US Politics thread

[RogerTheMovieManiac88]

Ah, FedRev. I liked reading his posts back on FG (even if I disagreed with him quite often). Wonder what he's up to these days...

[Onderhond]

speech is speech and actions are actions.

And responsibilities are responsibilities.

[Kublai Khan]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsole ... o-capitol/

So the Department of Defense repeatedly refused to send reinforcement troops to protect the US capitol. Which means that the military had a hand in the violence and damage being worse.

Which makes it a coup attempt. Mr. Tracey continues his trend of have opinions before he has facts. He's just another biased pundit.

[Dolwphin]

OH NO! Look who is NOT back!

[kongs_speech]

Some reading this may remember a certain member of Film General on IMDb who more than once called for all CEOs and all millionaires to be executed and their wealth to be distributed to "the people". I really doubt he would be any more capable of understanding the difference between civil discourse and provocations of violence than our orange leader.

Damn I have a Mao hat and even I don't say that lol

found Godard lol

[Pretentious Hipster]

I think I found the perfect costume for Halloween

[Pretentious Hipster]

[Pretentious Hipster]

[prodigalgodson]

It's a pity that I've saddened OldAle and I'm sorry to hear of the immigration troubles of those close to Prodigal. That is one area of Trump's policies that leaves me unenthused and cold. I'm in favour of common-sense, legal immigration procedures that humanise rather than dehumanise.

Thanks for the clarification Roger, sorry if I got caught in the moment and was overly harsh.

[Pretentious Hipster]

[RogerTheMovieManiac88]

It's a pity that I've saddened OldAle and I'm sorry to hear of the immigration troubles of those close to Prodigal. That is one area of Trump's policies that leaves me unenthused and cold. I'm in favour of common-sense, legal immigration procedures that humanise rather than dehumanise.

Thanks for the clarification Roger, sorry if I got caught in the moment and was overly harsh.

No worries. I probably should be more reticent about posting my views in this thread. I don't wish to inflame things.

[Armoreska]

Elon Musk has decided he will end world hunger later if he can, aside from that more controversial goal of spreading DNA far and wide

[Pretentious Hipster]

[Dolwphin]

Hawley fighting the good fight.

[OldAle1]

This would be kind of hilarious if not for the events of a few days ago and what it says about how the national party *still* has it's head up an obvious fascist's ass

https://www.12news.com/article/news/cin ... 710f69d611

Cindy McCain isn't a politician and has never been part of the party elite in her state AFAIK, except as a contributor and of course as the wife of the late Senator - who, for all his faults, we can be sure would have not voted for Agent Orange and would likely be supportive of impeachment at this point if he were still around. Cindy like John is a right-wing Republican who I suspect supported every Rep nominee up until Shitler, and might well support other in the future - with large campaign contributions - but I guess you have to be a worshipper of the cult these days, full in, or they throw you off the Ark.

[Pretentious Hipster]

[Timec]

Cindy McCain isn't a politician and has never been part of the party elite in her state AFAIK, except as a contributor and of course as the wife of the late Senator - who, for all his faults, we can be sure would have not voted for Agent Orange and would likely be supportive of impeachment at this point if he were still around. Cindy like John is a right-wing Republican who I suspect supported every Rep nominee up until Shitler, and might well support other in the future - with large campaign contributions - but I guess you have to be a worshipper of the cult these days, full in, or they throw you off the Ark.

One of the most darkly amusing aspects of the Trump era has been watching lifelong conservatives magically become "RINOs" and pariahs in their own party. Never mind that they continue to vote the Republican Party line 90%+ of the time - if they dare criticize or otherwise fail to support Dear Leader's every whim, they're pretty much Deep State democrat leftist Marxist communists.

The Republican Party's sole guiding principle now is propping up a man who has no values other than self-worship.

[OldAle1]

Cindy McCain isn't a politician and has never been part of the party elite in her state AFAIK, except as a contributor and of course as the wife of the late Senator - who, for all his faults, we can be sure would have not voted for Agent Orange and would likely be supportive of impeachment at this point if he were still around. Cindy like John is a right-wing Republican who I suspect supported every Rep nominee up until Shitler, and might well support other in the future - with large campaign contributions - but I guess you have to be a worshipper of the cult these days, full in, or they throw you off the Ark.

One of the most darkly amusing aspects of the Trump era has been watching lifelong conservatives magically become "RINOs" and pariahs in their own party. Never mind that they continue to vote the Republican Party line 90%+ of the time - if they dare criticize or otherwise fail to support Dear Leader's every whim, they're pretty much Deep State democrat leftist Marxist communists.

The Republican Party's sole guiding principle now is propping up a man who has no values other than self-worship.

Yes, if I could step outside of the real American world I live in, I'd be laughing too - I can certainly see the funny, I just have a hard time smiling most of the time. When he was first elected I joined in the chorus of a lot of really angry people on the left and definitely agreed with the "rubes, racists or rich" stereotyping of his voters - and still do to some extent. But Hilary was a very bad candidate (not as bad a person or politician as she was made out to be, but certainly a bad candidate) who lacked DJT's peculiar brand of charisma, and one can, unfortunately, understand the "I'll take a chance on anything" attitude. Frankly if that's the way I felt about the candidate I preferred, it would indicate to me that I shouldn't vote for either, but, ok. So for those who knew little about him, I can understand the votes, to a certain extent. But to those already in public office - and to every single person on the planet over the last 4 years - it should have been obvious then how unqualified he was, and obvious now that he is, in fact, yes I'm going to go there, cut from the same mold as Hitler, and absolutely capable of doing just as much damage - he just didn't have a country as compliant or as little-used to democracy as Weimar Germany was. Shit, he's a worse human being - Hitler at least liked animals and had I think a sort of twisted patriotism. Trump loves only himself and that's been borne out time and again over not just the last 4 years but the last 40+ to those of us aware of him before he decided to run for office. So I'm ok to a certain extent with the Steve Schmidts and the Michael Steeles and the Cindy McCains who still maintain some belief in "conservatism", whatever it means to them - they at least saw DJT for what he was right away and got away from him.

And you know, a lot of us have changed over time. The first time I voted, in 1984, I voted for Reagan. My first girlfriend, who I met a couple of years after that, was more conservative economically than I was by that point - and I think her reasons were valid, coming from the environment she grew up in - but she eventually realized that this sort of liberal libertarianism (she was very pro gay-rights and pro-choice) didn't jibe in any way with anything conservative in American politics and she became as staunchly left-wing in most respects as most of my friends have been. And I'm still not as left as some people here, and I argue with my brother - more left than me on some things, but increasingly a little more right of me on a larger number of issues - about a lot of the small stuff. So it's OK to me to have had that come to Jesus moment in 1986 - or 2000 - or even 2016. But to still support an open fascist who clearly doesn't care about anything other than staying powerful and rich and out of jail, and his supporters who are open Nazis and neo-Confederates? No, sorry, you say you still like Trump, you are a Nazi sympathizer, pure and simple, and I have no reason to respect or tolerate you in any way. My family has been broken by this and it's sad and I feel bad that if we have a family reunion again, likely I and some others like me won't go, or my cousin the anti-masker, wall-builder and insurrection-supporter won't go. He used to be one of my favorite people. But he is for violence and hatred (though he claims not to be of course) and I don't need to be around that. And, y'know, I'd rather not hang around people that I KNOW carry guns on their persons at all times, ready for action.

Here's a guy who I think has learned some lessons over the past few years (though he probably has a ways to go):

[Knaldskalle]

This would be kind of hilarious if not for the events of a few days ago and what it says about how the national party *still* has it's head up an obvious fascist's ass

https://www.12news.com/article/news/cin ... 710f69d611

Cindy McCain isn't a politician and has never been part of the party elite in her state AFAIK, except as a contributor and of course as the wife of the late Senator - who, for all his faults, we can be sure would have not voted for Agent Orange and would likely be supportive of impeachment at this point if he were still around. Cindy like John is a right-wing Republican who I suspect supported every Rep nominee up until Shitler, and might well support other in the future - with large campaign contributions - but I guess you have to be a worshipper of the cult these days, full in, or they throw you off the Ark.

Sorry, I'm getting a 404 Page Not Found error. I'm guessing they updated the story? It looks like this may be the updated version:

https://www.12news.com/article/news/mar ... 9caeb7efe8

[OldAle1]

Yep, that seems what happened - same picture and essentially same language in the first paragraph. Thanks for the update.

[xianjiro]

Hawley fighting the good fight.

Again, the US has taken the stand that corporations are the right way to go and they can make better decisions than government bodies. So why does it come as any shock that they don't wish to extend their liability exposure to someone who is growing increasingly toxic?

Boo-hoo-hoo. This is a monster created by those "liberals" that view the free market as the best supreme arbiter. These same whiners are the ones that think it's perfectly acceptable for businesses to refuse services based on their religious beliefs and for other reasons as well, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." And aren't they also the ones that feel businesses should make choices (completely protected, by law, from liability) related to operating during a pandemic like how close workers' stations should be spaced, what kinds of protection should be used, etc? Seriously? What a tool!

Poor baby simply needs to shop the book some more and find a sympathetic publisher. It will probably work to his benefit in the long run, but no, he's got to whine and make a political issue of it to draw attention to HIMSELF.

I hear crocodiles crying all over.

[xianjiro]

here's more right-wing commentary on last week's events

MIchele Bachman

“You know the kind of people that we were with [at the rally],” Bachmann said during a livestream organized by a religious right group. “The nicest, friendliest, happiest people. It was like a family reunion out there. It was incredible. It was wonderful. And then all of a sudden this happens.”

“And it reminded me of Moscow in 1917 with the Bolsheviks, where there were rabble-rousers who dressed up in the opposition’s clothing and had a violent event in the streets. And we saw what happened to Russia: Russia went into 70 years of captivity. I am telling you, I’m not a betting woman, but I would put $1,000 on any table to say this wasn’t the Trump crowd. This didn’t look anything like the Trump crowd or the prayer warriors. These were rabble-rousers. Paid rabble-rousers.”

“This is a coup,” she continued, as she tried to link Georgia Republican losses in two Senate elections to yesterday’s insurrection. “What you observed today was a coup. Does anybody honestly believe that this young pajama boy running for U.S. Senate in Georgia [Senator-elect Jon Ossoff], who produced Chinese propaganda films for the Chinese, that he was elected senator today?”

“Or this guy who’s a pro-abortion-loving pastor [Senator-elect Raphael Warnock], who is in charge of a child’s camp that abused little children, does anybody think that this cat was elected as senator in Georgia? We’re talking Georgia!”

“This was a coup in Georgia with these same phony machines run by Stacey Abrams down there — she’s not even elected, but she’s running this state — with these bought-off phony Republicans down in Georgia.”

“It was a coup so that the Senate was lost today — not lost, stolen today — and now they want to finish the job, and they want the coup to be done today, on January 6, so they can seal the deal with Joe Biden as the next president of the United States. Today was the day to have the coup, to put it all in process and have it come to the head. That’s what this was. This is a coup.

“Don’t think for a minute that these were nasty, naughty, ridiculous, hillbilly Trump people. That is not what you saw today. These were paid rabble-rousers, paid to put together a coup.”

source

gives a bit more context on what the stopthesteal crowd is thinking

[OldAle1]

Bachmann is one of the absolute craziest people in a crazy party - I think Louis Gohmert might be her only equal in the House these days. When I used to spend a lot of time in the Twin Cities with a couple of my best friends - who happened to be lesbians living next door to neighbors with a giant cross painted on their roof - I read a City Pages profile of her, I think this was before she was in Congress, and wow. Scary shit. Lots of things about the ol' de-programming gay people thing as I remember. Tried to look for it online - there are a ton of CP articles on her though and I don't feel like spending that much time digging. She is precisely the kind of kook that notable lefties like Barry Goldwater and Ayn Rand decried as problematic in the Rep party 40-50 years ago and have only gotten worse. Goldwater would surely be a moderate-to-conservative Democrat these days; not sure where Rand would fit into the world anymore, seems there's no room for "real" libertarians who don't like religion now.

[xianjiro]

yeah, I don't generally spend much time on her either, but I'm really having trouble understanding how they believe the shit they believe. I mean, it's one thing to believe that the free market is the be all to end all. I get the logical arguments behind such even if I don't agree with them. But, and here's an example, the chair of one of the three counties that make up the Oregon side of the Portland Metro region was quoted as saying no one has died of Covid-19 and that the state's own website attests to this "fact". She also invited almost everyone she new to her home for Thanksgiving for an unmasked celebration. I'm just baffled by this.

Admittedly, there are things on te left that I distrust as well, but it's a whole different reaction.

[Pretentious Hipster]

[OldAle1]

My brother just sent me this - it's a few weeks old but a quick scan doesn't show it posted here. Really well done and fun...

[Pretentious Hipster]

A youtuber I don't like who is an anarchist did a video with a communist that I follow on YouTube a lot. They were doing videos back and forth to each other insulting each other. They did something unexpected: Had a conversation recently, and it was actually pleasant. Kind of makes you realize that most of us here agree on like 80% of things if not more, but we talk shit about that 20% lol

[OldAle1]

A youtuber I don't like who is an anarchist did a video with a communist that I follow on YouTube a lot. They were doing videos back and forth to each other insulting each other. They did something unexpected: Had a conversation today, and it was actually pleasant. Kind of makes you realize that most of us here agree on like 80% of things if not more, but we talk shit about that 20% lol

[Lakigigar]

trump is absolutely disgusting and a fascist. I feel embarassed to have defended him in the past here.

I avoid talking politics now everywhere aside of the talk election political forum (it's filled with democrats though), but i wanted to make that clear. I did support Biden in 2020 tho.

[matthewscott8]

In politics there are things which aren't clear, how much should we let personal freedoms be eroded for the common good, what is human nature, how best to organise society for fair outcomes, the relative importance of personal responsibility and empathy, which services should be private, which public, what is the best way to make sure people have the facts and have their say. There are many different ways of assessing these pieces which lead to legitimate right wing and left wing stances. It is because we do not have the answers that we stand in different places.

Donald Trump is not part of these discussions. He is an odious creep, a moral leper, and a hideous lecher, interested not in how to organise society for the common good, but in how to organise society for his and his family's benefit. Just as many in Germany found Hitler convenient for their ends until it was too late, so many in modern America found Trump convenient for their ends... and it almost proved too late. Last week the US came astonishingly close to implementing a personality cult. Usually when a bullet passes one's face it's time for shock and reflection, instead many have retreated to the pathetic denialism of, "what about BLM?", and pretending that the assault on the Capitol was a false flag operation by antifa.

The bigots and adult babies, who found Mr Trump's narcissism striking a chord with their own, have simply had better game over the last 6 years, than those fighting for a better future. Those fighting for a better future have fought without nuance, diplomacy or attempt to unite, often succumbing to public tantrums, and flirting dangerously with pathetic ideologies like Stalinism. The Trumpists on the other hand have tried their level best to seduce, keeping their most abhorrent opinions under lock and key, whilst talking bullshit about law and order.

Whilst I'd like to think that it's time for "reasonable" to reassert itself I highly doubt it will. The only thing that has cheered me up the whole time is Biden announcing a plan to double the federal minimum wage. That not a single Trumpist has welcomed this has given the lie to the idea that they are the party of the working class, the moment Biden announced it the bubble should have burst, but it hasn't.

[xianjiro]

trump is absolutely disgusting and a fascist. I feel embarassed to have defended him in the past here.

I avoid talking politics now everywhere aside of the talk election political forum (it's filled with democrats though), but i wanted to make that clear. I did support Biden in 2020 tho.

Thank you for sharing this.

[kongs_speech]

Anyone willing to admit they made a mistake by supporting Trump is fine with me. It's the loyalists who can fuck off.

[matthewscott8]

Some reading this may remember a certain member of Film General on IMDb who more than once called for all CEOs and all millionaires to be executed and their wealth to be distributed to "the people".

He was a complete prick who ignored all attempts at pointing out the cruelty of his ideas. The only thing he had going for him was energy, he could simply post more than everyone else. Last I saw he split to reddit when IMDb went down. Good riddance.

[OldAle1]

Some reading this may remember a certain member of Film General on IMDb who more than once called for all CEOs and all millionaires to be executed and their wealth to be distributed to "the people".

He was a complete prick who ignored all attempts at pointing out the cruelty of his ideas. The only thing he had going for him was energy, he could simply post more than everyone else. Last I saw he split to reddit when IMDb went down. Good riddance.

Yes he split to Reddit but has been off that forum for most of the last couple of years as well. I think he's got a lot of issues; he also went back and forth from really extreme to just kind of extreme; I think on some level he was just grandstanding but I would never know for sure. And like most extremists he was quite inconsistent - hating capitalism but mostly loving really big-budget American movies for example, and bragging about the expensive DVD/Blu box sets he'd gotten. I do think there's hope for him, and for most people, but I suppose I don't care enough to track his progress if there is any.

[Armoreska]

The 147 Republicans Who Voted to Overturn Election Results
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... ctors.html

don't worry, it's a totally centrist post, it's from NYT

the names i recognize are Ted Cruz, Cindy Hyde-Smith, Cynthia Lummis

[xianjiro]

I can't believe it! The PGA (Professional Golfers' Association) have even been overrun by anarcho-commie-libs:

KAPALUA, Hawaii (AP) — The PGA of America cut ties to President Donald Trump when it voted Sunday to take the PGA Championship event away from his New Jersey golf course next year.

The vote comes four days after the Trump-fueled riot at the nation’s Capitol as Congress was certifying the election victory of President-elect Joe Biden. This is the second time in just over five years the PGA of America removed one of its events from a Trump course.

PGA President Jim Richerson says the board voted to exercise its right to “terminate the agreement” with Trump National in Bedminster, New Jersey.

“We find ourselves in a political situation not of our making,” Seth Waugh, the CEO of the PGA of America, said in a telephone interview. “We’re fiduciaries for our members, for the game, for our mission and for our brand. And how do we best protect that? Our feeling was given the tragic events of Wednesday that we could no longer hold it at Bedminster. The damage could have been irreparable. The only real course of action was to leave.”

- source

Yup, even professional golf - you know the sport, where lesbians were holding hands and kissing on the greens during Eisenhower's presidency thanks, in part, to a prior president's pinko wife and her comfortable shoe wearing friends - isn't safe from liberal mono-culture.

I'm sure we should all be outraged! Freedom of speech is so much more important than their game, mission, or brand and clearly they aren't smart enough to make any such decisions for their corporation. Damn their fiduciary responsibility! Full Trumpism ahead!

BTW, here's another quote from the CEO:

This is not because of any pressures we feel. We’re not being forced into a decision,” Waugh said. “We had to make a business decision. It’s a perpetual institution. My job is to hand it off better than when I found it. One hundred years from now, we still want to be vibrant.

Business decision?!? Politics always TRUMPS business!!! It's a fact of life, you know, like you are either born with a penis or born with a vagina - those are the only two possibilities. My god, next they'll let guys in dresses compete in the "Women's" tournaments. UGH! THE HORROR!

And this:

He also owns Trump Doral outside Miami, for years a venerable stop on the PGA Tour schedule and most recently a World Golf Championship site. Trump’s presence made it difficult to find a corporate sponsor, and the tournament moved to Mexico in 2017.

So I guess all of the world's corporations must have signed on to liberal mono-culture thereby forcing golfers to get murdered and raped by ultra-violent gang members and drug cartels.

This post courtesy of The xiOnionro.

[Onderhond]

So Parler was banned from Google and Apple. Amazon won't host them and CC companies are declining transactions for Trump-affiliated services.
I sure hope the next US president will be a Democrat.

[matthewscott8]

Shopify took down the MAGA store as well because of their policies about not promoting violence.

Mostly when people are angry about this stuff it feels like they doth protest too much.

Twitter, facebook, the apple store, whatever, are not public spaces, they are private spaces. They're not free to contaminate. Every fascist still has the right to stand on a soapbox on a street corner and get roundly mocked for their disgusting opinions, and that's as it should be, and would be a whole hell of a lot healthier.

The truth is the far right are the last people who believe in free speech, if they had their way there'd be a second shot at slavery and they'd cut out the tongues of their slaves this time.

[Onderhond]

Twitter, facebook, the apple store, whatever, are not public spaces, they are private spaces.

Maybe according to the law, but not according to common sense and everyday realities.

It's also not so much about "free speech" (but that is the discussion that is often being held), but about some company controlling the behavior of millions, sometimes billions of people. Companies are entities that exist to earn money, it's not hard to see that it's not a healthy situation. The fact that their action kinda align with what many people (here) agree with is nice and may look like a victory, but it really isn't.

Hence why I hope the next US president will still be a Democrat, otherwise it could become real unpretty and the entire internet will have to suffer the consequences.

[matthewscott8]

Twitter, facebook, the apple store, whatever, are not public spaces, they are private spaces.

Maybe according to the law, but not according to common sense and everyday realities.

It's also not so much about "free speech" (but that is the discussion that is often being held), but about some company controlling the behavior of millions, sometimes billions of people. Companies are entities that exist to earn money, it's not hard to see that it's not a healthy situation. The fact that their action kinda align with what many people (here) agree with is nice and may look like a victory, but it really isn't.

Hence why I hope the next US president will still be a Democrat, otherwise it could become real unpretty and the entire internet will have to suffer the consequences.

it's not their fault if people don't know they're private spaces. When I was managing a shop we used to ban violent, thieving and antisocial people. Every time it happened they expressed disbelief, like they thought the had some inalienable right to come in and do that stuff. It turns out antisocial people are incredibly entitled. We wanted to serve everybody, but that's not the same as being public.

If you want to understand what's going on majority of time people scream "free speech", it's this. Narcissistic people exploit conscientousness. They know the people theyre talking too are much nicer, that's why they call them bleeding heart liberals. They go straight for the jugular of conscientousness, why are you trying to stop my free speech. Because they know it makes their enemies feel super awkward.

The real problem is community breakdown, people feel bereft, alone and unloved, and they let the rage and hatred build up in them and spew forth onto social media. We have to do a lot of work now to figure out hoe to make people feel included in society. But the answer is not letting them act out on Twitter. The answer is not handing over the reins of power to QAnon schizophrenics.

The answer is things like public mental health services, proper public transportation and medicare, unionized living wage jobs, more public spaces etc.