Covid-19 quarantine zone (Not just a worldwide Flu!)

[AdamH]

Didn't know you could ban somebody from posting in a subforum.

Yes, on phpBB, you can do a few things differently and make the settings specific for a section e.g. 1) Ban someone entirely so they can't read the section, 2) Ban someone from posting in a section but they can still read it and 3) Put someone on moderator approval for a section (meaning every post they make it that one section has to be approved to show up for members). There doesn't seem to be a way to ban someone from a specific thread but the section banning is certainly useful.

RE: the last sentence - maybe the Off Topic section needs a subsection for "Hot Button Topics" or something to that effect. If a thread starts getting testy, it gets moved there so a user can be moderated/banned/whatever while still allowing them to post about not eating baby goats or why curling is really the best sport ever.

Yes, that is an interesting idea. Contentious topics (such as COVID and political lounges) could go in there and others in the normal off-topic section. The only thing is that we wouldn't really want to encourage a section which causes arguments and complaints but I suppose that happens regardless of what we do.

[xianjiro]

Yes, on phpBB, you can do a few things differently and make the settings specific for a section e.g. 1) Ban someone entirely so they can't read the section, 2) Ban someone from posting in a section but they can still read it and 3) Put someone on moderator approval for a section (meaning every post they make it that one section has to be approved to show up for members). There doesn't seem to be a way to ban someone from a specific thread but the section banning is certainly useful.

RE: the last sentence - maybe the Off Topic section needs a subsection for "Hot Button Topics" or something to that effect. If a thread starts getting testy, it gets moved there so a user can be moderated/banned/whatever while still allowing them to post about not eating baby goats or why curling is really the best sport ever.

Yes, that is an interesting idea. Contentious topics (such as COVID and political lounges) could go in there and others in the normal off-topic section. The only thing is that we wouldn't really want to encourage a section which causes arguments and complaints but I suppose that happens regardless of what we do.

Well it sets up an interesting dynamic: now kids, play nice or we're moving this thread to the time out folder. Another option, call it the Moderated threads? But yeah, I agree about not encouraging, so calling it the Flame War room probably isn't the way to go.

[OldAle1]

COVID shouldn't be "contentious" though. It's not actually political, it's only being made so by far-right extremists like the one no longer posting on this thread. I hate to trot out this old chestnut, which I don't *always* believe is true, but it certainly applies here: reality has a liberal bias.

[RogerTheMovieManiac88]

I'm against cippenham being banned from posting in politically-oriented threads. I will not be posting in any of those threads from which he has been removed, as I am in favour of free expression and have never encountered him being nasty or abusive.

[AdamH]

I'm against cippenham being banned from posting in politically-oriented threads. I will not be posting in any of those threads from which he has been removed, as I am in favour of free expression and have never encountered him being nasty or abusive.

To be clear, Cippenham appears to have no complaints with the decision and directly told me afterwards that he is only interested in posting about films. Out of the last 300 posts in this thread, 100 were by Cippenham. When it comes to something like a pandemic, posts like his are quite harmful to the ongoing threat we are all experiencing and cross the line from having a different opinion into potentially causing damage.

It's easy for people to say they are in favour of free expression but there does come a time when posts are damaging to the forum and the community and actively put people off the forum.

[xianjiro]

Well, and let's be clear, in the history of this forum, there have been others who have been nasty and abusive. It isn't all about cipp.

edit: Should a user be allowed to post daily in the LGBTQ thread that all gays are pedophiles as long as they do it politely and nicely?

[Onderhond]

as I am in favour of free expression and have never encountered him being nasty or abusive.

Well yes, but he wasn't very responsive not receptive either. While I definitely wouldn't call him a troll, others sometimes referred to him as "a bot" and that actually sounded quite fair. He just kept posting contrarian articles and mantras and quickly jumped onto something else when proven wrong, only to return to the same thing days later. That's not proper discourse for a forum.

On the other hand, I hope the moderation goes both ways because other people here can be extremely random, panicky and crude when it comes to anything that remotely smells like "right-wing". I know the political situation in the US is a bit weird, but this is an international forum so it would be nice to see a little less of that paranoia too.

[AdamH]

as I am in favour of free expression and have never encountered him being nasty or abusive.

Well yes, but he wasn't very responsive not receptive either. While I definitely wouldn't call him a troll, others sometimes referred to him as "a bot" and that actually sounded quite fair. He just kept posting contrarian articles and mantras and quickly jumped onto something else when proven wrong, only to return to the same thing days later. That's not proper discourse for a forum.

On the other hand, I hope the moderation goes both ways because other people here can be extremely random, panicky and crude when it comes to anything that remotely smells like "right-wing". I know the political situation in the US is a bit weird, but this is an international forum so it would be nice to see a little less of that paranoia too.

Yes, Onderhond, your first paragraph sums up the situation well IMO. In terms of your second paragraph, we'd like to make a proper post about this soon but please do feel free to report posts that you think are out of line and we will try to respond in a better way to reports moving forward.

[Pretentious Hipster]

Yea I do make some toxic posts but I try to bring relevant points and tend to not repeat myself. Most importantly, I can apologize and my views can changed. Cipp just never listens and posts the same shit over and over.

[xianjiro]

Most importantly, I can apologize and my views can changed.

This is probably the most important part of group interaction - well, that and understanding which way the wind is blowing.

No one's asking for perfection or agreement, but some give and take can be quite nice.

[xianjiro]

as I am in favour of free expression and have never encountered him being nasty or abusive.

On the other hand, I hope the moderation goes both ways because other people here can be extremely random, panicky and crude when it comes to anything that remotely smells like "right-wing". I know the political situation in the US is a bit weird, but this is an international forum so it would be nice to see a little less of that paranoia too.

Well, after you've spent a decade watching people like you, people you call friends and loved ones, die because of the right's viral denial, apathy, and malevolence THEN spent another decade defending your right to things like employment, housing, free expression, the vote (you know, the rights enjoyed by other citizens) let alone the right to marry, visit your loved one in the hospital and make healthcare decisions, the right to inherit, etc, THEN you can lecture me on the appropriate way to respond to other ideas you think are crazy put forth by your persecutors and their admirers.

My reactions are real and honest and tied entirely to my closely held personal beliefs. Again, after a couple decades under attack we'll see just how magnanimous you can be. In the meantime, maybe a little empathy? After all, I was trying to engage respectfully with a certain right-winger long before came on the seen.

[Pretentious Hipster]

[OldAle1]

^^^ And that right there is why many of us are "panicky" about the right - at least in the USA. These people either don't understand or don't care at all about science and health, they just want to appeal to the most ignorant and angry members of their base, and they don't seem to care in the least that they are quite literally destroying this country and it's standing in the rest of the world - perhaps permanently. Nobody at all on the left - nobody in power certainly - in the US is as crazy and willing to disregard human life, the economy, the culture, everything as these assholes. As bad as the Republican Party was between Nixon and Bush 2, it still had some elements of sanity to it and a minimal regard for the safety and health of the country, the national interest. No longer, it's every man for himself and protect the DOW and who cares about your kids - unless they're unborn.

[Lammetje]

Of course! How did I not think of this before? We all just need to get COVID-19 and get over it. Mike Parson for President!!!

[xianjiro]

Of course! How did I not think of this before? We all just need to get COVID-19 and get over it. Mike Parson for President!!!

"... and get over it." Cute, especially given the implications. (Some non-native users of English might not know in slang it also means "and stop worrying/thinking about it." I'm not including you in that group Lammetje, it just adds an interesting dimension to the post.)

Anyway, when we get down to it, that's how this game is played: we get a virus, get sick, our body learns to fight it, and Bob's your uncle, next time one meets the virus strain one doesn't usually get as sick.Even scientists studying the immune system don't yet know all the ins-and-outs of how this response works since it varies person to person, pathogen to pathogen.

Chances are good that the first round of vaccines won't be the most effect in terms of all widely used vaccines. I won't be surprised if we read about 70% effectiveness or something. (Not promising that, just saying it's not uncommon.) It will take some tweaking of the vaccine to get it work better and then there's the issue of viral mutation.

If the vaccine is antibody focused, it's usefulness will be shorter term. Might be enough to buy time and slow it down, but like seasonal flu vaccines, it will need to be redone at regular intervals. (Now I'm starting to wonder what part of the immune response the seasonal flu vaccine actually targets.)

In some ways, getting sick and recovering, that classic, time-tested approach to fighting disease is probably a really good approach but the downside is the 'collateral damage'' all those people who lose the fight because their immune system isn't up to the task (and that doesn't even include the set of folks who have compromised immune systems due to HIV, cancer treatment, transplant therapy, etc)

With the 1918 flu, the mortality rate was 2.5% and that can be pretty costly on many different fronts. Even if one is heartlessly dispassionate about the loss of life, those people worked in the economy and caring for the sick (especially in the US today) is an expensive proposition. Also that much death is destabalising to a society. And that 2.5% isn't a guarantee. It isn't even a guideline. Many, many unknowns.

So yes, there's a part of me that agrees "We all just need to get COVID-19 and get over it."

[mightysparks]

Today it was announced that government support for businesses and the unemployed will be extended until December (originally set to end in September). But unemployment payments will be reduced. Hopefully the extension applies to student payments too..

because my business employs mostly casuals we weren’t able to qualify for jobkeeper, which gave businesses $1500 per staff per fortnight. But unemployment/student allowance was doubled from $550 to $1100 a fortnight since April I think. It’s been pretty great because I’ve been able to take less work (my job causes my RSI to flare up and I also hate my job), and it took me from having just enough money to get by to being able to save bucketloads. I think it will be difficult to keep people happy and complacent when they reduce it back to the normal rate.

[xianjiro]

so who changed the thread title?

[PeacefulAnarchy]

so who changed the thread title?

Reality.

[matthewscott8]

Covid got a bit personal for me in that my mum had a test for cancer in February and did't get the results until mid July due to the labs having been repurposed for covid testing. And the test said she has cancer so, cancer got a 4 month headstart on her. It's very frustrating because I was angry about the lack of government action as early as late January, and if they'd done something, even just an events ban and a 2 week travel quarantine, things could be looking very different for my family right now.

[matthewscott8]

Of course! How did I not think of this before? We all just need to get COVID-19 and get over it. Mike Parson for President!!!

"... and get over it." Cute, especially given the implications. (Some non-native users of English might not know in slang it also means "and stop worrying/thinking about it." I'm not including you in that group Lammetje, it just adds an interesting dimension to the post.)

Anyway, when we get down to it, that's how this game is played: we get a virus, get sick, our body learns to fight it, and Bob's your uncle, next time one meets the virus strain one doesn't usually get as sick.Even scientists studying the immune system don't yet know all the ins-and-outs of how this response works since it varies person to person, pathogen to pathogen.

Chances are good that the first round of vaccines won't be the most effect in terms of all widely used vaccines. I won't be surprised if we read about 70% effectiveness or something. (Not promising that, just saying it's not uncommon.) It will take some tweaking of the vaccine to get it work better and then there's the issue of viral mutation.

If the vaccine is antibody focused, it's usefulness will be shorter term. Might be enough to buy time and slow it down, but like seasonal flu vaccines, it will need to be redone at regular intervals. (Now I'm starting to wonder what part of the immune response the seasonal flu vaccine actually targets.)

In some ways, getting sick and recovering, that classic, time-tested approach to fighting disease is probably a really good approach but the downside is the 'collateral damage'' all those people who lose the fight because their immune system isn't up to the task (and that doesn't even include the set of folks who have compromised immune systems due to HIV, cancer treatment, transplant therapy, etc)

With the 1918 flu, the mortality rate was 2.5% and that can be pretty costly on many different fronts. Even if one is heartlessly dispassionate about the loss of life, those people worked in the economy and caring for the sick (especially in the US today) is an expensive proposition. Also that much death is destabalising to a society. And that 2.5% isn't a guarantee. It isn't even a guideline. Many, many unknowns.

So yes, there's a part of me that agrees "We all just need to get COVID-19 and get over it."

some of these statements however are linked. If the vaccines don't provide long lasting immunity, there's a massively increased chance that catching it doesn't give you long term immunity.

Also we don't know at all what the long term health effects are. When people get shingles it's usually the same infection they had when they were a child, that's been sat in their body all that time in reservoir. We don't know if COVID virus reservoirs. What if we find out next year that it causes infertility. What if like zika we find out after 9 months that children are getting born with microcephaly

My point is essentially this: do not fuck around with new viruses.

[xianjiro]

agreed and really sorry to hear about your mum - wishing you both the best in dealing with the diagnosis and however she decides to respond.

[prodigalgodson]

Covid got a bit personal for me in that my mum had a test for cancer in February and did't get the results until mid July due to the labs having been repurposed for covid testing. And the test said she has cancer so, cancer got a 4 month headstart on her. It's very frustrating because I was angry about the lack of government action as early as late January, and if they'd done something, even just an events ban and a 2 week travel quarantine, things could be looking very different for my family right now.

So sorry to hear that Matthew!

[xianjiro]

So, everyone seeing someone's virus-related change of heart in the headlines? Wonder if his base will continue to be so anti-mask now that their fearful leader says doing so is 'patriotic'. Let's hope!

[brokenface]

So, everyone seeing someone's virus-related change of heart in the headlines? Wonder if his base will continue to be so anti-mask now that their fearful leader says doing so is 'patriotic'. Let's hope!

I'm sure it'll last as long as Trump's changes of heart usually do..If his polls don't go up, he'll throw a strop and start the deny & blame game again

[xianjiro]

So, everyone seeing someone's virus-related change of heart in the headlines? Wonder if his base will continue to be so anti-mask now that their fearful leader says doing so is 'patriotic'. Let's hope!

I'm sure it'll last as long as Trump's changes of heart usually do..If his polls don't go up, he'll throw a strop and start the deny & blame game again

no doubt

[shugs]

Well, my hay fever (I hope) started acting up. These are going to be an interesting 2-3 months.

[xianjiro]

Well, hate to say it, but the Great Experiment doesn't seem to be much of a success from where I'm sitting. What were the promises about summer coming?

It's starting to feel like this is going to be one of those 'power through' situations: if the choice is locking everyone (on the planet) down until we have a good vaccine, then that's not much of an option. And while I hate to denigrate their valiant efforts, contact tracing is, like so much these days, pretty much a joke in the US lacking resources and in some jurisdictions ignored completely. Most numbers suggest widespread community transmission around the planet - and by "widespread" I'm talking only about how many cases can't be traced even when the effort is made.

With 16.4 million cases and only 7.7 billion (estimate via census.gov) people on the planet -- well, it's looking like we've got a long road ahead of us. Just glad that health care system has been able to catch up and get people through the rough patches. Let's hope they are up for the long road ahead.

It seems the real question is: how do we continue on with the needed routine of daily life while living with CoV-19? It's pretty clear the virus doesn't respect such designations as "essential worker" nor does it seem to matter, from a layperson's point of view, which method is employed: cases continue unabated in Florida, Texas, and California and still we've a long road ahead of us.

PS: I'm wondering if "person of the year" will turn out to be a micro-organism in 2020

[blocho]

This was an interesting read:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ic/614569/

Perhaps some of the Canadians here can comment on whether this sounds accurate.

[burneyfan]

PS: I'm wondering if "person of the year" will turn out to be a micro-organism in 2020

Time's Person of the Year? It already was a malignant micro-organism in 2016.

[Pretentious Hipster]

[OldAle1]

This is one of the best short distillations of the Randian cultism of total libertarian self-centered behavior that has completely overtaken the Republican party - and a large percentage of American citizens - over the past few decades, without ever mentioning Rand. Fuck you, I want to be rich, you can all die.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/27/opin ... e=Homepage

[Pretentious Hipster]

Is this NYT trying to make up for it after giving people like Tom Cotton a platform and also showing opinions that Modi's fascist attack and the sanctions on Venezuela as good things?

[Onderhond]

It's just an opinion piece. One opinion of one man, shouldn't even be part of newspapers.

[OldAle1]

Is this NYT trying to make up for it after giving people like Tom Cotton a platform and also showing opinions that Modi's fascist attack and the sanctions on Venezuela as good things?

Well, Krugman's been there a long time. And he's always been much further to the left than the average Times pundit - or American citizen, for that matter. The NYT's both-sidesism would be more acceptable I think if we had a genuine left-wing, or even moderately left-wing press that had anything like the power of the right-wing press. Nobody fucking reads The Nation, I doubt it had at it's peak 1/5th the readership of The National Review or 1/25th the circulation of the Wall Street Journal. Of course that's ancient history - what are the page views of Daily Kos vs Breitbart, that'd be more useful in the current moment; how many people are looking at left-of-center Facebook sources vs right-of-center (whatever the center actually is)? But at any rate, without any real nationally-known news sources on the left, we are left with the NYT and WAPO as the papers of record. Both did so much to bring down Nixon less than 50 years ago, but now at best you get a Krugman or two. And that shows just as much as Krugman's column how powerful the right-wing brainwashing has been in the country as a whole.

[Pretentious Hipster]

https://indianexpress.com/article/coron ... y-6526809/

[xianjiro]

An interesting solution to problems faced by businesses stuck between the rock of meeting expenses and the hard place of dealing with CoV-19. Clearly, just reopening the economy hasn't worked as promised: we need more creative solutions like converting streets (and maybe those overly large parking lots that front the omnipresent strip retail establishments though granted, without shade, they are just too hot, hot, hot in many, many places) into pedestrian zones and outdoor eating/drinking venues.

https://www.oregonlive.com/business/202 ... l-run.html

[peeptoad]

Just had a nasal swab done and it wasn't so bad... assuming I did it correctly.

[Knaldskalle]

Evidence starting to pop up that supports what we've been saying all along:

Young people are infecting older family members in shared homes

So it's perfectly safe to reopen schools and send kids there. It's not safe to let the kids out of school again and come back home. I guess the answer is to convert all schools to boarding schools. Shouldn't take much time, two weeks at most, and with a bit of luck it won't cost a penny.

[AdamH]

Evidence starting to pop up that supports what we've been saying all along:

Young people are infecting older family members in shared homes

So it's perfectly safe to reopen schools and send kids there. It's not safe to let the kids out of school again and come back home. I guess the answer is to convert all schools to boarding schools. Shouldn't take much time, two weeks at most, and with a bit of luck it won't cost a penny.

Yeah, that's seemed so obvious for months. I'm not sure why some people didn't get it.

[brokenface]

Just had a nasal swab done and it wasn't so bad... assuming I did it correctly.

I didn't find it painful as such but it's a really unpleasant feeling in a spot where you don't normally feel anything or are really aware exists I could sense it there for about 24hrs afterwards.