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British Politics Lounge

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May should ...

Poll ended at June 7th, 2019, 6:31 pm

remain
0
No votes
leave
10
45%
seek psychiatric help
12
55%
 
Total votes: 22

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Re: British Politics Lounge

#2561

Post by matthewscott8 » December 23rd, 2019, 9:16 am

Cippenham wrote:
December 22nd, 2019, 7:53 pm
I didnt know that. It was in The Times. But she would have learned nothing and ensure Labour is in wilderness if elected.

Rebecca Wrong Daily is a valid nickname.
according to you labour lost the election because of anti-semitism. So are you now saying Rebecca Long Bailey is an anti-semite?

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#2562

Post by Cippenham » December 23rd, 2019, 12:14 pm

I am not accusing individuals. The Labour party lost because their Brexit policy was not to support Brexit although this helped in London and the south east and because they alienated traditional supporters and had policies that were not credible like a 4 day week and their pro Russia approach to Salisbury event in addition to anti semitism . Also the appeal of slogan Get Brexit Done was as powerful as Take Back Control in the Eu referendum.

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#2563

Post by Cippenham » December 23rd, 2019, 12:15 pm

Yes anti semitism played some part as well.

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#2564

Post by Cippenham » December 23rd, 2019, 12:16 pm

Long Bailey is extreme left that is why she is the wrong choice ideological and not practical

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#2565

Post by Cippenham » December 23rd, 2019, 12:19 pm

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dail ... untry.html

Hitchens says the main left wing party is now the Conservative party

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#2566

Post by Cippenham » December 23rd, 2019, 12:20 pm

They support the terrible Blairite Trotskyite political correctness etc

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#2567

Post by St. Gloede » December 23rd, 2019, 1:54 pm

(Which has nothing to do with economics, and thus neither left, nor right. However, more often than not it is usually used as a distraction manoeuvre to get people to look away from not too popular/pleasant right-wing economics, i.e. Blairites, LibDems and Conservatives)

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#2568

Post by Cippenham » December 23rd, 2019, 4:35 pm

He points out spending on infrastructure or NHS if not reformed can be wasted and does not necessarily do good. Increasing police numbers does not do good if they are not well deployed

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#2569

Post by Cippenham » December 23rd, 2019, 4:38 pm

Boris had no idea about crime or how bad schools are. But still miles better than Corbyn.

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#2570

Post by St. Gloede » December 23rd, 2019, 9:00 pm

The media already seems to be doing everything they can do destroy Rebecca Long-Bailey. That does imply the establishment is worried about her, but so far she is yet to punch back, which means she could end up being as inefficient as Corbyn.

Who are the left leaning Brits hoping will take over?

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#2571

Post by St. Gloede » December 23rd, 2019, 9:11 pm

Also, you have got to be bloody kidding me ...


Searching up the article from yesterday, sadly most is behind a paywall: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... arty-iron/

Title:
Labour leadership frontrunner Rebecca Long-Bailey said she would like to rule party with 'iron fist'
Actual quote they base this on, within the article itself:
"I can't rule the party with an iron fist, much as I'd love to. It is up to councillors and politicians to be accountable."
I wonder if this type of absurdist propaganda was what this Tony Diver and do many others thought they'd be doing when they dreamt of becoming journalists. It is extremely sad, and also terribly scary that this is the current state of affairs.

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#2572

Post by matthewscott8 » December 23rd, 2019, 11:26 pm

St. Gloede wrote:
December 23rd, 2019, 9:11 pm
"I can't rule the party with an iron fist, much as I'd love to. It is up to councillors and politicians to be accountable."
I wonder if this type of absurdist propaganda was what this Tony Diver and do many others thought they'd be doing when they dreamt of becoming journalists. It is extremely sad, and also terribly scary that this is the current state of affairs.
That's within accepted journalistic standards, I'm media trained and have been told to expect exactly that. They're allowed to extract meaning from statements. Long Bailey will have to grow up quick.

I don't know a lot about some of the candidates, not enough to talk about which would be my favourite.

Keir Starmer I like a lot. Today he tweeted, "homelessness in this country is a moral emergency". He's absolutely right about that. Part of the Tory austerity policy was to completely withdraw services in that area. We had homelessness under control, and they broke everything to pieces. It's my number one issue, and wasn't part of the election debate.

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#2573

Post by Cippenham » December 24th, 2019, 3:51 am

Starmer would be a disaster. Just the metropolitan elite type who would have no understanding about people in seats Labour lost up north. To be honest it has to be someone like Lisa Nandy, or Stephen Kinnock. Fortunately they will make another terrible choice instead.

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#2574

Post by matthewscott8 » December 24th, 2019, 4:07 am

Cippenham wrote:
December 24th, 2019, 3:51 am
Starmer would be a disaster. Just the metropolitan elite type who would have no understanding about people in seats Labour lost up north. To be honest it has to be someone like Lisa Nandy, or Stephen Kinnock. Fortunately they will make another terrible choice instead.
Well Boris Johnson is a metropolitan elite type and the voters seem to have gone for him.

Starmer is actually from a very ordinary background.

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#2575

Post by Cippenham » December 24th, 2019, 5:03 am

This Boris left wing socialist government has nothing to do with Theresa May and Cameron austerity. The budget will show massive public spending. Let’s see in February.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/0/ ... date-next/

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#2576

Post by Cippenham » December 24th, 2019, 5:15 am

Consider Starmer was part of the shenanigans to stop Brexit he is forever tarnished to people in say Redcar.

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#2577

Post by brokenface » December 24th, 2019, 10:48 am

Labour got to be smart and work out how to win against hostile media and a government which is actively spreading disinformation.

Long Bailey seems to be the chosen continuity candidate for Corbyn and his team. And she doesn't come off as particularly impressive in style from what I've seen. For both reasons: no thanks.

Lisa Nandy or Jess Phillips seen more likely to be able to win people back in the places they've lost. But the Corbyn wing hate Phillips for reasons I'm not quite sure of.

Starmer's good but yeah could be too associated with Brexit for some. David Lammy possibly another option.

Whoever it is, it needs to be someone the MPs can get behind so they actually act as a united force and make themselves look like a serious opposition again. They're never going to win if half the MPs don't believe in the leader themselves

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#2578

Post by St. Gloede » December 24th, 2019, 6:55 pm

matthewscott8 wrote:
December 23rd, 2019, 11:26 pm
St. Gloede wrote:
December 23rd, 2019, 9:11 pm
"I can't rule the party with an iron fist, much as I'd love to. It is up to councillors and politicians to be accountable."
I wonder if this type of absurdist propaganda was what this Tony Diver and do many others thought they'd be doing when they dreamt of becoming journalists. It is extremely sad, and also terribly scary that this is the current state of affairs.
That's within accepted journalistic standards, I'm media trained and have been told to expect exactly that. They're allowed to extract meaning from statements. Long Bailey will have to grow up quick.

I don't know a lot about some of the candidates, not enough to talk about which would be my favourite.

Keir Starmer I like a lot. Today he tweeted, "homelessness in this country is a moral emergency". He's absolutely right about that. Part of the Tory austerity policy was to completely withdraw services in that area. We had homelessness under control, and they broke everything to pieces. It's my number one issue, and wasn't part of the election debate.
Thanks Matt. I like Keir Starmer too, and that is an incredibly important note. He commands a lot of respect, and as he is part of the more moderate/soft left wing of the party and could unite the wings (I suppose the core concern here would be his hard Remain stance, and that he was the Shadow Brexit secretary).

Bit off-topic, but I was a journalist in Norway, and I have to say I'm extremely grateful for our "Vær varsom plakaten / Ethical Code of Practice for the Norwegian Press", you'd be in front of the association in a heartbeat if you did anything like this.

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#2579

Post by morrison-dylan-fan » December 28th, 2019, 3:16 pm

After the Fox:


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#2580

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 » December 28th, 2019, 4:31 pm

Not as bad as all the hunters out in their blood-lusting hordes on Boxing Day looking to maul foxes to a cruel and terrifying death with their packs of eager hounds! I'm not saying that this chap acted wisely or humanely but, from the way it's been presented, he responded to a difficult situation involving his chickens and a fox. It says a lot that this freakish, impulsive incident is the fox-related story that gains traction at this time of year.

As you might deduce, I'm very much against fox-hunting (and indeed any hunting for pleasure).
That's all, folks!

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#2581

Post by Cippenham » December 31st, 2019, 7:28 pm

This guy a statistician forecast a Conservative majority of 72 before the election , the result was 80, and here analyses the success or otherwise of polls in British General Elections


https://marriott-stats.com/nigels-blog/ ... with-ge19/

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#2582

Post by Cippenham » January 3rd, 2020, 6:38 am

https://dominiccummings.com/2020/01/02/ ... d-weirdos/

Dominic Cummings vision of what this government plans to do especially as regards the Civil Service

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#2583

Post by St. Gloede » January 9th, 2020, 10:31 pm

All candidates appear to have announced for Labour leadership, and they have all been giving their pitches, and started doing the standard interviews. Any updated views?

Spectator perspective:

I am actually very positively surprised. There is not a single candidate that could be considered New Labour. There are no center to center right tinkerers. Everyone speaking on policy are committing to taking serious steps to improve Britain, give people more power and better lives. In other words, no matter who wins there will be a solid left alternative (the only one I'm not too certain of is Jess Phillips, who seems to mostly speak in platitudes, but she has still lined herself behind a "green new deal" ).

There are 3 candidates that instantly emerge as strong candidates to me.

Keir Starmer clearly has the most charisma, is politically savvy, commands respect and is reasonably believable when it comes to implementing the major pieces of the manifesto. The only true issue here is that he is the Brexit Secretary, when their Brexit position was such a big part of their defeat, and he may be, even in 5 years, easy to paint as a cosmopolitan elite to northern leave voters.

Lisa Nandy has the most reconciliatory campaign, and likely the greatest ability to bring back leave voters. Like Starmer she would have the ability to unite the party, and is far more sympathetic. Perhaps the hardest to demonize (and the media will do just that). She is far enough positioned from the Brexit fallout and from Corbyn to be untainted, and stands behind a slightly more moderate/pragmatic push to pass their key policies.

Rebecca Long-Bailey has Momentum on her side, and with that the arguably most organize and driven grassroot energy. She is the most believable in terms of keeping Labour on its current left trajectory and implementing the already moderate and popular ideas in the manifesto. The question is, will she be believable to voters? She's coming out of the gate forcefully defined as a continuity candidate, can Corbyn's low standing take her out even in the long run? To her advantage, while clearly the scariest to the media, they have nothing on her. The coverage and spin is just sad. Her main issue is whether she, like Corbyn, will be unable to unite Labour - split parties do not win elections.

-

I don't think Lewis, nor Thornberry can unite the party or win back leave voters. Both are tremendous speakers, but somehow the latter comes out as even more tainted than Starmer, while Lewis has decided to double down on Brexit, going as far as essentially saying he would work to convince leave voters of the racism in Brexit... Not exactly the key issue to be winning.

Phillips is a strange case. She speaks about truth, but doesn't say much. Her main campaign items are focused on moderate social issues (of importance). She shows no credibility on wishing to lead a large scale transformative project. At the same time she has built up a brand and is a media darling. Electable? Possibly, but she is very unlikely to unite the party.

-

Also: Starmer seems to have almost won already, how lakely is his extreme lead in the pills to change?

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#2584

Post by Cippenham » January 10th, 2020, 12:04 pm

Even i think Lisa Nandy the best candidate but she will not win

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#2585

Post by morrison-dylan-fan » January 10th, 2020, 11:24 pm

Cippenham wrote:
January 10th, 2020, 12:04 pm
Even i think Lisa Nandy the best candidate but she will not win
Like you and Gloede, Cipp,I'd say Nandy is the best candidate running.

Nandy (MP for Wigan,a area which voted 64% for Leave in the ref) used to be a regular on This Week,and she always did really well in the in-depth discussions in explaining policies in practical terms. Along with not being connected to the Corbyn project, Nandy (who was saying for ages that the vote to Leave had to be respected) was also one of the few Labour who supported Boris's Brexit bill at the early stages ( https://labourlist.org/2019/10/lisa-nan ... d-reading/) with this being something that could help Labour re-gain some of their heartland seats at the next GE.

My current guess on who will become leader,is Starmer or RLB.

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#2586

Post by Cippenham » January 11th, 2020, 5:25 am

I agree, and would think it hilarious if RLB wins as it would be an utter disaster for Labour, she does not seem likeable to many people, even less than Corbyn I would have thought.

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#2587

Post by Cippenham » January 11th, 2020, 5:57 am

The ideas in the manifesto were neither popular or moderate as SG says but unpopular and extreme.

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#2588

Post by St. Gloede » January 11th, 2020, 7:12 am

Cippenham wrote:
January 11th, 2020, 5:57 am
The ideas in the manifesto were neither popular or moderate as SG says but unpopular and extreme.
That is not correct, Cipp:

Image

Source: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... why-arent-

(Important to note that YouGov was founded by Conservatives)

In terms of moderation, that is more of a definitional issue, but when you have a manifesto that would only raise public spending up to a mid-tier European standard, still below France, Germany, etc. it is very hard to see how it could be described as extreme.

If you look at basic policies like Co-determination they are not even aiming for Germany (with their as close to 50% as possible law) but the rather standard 1 third.

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#2589

Post by Cippenham » January 11th, 2020, 11:42 am

The election results suggest otherwise o

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#2590

Post by Cippenham » January 11th, 2020, 11:44 am

Conservatives will also be increasing public spending but not to the same extreme degree, wait for the budget in March that will surprise people

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#2591

Post by Cippenham » January 11th, 2020, 11:58 am

Great news, Northern Ireland assembly deal done, Brexit bill passes House of Commons.

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#2592

Post by St. Gloede » January 11th, 2020, 12:10 pm

Cippenham wrote:
January 11th, 2020, 11:42 am
The election results suggest otherwise o
It doesn't:

Image

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#2593

Post by Cippenham » January 11th, 2020, 4:54 pm

So Conservatives will adopt some socialist policies enough to win another election next time, good enough for me, better than the alternative.

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#2594

Post by Cippenham » January 11th, 2020, 4:55 pm

None of those policies though I am pleased to say

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#2595

Post by St. Gloede » January 11th, 2020, 10:41 pm

If the Tories decide to implement more policies that make people's lives better - fantastic.

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#2596

Post by Cippenham » January 12th, 2020, 5:45 pm

I think the budget in March will be very important yes

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#2597

Post by morrison-dylan-fan » January 15th, 2020, 6:34 pm

Let's get this party started!


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#2598

Post by Cippenham » January 17th, 2020, 12:13 pm

Er no thanks

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#2599

Post by St. Gloede » January 21st, 2020, 7:44 pm

Jess Phillips drops out after not managing to secure union support: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ship-race

She states it is clear she is not the person to unite the Labour Party.



Only 4 left.

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#2600

Post by Cippenham » January 23rd, 2020, 6:03 am

I hope they choose RLB as she would be a disaster, but the out of touch technocrat Starmer is more likely, he is at least better than Corbyn. Lisa Nandy is by far and away the best candidate, so of course she won’t win, that is why Labour has learned nothing.

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