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American Football lounge

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American Football lounge

#1

Post by blocho » September 10th, 2019, 4:09 am

I am hereby splitting off American football (also known as gridiron football) from the sports lounge. This is a lounge for discussion of all matters pertaining to American football, including the NFL, CFL, other professional leagues, college football, high school football, etc.

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#2

Post by blocho » September 10th, 2019, 4:11 am

In case anyone missed it, the Monday night game between the Saints and the Texans was bonkers. I've watched a lot of football in my life, and that probably fits into my list of top 10 wildest finishes.

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#3

Post by maxwelldeux » September 10th, 2019, 4:34 am

Good idea - we needed to carve out a handegg section of this forum.

But after the Thursday game, I just didn't have the oomph to watch more games this week. I did hear that was a crazy game, though.

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#4

Post by GruesomeTwosome » September 10th, 2019, 5:22 am

I was happy to see my Eagles start the season off with a win. It was a little scary when the Redskins started out with a 17-0 lead, but the Birds finally got their act together and looked great (on offense, primarily) once they mounted their comeback. Really encouraging to see Carson Wentz have a very good game. Just stay healthy! Meanwhile, sad to see Nick Foles get injured right away for the Jags.
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#5

Post by tirefeet » September 11th, 2019, 8:21 pm

I cheer for the Chargers since I have a knack for supporting roguish outfits that have an underdog feel to them. And I absolutely adore 'philty' Philip Rivers.

Too bad the team continues to suffer from injury bug besides their primary RB holding out. Now revealed is that the star TE Hunter Henry suffered an injury on the winning play against Colts last Sunday and is out for 4 to 6 weeks. There might be a silver lining to this though if the legendary Antonio Gates decides to come back.

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#6

Post by blocho » September 11th, 2019, 8:59 pm

That's a tough break with Henry. I think I remember him missing most or all of last season. Has it been tough remaining a Chargers fan as they abandoned their fan base?

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#7

Post by tirefeet » September 11th, 2019, 9:27 pm

I was following Nfl since around 2012 but I wasn't sticking with one team. I was generally catching up during playoff time and started to watch from around wild card phase though I stopped paying attention to postseason and the league in general around 2015. That was until last November when I decided to open a game online and watched Rivers breaking the record for most consecutive completions to start a game. I remembered him from years ago as the guy that has lots of kids (he now has enough nuclear family to line a football team :woot: ). After that I kept watching Chargers and those tenacious comeback wins against Steelers and Chiefs made me a staunch follower of them.

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#8

Post by sebby » September 11th, 2019, 9:45 pm

Bears fan here.

Heavy sigh.

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#9

Post by Nathan Treadway » September 11th, 2019, 10:03 pm

Bengals (pro) and Buckeyes (college). One team probably isn't going to do anything this year while the other very well might.

While Sunday's score was disappointing, Cincy really outplayed Seattle. A few poor decisions from a rookie coach probably costed them the game. Hopefully he learns from it, and improves, if not, this is going to be a long season...

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#10

Post by blocho » September 16th, 2019, 5:23 pm

I wasn't feeling well yesterday and only saw a little game action (about half of Eagles-Falcons and half of Saints-Rams). I usually catch up by watching the NFL's highlight videos, but I've only gone through two so far. Still, here are a few reactions.

- I was very surprised by the Falcons defense, which was bad last year and atrocious in week 1 (far worse than the score indicated). Maybe there's hope yet in Atlanta, although both quarterbacks last night were unusually bad. Wentz seemed to be playing hurt.

- Very pleased by my Packers winning. Two wins in two games, and both in the division. I couldn't get a good feel for the defense from the highlights. Cousins put up a crap day, which is a credit to the D (Cousins has problems, but he's not that bad), but they also gave up three big plays. The offensive line was legitimately impressive in run blocking. I saw maybe six or seven plays were they pushed the Vikings five years off the ball. It feels like a game where the Packers got a bit lucky. They didn't score in the second half, had far fewer yards than the Vikings, but benefited from three Vikings turnovers, a missed field goal, and that touchdown-negating pass interference.

- Watching the Pats-Dolphins highlights was a bit depressing. I don't have any affection for the Dolphins, but it was just painful to watch them. I certainly hope for better for my favorite 2018 style icon Ryan Fitzpatrick. The Dolphins are on pace to break a large number of records for ineptitude. I was also surprised to see the Patriots playing starters, including Brady, deep into the fourth quarter. Seems a little stupid of them.

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#11

Post by GruesomeTwosome » September 16th, 2019, 5:54 pm

That Eagles-Falcons game last night was crazy, namely all of the injuries, mostly on the Eagles side. Their top 2 receivers (DeSean Jackson and Alshon Jeffery) leaving the game was particularly devastating, and really limited the Eagles offense for much of the game. And yeah, as an Eagles fan it was scary to see Wentz once again have to leave the field, but thankfully he came back and eventually did play better. How the game was going, the Eagles really had no business winning, but if Agholor doesn’t drop that easy deep ball late in the 4th, they probably would have won. Ugh...tough one.

As for the Dolphins, I think they’re just tanking this year for the #1 overall pick, to get a franchise QB or something.
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#12

Post by blocho » September 16th, 2019, 6:08 pm

GruesomeTwosome wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 5:54 pm
As for the Dolphins, I think they’re just tanking this year for the #1 overall pick, to get a franchise QB or something.
Yeah, the Dolphins are clearly "Tanking for Tua." Teams have tanked before for top draft picks, but usually they don't stop until the second half of the season when it's clear they're out of the playoffs (think of the Colts in 2011 and their "Suck for Luck campaign). The Dolphins are more clearly following the path of the Browns, who supposedly tanked during their Sashi Brown era (2015-2017). Although with the Browns, I don't think you can say you're purposefully tanking if you've sucked for the last 20 years. At that point, you're just a bad organization.

There are some big risks with tanking. Although everybody was ready to crown the Browns in the off-season, they still haven't had a winning season since 2007 and week 1 didn't exactly look good. Moreover, there's never been a successful example of a team purposefully tanking in the NFL for an entire season or longer. Of course, just because something hasn't been done before doesn't mean it's not possible. But there are some ancillary costs, including alienating all of your current players, coaches, executives, and fans.

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#13

Post by maxwelldeux » September 16th, 2019, 6:29 pm

Well, with Big Ben out in Pittsburg, the Dolphins may have some competition...

Russell Wilson FTW.

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#14

Post by Nathan Treadway » September 16th, 2019, 9:30 pm

I'd rather not talk about yesterday. :(

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#15

Post by tirefeet » September 16th, 2019, 10:04 pm

Nathan Treadway wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 9:30 pm
I'd rather not talk about yesterday. :(
:hug:

It sucked my excitement so much that I hardly paid attention to what went around the league, and there were plenty. Losing by three while missing two ~40 yard FG's in a domed stadium, having two TD's called back and fumbling the ball at one yard line is what I would call a crushing defeat. Props to Lions and Stafford and their fans were great.

The injuries keep piling up though :/ Hope GM Telesco addresses the corner and safety issues somehow some way; Jalen Ramsey from Jags would be a very good fit for example :ermm: :shifty:

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#16

Post by sebby » September 17th, 2019, 12:36 am

Bears drafting Trubisky over either Watson or Mahomes is going to ensure they're just good enough to make the playoffs every year and never good enough to win the Super Bowl. Wasting a potential generational defense is sure going to be fun to watch for the next few years.

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#17

Post by blocho » September 17th, 2019, 3:47 am

sebby wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 12:36 am
Bears drafting Trubisky over either Watson or Mahomes is going to ensure they're just good enough to make the playoffs every year and never good enough to win the Super Bowl. Wasting a potential generational defense is sure going to be fun to watch for the next few years.
Not to mention the Bears gave up two third-rounders and a fourth-rounder to move up one spot to draft Trubisky. That 2017 draft is gonna be like the 2004 draft in defining three franchises for the next two decades.

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#18

Post by GruesomeTwosome » September 17th, 2019, 5:03 am

It seems like the Bears pretty much always have a great defense and an ugly-as-fuck offense (run-heavy, shoddy QB play) no matter the era, lol. They might be the Super Bowl favorite if it was 1967. 😁
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#19

Post by blocho » September 17th, 2019, 5:11 am

GruesomeTwosome wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 5:03 am
It seems like the Bears pretty much always have a great defense and an ugly-as-fuck offense (run-heavy, shoddy QB play) no matter the era, lol. They might be the Super Bowl favorite if it was 1967. 😁
Well, that definitely describes the Grossman Bears of the mid-2000s. But it also kind of describes the Cutler Bears. The beauty of Cutler, for a Packers fan like me, was that he was good enough that the Bears got suckered into handing him a huge contract, but he was bad enough that he could always be counted on to throw killer interceptions. Someone once described him to me as the fourth best quarterback in Packers history (after Starr, Favre, Rodgers), and that seems pretty apt. The Bears haven't had a great QB since Sid Luckman.

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#20

Post by sebby » September 17th, 2019, 7:41 am

blocho wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 5:11 am
GruesomeTwosome wrote:
September 17th, 2019, 5:03 am
It seems like the Bears pretty much always have a great defense and an ugly-as-fuck offense (run-heavy, shoddy QB play) no matter the era, lol. They might be the Super Bowl favorite if it was 1967. 😁
Well, that definitely describes the Grossman Bears of the mid-2000s. But it also kind of describes the Cutler Bears. The beauty of Cutler, for a Packers fan like me, was that he was good enough that the Bears got suckered into handing him a huge contract, but he was bad enough that he could always be counted on to throw killer interceptions. Someone once described him to me as the fourth best quarterback in Packers history (after Starr, Favre, Rodgers), and that seems pretty apt. The Bears haven't had a great QB since Sid Luckman.
You could argue they haven't had better than an above-average QB since Luckman. It defies all odds.

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#21

Post by GruesomeTwosome » September 20th, 2019, 8:31 pm

...and the Antonio Brown saga just gets weirder: released by the Patriots today, after just one game played. He was apparently trying to intimidate one of his accusers. What a schmuck.
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#22

Post by blocho » September 20th, 2019, 10:03 pm

GruesomeTwosome wrote:
September 20th, 2019, 8:31 pm
...and the Antonio Brown saga just gets weirder: released by the Patriots today, after just one game played. He was apparently trying to intimidate one of his accusers. What a schmuck.
I've been trying to think of a player saga in NFL history that was comparably bizarre and I can't.

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#23

Post by Nathan Treadway » September 21st, 2019, 2:55 am

Yeah, it'd be kind of hard to have so much drama and burn so many bridges to essentially get kicked off of 3 teams within the span of a few months despite being one of the most productive players on the field in the league.

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#24

Post by blocho » September 22nd, 2019, 11:47 pm

I just watched the Bucs blow their game against the Giants by taking the field goal for granted. I call this Marty Schottenheimer syndrome -- the belief that once a team is within field goal range, then the kicker will make it and they shouldn't bother trying to do anything to make the kick easier.

The Bucs threw a bomb with under a minute remaining down to the Giants 10. They could have kicked it right there. Instead they took a delay of game (despite having a timeout) and lost two yards on a kneeldown to run the clock down further. A 27-yard field goal turned into a 34-yard field goal. It's worth noting that the rookie kicker had already missed two extra points that day (one of them blocked). He missed again. I'm pretty sure the same kick would have been good from 27. I don't care about the Bucs. But stupidity in football annoys me.

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#25

Post by blocho » September 23rd, 2019, 2:29 pm

blocho wrote:
September 22nd, 2019, 11:47 pm
I just watched the Bucs blow their game against the Giants by taking the field goal for granted. I call this Marty Schottenheimer syndrome -- the belief that once a team is within field goal range, then the kicker will make it and they shouldn't bother trying to do anything to make the kick easier.

The Bucs threw a bomb with under a minute remaining down to the Giants 10. They could have kicked it right there. Instead they took a delay of game (despite having a timeout) and lost two yards on a kneeldown to run the clock down further. A 27-yard field goal turned into a 34-yard field goal. It's worth noting that the rookie kicker had already missed two extra points that day (one of them blocked). He missed again. I'm pretty sure the same kick would have been good from 27. I don't care about the Bucs. But stupidity in football annoys me.
Beautiful. Arians claimed after the game that he took the delay of game penalty because it's easier to make longer kicks than shorter kicks.

In other news, I spent the early game watching football in a bar because I'm sick of taking whatever local telecast the networks throw at me. My Packers looked OK, though the defense had trouble with third downs and the offense definitely had that clogged-toilet look from last year for a couple of series in the second half. The Broncos turned the ball over four times and the Packers none. That was the difference. The Broncos, remarkably, have not had a sack or a takeaway on defense this season. They're the first team in 50 years to not have a sack or takeaway in their first three games.

I also watched a bit of Chiefs-Ravens, where Mahomes continued to look ridiculous, and a bit of Jets-Patriots, where the Jets looked tremendously pathetic (they had 105 yards of offense on the day) while starting their third-string QB.

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#26

Post by GruesomeTwosome » September 23rd, 2019, 2:45 pm

The Eagles have been really fucking frustrating to watch so far for these first three games...similar to last week against the Falcons, the Eagles had a couple of chances in the 4th quarter to take the lead and win it, but they dropped several easy catches at crucial moments. The glaring absences of Desean Jackson and Alshon Jeffery were painfully felt in this one; can't get those guys back soon enough. And a short turnaround with Eagles-Packers on Thursday night, blocho...can't say I'm feeling too confident about that game for the Birds.
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#27

Post by blocho » September 23rd, 2019, 3:46 pm

GruesomeTwosome wrote:
September 23rd, 2019, 2:45 pm
The Eagles have been really fucking frustrating to watch so far for these first three games...similar to last week against the Falcons, the Eagles had a couple of chances in the 4th quarter to take the lead and win it, but they dropped several easy catches at crucial moments. The glaring absences of Desean Jackson and Alshon Jeffery were painfully felt in this one; can't get those guys back soon enough. And a short turnaround with Eagles-Packers on Thursday night, blocho...can't say I'm feeling too confident about that game for the Birds.
Some of those drops by Agholor were brutal. The short week always makes those Thursday games weird and unpredictable. I wish they would get rid of Thursday Night Football. I know the players and coaches hate it.

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#28

Post by sebby » September 23rd, 2019, 11:38 pm

Must win game for the bears tonight. Lose and they're done. Schedule, conference and division are too hard to come back from 1-2.

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#29

Post by GruesomeTwosome » September 24th, 2019, 2:02 am

The shitty Redskins are just what the doctor ordered for Da Bears and Trubisky to get their offense going a little bit. And keep doing what you’re doing, Bears defense, and I just might come back to win my fantasy matchup this week. B)
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#30

Post by blocho » September 27th, 2019, 2:17 pm

Congrats to Gruesome for the Eagles win and for a very GruesomeTwosome-focused It's Always Sunny episode this week.

That was a frustrating game last night. The Packers couldn't run the ball and couldn't stop the run. And yet, because the Eagles secondary was trash, the Packers gained a ton of yards and scored plenty. In the end, it came down to turnovers, which is probably true of the majority of football games. The Packers had three (fumble, downs, and game-ending interception), and the Eagles had none.

A few notes from this one:
- After looking strong in the first two weeks and a little creaky last week, the Packers run defense looked like total trash, surrendering 163 yards on 27 designed run plays (I'm excepting Wentz scrambles). Credit to the Eagles offensive line. But I expected the Packers to make some adjustments in run defense at halftime, and nothing happened. It'll be interesting to see what happens going forward.
- On that note, I'm not sure why the Eagles ever passed in the second half. I'm normally the first to support emphasizing the pass over the run, but the Eagles couldn't lose on the ground last night. They did not have a single run go for negative yards. The only time they had to punt was because they tried to pass.
- Packers run game was weak, and the absences of the starting left guard (on IR) and right tackle (out halfway through the game) had a big effect. Excepting Rodgers scrambles, the Packers had 31 yards on 15 carries last night. Brutal. This is the opposite of the Eagles' situation; the Packers stuck with the run too long. And the weakness of the ground game had a huge effect, of course, during the goal-line stand from the 1-yard line, where the Packers threw four straight times.
- Despite 422 passing yards, the Packers' pass game has questions, and they're all about wide receiver. After letting Randall Cobb and Jordy Nelson walk over the past two seasons (rightly, I think), the team has been waiting for someone to break out opposite Davante Adams. It hasn't happened yet. Marquez Valdes-Scantling and Geronimo Allison (who had an amazing catch) can both do some good things, but they haven't shown the ability to be reliable second options yet. Over the past two years, the Packers have invested almost all of their draft and free agency resources into defense. They've consciously decided to make the defense great and depend on Rodgers to keep the offense passable. When Adams went out last night with a foot injury, the offense broke down because there were no more weapons left.
- It's early in his tenure, but I'm growing tired of LaFleur's conservatism. He has shown a repeated tendency to stick with the running game when it's not working. He passed up the opportunity to go for it on 4th-and-2 in the first half. And then we had that ridiculous scene before the two-minute warning in the first half, when he bled the clock instead of hurrying up and planning for a quick drive.

All that being said, the Packers are 3-1, and I would have been very happy with that record through four games if I had been asked before the season. I really have no idea where the team is going this year.

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#31

Post by maxwelldeux » September 27th, 2019, 5:34 pm

Is it just me, or did Jimmy Graham look awful last night? I caught the last ~18m of game time, and I kept seeing him not catch balls that looked catchable. He got called out a lot on SC after the game, too.

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#32

Post by blocho » September 27th, 2019, 6:02 pm

maxwelldeux wrote:
September 27th, 2019, 5:34 pm
Is it just me, or did Jimmy Graham look awful last night? I caught the last ~18m of game time, and I kept seeing him not catch balls that looked catchable. He got called out a lot on SC after the game, too.
There were definitely a couple that he didn't get, including two during the goal-line stand, but I think they were tough catches.

Overall, though, Graham has been coasting on reputation for a while now. I wasn't very happy when the Packers gave him big free agent dollars before last season because I thought he had fallen a lot from his New Orleans glory days. People still talk about him like he's a big receiving threat, but it just hasn't been true for a while. He last went over 1,000 yards six years ago.

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#33

Post by maxwelldeux » September 27th, 2019, 6:15 pm

blocho wrote:
September 27th, 2019, 6:02 pm
maxwelldeux wrote:
September 27th, 2019, 5:34 pm
Is it just me, or did Jimmy Graham look awful last night? I caught the last ~18m of game time, and I kept seeing him not catch balls that looked catchable. He got called out a lot on SC after the game, too.
There were definitely a couple that he didn't get, including two during the goal-line stand, but I think they were tough catches.

Overall, though, Graham has been coasting on reputation for a while now. I wasn't very happy when the Packers gave him big free agent dollars before last season because I thought he had fallen a lot from his New Orleans glory days. People still talk about him like he's a big receiving threat, but it just hasn't been true for a while. He last went over 1,000 yards six years ago.
Yeah, after he didn't really work out in Seattle, I haven't seen much that impressed me with him. The catches at the goal line were certainly tough, but totally doable. It was like he couldn't (or wouldn't) lift his left arm to try and catch the ball.

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#34

Post by sebby » September 27th, 2019, 6:55 pm

By the end of the week the Bears and Pack will be tied atop the division. As it should be. Will be fun to see the Chiefs firmly answer "Nah" to the "Wait, are the Lions actually kinda good this year" question.

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#35

Post by blocho » September 30th, 2019, 4:47 am

I watched about half of the Pats-Bills game, and boy did both offenses look like horse shit. Give credit to the Bills defense. That's the defense that took them to the playoffs two years ago and kept them from complete embarrassment last year. On the other hand, I'm just wondering at this point how long the Josh Allen era will last in Buffalo. When he went out, Barkley immediately improved the offense. The Bills should move on after this season, but knowing them, they'll keep trying to make Allen good for a couple of more years.

Meanwhile, we got to see Haskins vs. Jones in the Giants-Washington game, a preview of the next 15 years in the NFC East! And they combined for five interceptions.

We also got two Scorigamis this week! Thanks to the Browns winning 40-25 over the Ravens and the Bucs winning 55-40 over the Rams. See here if you're unfamiliar with the concept. The Browns-Ravens game was particularly interesting because it was the second week in a row when the Ravens went for the two-pointer after scoring a touchdown while down 14. This is a move that offers a tiny statistical boost and has been discussed ardently by the analytical people for years.

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#36

Post by sebby » September 30th, 2019, 5:06 am

Oh boy that Bears D. Giving me them SB dreams again.

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#37

Post by GruesomeTwosome » September 30th, 2019, 5:43 am

I’m enjoying the Bears D on my fantasy team, for sure. But that QB situation though...Trubisky, Chase Daniel, whoever...are they allowed to instead use a JUGS machine as their QB? Would likely be preferable.
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#38

Post by sebby » September 30th, 2019, 6:34 am

GruesomeTwosome wrote:
September 30th, 2019, 5:43 am
I’m enjoying the Bears D on my fantasy team, for sure. But that QB situation though...Trubisky, Chase Daniel, whoever...are they allowed to instead use a JUGS machine as their QB? Would likely be preferable.
Yeah, that's the issue. Thing is the NFC is seemingly bereft of elite teams so they could maybe get through with just a game-manager type of QB that limits mistakes. That means stunting Trubisky's development a bit by reining him in, but SB windows are tiny so you gotta do what you gotta do. Mack and co. won't be this good forever.

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#39

Post by blocho » October 1st, 2019, 6:06 am

Well, it seems Trubisky has a separated shoulder and torn labrum. Somehow this is not a season-ending injury, according to the Bears, but it looks like Chase Daniel is Chicago's QB for a while. Daniel has been in the league for a long time and never started more than two games in a season. I really only remember him from his Missouri glory days. I can't imagine his ceiling is that high if he's done 11 years in the league without anyone believing he can be a starter, but it will still be interesting to see if he outperforms Trubes.

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#40

Post by GruesomeTwosome » October 1st, 2019, 6:23 am

blocho wrote:
October 1st, 2019, 6:06 am
Well, it seems Trubisky has a separated shoulder and torn labrum. Somehow this is not a season-ending injury, according to the Bears, but it looks like Chase Daniel is Chicago's QB for a while. Daniel has been in the league for a long time and never started more than two games in a season. I really only remember him from his Missouri glory days. I can't imagine his ceiling is that high if he's done 11 years in the league without anyone believing he can be a starter, but it will still be interesting to see if he outperforms Trubes.
I remember when the Eagles signed Chase Daniel as a backup in the offseason in 2016 for shockingly big money based on nothing. Back when Sam Bradford was still on the roster during that offseason and they had just drafted Carson Wentz #2 overall. Yeah that was a big waste of money for Daniel, lol. But it looks like he’ll finally get a shot at a prolonged stretch of time as a starting QB, let’s see what he can do.
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