Welcome to the ICM Forum. If you have an account but have trouble logging in, or have other questions, see THIS THREAD.
Podcast: Talking Images (Episode 11 released July 24th)
Polls: 0 Official Lists (Results), 1960 (Aug 9th), Romance (Aug 28th)
Challenges: German/Austrian/Swiss, <400, 1970s
Film of the Week: Sibiriada, September nominations (Aug 28th)
World Cup S4: Match 2G: Russia vs Portugal (Aug 6th), Match 2H: India vs Cuba (Aug 16th), QF Preparation (Aug 25th)

Covid-19 quarantine zone (Not just a worldwide Flu!)

Post Reply

Got it?

Yeah, I got it and feel HORRIBLE.
0
No votes
Yes, I got it, but am doing okay.
1
2%
Yes, I had it but have recovered.
1
2%
I think I had it, but not sure.
5
8%
No, still waiting.
44
72%
No, I know I won't get it. Ever.
7
11%
What are we talking about? I live under a rock.
3
5%
 
Total votes: 61

Cippenham
Donator
Posts: 13341
Joined: May 09, 2011
Location: Dorset England
Contact:

Re: Covid-19 or Worldwide Flu

#1681

Post by Cippenham » July 17th, 2020, 5:03 am

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... ronavirus/

I don’t think we are getting any real second wave here as many people already had it without knowing it.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 20154294v1

User avatar
sebby
Posts: 6394
Joined: Jul 04, 2011
Contact:

#1682

Post by sebby » July 17th, 2020, 8:41 am

Former educator happy to be out of the trade now. Infected children will fill up schools this year. Many teachers and staff will get sick. Most will survive. But many will die. (Remember that in the US, most schools are populated with a healthy % of fat teachers. And old teachers). This is a mass trauma, especially in super-fucked states like Florida, that we can see coming from a mile away. And no one will stop it. The right thing to do, which I don't think will happen, is to allow every teacher over 45 and/or with a health condition to opt out of classroom teaching until this thing blows over while still receiving full pay and benefits. In another country I could see such a thing happening. In America, no. They will guilt the educators into working -- and they will goto work bc that's in the nature of the average educator -- and then emotionlessly tally the body count of the dead, occasionally stamping the name of a career educator on a bench in a park somewhere.

Cippenham
Donator
Posts: 13341
Joined: May 09, 2011
Location: Dorset England
Contact:

#1683

Post by Cippenham » July 17th, 2020, 9:45 am

Many teachers will not die, nearly all deaths are amongst old people

User avatar
sebby
Posts: 6394
Joined: Jul 04, 2011
Contact:

#1684

Post by sebby » July 17th, 2020, 10:26 am

The average age for American teachers is 40-something. The average American 40-something is not in great health. This is even more true in some of the most heavily impacted states right now, like Georgia and Florida. The math is easy if you open your eyes to look at the numbers.

User avatar
Armoreska
Posts: 11955
Joined: Nov 01, 2012
Location: Ukraine, former Free Territory
Contact:

#1685

Post by Armoreska » July 17th, 2020, 12:00 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
July 16th, 2020, 6:05 pm
Lammetje wrote:
July 16th, 2020, 6:05 pm
Will you guys please stop saying bad things about these cute, fluffy animals? :'(
We could switch to "lemmings". Any problem with lemmings?
Lemmings are pretty cute too.
https://www.britannica.com/story/do-lem ... ss-suicide

You can use "virus", "zombies", "cultists", "mob", "biowaste", conformists, "kool-aid drinkers".
Image
currently working towards a vegan/low waste world + thru such film lists (besides TV): ANARCHISTS, 2010s bests, RW Fassbinder, Yasujiro Ozu, Eric Rohmer, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, 17+ sci-fi lists on watchlist, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo

Cippenham
Donator
Posts: 13341
Joined: May 09, 2011
Location: Dorset England
Contact:

#1686

Post by Cippenham » July 17th, 2020, 1:24 pm

If you are under 65 you are more likely to die in a car crash than this virus

User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 4555
Joined: Dec 23, 2012
Contact:

#1687

Post by Onderhond » July 17th, 2020, 1:27 pm

Cippenham wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 1:24 pm
If you are under 65 you are more likely to die in a car crash than this virus
Not when everyone has to stay inside.

User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 4555
Joined: Dec 23, 2012
Contact:

#1688

Post by Onderhond » July 17th, 2020, 2:41 pm

Second wave incoming in Belgium btw.

User avatar
Knaldskalle
Moderator
Posts: 9867
Joined: May 09, 2011
Location: New Mexico, Trumpistan
Contact:

#1689

Post by Knaldskalle » July 17th, 2020, 4:25 pm

"Our" school (a small not-for-profit charter school whose Governing Board I'm on) has 1 teacher who has asked to do online teaching only due to health concerns. The school is trying to get a substitute to fill that gap but there's a shortage of teachers here in the middle of nowhere (to the extent that the school district is hiring Philipino teachers). So "we" are trying to do right by our teachers, but we're facing budget cuts on top of all this, so it's not as easy as it should be.

New Mexico is currently working on a hybrid model only (2 days in person teaching, 3 days online with all classes split into 2 alternating groups), but word is that the Governor will make some decision on this today, whether or not to go forward.

And Sebby is right, being a teacher in the US means you're low income and low income people have less access to health care and healthy food, so often suffer all kinds of (entirely avoidable) ailments that in this case may end up meaning that they will die if they catch COVID-19. We already have the case of Kimberly Byrd from Arizona who died after teaching summer school, despite everyone wearing masks and social distancing.

I'm personally torn on whether or not to send my kids back to school come August. One the one hand I really really want them out of the house a bit (5 months of staying home takes a toll), but I really don't want to send them into a situation that's not safe for everyone involved. And I don't think the schools are quite ready for this, especially with the lack of guidance and "to be determined" issues 5 weeks before school starts. Everyone is behind the curve on this, it seems.
ImageImageImageImage

Please don't hurt yourself, talk to someone.

blocho
Donator
Posts: 3377
Joined: Jul 20, 2014
Contact:

#1690

Post by blocho » July 17th, 2020, 5:46 pm

Cippenham wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 9:45 am
Many teachers will not die, nearly all deaths are amongst old people
A month or two ago, I wrote in this thread that you are not a troll, just someone whose approach to epistemology puzzles me. I want to continue believing that, so I'm holding back my anger and instead I will suggest that you don't realize how insulting your statement sounds. I write "sounds" rather than "is" because, again, I'm presuming you intended something different from the meaning I am taking from it. Perhaps you intended your statement to mean, "Some teachers will die, but not many." And there's an argument to be made about the cumulative effects for society of some/many teachers dying versus children learning from home rather than in school. There's no possible argument about the effects for those dead teachers because those teachers are going to be fucking dead. But public policy decisions sometimes need a focus on costs and benefits.

What your statement sounds like is: "No teachers will die. Or not enough to matter." I'm sure you can argue about what constitutes "many teachers," but ultimately I don't really care. Seventy-four Department of Education employees in New York City died by the end of April (I'm sure several more have since). Behind each death lies immense human sadness and tragedy. I don't care to parse whether that number constitutes "many teachers" or "some teachers" or "a small percentage of teachers." Every single death was too many. Most of them would have been prevented if our mayor and governor had acted with probity and caution.

I have many friends and former colleagues among New York City teachers. There are several teachers here on the forum. I can't speak for other countries, but in the United States teachers as a whole are not well paid. They work very difficult jobs, doing perhaps the most essential work that exists in civil service. All of these teachers have to make a decision soon. They have to decide between their own safety and that of their family, their commitment to their students, and their ability to earn an income. It is an impossible decision. I feel empathy and compassion for the teachers on the forum here and my teacher friends in New York. But I don't need to know these people to feel empathy for teachers. I don't need to be a former teacher to feel empathy for teachers. I just need to be a halfway decent person.

If you want to argue, Cipp, that society as a whole will gain more than it will lose by having schools open, go for it. But maybe you could do it with some small measure of sympathy. Maybe you could it in a constructive manner that looks for solutions without minimizing mass death. Maybe you could do it without sounding like a troll.

User avatar
Pretentious Hipster
Donator
Posts: 20305
Joined: Oct 24, 2011
Contact:

#1691

Post by Pretentious Hipster » July 17th, 2020, 6:15 pm

You guys are aware that he doesn't listen right? I did own him with facts and logic against his smooth brain statements before, and all he does is not respond, and then post his same brainlet take a few hours later.

People might think I'm evil for being against reform, but I think at this point cipp is the evil one in the forum.

blocho
Donator
Posts: 3377
Joined: Jul 20, 2014
Contact:

#1692

Post by blocho » July 17th, 2020, 6:18 pm

Pretentious Hipster wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 6:15 pm
You guys are aware that he doesn't listen right? I did own him with facts and logic against his smooth brain statements before, and all he does is not respond, and then post his same brainlet take a few hours later.
I know. I myself have posted before encouraging people not to engage with him. I couldn't help myself. Shame on me.

Cippenham
Donator
Posts: 13341
Joined: May 09, 2011
Location: Dorset England
Contact:

#1693

Post by Cippenham » July 17th, 2020, 6:47 pm

blocho wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 5:46 pm
Cippenham wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 9:45 am
Many teachers will not die, nearly all deaths are amongst old people
A month or two ago, I wrote in this thread that you are not a troll, just someone whose approach to epistemology puzzles me. I want to continue believing that, so I'm holding back my anger and instead I will suggest that you don't realize how insulting your statement sounds. I write "sounds" rather than "is" because, again, I'm presuming you intended something different from the meaning I am taking from it. Perhaps you intended your statement to mean, "Some teachers will die, but not many." And there's an argument to be made about the cumulative effects for society of some/many teachers dying versus children learning from home rather than in school. There's no possible argument about the effects for those dead teachers because those teachers are going to be fucking dead. But public policy decisions sometimes need a focus on costs and benefits.

What your statement sounds like is: "No teachers will die. Or not enough to matter." I'm sure you can argue about what constitutes "many teachers," but ultimately I don't really care. Seventy-four Department of Education employees in New York City died by the end of April (I'm sure several more have since). Behind each death lies immense human sadness and tragedy. I don't care to parse whether that number constitutes "many teachers" or "some teachers" or "a small percentage of teachers." Every single death was too many. Most of them would have been prevented if our mayor and governor had acted with probity and caution.

I have many friends and former colleagues among New York City teachers. There are several teachers here on the forum. I can't speak for other countries, but in the United States teachers as a whole are not well paid. They work very difficult jobs, doing perhaps the most essential work that exists in civil service. All of these teachers have to make a decision soon. They have to decide between their own safety and that of their family, their commitment to their students, and their ability to earn an income. It is an impossible decision. I feel empathy and compassion for the teachers on the forum here and my teacher friends in New York. But I don't need to know these people to feel empathy for teachers. I don't need to be a former teacher to feel empathy for teachers. I just need to be a halfway decent person.

If you want to argue, Cipp, that society as a whole will gain more than it will lose by having schools open, go for it. But maybe you could do it with some small measure of sympathy. Maybe you could it in a constructive manner that looks for solutions without minimizing mass death. Maybe you could do it without sounding like a troll.
Not at all I am looking at stats to show most Covid deaths are among old people. The paper below includes a survey that shows the actual risk compared with what people believe. I am sympathetic to individuals of course.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w27494.pdf

Cippenham
Donator
Posts: 13341
Joined: May 09, 2011
Location: Dorset England
Contact:

#1694

Post by Cippenham » July 17th, 2020, 6:53 pm

Pretentious Hipster wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 6:15 pm
You guys are aware that he doesn't listen right? I did own him with facts and logic against his smooth brain statements before, and all he does is not respond, and then post his same brainlet take a few hours later.

People might think I'm evil for being against reform, but I think at this point cipp is the evil one in the forum.
That is harsh and wrong, the fact is this virus is mainly a threat to the ill and old so not everyone needs to be lockdown especially if it is on decline in your country. Also the health and financial costs from lockdown are worse than benefits.

Cippenham
Donator
Posts: 13341
Joined: May 09, 2011
Location: Dorset England
Contact:

#1695

Post by Cippenham » July 17th, 2020, 6:56 pm

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/why-no-on ... l-anomaly/

Our death figures are wrong so if you test positive for COVID and next day get killed by a bus they put your reason for death as COVID 🤔

AdamH
Site Admin
Posts: 12444
Joined: May 05, 2011
Contact:

#1696

Post by AdamH » July 17th, 2020, 7:01 pm

We don't do a lot of moderation on here as there is usually very little need to intervene but we're not going to continue to tolerate these types of posts when it comes to an issue as serious as COVID-19. Spreading theories about ice ages etc. is one thing but posting mistruths about COVID-19 is much more harmful.

Cippenham
Donator
Posts: 13341
Joined: May 09, 2011
Location: Dorset England
Contact:

#1697

Post by Cippenham » July 17th, 2020, 7:03 pm

Bear in mind I have a Mild form of autism called aspbergers at one point so Sometimes it’s hard to listen , but great at attention to detail are features. I am sorry but don’t mean to offend anyone. But I can listen sometimes. It helped with film watching and working on long lists of films or books , I always liked statistics and lists. . I am not naturally sympathetic but can try.

Cippenham
Donator
Posts: 13341
Joined: May 09, 2011
Location: Dorset England
Contact:

#1698

Post by Cippenham » July 17th, 2020, 7:05 pm

I am prepared to back up what I say with stats but on balance will stick mainly to film comments and post here much more rarely if that is ok

User avatar
sebby
Posts: 6394
Joined: Jul 04, 2011
Contact:

#1699

Post by sebby » July 17th, 2020, 10:22 pm

Cippenham wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 1:24 pm
If you are under 65 you are more likely to die in a car crash than this virus
Let's take a look at this ridiculous statement lacking context and nuance.

In the US, About 102 people per day die in car crashes. Of those, 84 are under 65.

The US is under reporting COVID deaths, but conservatively speaking there have been about 1000 deaths per day on average due to COVID since the outbreak began. 19% of COVID deaths in the US are persons under 65. Let's do some simple math: 1000 x 19% = 190. 190 is more than double 84. A significant difference.

Another way to look at it. Overall car accident fatality rate is 12/100,000. COVID fatality rate for people under 65 is a little over 50/100,000.

And finally. About 30,000 car accident deaths in the US for persons under 65 per year. Number of people under 65 who have died from COVID in the last 3 and a half months? Roughly 27,000.

You have to do some real spin to make a statement like yours and have it be anywhere close to factually correct. Perhaps you are only looking through a UK-tinted lens. In that case, let's see the UK-specific numbers. About 1200 deaths this month due to COVID. About 175 persons under 65. How many car accident deaths? The UK averages about 155 per month. So one can estimate 70-80 since the start of July. If the death rate by age group is similar to that of the US that's 55-65 that are under 65 years old. So no, in the UK it is also not more likely to die in a car accident than from COVID if you are under 65. If you are under 40, yes, but if someone has to take the number you stated and chop it down by 40% to make it accurate, there's a problem there.

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7770
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#1700

Post by xianjiro » July 18th, 2020, 4:25 am

sebby wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 8:41 am
Former educator happy to be out of the trade now. Infected children will fill up schools this year. Many teachers and staff will get sick. Most will survive. But many will die. (Remember that in the US, most schools are populated with a healthy % of fat teachers. And old teachers). This is a mass trauma, especially in super-fucked states like Florida, that we can see coming from a mile away. And no one will stop it. The right thing to do, which I don't think will happen, is to allow every teacher over 45 and/or with a health condition to opt out of classroom teaching until this thing blows over while still receiving full pay and benefits. In another country I could see such a thing happening. In America, no. They will guilt the educators into working -- and they will goto work bc that's in the nature of the average educator -- and then emotionlessly tally the body count of the dead, occasionally stamping the name of a career educator on a bench in a park somewhere.
I can see DeVos and her state henchmen drawing up blacklists and working to have teaching credentials pulled - these people want obedience or blood followed by crocodile tears at the Wall of Fallen Heroes at Dept of dEaD

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7770
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#1701

Post by xianjiro » July 18th, 2020, 5:01 am

blocho wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 5:46 pm
Cippenham wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 9:45 am
Many teachers will not die, nearly all deaths are amongst old people
A month or two ago, I wrote in this thread that you are not a troll, just someone whose approach to epistemology puzzles me. I want to continue believing that, so I'm holding back my anger and instead I will suggest that you don't realize how insulting your statement sounds. I write "sounds" rather than "is" because, again, I'm presuming you intended something different from the meaning I am taking from it.
How many times are the rest of you going to give the troll the benefit of the doubt? I reached my tipping point after he blamed the deaths in Paradise, California and subsequent wildfires in the state on "poor forest management" and "tree huggers" and having nothing to do with climate change. Hmmm, if it was the state's poor forest management, then why did PG&E plead guilty on 84 counts of manslaughter AND declare bankruptcy projecting liabilities of 30 BILLION FUCKING DOLLARS and then follow that with last year's rolling blackouts in areas where they hadn't been able to clear the brush from under their transmission lines?

The truth is people like this DON'T care. He's a political zealot in love with conspiracy theories and he's only worried that his men in DC, #10, Westminster, and Alvorada won't be able to retain power. The cost of that power is meaningless. Give him Brexit or give him blood in the streets. His thoughts in yet another thread.

It's called collateral damage.

Now it's who cares if old people die.

If only the rest of us could have troll-free discussions ... but no one with power to do anything on this forum is willing or there isn't enough collective will.

OLD LIVES MATTER

DEFUND THE TROLL

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
sebby
Posts: 6394
Joined: Jul 04, 2011
Contact:

#1702

Post by sebby » July 18th, 2020, 5:07 am

xianjiro wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 4:25 am
sebby wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 8:41 am
Former educator happy to be out of the trade now. Infected children will fill up schools this year. Many teachers and staff will get sick. Most will survive. But many will die. (Remember that in the US, most schools are populated with a healthy % of fat teachers. And old teachers). This is a mass trauma, especially in super-fucked states like Florida, that we can see coming from a mile away. And no one will stop it. The right thing to do, which I don't think will happen, is to allow every teacher over 45 and/or with a health condition to opt out of classroom teaching until this thing blows over while still receiving full pay and benefits. In another country I could see such a thing happening. In America, no. They will guilt the educators into working -- and they will goto work bc that's in the nature of the average educator -- and then emotionlessly tally the body count of the dead, occasionally stamping the name of a career educator on a bench in a park somewhere.
I can see DeVos and her state henchmen drawing up blacklists and working to have teaching credentials pulled - these people want obedience or blood followed by crocodile tears at the Wall of Fallen Heroes at Dept of dEaD
Devos and her brother make Trump and his family almost seem like decent humans.

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7770
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#1703

Post by xianjiro » July 18th, 2020, 5:09 am

sebby wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 5:07 am
xianjiro wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 4:25 am
sebby wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 8:41 am
Former educator happy to be out of the trade now. Infected children will fill up schools this year. Many teachers and staff will get sick. Most will survive. But many will die. (Remember that in the US, most schools are populated with a healthy % of fat teachers. And old teachers). This is a mass trauma, especially in super-fucked states like Florida, that we can see coming from a mile away. And no one will stop it. The right thing to do, which I don't think will happen, is to allow every teacher over 45 and/or with a health condition to opt out of classroom teaching until this thing blows over while still receiving full pay and benefits. In another country I could see such a thing happening. In America, no. They will guilt the educators into working -- and they will goto work bc that's in the nature of the average educator -- and then emotionlessly tally the body count of the dead, occasionally stamping the name of a career educator on a bench in a park somewhere.
I can see DeVos and her state henchmen drawing up blacklists and working to have teaching credentials pulled - these people want obedience or blood followed by crocodile tears at the Wall of Fallen Heroes at Dept of dEaD
Devos and her brother make Trump and his family almost seem like decent humans.
just wait until I make it over to the running riot 4 race thread - you know what's got up my ass if you've read the news today and where that's going to go

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

blocho
Donator
Posts: 3377
Joined: Jul 20, 2014
Contact:

#1704

Post by blocho » July 18th, 2020, 5:19 am

xianjiro wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 5:01 am
blocho wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 5:46 pm
Cippenham wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 9:45 am
Many teachers will not die, nearly all deaths are amongst old people
A month or two ago, I wrote in this thread that you are not a troll, just someone whose approach to epistemology puzzles me. I want to continue believing that, so I'm holding back my anger and instead I will suggest that you don't realize how insulting your statement sounds. I write "sounds" rather than "is" because, again, I'm presuming you intended something different from the meaning I am taking from it.
How many times are the rest of you going to give the troll the benefit of the doubt?
What you write is fair. I certainly don't begrudge anyone who thinks of him as a troll because I get that feeling a lot too. I'm just trying to err on the side of being less accusatory because I've been struggling a lot with my anger recently. Being angry is very justified these days, but it doesn't make me feel good, and I'm trying to channel my feelings more towards thoughtful action than impulsive anger.

Anyway, the main point is that Cipp has agreed to stay away from these discussions. And I hope that's for everyone's benefit, including his own. So let's get this thread back to where it was for the first couple of months: Concerned people sharing their stories, worries, and ideas. I think this has mostly been a supportive place, even when (Cipp aside) we disagree.

blocho
Donator
Posts: 3377
Joined: Jul 20, 2014
Contact:

#1705

Post by blocho » July 18th, 2020, 5:22 am

xianjiro wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 5:09 am
just wait until I make it over to the running riot 4 race thread - you know what's got up my ass if you've read the news today and where that's going to go
Yeah, wow. I now understand what you meant when you said that you had seen enough police brutality videos. I've been very focused on New York, plus Portland seems to have only punctured the national media in the past 24 hours. Now I have a glimmer of what's happening there. But I'll save this discussion for that other thread.

User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 24747
Joined: May 08, 2011
Contact:

#1706

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » July 18th, 2020, 5:47 am

xianjiro wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 5:01 am
If only the rest of us could have troll-free discussions ... but no one with power to do anything on this forum is willing or there isn't enough collective will.
This is fake news.

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7770
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#1707

Post by xianjiro » July 18th, 2020, 5:59 am

blocho wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 5:19 am
xianjiro wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 5:01 am
blocho wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 5:46 pm


A month or two ago, I wrote in this thread that you are not a troll, just someone whose approach to epistemology puzzles me. I want to continue believing that, so I'm holding back my anger and instead I will suggest that you don't realize how insulting your statement sounds. I write "sounds" rather than "is" because, again, I'm presuming you intended something different from the meaning I am taking from it.
How many times are the rest of you going to give the troll the benefit of the doubt?
What you write is fair. I certainly don't begrudge anyone who thinks of him as a troll because I get that feeling a lot too. I'm just trying to err on the side of being less accusatory because I've been struggling a lot with my anger recently. Being angry is very justified these days, but it doesn't make me feel good, and I'm trying to channel my feelings more towards thoughtful action than impulsive anger.

Anyway, the main point is that Cipp has agreed to stay away from these discussions. And I hope that's for everyone's benefit, including his own. So let's get this thread back to where it was for the first couple of months: Concerned people sharing their stories, worries, and ideas. I think this has mostly been a supportive place, even when (Cipp aside) we disagree.
sounds good to me and sorry if I was harsh but it's useless to say I didn't mean it when clearly I did :o

I wish I could point to another interaction that continues, over many different threads, to engender such ill feelings - I agree, it's not good and one thing I will say (and this is maybe where troll isn't the best label for a poster like cipp), I don't really believe he's one to post because he gets off on "libs loosing their shit"

speaking of which, guess who got anal probed by aliens today? :lol: Yup, spent most of the day in the hospital for a relatively 'routine' procedure. Nothing to worry about though that's not set in stone until the biopsies come back, but want to talk a good reason to be angry? aka sore? prepping for anal probes isn't much fucking fun!

So, what's it like to be in a hospital during CoV-19? And joking aside about what I call the procedure (props to Cartman as well as the Roswell indecident) Well, I had a nice, if perfunctory and overworked staffer carefully insert a swab into my nasal cavity two days ago - it wasn't anywhere near as bad as prepping for today's procedure but I'd say today's procedure was less uncomfortable. Still, it's brief and it can be born. They both can.

So please, if you need a CoV-19 nasal test, PLEASE GET IT. Don't let people talking about it hurting or whatever keep you from knowing if you need to know. Even if you don't need to know and can get one easily just so you know what to expect if you need to know, do it. About the only place I draw the line are the people waiting en queue for three hours in the tropical sun/heat/humidity/etc :guns:

The hospital was cold but they were happy to give me blankets. It's cooler than normal so workers, in their PPE, can function (unlike in Singapore where they are intentionally switching off some AC to keep from moving germs around (D:) ) I was lucky - everyone was kind, caring, friendly, helpful, understanding, but we're not near ICU capacity yet and they are doing their regular jobs.

The only difficulty (other than getting a ride home because I'm in a distant suburb and live LITERALLY two blocks from the hospital) was understanding the MD - he was behind a face shield, mask :blink: - who knows, maybe more than one and it wasn't a language barrier, only a PPE barrier.

So again, please, if you need other routine medical care, don't assume you can't get it or shouldn't if you live in a place where elective care is being offered. I was masked except when drinking after the procedure and during the procedure so they could administer oxygen. Everyone else was masked constantly. They used medical grade hand sanitizer up entering and leaving and gloves. There were plastic shields in place at the registrar and in the taxi. There were lots of reasonable precautions and this was nothing like San Francisco in 1980.

Granted, it wasn't 'risk-free' and we might have decided to wait if was diabetic, 80, had a transplant, was pregnant, and lived in Burkina Faso but since that's not my situation, I'm reasonably confident that our medical institutions, when NOT stressed, are still able to provide care.

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7770
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#1708

Post by xianjiro » July 18th, 2020, 6:03 am

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 5:47 am
xianjiro wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 5:01 am
If only the rest of us could have troll-free discussions ... but no one with power to do anything on this forum is willing or there isn't enough collective will.
This is fake news.
oh? :huh: I must have missed or yet to read something - if so, I'll happily stand corrected though I did see what I'd call AdamH's stern warning a few posts back after I responded to blocho

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 24747
Joined: May 08, 2011
Contact:

#1709

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » July 18th, 2020, 6:11 am

You're right that we've been too hesitant to moderate this and the politics threads but we're all sick of the drive by comments that serve only to stir things up and aren't actual discussion. We haven't reached a decision as to the extent of what we're going to do, but we're definitely doing something.

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7770
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#1710

Post by xianjiro » July 18th, 2020, 6:55 am

sounds good PA - I'll be patient. I also know it's hard to draw a line in the sand between keeping the peace and killing free speech. Never have felt anyone's goal around here is to kill off opposing viewpoints - within reason - but how many times have I read someone else post "I stopped going into X thread because of _____'s posts"? I can only think of one user's name that fills that blank though clearly we've had other posters kill the vibe for people, but they also got banned. (lim-burger anyone?)

I mention the "I stopped going ..." not because I have personally stopped visiting our political threads and have been on the verge of adding this thread to that same list because, in its own way, this too results in the suppression of the free exchange of ideas. While a certain amount of repetition can be humorous, probably the only thing that would piss me off more is a user going into the LGBTQ... thread and constantly posting "proof" that all gay men are pedophiles (clearly something I've never seen on this forum and don't expect to ever see).

Would a Conservative Politics Lounge help? I'm trying to think of positive solutions. I've tried before but so far no luck.

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
mightysparks
Site Admin
Posts: 30738
Joined: May 05, 2011
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

#1711

Post by mightysparks » July 18th, 2020, 7:00 am

'Conspiracy theories and unpopular opinions lounge' :whistling:
"I do not always know what I want, but I do know what I don't want." - Stanley Kubrick

iCM | IMDb | LastFM | TSZDT

Image

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7770
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#1712

Post by xianjiro » July 18th, 2020, 7:59 am

mightysparks wrote:
July 18th, 2020, 7:00 am
'Conspiracy theories and unpopular opinions lounge' :whistling:
Don't think it hasn't crossed my mind but I'm trying to be respectful.
SpoilerShow
even if it hurts :yucky:

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
mightysparks
Site Admin
Posts: 30738
Joined: May 05, 2011
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

#1713

Post by mightysparks » July 19th, 2020, 1:24 am

Masks are becoming mandatory in Melbourne from tomorrow. I get breaking alerts from The Guardian app and every day I see Melbourne has 300+ new cases which is just insane. Only two other states have even reached a total of 1000 cases. Five states had 0 new cases in the last 24 hours and WA had 1 for comparison. Poor Melbourne, idk what happened there.
"I do not always know what I want, but I do know what I don't want." - Stanley Kubrick

iCM | IMDb | LastFM | TSZDT

Image

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7770
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#1714

Post by xianjiro » July 19th, 2020, 1:58 am

yeah, it's hard to get my head around - I think, maybe, there's just too much optimism floating around with this virus. I totally get people wanting needing life to be more manageable, easier, like life they are used to. I promise, I spent years trying to get back to the way my life was, what I wanted it to be, before my health tanked many years ago. What I learned, personally, is that I had to let it go: every time I tried to go back to the way things were (and I wanted them to be), I'd just get sicker and sicker. Lots of bad things happened and it became a downward spiral.

it's painfully obvious to me that's what's happening all around us - we try to go back to normal and people get sick

society needs to get a grip on expectations and full lockdowns are only the answer for the short-term: they allow society to get a hold on the virus so healthcare will be available for those in need.

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

AdamH
Site Admin
Posts: 12444
Joined: May 05, 2011
Contact:

#1715

Post by AdamH » July 19th, 2020, 11:27 am

Just a quick post regarding this topic.

Cippenham will not be back on this thread or the political threads due to various issues which I'm sure all regulars on here will be aware of. We, as admins/mods, have been too slow to act when it comes to these types of situations and we are making an effort to change that now. We have tried to allow people to post without too much moderation but there has to be a limit and when we reach a point where someone is repeatedly posting very similar things and continually causing a negative reaction and putting people off posting on here, then it's time to take action. I freely admit we have been too slow to act in certain cases (thankfully we have only ever had issues in a small number of cases).

I would like us to find a way for this thread and the political ones to be a more positive place for discussion as I think they get quite toxic at times and we are working on ways to improve the forum in that regard. I know they are contentious topics and politics tends to cause arguments but I think there can be improvements in how we communicate with each other on the threads and how we respond to posts we disagree with.

User avatar
OldAle1
Donator
Posts: 4722
Joined: Feb 09, 2017
Location: Dairyland, USA
Contact:

#1716

Post by OldAle1 » July 19th, 2020, 12:48 pm

Thanks Adam and other admins - maybe Cipp will actually start posting about movies now? Not sure I've seen him post in a regular movie thread in the whole time I've been here.

re: Xian's last post. Yes - but I'm increasingly feeling that so much of this could have been averted in the US and some other countries by leadership. I mean, you know I'm as cynical and misanthropic as anybody here, I think an unfortunately very large percentage of my fellow Americans and probably the rest of the world are stupid and purely self-interested and have no conception of such a thing as a "greater good" - BUT I also think they will act appropriately a good chunk of the time if they really do see the threat. And had we had competent, involved, caring leadership, we would be where we are. The non-Agent Orange fans are already for the most part acting intelligently about this; the cult followers would follow what he says - even he could actually lead us out of this if he had the will and the brain power to do it, and if he weren't more concerned about looking "weak" by back-tracking and saying he'd been wrong. And of course nearly any Dem and some previous Rep presidents or candidates would have focused 10x as much energy on this in January on, and we likely would have slowed things dramatically. But that can't happen with this guy at the wheel now and by November I don't want to think where we'll be.

Short version: I think people can do what's right and safe, but won't absent proper leadership. This is still a top-down society as most of the world is and if our leaders say, hey no big deal we often tend to just go along with it. And of course the FAUX media bubble only compounds the problem. All things considered I don't see a way out.

More local news: The brewpub across the street from me had INDOOR dining only open a couple of days ago when I drove past it - and it was bright and sunny and 85 degrees. WHAT. THE. FUCK. ARE. THEY. THINKING? They actually have a large open-air seating area in place (built before the pandemic) and an enormous parking lot that could be used for extra seating if necessary. Lost my business forever even if it becomes safe again and it survives. I think at the moment, at least here in WI, business owners and others are making a purely political decision rather than paying attention to science, or what's going on around them, and the owners of that place are surely Agent Orange cultists or just morons. The farmer's market on the other hand had near as I can tell full mask compliance yesterday and they had half a dozen pseudo-security people there to ensure it. Because people who will go to a farmer's market around here tend to be liberals who actually care about what they put in their bodies, and care about supporting the local businesses that are doing the right thing. I suspect if I went into the local WalMart I'd find a very different story.

User avatar
Armoreska
Posts: 11955
Joined: Nov 01, 2012
Location: Ukraine, former Free Territory
Contact:

#1717

Post by Armoreska » July 19th, 2020, 3:59 pm

Didn't know you could ban somebody from posting in a subforum.
Image
currently working towards a vegan/low waste world + thru such film lists (besides TV): ANARCHISTS, 2010s bests, RW Fassbinder, Yasujiro Ozu, Eric Rohmer, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, 17+ sci-fi lists on watchlist, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo

AdamH
Site Admin
Posts: 12444
Joined: May 05, 2011
Contact:

#1718

Post by AdamH » July 19th, 2020, 4:11 pm

Armoreska wrote:
July 19th, 2020, 3:59 pm
Didn't know you could ban somebody from posting in a subforum.
Yes, on phpBB, you can do a few things differently and make the settings specific for a section e.g. 1) Ban someone entirely so they can't read the section, 2) Ban someone from posting in a section but they can still read it and 3) Put someone on moderator approval for a section (meaning every post they make it that one section has to be approved to show up for members). There doesn't seem to be a way to ban someone from a specific thread but the section banning is certainly useful.

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7770
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#1719

Post by xianjiro » July 19th, 2020, 7:23 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
July 19th, 2020, 12:48 pm
re: Xian's last post. Yes - but I'm increasingly feeling that so much of this could have been averted in the US and some other countries by leadership. I mean, you know I'm as cynical and misanthropic as anybody here, I think an unfortunately very large percentage of my fellow Americans and probably the rest of the world are stupid and purely self-interested and have no conception of such a thing as a "greater good" - BUT I also think they will act appropriately a good chunk of the time if they really do see the threat.
While I think I can out cynic just about anyone, I"m not sure I agree. I do see lots of people trying to do the right thing though I'm not about to ascribe any motivation since I don't know what's going on their heads. People are trying to wrap their heads around this as best they can while also living their lives. Yes, absolutely, a different style of leadership would send a much different message. No doubt if this had happened four years earlier, the right would had fought it. I'm not so sure that twelve years ago the fight wouldn't be any different although I think the left would have opposed that administration. The partisan divide is just so strong.

But as I think that, I also remember how people pulled together after 9/11. It didn't matter that Bubba Bush was running things and 40% of the country was convinced the election had been stolen. But it's hard to know if they would have reacted the same later in his term and certainly there was opposition to the Invasion of Iraq (less so Afghanistan IMO).

However a creeping menace is different. Look at how long it took anyone to do 'something' about ISIS or Syria. Most people still haven't been affected personally. It's hard to take something seriously when, in the age when we see people routinely, constantly die left, right, and center, right before our very eyes, but we know it's fiction and somehow we find it entertaining. I'm not suggesting that TV makes us do anything; just that we're so used to not taking what we see seriously. There has to be some affect.

So leadership, especially leading by example, sets the tone and the tone all along has been all wrong.

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7770
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#1720

Post by xianjiro » July 19th, 2020, 7:27 pm

AdamH wrote:
July 19th, 2020, 4:11 pm
Armoreska wrote:
July 19th, 2020, 3:59 pm
Didn't know you could ban somebody from posting in a subforum.
Yes, on phpBB, you can do a few things differently and make the settings specific for a section e.g. 1) Ban someone entirely so they can't read the section, 2) Ban someone from posting in a section but they can still read it and 3) Put someone on moderator approval for a section (meaning every post they make it that one section has to be approved to show up for members). There doesn't seem to be a way to ban someone from a specific thread but the section banning is certainly useful.
RE: the last sentence - maybe the Off Topic section needs a subsection for "Hot Button Topics" or something to that effect. If a thread starts getting testy, it gets moved there so a user can be moderated/banned/whatever while still allowing them to post about not eating baby goats or why curling is really the best sport ever.

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

Post Reply