Welcome to the ICM Forum. If you have an account but have trouble logging in, or have other questions, see THIS THREAD.
Podcast: Talking Images (Episode 9 released July 7th)
Polls: 2010s (Results), 1974 (Results), 2019 awards (Jul 11th), 0 Official Lists (Jul 31st)
Challenges: Canada, Low Rated, Director
Film of the Week: Picture of Light, August nominations (Jul 31st)
World Cup S4: Round 2 schedule, Match 2E: Georgia vs Ukraine (Jul 16th), Match 2F: Germany vs Iran (Jul 26th)

US Politics thread

Post Reply
Cippenham
Donator
Posts: 13316
Joined: May 09, 2011
Location: Dorset England
Contact:

Re: US Politics thread

#15201

Post by Cippenham » August 23rd, 2019, 11:11 am

Unless its Joe 😀

Cippenham
Donator
Posts: 13316
Joined: May 09, 2011
Location: Dorset England
Contact:

#15202

Post by Cippenham » August 23rd, 2019, 11:14 am

In American terms what is the difference between socialism and liberalism?

User avatar
Dolwphin
Posts: 4368
Joined: Jul 10, 2011
Location: Sweden
Contact:

#15203

Post by Dolwphin » August 23rd, 2019, 11:21 am

Sanders says he is a democratic socialist if asked the Q. Warren emphasizes that she is a proud capitalist. So don't agree, from what i have seen, about the rhetoric. And that label have opened up valuable discourse space, widened the overtone window.

That electoral map looks about right, but if Biden is nominee then Michigan could reverse your prediction.
Top 250 | RYM | Letterboxd

Member of the Experimental Mafia | What's My Line? #1 Fan

User avatar
Lakigigar
Posts: 1325
Joined: Oct 31, 2015
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#15204

Post by Lakigigar » August 23rd, 2019, 1:17 pm

Moulton drops out, warning the party how far-left it is going and that it will be harder to defeat Trump.

Well BYEEEEEE, won't miss you.

User avatar
Lakigigar
Posts: 1325
Joined: Oct 31, 2015
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#15205

Post by Lakigigar » August 23rd, 2019, 1:18 pm

St. Gloede wrote:
August 23rd, 2019, 10:50 am
Wait, did "Isidewith" literally add every single Democrat, except Biden, as moderate to extreme socialists ...

They are literally Liberals, the majority are full-on capitalists.

Even Sanders supports Capitalism (at least in platform and rhetoric, hard to say what he thinks personally of course).
Socialism isn't communism but more like regulationism and social democracy, and most of them have became social democrats or social liberals. No, there are no communists running, that's true. Sanders is also a democratic socialist, but others like Warren are social democrats.

User avatar
St. Gloede
Moderator
Posts: 10885
Joined: May 06, 2011
Contact:

#15206

Post by St. Gloede » August 23rd, 2019, 1:50 pm

Dolwphin wrote:
August 23rd, 2019, 11:21 am
Sanders says he is a democratic socialist if asked the Q. Warren emphasizes that she is a proud capitalist. So don't agree, from what i have seen, about the rhetoric. And that label have opened up valuable discourse space, widened the overtone window.

That electoral map looks about right, but if Biden is nominee then Michigan could reverse your prediction.
Sanders have made it clear, time and time again, that he is not advocating replacing capitalism.

Democratic Socialists (more specifically, members of most common ideological group using this label) are still pro-capitalism.

Democratic Socialism is when the economy is democratically accountable and the will of the people is the ultimate authority - not when private property/capitalism is removed.

The term has of course also been used to define ideologies and strategies such as Fabian Socialism, "Evolutionary Socialism", and Gradualism advocating the transition to a socialist economy. This is the other major movement using the label - and it can cause some major confusion around what the term means.

(It has also been used to describe ideologies advocating a socialist economy organized through democracy, and movements advocating for a parliamentary system - or any other form of democracy, next to a socialist economy).

So yes, I can see why defining himself as a Democratic Socialism could make people believe he is a Socialist. He is however very clear about the distinctions between Democratic Socialism and Socialism. This is the ideology of Olof Palme, Trygve Bratteli, etc. Or for a more contemporary example: Ed Miliband not Jeremy Corbyn.

User avatar
St. Gloede
Moderator
Posts: 10885
Joined: May 06, 2011
Contact:

#15207

Post by St. Gloede » August 23rd, 2019, 2:03 pm

Lakigigar wrote:
August 23rd, 2019, 1:18 pm
St. Gloede wrote:
August 23rd, 2019, 10:50 am
Wait, did "Isidewith" literally add every single Democrat, except Biden, as moderate to extreme socialists ...

They are literally Liberals, the majority are full-on capitalists.

Even Sanders supports Capitalism (at least in platform and rhetoric, hard to say what he thinks personally of course).
Socialism isn't communism but more like regulationism and social democracy, and most of them have became social democrats or social liberals. No, there are no communists running, that's true. Sanders is also a democratic socialist, but others like Warren are social democrats.
It is true that Democratic Socialism is essentially Social Democracy+, but Democratic Socialists are not advocating for a socialist economy.

- Social Democracy is a mixed Economy between State Socialism and (Social) Liberalism.
- Social Liberalism is just capitalism with welfare/social justice.

Socialism is a pretty broad spectrum, and refers to both ideologies and economic systems. Some include Democratic Socialists in the usage of the ideological term. This is because even though they oppose (or at least does not argue for) a socialist economy - they advocate collective control of the economy.

However, if we focus on the economic definition socialism is when the workers or the people (or the consumers, members, stakeholders, etc.) own and control the means of production. This extends to everything from State Socialism to Co-Operative Economies and fully free market worker-owned economies like Mutualism - to hybrids between worker and collective power like Collectivism, Guild Socialism, etc.

Communism is typically considered as one step further left, though it does fall under the Socialist umbrella. Specifically, communism advocates a stateless, borderless, moneyless society. There is often a distinction made between Low Communism (which can be seen as more similar to standard socialism, i.e. the workers are rewarded based on labor) and High Communism (resources are divided based on need). This distinction is only really relevant in Marxist theory however. That said, most other socialist ideologies advocate moving towards a Post-Scarcity economy, which has many similarities to High Communism.

User avatar
Dolwphin
Posts: 4368
Joined: Jul 10, 2011
Location: Sweden
Contact:

#15208

Post by Dolwphin » August 23rd, 2019, 2:17 pm

St. Gloede wrote:
August 23rd, 2019, 1:50 pm
Dolwphin wrote:
August 23rd, 2019, 11:21 am
Sanders says he is a democratic socialist if asked the Q. Warren emphasizes that she is a proud capitalist. So don't agree, from what i have seen, about the rhetoric. And that label have opened up valuable discourse space, widened the overtone window.

That electoral map looks about right, but if Biden is nominee then Michigan could reverse your prediction.
Sanders have made it clear, time and time again, that he is not advocating replacing capitalism.

Democratic Socialists (more specifically, members of most common ideological group using this label) are still pro-capitalism.

Democratic Socialism is when the economy is democratically accountable and the will of the people is the ultimate authority - not when private property/capitalism is removed.

The term has of course also been used to define ideologies and strategies such as Fabian Socialism, "Evolutionary Socialism", and Gradualism advocating the transition to a socialist economy. This is the other major movement using the label - and it can cause some major confusion around what the term means.

(It has also been used to describe ideologies advocating a socialist economy organized through democracy, and movements advocating for a parliamentary system - or any other form of democracy, next to a socialist economy).

So yes, I can see why defining himself as a Democratic Socialism could make people believe he is a Socialist. He is however very clear about the distinctions between Democratic Socialism and Socialism. This is the ideology of Olof Palme, Trygve Bratteli, etc. Or for a more contemporary example: Ed Miliband not Jeremy Corbyn.
Democratic socialism now also means social democracy, and specifically the mixed economy model of the Nordic countries, in the US. Sanders don't consider himself a capitalist, he is funded by the people & labor unions for the most part. He is even quite supportive of worker co-ops. Yes in a scholarly narrow way he might be a "capitalist".
Top 250 | RYM | Letterboxd

Member of the Experimental Mafia | What's My Line? #1 Fan

User avatar
Dolwphin
Posts: 4368
Joined: Jul 10, 2011
Location: Sweden
Contact:

#15209

Post by Dolwphin » August 23rd, 2019, 2:25 pm

Lakigigar wrote:
August 23rd, 2019, 1:17 pm
Moulton drops out, warning the party how far-left it is going and that it will be harder to defeat Trump.

Well BYEEEEEE, won't miss you.
21 candidates left ... :guns:
Top 250 | RYM | Letterboxd

Member of the Experimental Mafia | What's My Line? #1 Fan

User avatar
GruesomeTwosome
Donator
Posts: 3043
Joined: Feb 03, 2017
Location: Industrial Wasteland, USA
Contact:

#15210

Post by GruesomeTwosome » August 23rd, 2019, 2:32 pm

Moulton? Fuck, I don't even know who that is. :shrug: I imagine I'm not alone in that more people probably know who he is now after his dropping-out announcement than while he was actually "running."
Last edited by GruesomeTwosome on August 23rd, 2019, 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I’m to remember every man I've seen fall into a plate of spaghetti???

My IMDB profile
ICM
Letterboxd

User avatar
St. Gloede
Moderator
Posts: 10885
Joined: May 06, 2011
Contact:

#15211

Post by St. Gloede » August 23rd, 2019, 2:34 pm

The point was not to make the claim that Sanders is right-wing in any sense, simply to point out that he is not advocating in favour of replacing the capitalist economy with a socialist economy.

If he was listed in the "moderate" category in the slide above - with all others listed as opposed, I would have had no issue with it. It is just really silly toi list Liberals as Socialists and an ultra moderate Democratic Socialist as "extreme" - by any standard.

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7642
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#15212

Post by xianjiro » August 23rd, 2019, 10:56 pm

Quote of the day when someone I know was asked what issues matter most in the 2020 election cycle:
defeat Trump and avoid socialism
(source withheld)

The distinctions are all well and good for us interested in politics and economic theory, but I still really believe that for the swath of 'middle America' who are considered 'swing voters', these distinctions aren't relevant. The choice, as they see it, is between the great system we have today and life in the USSR. We can argue with them about 'Scandisocialism' and 'social democracy', but at the end of the day, too many Americans are simply put off by the very idea of socialism. Thus why the Rs want to paint all Ds as 'socialist' and you-know-who as the only capitalist alternative.

And on to the fascist front, BBC is reporting:
"Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China," Mr Trump tweeted earlier on Friday.
Of course, for now, this is just empty rhetoric, but I can hypothesize how he could use both executive action and federal rules to put teeth into such an 'order.'

Markets are not happy and while I think most will shrug this off as yet more ravings of a madman, we'll have to wait and see what happens next.

Liked this quote from Yahoo Finance
"It is mind-boggling," said Ken Polcari, managing principal at Butcher Joseph Asset Management in New York. "On one day (Trump) tells you everything is going great with China and today he is saying everyone get out of China."

"That is why the market is taking the most recent dive south is just because of (Trump's) tweets," Polcari added. "Not because of Jackson Hole or anything Powell said. It's all driven by the anxiety and it's Friday and a lot can happen over the weekend."
Further, his attack on Powell is so bigly unpresidented. I'm no longer willing to bet the markets won't view Shithole as too big a risk: keep this sort of stuff up much longer and their love of his free-wheeling, outside-the-beltwayrealm-of-sanity style will start to wear thin. It probably isn't too much of a stretch to say that many on Wall Street believe the fed can do no wrong. Will be interesting to see how the markets react if Shithole keeps this up.

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

Cippenham
Donator
Posts: 13316
Joined: May 09, 2011
Location: Dorset England
Contact:

#15213

Post by Cippenham » August 24th, 2019, 5:25 am

The real leaders are the Squad and this is what Trump will attempt to make people believe. If he succeeds the official leader does not matter as the Squad policies are the democrat policies.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.busi ... uad-2019-7

Cippenham
Donator
Posts: 13316
Joined: May 09, 2011
Location: Dorset England
Contact:

#15214

Post by Cippenham » August 25th, 2019, 3:03 pm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -stop.html

Joe Biden does not even know where he is 😃

User avatar
Kublai Khan
Posts: 1122
Joined: Nov 09, 2014
Location: Sarasota, FL
Contact:

#15215

Post by Kublai Khan » August 25th, 2019, 8:25 pm



Yeah, that didn't happen. Nobody asked him those things.

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7642
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#15216

Post by xianjiro » August 26th, 2019, 12:07 am

Wonder how those who were unenthused about supporting Hillary will feel about Uncle Joe.

My dislike of him spans decades - centuries even.

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
Lakigigar
Posts: 1325
Joined: Oct 31, 2015
Location: Belgium
Contact:

#15217

Post by Lakigigar » August 26th, 2019, 12:17 pm

We will never support Biden! Never submit to Uncle Joe. Stay true to your principles! Bernie is my bro, Ojeda is my bestie, Yang is my gangstaboy and AOC is my queen.

User avatar
Dolwphin
Posts: 4368
Joined: Jul 10, 2011
Location: Sweden
Contact:

#15218

Post by Dolwphin » August 26th, 2019, 4:12 pm

Lakigigar wrote:
August 26th, 2019, 12:17 pm
We will never support Biden! Never submit to Uncle Joe. Stay true to your principles! Bernie is my bro, Ojeda is my bestie, Yang is my gangstaboy and AOC is my queen.
His name is Handsy Uncle Joseph. :poshclap:
Top 250 | RYM | Letterboxd

Member of the Experimental Mafia | What's My Line? #1 Fan

User avatar
Kublai Khan
Posts: 1122
Joined: Nov 09, 2014
Location: Sarasota, FL
Contact:

#15219

Post by Kublai Khan » August 26th, 2019, 5:20 pm

Lakigigar wrote:
August 26th, 2019, 12:17 pm
We will never support Biden! Never submit to Uncle Joe. Stay true to your principles! Bernie is my bro, Ojeda is my bestie, Yang is my gangstaboy and AOC is my queen.
You don't live here, though. So none of that matters.

User avatar
Dolwphin
Posts: 4368
Joined: Jul 10, 2011
Location: Sweden
Contact:

#15220

Post by Dolwphin » August 26th, 2019, 5:49 pm

Top 250 | RYM | Letterboxd

Member of the Experimental Mafia | What's My Line? #1 Fan

User avatar
St. Gloede
Moderator
Posts: 10885
Joined: May 06, 2011
Contact:

#15221

Post by St. Gloede » August 27th, 2019, 7:18 am

Now that is a beautiful sight.

(Still scary that Biden is in an almost 3 way tie, but let's hope he keeps talking - he needs to spread his message far and wide)

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7642
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#15222

Post by xianjiro » August 27th, 2019, 8:08 am

alas, we've seen what endless wagging of one's tongue gets one with political ambitions

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
Dolwphin
Posts: 4368
Joined: Jul 10, 2011
Location: Sweden
Contact:

#15223

Post by Dolwphin » August 27th, 2019, 11:35 am

Some TMZ news.

Top 250 | RYM | Letterboxd

Member of the Experimental Mafia | What's My Line? #1 Fan

User avatar
Kublai Khan
Posts: 1122
Joined: Nov 09, 2014
Location: Sarasota, FL
Contact:

#15224

Post by Kublai Khan » August 27th, 2019, 8:40 pm

The FEC is basically gutted and toothless at this point.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 124236001/

2020 is going to be a shit-show of unchecked corruption. Goddamn Trump

User avatar
Dolwphin
Posts: 4368
Joined: Jul 10, 2011
Location: Sweden
Contact:

#15225

Post by Dolwphin » August 27th, 2019, 8:58 pm

is that the agency with 3 GOP, 3 Dem lackeys who never convict anybody?
Top 250 | RYM | Letterboxd

Member of the Experimental Mafia | What's My Line? #1 Fan

User avatar
Kublai Khan
Posts: 1122
Joined: Nov 09, 2014
Location: Sarasota, FL
Contact:

#15226

Post by Kublai Khan » August 27th, 2019, 9:16 pm

The Republican majority in the Senate has been hamstringing it for years. By law, they are limited to a maximum of 3 of any particular party, but they've been running with only 4 for a while. One of them is resigning in September so they can't even form their minimum quorum of 4 members agreeing.

Republicans yell about voter fraud a lot, but actively take down the watchdog agency.

User avatar
sebby
Posts: 6371
Joined: Jul 04, 2011
Contact:

#15227

Post by sebby » August 29th, 2019, 1:54 am

Was resigned to having to vote for Kamala or Joe, but the cream is rising to the top. Either Warren or Bernie would be fucking great.

User avatar
Cocoa
Donator
Posts: 1803
Joined: Jul 17, 2013
Location: Chicago, USA
Contact:

#15228

Post by Cocoa » August 29th, 2019, 3:40 am

Kirsten Gillibrand dropped out today after not qualifying for the next debate. She has been my #1 for probably 99% of the presidential primary race. She's going to focus on helping to flip the Senate and get women elected (l)

Now my order of preference is
1. Kamala Harris
2. Amy Klobuchar
3. Beto O'Rouke
4. Julián Castro
(and I guess Booker would be my fifth if I'm making a top five, but I don't see myself supporting him unless all the others I support drop out which is unlikely to happen)

My number two can possibly change within the next few months. I doubt Kamala Harris would be replaced by someone else as my number one.

Cippenham
Donator
Posts: 13316
Joined: May 09, 2011
Location: Dorset England
Contact:

#15229

Post by Cippenham » August 29th, 2019, 3:57 am

I hope Joe Biden is the candidate. In a recent speech he couldn’t remember Obama’s name. It would be amusing if he won.

User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 4338
Joined: Dec 23, 2012
Contact:

#15230

Post by Onderhond » August 29th, 2019, 6:36 am

Cippenham wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 3:57 am
I hope Joe Biden is the candidate. In a recent speech he couldn’t remember Obama’s name. It would be amusing if he won.
I think we've seen enough "amusing" politicians now, time to get some actual qualified people in charge again. I'm a bit bored of all these clowns hogging the news with their stupidities.
Last edited by Onderhond on August 29th, 2019, 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7642
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#15231

Post by xianjiro » August 29th, 2019, 7:17 am

Onderhond wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 6:36 am
Cippenham wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 3:57 am
I hope Joe Biden is the candidate. In a recent speech he couldn’t remember Obama’s name. It would be amusing if he won.
I think we've seen enough "amusing" politicians now, time to get some actual qualified people in charge again. I'm a bit bored of Al these clowns hogging the news with their stupidities.
:poshclap: amen

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
3eyes
Donator
Posts: 6981
Joined: May 17, 2011
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

#15232

Post by 3eyes » August 29th, 2019, 11:05 am

I just don't have the energy to follow the Democratic circus. I'll vote for whoever they pick but I hope Howard Schultz doesn't get into the act.

Meanwhile, I wrote this a couple days ago (Tune: America the beautiful)

Though skies and seams are overcast,
and also epic films,
they can’t compare with all the ghast-
ly happenings in the realms
of You-Know-Who. I want to sleep
till this testosterone-
polluted narcissistic creep
is truly overthrown.
:run: STILL the Gaffer!

User avatar
Pretentious Hipster
Donator
Posts: 20262
Joined: Oct 24, 2011
Contact:

#15233

Post by Pretentious Hipster » August 29th, 2019, 12:23 pm

No offense Cocoa but you confuse me. You praised Kamala for her left wing views but you seem to hate the more left candidates. Kamala is the worst in that regard as her opinion and policies depend on who she's talking to. Amy is one of the most centrist/right-wing candidates. Beto is a laughing stock and I don't think he expressed an opinion yet except wanting everything to work for everyone.

User avatar
Dolwphin
Posts: 4368
Joined: Jul 10, 2011
Location: Sweden
Contact:

#15234

Post by Dolwphin » August 29th, 2019, 2:23 pm

Kirsten Gillibrand drops out. 20 candidates left.
Top 250 | RYM | Letterboxd

Member of the Experimental Mafia | What's My Line? #1 Fan

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 7642
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#15235

Post by xianjiro » August 29th, 2019, 7:24 pm

3eyes wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 11:05 am
I just don't have the energy to follow the Democratic circus. I'll vote for whoever they pick but I hope Howard Schultz doesn't get into the act.

Meanwhile, I wrote this a couple days ago (Tune: America the beautiful)

Though skies and seams are overcast,
and also epic films,
they can’t compare with all the ghast-
ly happenings in the realms
of You-Know-Who. I want to sleep
till this testosterone-
polluted narcissistic creep
is truly overthrown.
:poshclap: amen

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

Cippenham
Donator
Posts: 13316
Joined: May 09, 2011
Location: Dorset England
Contact:

#15236

Post by Cippenham » August 29th, 2019, 7:50 pm

A poem for Trump

Roses are red
Like, so red
So red you won’t even believe that they’re real roses
Trust me, I know roses
And those roses are red

User avatar
3eyes
Donator
Posts: 6981
Joined: May 17, 2011
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

#15237

Post by 3eyes » August 29th, 2019, 9:33 pm

Cippenham wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 7:50 pm
A poem for Trump

Roses are red
Like, so red
So red you won’t even believe that they’re real roses
Trust me, I know roses
And those roses are red
And they wouldn't be red without me
:run: STILL the Gaffer!

Cippenham
Donator
Posts: 13316
Joined: May 09, 2011
Location: Dorset England
Contact:

#15238

Post by Cippenham » August 29th, 2019, 9:52 pm

With Trump they could be Orange actually

User avatar
Kublai Khan
Posts: 1122
Joined: Nov 09, 2014
Location: Sarasota, FL
Contact:

#15239

Post by Kublai Khan » August 29th, 2019, 9:55 pm

3eyes wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 9:33 pm
Cippenham wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 7:50 pm
A poem for Trump

Roses are red
Like, so red
So red you won’t even believe that they’re real roses
Trust me, I know roses
And those roses are red
And they wouldn't be red without me
Everyone says so.

User avatar
Cocoa
Donator
Posts: 1803
Joined: Jul 17, 2013
Location: Chicago, USA
Contact:

#15240

Post by Cocoa » August 29th, 2019, 10:26 pm

XxXApathy420XxX wrote:
August 29th, 2019, 12:23 pm
No offense Cocoa but you confuse me. You praised Kamala for her left wing views but you seem to hate the more left candidates. Kamala is the worst in that regard as her opinion and policies depend on who she's talking to. Amy is one of the most centrist/right-wing candidates. Beto is a laughing stock and I don't think he expressed an opinion yet except wanting everything to work for everyone.
Kamala Harris is genuine to me. Her platforms appeal to me. She's an ally to the LGBTQ+ community, she has tackled on big banks during her time as California Attorney General and getting results, she's good on gun safety, she has a healthcare platform that I agree enough with, she wants to raise the pay for teachers, she has good platforms for those living in apartments and her LIFT Act would give people a tax cut who don't make a certain amount of money, today she released a good disability platform, etc. Also, she's a former prosecutor. I would love for her to make great DoJ picks that result in her administration sending Trump to prison after he's out of office.

None of the candidates are perfect. There are people who are absolute nos for me, there are people who I'm okay with but they don't inspire me, and then there are candidates I support because I share enough of their beliefs and I know they would get stuff done as president. I support Amy primarily because of the amount of legislation she got passed in Congress. I would love someone more liberal than her but I don't see a liberal candidate that appeals to me besides Harris and Castro (and Beto who appears to be more liberal now than how he was while in Congress). Beto is a candidate that is good on gun control and frequently references the need for paid family leave. I share enough common ground with both of them. When Beto first entered the race, he wasn't even in my top five, but Warren fell out of grace with me due to certain things she has said and proposed during the campaign cycle and she moved to my no category (although I would vote for her in the primary if it was between her, Biden, and Sanders but I doubt it will be a three-person race between only them).

I don't hate the more left wing candidates. There aren't many people in the race that are to the left of Kamala. There are lots of reasons why I don't support Sanders and it's not because he's left-wing. Warren is the only other off the top of my head that can be considered more left wing than Kamala, but I don't hate her. I love that she wants to tax the rich and I'm fine with her college loan debt plan.

Out of the remaining people who made it to the next DNC debate: I already stated that Booker is my fifth (but his rhetoric on certain topics is too weak for me and he's a strong supporter of charter schools and charters schools has had harmful impacts in the state I grew up in),Biden is not left wing, Buttigieg is not left wing. and... Yang has no legislative or executive experience working in government so I'm not going to refer to him as left or right wing. Out of those that didn't qualify that haven't dropped out yet: Michael Bennet is not left wing based off what I've seen in the debates, Steve Bullock is someone I would not consider left wing based off his debate performance, Bill de Blasio is... more left wing than those already mentioned in this paragraph but he has issues like how he handles police misconduct which was evident in the last debate, Tulsi Gabbard is right wing in my eyes and I am rooting for her primary opponent to win her House seat, Wayne Messam is someone who I know nothing of his policies but he's somehow in this race, Tim Ryan is not left wing, Joe Sestek from what I've heard of him doesn't appear to be left wing, Tom Steyer is in the Andrew Yang category of lacking legislative/executive experience (and he wants Trump impeached but he jumped in the race so late and spent millions of dollars he could have used on flipping the Senate and state legislative seats), Marianne Williamson is in the Andrew Yang category of lacking legislative/executive experience (she lacks a lot of policies and she has done a lot of harmful stuff in the past like how she convinced gay people they deserve to have AIDS during the 1980s).

Post Reply