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Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 14th, 2019, 4:42 pm
by Cippenham
You had the choice of a criminal with terrible failed policies or a lying potential lunatic with some good policies. You may get a similar choice but now we know Trump is not so crazy after all and has some good achievements the choice is clear -but yes his character is flawed obviously

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 14th, 2019, 4:46 pm
by Cippenham
People care most about secure borders- economic security and cultural security and on these he has delivered or tried despite Dems attempts to stop him. They want mass illegal immigration terrible socialism and care only about minority interests. What good is that to an average American working person

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 14th, 2019, 5:39 pm
by Cocoa
Sanders is now attacking ThinkProgress and he's getting mad that he's constantly getting asked questions in interviews about his wealth. It's going to be a long primary -_-

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 14th, 2019, 11:44 pm
by xianjiro
Kublai Khan wrote:
April 14th, 2019, 4:09 pm

At some point you've got to wake up and stop believing liars.
at some point, we all realize that Cipp believes he is the only one who is awake. :shrug:

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 15th, 2019, 1:08 am
by Kublai Khan

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 15th, 2019, 3:52 am
by Grunge Rock & Ally McBeal
Well they both agree on endless wars and kowtowing to the top 1%.

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 15th, 2019, 8:28 am
by Cippenham
It is not good that Trump is a liar but look what he does not what he says and his policies are good and have some success. He is only remarkable that his lies are blatant and obvious but standard politicians still tell lies but in a clever way.

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 15th, 2019, 2:52 pm
by Gershwin
Kublai Khan wrote:
April 15th, 2019, 1:08 am
This is really depressing.

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 15th, 2019, 6:38 pm
by XxXApathy420XxX

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 15th, 2019, 6:53 pm
by Cocoa
Apparently there is going to be a redacted Mueller report released to Congress and the public on Thursday morning.

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 15th, 2019, 9:55 pm
by PirateJenny
Drunk posting - wrong thread.

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 15th, 2019, 10:26 pm
by Cocoa
Sanders finally released his taxes :party:

https://berniesanders.com/tax-returns/

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 16th, 2019, 1:57 am
by Cocoa
I can actually only see one year on Bernie's site and idk if that's just me :unsure: So here's a different link that has everyone on it https://www.taxnotes.com/presidential-tax-returns

He has two different fonts for his numbers on his 2018 return which is weird (page 16 on line 7).
I think I laughed a little on year 2009 at how he puts his wife's name on the wrong line and scratches it out.

Also, Bernie's town hall on Fox News was tonight.

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 16th, 2019, 2:22 am
by XxXApathy420XxX

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 16th, 2019, 2:49 am
by Kublai Khan
James Adomian is hilarious.

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 16th, 2019, 10:23 am
by St. Gloede
Sanders did a brilliant job at the Fox News Town Hall despite the hostile hosts (though he got hostile back), well done going on and hopefully spreading the progressive/democratic socialist message to a new audience. In-house audience was entirely with him from the beginning though, seemed to stun the hosts and backfired a few times.



Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 16th, 2019, 11:43 am
by Cippenham
The report will be very redacted i guess so not much to read

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 16th, 2019, 5:45 pm
by XxXApathy420XxX
Image

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 16th, 2019, 6:24 pm
by xianjiro
XxXApathy420XxX wrote:
April 16th, 2019, 5:45 pm
SpoilerShow
Image
And so it begins. The Rs trying to define all Ds as at least socialist and the centrist Ds trying to distance themselves from the left for fear it will cost them the White House in 2020 and some Congressional races.

Unfortunately, too many Americans have accepted the anti-socialist propaganda that has been force-fed since the start of the Cold War. It's doubtful they'd even accept a Scandinavian style hybrid system even while they whine and complain about the excesses of capitalism. The programming is just too strong. And remember, with the fall of the Soviet Union, capitalism "won."

But it's also ironic since the vast majority of Americans support someone else paying for their health costs as well as old-age pensions and medical care. Of course they will always find a way to rationalize it away and yes, both are programs which one 'buys' into, but especially the national old-age pension (Social Security), has elements of a Ponzi scheme built into it. Most people simply aren't disciplined enough to figure out how much they need to save while they're working so that they will have money to retire on.

:shrug:

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 16th, 2019, 7:08 pm
by flaiky
xianjiro wrote:
April 16th, 2019, 6:24 pm
And so it begins. The Rs trying to define all Ds as at least socialist and the centrist Ds trying to distance themselves from the left for fear it will cost them the White House in 2020 and some Congressional races.

Unfortunately, too many Americans have accepted the anti-socialist propaganda that has been force-fed since the start of the Cold War. It's doubtful they'd even accept a Scandinavian style hybrid system even while they whine and complain about the excesses of capitalism. The programming is just too strong. And remember, with the fall of the Soviet Union, capitalism "won."But it's also ironic since the vast majority of Americans support someone else paying for their health costs as well as old-age pensions and medical care. Of course they will always find a way to rationalize it away and yes, both are programs which one 'buys' into, but especially the national old-age pension (Social Security), has elements of a Ponzi scheme built into it. Most people simply aren't disciplined enough to figure out how much they need to save while they're working so that they will have money to retire on.

:shrug:
I always find it strange that many Americans have been convinced that universal healthcare is "socialised healthcare", BOO!, BAD!, but apparently have no problem with publicly funding the police and fire services. Or schools, for that matter. I wonder how (and why?) the narrative has successfully been applied to one service but not the other three.

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 16th, 2019, 7:24 pm
by St. Gloede
It is especially funny from a European perspective, as M4A is a relatively centrist proposal that leaves the entirety of the healthcare services under private ownership. VA4A, I.e. NHS is the left wing proposal. (It is still interesting though as it removes the need for private insurance for general healthcare needs, while in Europe you usually have free on use public hospitals + private hospitals for which you need to pay, and thus you may want private insurance).

I loved that Buttigieg straight out made the first point in a recent interview - sadly he is even further to the right and only supports a public option. (Really sabotaged himself there, though the purpose may have been gas lighting).

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 16th, 2019, 7:44 pm
by St. Gloede
For those who will not watch the whole thing this is a beautiful highlight:


Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 16th, 2019, 8:03 pm
by xianjiro
flaiky wrote:
April 16th, 2019, 7:08 pm
xianjiro wrote:
April 16th, 2019, 6:24 pm
And so it begins. The Rs trying to define all Ds as at least socialist and the centrist Ds trying to distance themselves from the left for fear it will cost them the White House in 2020 and some Congressional races.

Unfortunately, too many Americans have accepted the anti-socialist propaganda that has been force-fed since the start of the Cold War. It's doubtful they'd even accept a Scandinavian style hybrid system even while they whine and complain about the excesses of capitalism. The programming is just too strong. And remember, with the fall of the Soviet Union, capitalism "won."But it's also ironic since the vast majority of Americans support someone else paying for their health costs as well as old-age pensions and medical care. Of course they will always find a way to rationalize it away and yes, both are programs which one 'buys' into, but especially the national old-age pension (Social Security), has elements of a Ponzi scheme built into it. Most people simply aren't disciplined enough to figure out how much they need to save while they're working so that they will have money to retire on.

:shrug:
I always find it strange that many Americans have been convinced that universal healthcare is "socialised healthcare", BOO!, BAD!, but apparently have no problem with publicly funding the police and fire services. Or schools, for that matter. I wonder how (and why?) the narrative has successfully been applied to one service but not the other three.
Well, public education has been available in some shape from the early days (1600s) and so generations have been raised in it. It's not like anyone is threatening to take away prep schools and Ivy League colleges and force them into those horrible public schools. (But busing to end racial segregation was anything but an easy sell.)

Additionally, both security and fire services were private enterprises before government became involved. As a home owner, one had to purchase fire protection services and a medallion was fixed the the front of the house, for example. Problem was, if your neighbor didn't have coverage and their house caught on fire, the crew would likely as not wait around to see if your home also caught on fire before doing anything. I've no idea what sort of outcry there was when that was nationalized.

And my understanding is there was quite a fuss when Social Security was introduced, but that had less to do with promised pensions (though I'm guessing many didn't believe they'd get any money back) and more to do with the hatred of the introduction of payroll tax. I can't say if something similar happened with Medicare (health care for seniors), but clearly many prefer to have the cost of healthcare for the poor hidden in insurance and hospital bills rather than think of being taxed.

Keep in mind that the average American wants all these services but also wants someone else to pay for them. Granted, that's a gross oversimplification and many Americans gladly vote for things like fire, police, education, and hospital levies. Parks and libraries often are able to rely on voters for funding as well.

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 16th, 2019, 8:19 pm
by XxXApathy420XxX
Jesus people are getting really desperate with attacking Bernie

Image

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 16th, 2019, 9:02 pm
by xianjiro
Gee, here's a thought. We've only got 567 days of this 'fun' to go!

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 16th, 2019, 9:06 pm
by XxXApathy420XxX
And the middle tweet on the left too. Didn't even bother looking through his Wikipedia. It mentions this in regards to his professional career: After graduating from college, Sanders returned to New York City, where he initially worked at a variety of jobs, including Head Start teacher, psychiatric aide, and carpenter.[29] In 1968, Sanders moved to Vermont because he had been "captivated by rural life." After his arrival there he worked as a carpenter,[31] filmmaker, and writer[46] who created and sold "radical film strips" and other educational materials to schools.[47] He also wrote several articles for the alternative publication The Vermont Freeman.[48]

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 17th, 2019, 2:44 am
by Cocoa
I thought he was bad at the town hall. He didn't do enough to debunk the myth of people having abortions right before birth and he wants more "facilities" at the border. Also, apparently a bunch of Fox News hosts was talking trash about Bernie today. Pete also wants to do a Fox News town hall now.

I went to a Kirsten Gillibrand event tonight. I didn't get to talk with her one-on-one (u) but she did make eye contact with me while she was speaking on stage (l) Lauren Underwood was there for Kirsten which I wasn't aware of their working relationship before. Lauren Underwood (l) Gillibrand also received the endorsement of Marie Newman who is trying to primary my rep (Dan Lipinski, aka the only Democcrat who does not support the Equality Act) and Gillibrand endorsed Newman. I hope other presidential candidates and higher up party members support Newman. Last election, Pelosi supported Lipinski and then Lipinski tried to make someone else be speaker over Pelosi :lol: I'm hoping I get to see other candidates as well during the primary season. I know Sanders had a rally earlier this year, but I haven't heard much about the other candidates visiting my state yet.

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 17th, 2019, 3:11 am
by Cocoa
Wow. I'm blown away by this.


Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 17th, 2019, 5:55 am
by St. Gloede
Cocoa wrote:
April 17th, 2019, 2:44 am
I thought he was bad at the town hall. He didn't do enough to debunk the myth of people having abortions right before birth and he wants more "facilities" at the border. Also, apparently a bunch of Fox News hosts was talking trash about Bernie today.
Is that really a surprise? :lol: It's what you Liberals and Conservatives love to do. :whistling:

(That said Gillibrand is on board with medicare for all, a $15 minimum wage and tuition free college - from what I understand her record is not particularly left wing, making this a little shady - she was a blue dog ... - but it does give her one of the best platforms)

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 17th, 2019, 7:21 am
by xianjiro
So, I see Shithole the Warmonger vetoed the bill to end US involvement in Yemen. Guess he's yet another "war is peace" president.

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 17th, 2019, 8:19 am
by St. Gloede
Didn't someone kinda promise to end useless wars.

Seem to recall someone saying that.

I think he was running for president.

A great businessman I hear.

And someone who would have drained the swamp.

Too bad he didn't win.

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 17th, 2019, 8:31 am
by Cippenham
I am conservative but from England so have no problem with socialised healthcare even though our system has faults. Whatever system you have needs to work for most people but people need to realise no system is free and everything has to be paid for somehow

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 17th, 2019, 8:32 am
by Cippenham
Trump did end useless wars unless i missed something

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 17th, 2019, 11:31 am
by Grunge Rock & Ally McBeal

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 17th, 2019, 11:56 am
by bal3x


:D :D :D

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 17th, 2019, 1:16 pm
by St. Gloede
Well done, Donnie. Keep saying it is the best economy ever - and you will lose. Most people know they still have worse prospects than they did. Go back 50 years and working class people could easily start families and buy homes - even survive on one income - not exactly the reality in 2019.

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 17th, 2019, 1:30 pm
by bal3x
Statistics don't often paint the real picture... the numbers may as well be good, but I'm hearing the "main street" is not doing that great these days (same thing in UK actually)... and most people don't give a damn about macro/micro-economic indicators, they are interested in their salaries, taxes, housing, food prices etc.

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 17th, 2019, 3:46 pm
by Kublai Khan
Cippenham wrote:
April 17th, 2019, 8:32 am
Trump did end useless wars unless i missed something
What's useful about the Saudi's war in Yemen?

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 17th, 2019, 7:55 pm
by Cippenham
Nothing Kublai I agree on that one. But USA needs an ally and has chosen Saudi, it’s all to do with politics in the region I am afraid

Re: US Politics thread

Posted: April 17th, 2019, 11:07 pm
by Cocoa


This keeps getting worse. Barr is having a press conference before the redacted Mueller report is released. Mueller won't be at the press conference. It's likely Trump knows what is in the Mueller report.