reputable. Seems like the virus did not come from a lab as it has a similar patterns to animal-to-human virus transmissions

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ ... -1.4615247

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 12th, 2021, 4:55 am
by joachimt
In the meantime in The Netherlands.......

Image

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 12th, 2021, 8:00 am
by Knaldskalle
Re: North Korea. I wouldn't be surprised if the regime suddenly sees a spike in Covid-19 cases that largely features people looking like Holocaust victims. Don't forget that North Korea's population dropped by ~5% in the mid-1990s due to famine and they're currently going through another situation with food shortages. Last year's harvest drowned due to flooding and this year isn't looking much better, apparently. In the meantime, before the new harvest comes in, there's a food shortage.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 12th, 2021, 10:21 am
by xianjiro
I am going on record now as saying we are heading into yet another wave in the US since 1) the feds have encouraged everyone to let down their guard {note: in places that had any guard} and 2) since cases have started to rise again nationally (in 42 states I read today) thanks to Delta and I predict soon, Delta Plus. On top of that, we now have Lambda as a variant of interest from Peru - so that's 11 named (by Greek letter, so we can keep them in order more easily) variants - anyway, Lambda, while new, is rumored to be as much trouble as Delta but also even better at working around the vaccine. Time will tell.

And let's not forget all those who haven't gotten around to getting vaccinated yet but will, and those who are waiting for full FDA approval (emergency approval isn't good enough), and less we forget the outright anti-vaxxers. On top of all that, we have the under-12s who can't be vaccinated.

Nope. It's happened time and again. In country after country. And nobody's learning the lesson.

Yeah, I will wear my mask indoors through at least the end of the year - probably through next spring.

It's not over until the fat virus croaks. :(

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 12th, 2021, 10:26 am
by sebby
xianjiro wrote: July 12th, 2021, 10:21 am I am going on record now as saying we are heading into yet another wave in the US since 1) the feds have encouraged everyone to let down their guard {note: in places that had any guard} and 2) since cases have started to rise again nationally (in 42 states I read today) thanks to Delta and I predict soon, Delta Plus. On top of that, we now have Lambda as a variant of interest from Peru - so that's 11 named (by Greek letter, so we can keep them in order more easily) variants - anyway, Lambda, while new, is rumored to be as much trouble as Delta but also even better at working around the vaccine. Time will tell.

And let's not forget all those who haven't gotten around to getting vaccinated yet but will, and those who are waiting for full FDA approval (emergency approval isn't good enough), and less we forget the outright anti-vaxxers. On top of all that, we have the under-12s who can't be vaccinated.

Nope. It's happened time and again. In country after country. And nobody's learning the lesson.

Yeah, I will wear my mask indoors through at least the end of the year - probably through next spring.

It's not over until the fat virus croaks. :(
You stole my post, basically. Was going to add we also now know reinfection is possible -- just not how likely it is, both for vaxxed or unvaxxed folk. Shaping up to be another shitty year!

Trump and the Cubs winning in 2016 really did break the world.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 12th, 2021, 12:55 pm
by Pretentious Hipster
Vaccine stats are a lot better here in Canada, but not nearly high enough in my view, but 4 provinces are already fully reopening. Not even 50% of them have both doses at that point, and it seems like everyone forgot that it takes 2 weeks for the vaccine to kick in. Not to mention that last summer there were also like no cases.

We are going to pay for it hard again.

I don't think ontario is ever going to reach 80% vaccinated either. The number has been stuck on 77-78% for one dose for so long.

I did see one guy on a gaming forum blaming Russia for the anti-vaxx movement, which definitely seems a bit much lol.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 12th, 2021, 3:48 pm
by Knaldskalle
Nothing to disagree with in the above posts (well, the Russia thing... maybe).

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 12th, 2021, 9:54 pm
by xianjiro
A neighbor had a very bad reaction to the first injection - some sort of allergy, but not sure what - so I get why he chose to skip the second. Can't say if that's a good or bad choice, but I understand his thinking.

I know some were simply scared off by reports of side effects with the second dose, but not sure how many of the 'only one dose' fit that criteria or if there are other reasons. I'm sure some just never got around to it. But in this case, it doesn't seem like a single dose of a two dose regimen will be problematic. Haven't seen anyone talking about that causing virus mutation or resistance. In other words, it's not like the problem with not finishing a round of antibiotics.

Does anyone have a sense of the possibility of the virus developing resistance to the current vaccines? I'm not really thinking about breakthrough infection. Can this virus mutate in a way to render the vaccines obsolete? In theory, since I know we haven't seen it in practice. I just don't understand the specific science of how these vaccines work.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 12th, 2021, 10:01 pm
by Pretentious Hipster
Out of curiousity did anyone else's tolerance level for bullshit views related to covid went way down? I usually don't care what people's views are when they are facebook friends, but so far I deleted three of them.

One was saying that we are under a dictatorship, and that the TEST ITSELF was dangerous because it touches a part of the brain responsible for hormone regulation.
One said forcing us to wear masks is like being in an abusive relationship.
The last one was simple, just a photo of an anti-mask protest (where there were American flags for some reason?)

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 13th, 2021, 12:42 am
by maxwelldeux
Gee Zeus Pho King Cry ST.

My wife's niece got married, recently, and is having her reception this upcoming weekend. My wife's family? Right-wing-crazy-Alex-Jones-is-a-legitimate-news-source types. My in-laws? Anti-vaxxers, apparently - Wife thought they'd been vaccinated, but misheard and apparently they're staunchly against them, despite both being trained medical professionals (one nurse, one PA). So guess who I get to spend all Saturday around? :circle: :circle: :circle:

The Delta etc. variants definitely scare me. I'm not buying the lack of CDC updates on masking, especially for vaccinated people. I'm still wearing a mask in public indoors (fully vaccinated here). I shit you not, I spent two hours trying to convince myself it was fine to go out for lunch by myself Sunday, but I couldn't take the risk. Small risk? Absolutely. Totally weird and mostly irrational line in the sand? I'd have no problems going out with my wife. The small risk/reward ratio just doesn't win out when I'm by myself for me, but it does when I'm with someone. It is what it is.

And yeah, @PH, my "tolerance level for bullshit views related to covid went way down". I hope I survive this weekend without inciting murder.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 13th, 2021, 1:27 am
by xianjiro
I think my tolerance of BS views went way down long before Covid. Probably related to 8 Nov 16, but just not sure if it was before or after. :think: I'm thinking before ...

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 13th, 2021, 7:06 am
by brokenface
xianjiro wrote: July 12th, 2021, 9:54 pm
Does anyone have a sense of the possibility of the virus developing resistance to the current vaccines? I'm not really thinking about breakthrough infection. Can this virus mutate in a way to render the vaccines obsolete? In theory, since I know we haven't seen it in practice. I just don't understand the specific science of how these vaccines work.
The first gen vaccines may not become completely obsolete but will likely become less effective. It's long been predicted that this may become like flu where we'll need to do booster shots each year that are targeted against new strain.

Most of the vaccines in use target the spike protein of the virus. I think the resistance will mostly be small changes to the spike which can be countered by small changes to the vaccine.

You could in theory get bigger changes but there is a limiting factor that the spike protein is key for how the virus attaches to cells and so is vital to the success of how the virus replicates. Change too much and the virus will become ineffective itself at spreading.

It's possible it finds a way but I suspect it will be more of a cat and mouse thing where the vaccines can keep getting modified to catch up with variants.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 13th, 2021, 8:30 pm
by xianjiro
brokenface wrote: July 13th, 2021, 7:06 am
xianjiro wrote: July 12th, 2021, 9:54 pm
Does anyone have a sense of the possibility of the virus developing resistance to the current vaccines? I'm not really thinking about breakthrough infection. Can this virus mutate in a way to render the vaccines obsolete? In theory, since I know we haven't seen it in practice. I just don't understand the specific science of how these vaccines work.
The first gen vaccines may not become completely obsolete but will likely become less effective. It's long been predicted that this may become like flu where we'll need to do booster shots each year that are targeted against new strain.

Most of the vaccines in use target the spike protein of the virus. I think the resistance will mostly be small changes to the spike which can be countered by small changes to the vaccine.

You could in theory get bigger changes but there is a limiting factor that the spike protein is key for how the virus attaches to cells and so is vital to the success of how the virus replicates. Change too much and the virus will become ineffective itself at spreading.

It's possible it finds a way but I suspect it will be more of a cat and mouse thing where the vaccines can keep getting modified to catch up with variants.
All makes perfect sense - thanks! :thumbsup:

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 14th, 2021, 7:33 pm
by Knaldskalle
Given that the vaccine I had was basically just a dose of mRNA, I don't think it should be a problem to produce a "mix" of various types of mRNA coding for a number of varieties of the spike protein, say a dozen or so? Given that many animals (snakes, scorpions etc.) use a "cocktail" of various venoms I don't see why we can't use a similar approach to our vaccine.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 14th, 2021, 8:53 pm
by brokenface
Knaldskalle wrote: July 14th, 2021, 7:33 pm Given that the vaccine I had was basically just a dose of mRNA, I don't think it should be a problem to produce a "mix" of various types of mRNA coding for a number of varieties of the spike protein, say a dozen or so? Given that many animals (snakes, scorpions etc.) use a "cocktail" of various venoms I don't see why we can't use a similar approach to our vaccine.
not sure about a dozen but certainly possible in theory to have something like this. The annual flu jabs are a cocktail which target 3 or 4 strains each year. I think both Moderna and Biontech developing multivalent versions.

I think there probably is a natural limit in how many different strains you could introduce at once without either overwhelming the immune system and/or reducing efficacy against each individual variant.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 17th, 2021, 4:22 pm
by Armoreska
There's open vaccinations here. If I disappear, you know what killed me xD
But I'm skipping this weekend because I need to go places since it's 35c in my room.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 11:42 am
by Armoreska
Damn it's still the same weather next week.
Does anyone know if the side effects can be bad enough that one should wait for cooler weather?

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 12:32 pm
by peeptoad
Armoreska wrote: July 21st, 2021, 11:42 am Damn it's still the same weather next week.
Does anyone know if the side effects can be bad enough that one should wait for cooler weather?
My experience I had a ~101 (38 C) fever for around 36 hours, but I just slept a lot and felt fine in around 48 hrs after the second dose. I had almost no side effects (maybe just mild fatigue) after the first dose. As long as you drink plenty of water and rest after the second, if you get side effects (some don't experience any), I would think you'd be okay even in hot weather... ?

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 3:09 pm
by joachimt
Same here. I hardly felt anything from the first dose. Had the second dose last Sunday. Had a fever and felt completely exhausted the whole next day. Slept a lot during the day and had a 10h straight sleep that night. Bit weak the next morning, but in the afternoon I had enough energy to get out again.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 3:15 pm
by OldAle1
Moderna vaccine here. I had just a little pain after the first shot, which lasted maybe a day. Second - more pain, and really tired the whole next day, and a little residual effect on the second full day. No fever. Drinking lots of water seems to help - a couple of people promoted that before I had my shots and I think it was useful.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 8:52 pm
by xianjiro
With Pfizer, I had some soreness after the first shot including lymph node pain, but I don't think temperature would have been a problem. On the contrary, warmer weather might loosen the muscles a bit more.

I was relatively fine the rest of the day after getting the second shot. The next morning I woke with a pronounced fever that lasted - I estimate - about 18 hours. So yeah, I think that might be unpleasant and yes, sleeping through as much of that as possible is helpful too. I can see why this might make someone hesitate, but it seems most fevers are gone one or two days after getting the shot.

When is cooler weather usually due? But even so, with less than 4% of Ukraine's population fully vaccinated, it's a choice between a couple days of feeling really lousy vs who knows how long or severe an actual case of Covid would be. Depending on what you're reading/seeing, I know some make it sound like the vaccine is risky - I won't deny there is always some risk with any medical treatment or intervention - but I thought the possible vaccine risks were much, much smaller (tiny) than that of getting a full-blown Covid infection.

Given the hostility between Ukraine and it's bigger neighbor to the north, I'm assuming your not going to get a Sputnik shot. Do you know which you are likely to get? I've no idea, for example, if the side effects are similar with the Sinovac jab.

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 21st, 2021, 8:59 pm
by hurluberlu
OldAle1 wrote: July 21st, 2021, 3:15 pm Moderna vaccine here. I had just a little pain after the first shot, which lasted maybe a day. Second - more pain, and really tired the whole next day, and a little residual effect on the second full day. No fever. Drinking lots of water seems to help - a couple of people promoted that before I had my shots and I think it was useful.
I had massive muscular pain for 24h the 2nd day after second shot of Moderna, then followed by light throat and head aches just to finish with big nasal congestion… so side effects last 4-5 days in total… never had a “flu” before ! :D

Seems totally random, a colleague stayed three days in bed and a friend just had a little fatigue, we have same age (also Moderna).

Re: Covid-19 Quarantine

Posted: July 22nd, 2021, 8:22 am
by Armoreska
xianjiro wrote: July 21st, 2021, 8:52 pm When is cooler weather usually due? But even so, with less than 4% of Ukraine's population fully vaccinated, it's a choice between a couple days of feeling really lousy vs who knows how long or severe an actual case of Covid would be. Depending on what you're reading/seeing, I know some make it sound like the vaccine is risky - I won't deny there is always some risk with any medical treatment or intervention - but I thought the possible vaccine risks were much, much smaller (tiny) than that of getting a full-blown Covid infection.

Given the hostility between Ukraine and it's bigger neighbor to the north, I'm assuming your not going to get a Sputnik shot. Do you know which you are likely to get? I've no idea, for example, if the side effects are similar with the Sinovac jab.
Cooler weather in 2 months but also today, tomorrow and probably the day of the shot as well.

Who knows how little chance of getting covid i have with wearing the faceshield almost every time + staying at home.

It's Biontech/Pfizer so that's a safer one than sPutink.