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US Politics thread

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Pretentious Hipster
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Re: US Politics thread

#16481

Post by Pretentious Hipster » February 10th, 2020, 4:41 pm

I swear to fucking god if Peter gets the nominee then it's clear that there needs to be a proletariat revolution because the elite is too powerful and the average american voter is too stupid.

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#16482

Post by OldAle1 » February 10th, 2020, 4:41 pm

Who in the DNC - after 2016's loss, and 2018's huge wins for people like AOC, actually really and truly believes that the best way to beat DJT is to stomp on the progressives first?

But hey, maybe they have a point. Maybe the Biden/Buttigieg bros won't vote for Bernie. And the Bernie bros won't vote for Biden/Buttigieg. And too many men won't vote for a woman.

Maybe the Democratic Party doesn't need Trump to implode all on it's own. That's one area where the pundits all seem to agree and unfortunately history is with them.

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#16483

Post by Pretentious Hipster » February 10th, 2020, 4:42 pm

If Joshua Collins doesn't win congress then all hope is lost.

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#16484

Post by OldAle1 » February 10th, 2020, 4:45 pm

Pretentious Hipster wrote:
February 10th, 2020, 4:41 pm
I swear to fucking god if Peter gets the nominee then it's clear that there needs to be a proletariat revolution because the elite is too powerful and the average american voter is too stupid.
How's that going to happen if most of us are too stupid? Don't forget that most of the stupid people in this country own most of the 400 million guns.

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#16485

Post by Pretentious Hipster » February 10th, 2020, 4:47 pm

It doesn't matter who is to blame for 2016. It was clear that this was a strategy that failed. For this year the DNC thinks the best solution is to repeat those strategies. Those fucking idiots. Either that or they prefer fascism over socialism.

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#16486

Post by Pretentious Hipster » February 10th, 2020, 4:48 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
February 10th, 2020, 4:45 pm
Pretentious Hipster wrote:
February 10th, 2020, 4:41 pm
I swear to fucking god if Peter gets the nominee then it's clear that there needs to be a proletariat revolution because the elite is too powerful and the average american voter is too stupid.
How's that going to happen if most of us are too stupid? Don't forget that most of the stupid people in this country own most of the 400 million guns.
:lol: Good point. It just blows my mind that some of the working class thinks the people suited for them the most are the rich elites.

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#16487

Post by OldAle1 » February 10th, 2020, 5:05 pm

Pretentious Hipster wrote:
February 10th, 2020, 4:48 pm
OldAle1 wrote:
February 10th, 2020, 4:45 pm
Pretentious Hipster wrote:
February 10th, 2020, 4:41 pm
I swear to fucking god if Peter gets the nominee then it's clear that there needs to be a proletariat revolution because the elite is too powerful and the average american voter is too stupid.
How's that going to happen if most of us are too stupid? Don't forget that most of the stupid people in this country own most of the 400 million guns.
:lol: Good point. It just blows my mind that some of the working class thinks the people suited for them the most are the rich elites.
Well they were right to think that when FDR was in office but there aren't a lot of voters left who remember that. And the fact is that the way Trump sounds and talks is a LOT closer to Archie Bunker than any other candidate who's gotten far on the national stage over the last few decades. Everybody in the country ought to know but certainly everybody in politics ought to know that appearance and manner are way, way more important than reality. I bet if you asked 100 Trump voters if he was a self-made man well over half of them would say he is, and that he really understands their pain in a way that people who actually came out of challenging backgrounds like Bill Clinton, Barack Obama or Elizabeth Warren don't. We are a nation of idiots that don't look past the surface and that believe the people that scream the loudest, particularly if they have the language skills of grade schoolers, know the most and have the best political skills.

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#16488

Post by Pretentious Hipster » February 10th, 2020, 5:06 pm

Besides, Peter's (love to call him this) views are so inconsistent. It's clear that his only goal in life is to achieve his power fantasy of becoming the President, and everything he does is simply to help achieve that goal. Face it, he joined the military so late and was barely there. It's clear that he only did it for clout (and I've seen soldiers saying this about him). He morphs his views into whatever is popular at the time and will get him the most points.

On top of that, I'm sure I mentioned it before, but he's a gay man who volunteered multiple times for the infamously homophobic Salvation Army. Doesn't that say enough about what his goals are?

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#16489

Post by Pretentious Hipster » February 10th, 2020, 5:07 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
February 10th, 2020, 5:05 pm
Pretentious Hipster wrote:
February 10th, 2020, 4:48 pm
OldAle1 wrote:
February 10th, 2020, 4:45 pm


How's that going to happen if most of us are too stupid? Don't forget that most of the stupid people in this country own most of the 400 million guns.
:lol: Good point. It just blows my mind that some of the working class thinks the people suited for them the most are the rich elites.
Well they were right to think that when FDR was in office but there aren't a lot of voters left who remember that. And the fact is that the way Trump sounds and talks is a LOT closer to Archie Bunker than any other candidate who's gotten far on the national stage over the last few decades. Everybody in the country ought to know but certainly everybody in politics ought to know that appearance and manner are way, way more important than reality. I bet if you asked 100 Trump voters if he was a self-made man well over half of them would say he is, and that he really understands their pain in a way that people who actually came out of challenging backgrounds like Bill Clinton, Barack Obama or Elizabeth Warren don't. We are a nation of idiots that don't look past the surface and that believe the people that scream the loudest, particularly if they have the language skills of grade schoolers, know the most and have the best political skills.
It's actually a funny thing about the way Trump talks. The first thing I learned when I took business was that you have to keep your style of speech simple and accessible which may be why I also very rarely use jargon and partake in thesaurus abuse. He most likely learned that in school too, but it seems like it took it a bit too far.

Wasn't his family rich anyways? Wouldn't call that a self-made man at all. I see people saying the same with Elon Musk, and his family owned a mine...

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#16490

Post by OldAle1 » February 10th, 2020, 5:10 pm

Maybe he's just a masochist? Or so egotistical he thinks he can change the SA? Or he's ignorant of their history (which would be scary for a presidential candidate but then ignorance never seems to stop anyone).

I've honestly paid very little attention to him, because I still don't believe that a gay man who has little appeal among black voters has a real shot at this. I guess we'll have more evidence quite soon but I think S Carolina will be the key and if Biden and Klobuchar are both still running strong into that race, and Pete doesn't finish in the top 2-3 there I think it will bode ill for his future.

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#16491

Post by Pretentious Hipster » February 10th, 2020, 5:16 pm

If it makes you feel better, Canada has been going through some shit where even the United Nations stepped in:

https://thenarwhal.ca/what-cost-are-hum ... -standoff/
https://globalnews.ca/news/6528427/wets ... nt-sunday/

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#16492

Post by OldAle1 » February 10th, 2020, 5:18 pm

Pretentious Hipster wrote:
February 10th, 2020, 5:07 pm


It's actually a funny thing about the way Trump talks. The first thing I learned when I took business was that you have to keep your style of speech simple and accessible which may be why I also very rarely use jargon and partake in thesaurus abuse. He most likely learned that in school too, but it seems like it took it a bit too far.

Wasn't his family rich anyways? Wouldn't call that a self-made man at all. I see people saying the same with Elon Musk, and his family owned a mine...
His grandfather moved to BC from Germany to avoid military service and opened up whorehouses in 1885, amassed a fortune and moved to NYC. Couldn't make up a more fitting background if you tried. So Trump's dad was born with money, but he married a *gasp* poor immigrant from Scotland who spoke English as a second language. He has then wealth going back a couple of generations, but also immigrant poverty in his immediate family history. You'd think... eh, why think when it comes to this fuck.

I"m sure some of his speech was initially deliberate, in the same way all of us learn to talk the way we want to talk, but his minimal vocabulary probably comes from him just not being that smart and certainly not well educated at all, and he clearly has a very severe case of ADD, he just can't and doesn't want to focus on anything for any length of time. The only reason he sometimes gives long speeches is that his unbelievable ego takes over and he just loves to hear himself babble.

Humphrey Bogart, interestingly enough, came from a very wealthy NYC family and he deliberately developed a lower-class speech pattern to help him better portray the gangster-criminal types that were his bread and butter in the early years. But if you watch some of his earliest films you get a little of that upper-crust Manhattan accent sneaking through. I wonder if we heard Trump speaking during college back in the 60s we'd find that he sounded more "elite"?

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#16493

Post by Dolwphin » February 10th, 2020, 6:40 pm

NH RCP Poll Average.

Sanders - 28.7 %
Pete - 21.3 %
Amy - 11.7 %
Warren - 11.0 %
Joe - 11.0 %
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#16494

Post by Dolwphin » February 10th, 2020, 8:41 pm

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#16495

Post by matthewscott8 » February 11th, 2020, 9:15 am

Pretentious Hipster wrote:
February 10th, 2020, 5:16 pm
If it makes you feel better, Canada has been going through some shit where even the United Nations stepped in:

https://thenarwhal.ca/what-cost-are-hum ... -standoff/
https://globalnews.ca/news/6528427/wets ... nt-sunday/
I can actually understand your political affiliation after reading that.

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#16496

Post by tirefeet » February 11th, 2020, 11:55 am



:(

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#16497

Post by Cippenham » February 11th, 2020, 12:17 pm

Pretentious Hipster wrote:
February 10th, 2020, 4:41 pm
I swear to fucking god if Peter gets the nominee then it's clear that there needs to be a proletariat revolution because the elite is too powerful and the average american voter is too stupid.
No need as they have Trump

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#16498

Post by matthewscott8 » February 11th, 2020, 2:12 pm

tirefeet wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 11:55 am


:(
It seems absolute madness that this is a question relating to US elections. More than twice as many people die every year from lack of health insurance in the US as are murdered in the US, and then consider that the US has the highest murder rate of any large developed nation. How about, leave the middle east alone and treat people's medical health issues. Why isn't that the policy of every single candidate?

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#16499

Post by Onderhond » February 11th, 2020, 2:35 pm

Cippenham wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 12:17 pm
No need as they have Trump
If you have Trump as your ally, you don't need enemies.
It's like turning to alcohol to cure your troubles.

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#16500

Post by OldAle1 » February 11th, 2020, 2:48 pm

matthewscott8 wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 2:12 pm

It seems absolute madness that this is a question relating to US elections. More than twice as many people die every year from lack of health insurance in the US as are murdered in the US, and then consider that the US has the highest murder rate of any large developed nation. How about, leave the middle east alone and treat people's medical health issues. Why isn't that the policy of every single candidate?
It may seem that way, especially to a non-American, but trust me questions involving the middle east are absolutely central to a good chunk of US voters. Jewish Americans, Muslim American, Evangelicals (those probably most of all) and people in general who want to keep gas prices low and worry about terrorism. The middle east, Israel, Palestine, Iran have all been central in the American mind since the 1970s and it's not going away. I think it's quite easy to see why it's so important to so many people here actually - whether it's justified or not is another question, but it's a huge part of the national psyche: we have to make sure the middle east runs the way America wants it to.

But as to why it presents a greater topic in the consciousness of many folks that climate change, health care or gun violence, well, that's a different story. I think a part of it unfortunately is that a large chunk of people here believe that all three of those issues are absolutely unsolvable, particularly the first and third - health care is I guess something that a few people still think has room to change dramatically. But 40% of voters never hear the good stories about national health care elsewhere, they only hear the nightmare stories of abortion-on-demand and hours of wait-times for heart attack patients, so they put up with our crappy system because FOX tells them it can't get any better, plus Jesus was uninsured you know.

Also the Palestinian question is always good copy - if you get an answer at all outside the norm, you end up with a story that might break into the news cycle, and what reporter doesn't want that?

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#16501

Post by Dolwphin » February 11th, 2020, 3:51 pm

Amy takes the lead in New Hampshire!

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#16502

Post by Dolwphin » February 11th, 2020, 3:59 pm


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#16503

Post by Dolwphin » February 11th, 2020, 5:40 pm

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#16504

Post by St. Gloede » February 11th, 2020, 6:29 pm

This is really refreshing and great: The Sanders campaign has started calling out the fake Liberal identity politics:


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#16505

Post by brokenface » February 11th, 2020, 7:26 pm

St. Gloede wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 6:29 pm
This is really refreshing and great: The Sanders campaign has started calling out the fake Liberal identity politics:
The way to beat Trump is not by having fights about identity politics.

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#16506

Post by OldAle1 » February 11th, 2020, 7:43 pm

brokenface wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 7:26 pm
St. Gloede wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 6:29 pm
This is really refreshing and great: The Sanders campaign has started calling out the fake Liberal identity politics:
The way to beat Trump is not by having fights about identity politics.
That's definitely part of it. "We're for everybody and we've got all kinds of people running for office on every level" is a big contrast to "old white men forever". And you don't actually have to spell it out to most people apart from the small number of idiots who actually believe the Reps are the ones who are inclusive and welcoming.

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#16507

Post by St. Gloede » February 11th, 2020, 9:08 pm

brokenface wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 7:26 pm
St. Gloede wrote:
February 11th, 2020, 6:29 pm
This is really refreshing and great: The Sanders campaign has started calling out the fake Liberal identity politics:
The way to beat Trump is not by having fights about identity politics.
The media and liberal/right wing Democratic campaigns consistently use weaponized identity politics to attack the Sanders campaign.

Unity can't go one way, and while the campaign has been purposefully timid and taking it out of fear of any resistance to the attacks will be blown up as divisive, but when the mask slips off in very obvious ways it is good to call these people out.

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#16508

Post by Dolwphin » February 11th, 2020, 11:11 pm

The black woman - Barbara Smith - who coined the term "identity politics" actually endorsed Bernie Sanders for president.
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#16509

Post by St. Gloede » February 11th, 2020, 11:21 pm

Yup, and she was working for the campaign back in '16. (granted, she co-coined it).

It is getting more and more and more difficult for Liberals to play their "Identity Politics" card.

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#16510

Post by Dolwphin » February 11th, 2020, 11:28 pm

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#16511

Post by St. Gloede » February 11th, 2020, 11:31 pm

I wonder if Liberals will swing their talking points in a completely different direction now that Sanders has such a visibly diverse set of surrogates and supporters.

And oh ffs, how is Bloomberg leading anything?

I guess that's it. If they can't shame people away from voting for healthcare, they'll just put in a billionaire who is arguably to the right of Trump, is demonstrably in favor of hurting minorities.




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#16512

Post by Dolwphin » February 11th, 2020, 11:38 pm

Bloomberg is spending hundreds of millions on ads in Super Tuesday States. Other campaigns have probably spent very limited amount in Arkansas.
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#16513

Post by Dolwphin » February 11th, 2020, 11:47 pm

538 actually have quite a neat feature that tracks TV-ads spending. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/20 ... &market=ar

Bloomberg: 20 Ads - $1.78M
Steyer: 2 Ads - $40K
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#16514

Post by Dolwphin » February 12th, 2020, 12:01 am

New Hampshire.

Steyer - 28 Ads - $3M
Yang - 9 Ads - $1.33M
Sanders - 12 Ads - $1.18M
Warren - 5 Ads - $740K
Amy - 9 Ads - $600K
Pete - 7 Ads - $600K
Gabbard - 5 Ads - $500K
Joe - 2 Ads - $81K
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#16515

Post by Dolwphin » February 12th, 2020, 12:05 am

Nevada.

Steyer - 33 Ads - $10.4M
Sanders - 4 Ads - $480K
Warren - 3 Ads - $430K
Joe - 2 Ads - $290K
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#16516

Post by Dolwphin » February 12th, 2020, 1:08 am

Andrew Yang drops out. 10 candidates left.
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#16517

Post by Dolwphin » February 12th, 2020, 1:13 am

Sanders lead by 1700 Votes. 10 % reporting.
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#16518

Post by Dolwphin » February 12th, 2020, 1:18 am

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#16519

Post by Dolwphin » February 12th, 2020, 1:34 am

Michael Bennet drops out of the race. 9 candidates left.
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#16520

Post by Dolwphin » February 12th, 2020, 2:51 am

Sanders lead by 4000+ votes. 50 % reporting.
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