British Politics Lounge

[matthewscott8]

Statements like ACAB and "Defund the police" are indeed completely absurd in the UK. I am not trying to paint a rosy picture of police community relations in ethnic minority areas, but our cops don't even carry guns for the most part.

[tirefeet]

Former British ambassador to Turkey Richard Moore has been appointed as the head of MI6. During his time in Turkey he was well-liked by people as he was engaging in dope conversations on Twitter. One of the best ones:



He is being asked here playfully "Do you play any games regarding Turkey?", as in scheming. His response goes as "Yes, I play golf in Belek, Antalya".

[brokenface]

This is what Brandon Lewis, the Northern Ireland secretary, said when his Tory colleague Sir Bob Neill asked for an assurance that nothing in the internal market bill being published tomorrow would breach international legal obligations. Lewis replied:

"I would say to my honourable friend that, yes, this does break international law in a very specific and limited way."

The current UK Government, ladies and gentleman. Knowingly breaking international law and announcing it in parliament.

Head lawyer in civil service has resigned because of this, which, while I'd say good on him for principles, just means he'll be replaced by yet another Cummings/Johnson flunky. Problem is the dishonourable ones don't resign (cf. Cummings):

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... than-jones

[Knaldskalle]

This is what Brandon Lewis, the Northern Ireland secretary, said when his Tory colleague Sir Bob Neill asked for an assurance that nothing in the internal market bill being published tomorrow would breach international legal obligations. Lewis replied:

"I would say to my honourable friend that, yes, this does break international law in a very specific and limited way."

The current UK Government, ladies and gentleman. Knowingly breaking international law and announcing it in parliament.

Head lawyer in civil service has resigned because of this, which, while I'd say good on him for principles, just means he'll be replaced by yet another Cummings/Johnson flunky. Problem is the dishonourable ones don't resign (cf. Cummings):

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... than-jones

So I take it this will go through the court system and possibly on to The Hague? Considering that this involves NI, it's not only the EU that has an interest in the outcome of this but the US as well.

[RogerTheMovieManiac88]

https://www.medialens.org/2020/robert-f ... ournalist/

[matthewscott8]

UK politics is so broken there's not much to talk about. Got a long wait to kick Boris et al out.

[brokenface]

In a positive turns of events it seems like Cummings might be fucking off (though I'm still skeptical at this point).

[xianjiro]

been reading No. 10 is even more dysfunctional than the Shite House

[xianjiro]

Dominic Cummings has left Downing Street after internal battles over his role as Boris Johnson's chief adviser.

- source

[brokenface]

been reading No. 10 is even more dysfunctional than the Shite House

Similar stuff, put a bunch of sociopaths together trying to run a country into the ground with a lazy egomaniac lying piece of shit as their boss, it ain't going to go well.

Instead of the ex-caddy, we had the guy who used to dress up as a chicken to harass politicians for a tabloid newspaper

But these clowns going doesn't necessarily change much. Nearest parallel could be the exit of Bannon from Trump's administration.

[brokenface]

The more interesting question is timing, of how much this is related to the Brexit (is it harbinger than Johnson is getting scared and doing a trademark uturn on a deal or another delay?). Did Trump's loss play into it, the sense that it cuts chances of trade deal with US, and that his toxic form of populism may be declining? Is it just Cummings cutting and running before shit really hits fan?

[xianjiro]

yeah, all that coupled with the explosion of Covid - not sure how these figures used their power either in aid or opposition to trying to control the disease (well, other than Cummings famous cross country vacation during the first lockdown)

it's about six weeks to go to no deal, right?

[brokenface]

Yeah New Year's Day we will enter our glorious post-EU future. Probably riding a unicorn through streets paved with gold and fish.

[xianjiro]

I'm guessing a skillful artist has already captured that image - with BoJo riding the unicorn

so, cynicism recognized, what do you expect to happen between now 2021? Let's hope the negotiators don't get Covid.

[Onderhond]

From what I heard, there's really just next week, because of all the legalities involved to actually draw up the treaty. Everything later than that should be too late. Then again, we've heard so many deadlines already, I wouldn't be surprised if they draw something up on New Years Eve and put their scribble underneath.

[xianjiro]

BTW, rumor has it Cummings called Ms BoJo "Princess Nut Nuts" and that didn't go down well.

[brokenface]

I'm guessing a skillful artist has already captured that image - with BoJo riding the unicorn

so, cynicism recognized, what do you expect to happen between now 2021? Let's hope the negotiators don't get Covid.

I think there'll be a backtrack by Johnson. Some kind of crappy deal that satisfies no-one. Possibly with some delay-by-another-name baked into it, to actually iron out details because, as onderhond says, there's barely time to pass the legislation now.

If that is correct, I am interested to see how Johnson will try and sell it to the faithful. Perhaps link it to covid somehow. Unprecedented circumstances and all that. But it might be end of line for him as leader if he loses the brexit crew and he's outlived his electoral usefulness to the more moderate Tories.

[xianjiro]

Covid causes Brexit wasting (syndrome?)

[ChrisReynolds]

BTW, rumor has it Cummings called Ms BoJo "Princess Nut Nuts" and that didn't go down well.

The highest levels of government are being run like a primary school playground.
"Your girlfriend is Princess Nut Nuts!"
"You can't call her that. You're fired!"
There are also stories that Cummings likes to mime throwing a hand grenade as he walks out of the room. It's probably good news that he and his cronies have gone, but it also means that there's even less stability at the heart of government.

[xianjiro]

BTW, rumor has it Cummings called Ms BoJo "Princess Nut Nuts" and that didn't go down well.

The highest levels of government are being run like a primary school playground.
"Your girlfriend is Princess Nut Nuts!"
"You can't call her that. You're fired!"
There are also stories that Cummings likes to mime throwing a hand grenade as he walks out of the room. It's probably good news that he and his cronies have gone, but it also means that there's even less stability at the heart of government.

don't forget Cameron is a "girly swot" and Corbyn "[a] great big girl's blouse".

"Never [...] was so much owed by so many to so few." just pales in comparison.

[Pretentious Hipster]

Corbyn is reinstated.

Also an interesting article about the misinformation with anti-semitism.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... xaggerated

[Pretentious Hipster]

Councillors and members are leaving en masse. GG labour party. Shame because Boris is a piece of shit. I wonder if Starmer will resign at this point.

[St. Gloede]

There is close zero chance what so ever of Starmer resigning - and can Labour even afford another leadership contest at this point (in the midst of Corona)?

This is such a bloody shame. UK Labour has one of the greatest platforms of economic empowerment in the world, yet they keep destroying themselves over petty infighting, wing feuds(?) and just terrible decisions.

Corbyn should have known (regardless of how right his statement was) that this was an utterly ridiculous and inappropriate time to make a statement like he did, and Starmer (he signed off on the suspension reportedly) completely overreacted. There were even people getting suspending for defending Corbyn. And now they reinstated Corbyn in Labour without the whip, i.e. not a Labour MP ... This is just a complete mockery. How are they not thinking this through at all? They look like headless chickens.

I was somewhat worried about Starmer being elected as Leader - mostly as he lacked charisma and had the EU platform hanging over him + it was suggested he was further to right than he presented himself - but at the very least he appeared to be competent and with a clear head and temperament. These decisions seem rash, thoughtless and not suited for UK's main opposition party.

This was the unity candidate ...

(While I'm not a Brit, there are some agendas that really travels across borders and make you invested in their success. The work of Labour was and still is one of them for me - but the situation of the party has just grown increasingly bleak).

[Pretentious Hipster]

Lol Starmer was shit from the beginning and did stuff like this slowly to make him even worse https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 93409.html

I don't think Corbyn did anything wrong in that regard as the suspension right from the start was a pointless "fuck you" and I'm glad the public realzied how fruitless that really was.

I've been following a british youtuber who has a masters in politics and apparently not only was the anti-semitism highly exaggerated, but the party was stopping him from acting on it through bureaucratic means.

[St. Gloede]

Lol Starmer was shit from the beginning and did stuff like this slowly to make him even worse https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 93409.html

Not sure I understand the "lol" or what you mean with "from the beginning" - the article is referencing events from this September.

(It is true that from Starmer took over there seems to be less leniency with members considered to be on the left wing of the party - as well as fairly harsh decisions - but the issue I'm raising is one of incompetency)

I don't think Corbyn did anything wrong in that regard as the suspension right from the start was a pointless "fuck you" and I'm glad the public realzied how fruitless that really was.

Not what the polls suggest: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... end-jeremy

"A snap YouGov poll, conducted this afternoon, finds that most Britons think the suspension was justified, with 58% saying it was the right thing to do. Only one in eight (13%) think it was wrong to suspend Corbyn, while 29% don’t know.

A plurality of those who backed the party at the 2019 general election likewise think the right decision has been made, by 41% to 26%."

I've been following a british youtuber who has a masters in politics and apparently not only was the anti-semitism highly exaggerated, but the party was stopping him from acting on it through bureaucratic means.

This is accurate - and I believe covered in the report as well.

[Pretentious Hipster]

Looked up the source. It was the favorability that dropped of the party when it happened

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... rmer-seen-

Yea, I'm seeing claims even from leftists think that he's anti-semitic because of the public's perception of it and polling, but the leaks proved that it was a result of "fake news" so I can't trust those claims. The fact that they tried it on Bernie, a jewish person, literally the day it stopped Corbyn from winning is more proof.

[St. Gloede]

Yes, the painting of Corbyn as an anti-semite is genuinely scary. I remember being in England ahead of the election and seeing big printed heading of examples of how he was an anti-semite. None have been showcased. The way the media lied about Corbyn on repeat - including pretending he put flowers on a terrorist's grave when he was putting it on the grave of the ex-VP of Palestine (and none of the terrorists from the event claimed was even buried at that cemetery).

It really is an example that if you repeat things enough time, people start believing there is fire.

[brokenface]

Corbyn and his cult just really needs to piss off at this point. It's probably good if the schism happens now when next election could be years off.

I get that he wasn't ever treated fairly by media. But politics is a shithole and always will be. Only way you change anything is by winning elections, all Corbyn is doing now (and has been for several years) is making it harder for labour to win elections.

[Knaldskalle]

Corbyn and his cult just really needs to piss off at this point. It's probably good if the schism happens now when next election could be years off.

I get that he wasn't ever treated fairly by media. But politics is a shithole and always will be. Only way you change anything is by winning elections, all Corbyn is doing now (and has been for several years) is making it harder for labour to win elections.

"Win the election now, worry about policy later" doesn't sound appealing to me, to be honest.

[Pretentious Hipster]

Corbyn and his cult just really needs to piss off at this point. It's probably good if the schism happens now when next election could be years off.

I get that he wasn't ever treated fairly by media. But politics is a shithole and always will be. Only way you change anything is by winning elections, all Corbyn is doing now (and has been for several years) is making it harder for labour to win elections.

"Win the election now, worry about policy later" doesn't sound appealing to me, to be honest.

As Waka Flocka once said:

Shoot first ask questions last.
That's how these so called gangsta's last.

It is the argument I've seen from many liberals that I am frankly growing so tired of. I'm seeing it applied so often here in Canadian politics as well. Let everything else slide as long as the far-right doesn't win. It completely undermines accountability, which I really don't get why people aren't fighting for. Trudeau has done two absolutely sketchy things and unethical things (ignoring the blackface), and they are once again brushed off because it's part of the "greater good".

France is the perfect example of this. Did you see the shithole that is happening there now? Mass protests that turned extremely violent because of his neoliberal economic interests, and then it slowly turned into fascism where you go to jail for taking photos and videos of cops, getting deported if you are an immigrant and are against what a teacher did in class, registration numbers for children, and muslims having to register for lists. They all voted for him to avoid a fascist government, letting shit slide, and now a fascist government formed anyways.

[Pretentious Hipster]

Also why is everyone ignoring 2017?

Corbyn was fucking kicking ass at that election! Despite what the media and the rest of the party was doing against him. If you wanted to win elections, wouldn't applying all those smears against him be a bad idea? And look what that gave you, one of the biggest conservative victories.

[Pretentious Hipster]

I wonder if they would think of the Labour party back when they were supported by Lenin

[St. Gloede]

Does "Corbyn's cult" refer to the left of the Labour Party? I'm not sure what kicking out/disenfranchising the part of the country/movement most passionate for positive change is good for or how anyone could want that?!

I find this view both frightening and disturbing, sorry to say it Brokenface.

Yes, Corbyn has clearly become extremely unpopular with the public - but the media will do this to almost anyone in Labour. I can see that a less radical image will work better - and this is a branding failure for Corbyn - what he fought for is mostly commonplace in Scandinavia, France, Germany, etc. He should have pushed it as the common sense, pragmatic moves towards social democracy as they are: but if this is too far less, I am horrified by what would then be the policies of a supposed left wing Labour party.

I have seen Labour in my own country move to the right over my lifetime, it is happening almost everywhere, and it is horrifying. Slowly but surely we will lose more and more rights, more and more agency. The UK already has a declining living age (pre-covid), if this trend continues it will be everywhere.

[brokenface]

Does "Corbyn's cult" refer to the left of the Labour Party? I'm not sure what kicking out/disenfranchising the part of the country/movement most passionate for positive change is good for or how anyone could want that?!

I find this view both frightening and disturbing, sorry to say it Brokenface.

Yes, Corbyn has clearly become extremely unpopular with the public - but the media will do this to almost anyone in Labour. I can see that a less radical image will work better - and this is a branding failure for Corbyn - what he fought for is mostly commonplace in Scandinavia, France, Germany, etc. He should have pushed it as the common sense, pragmatic moves towards social democracy as they are: but if this is too far less, I am horrified by what would then be the policies of a supposed left wing Labour party.

I have seen Labour in my own country move to the right over my lifetime, it is happening almost everywhere, and it is horrifying. Slowly but surely we will lose more and more rights, more and more agency. The UK already has a declining living age (pre-covid), if this trend continues it will be everywhere.

No Corbyn's cult refer to the people who still see Corbyn as messiah. And if only x, y and z hadn't happened he'd be our glorious greatest ever PM right now. Labour needs to move on from Corbyn. I'm not talking about his politics, but him.

If someone can come along and offer his policies in a way that might actually win, great. Until then, someone who can win being functional and not actively making things worse would be a massive improvement on the shitshow we've been stuck with for past decade.

I don't think I have frightening or disturbing views, just depressed and cynical. Bored of left wing all-or-nothing purism that always ends with nothing.

[St. Gloede]

Phew! In that case fair enough, I see your point. I think it was only what I read into "Corbyn cult" that was frightening and disturbing (i.e. the left wing of the party).

I do find the idea/framing/term odd/worrying. Leftist all-or-nothing purism is absurd, of course - and I'm guessing you have some of these close enough to your earshot to annoy you - but given how compromising even Corbyn himself was, I don't think whatever could be called the Corbyn-wing, i.e. general left-wing fits in there - and that's where there seem to be schisms. Whichever people on the sidelines exist that can't accept anyone but Corbyn shouldn't colour that.

*Technically it is true of course, given how close the '17 election was that if X, Y, Z didn't happen he'd be PM. I can understand why many can't quite let that go seeing just how close they were to pushing in said policies - and for better or worse Corbyn was one of the strongest symbols of said policies - though they have to understand just how politically damaged Corbyn has become.

[Pretentious Hipster]