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British Politics Lounge

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May should ...

Poll ended at June 7th, 2019, 6:31 pm

remain
0
No votes
leave
10
45%
seek psychiatric help
12
55%
 
Total votes: 22

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Re: British Politics Lounge

#2001

Post by brokenface » August 6th, 2019, 9:20 pm

Cippenham wrote:
August 6th, 2019, 9:06 pm
That is catch 22 if you are right so therefore we need a new deal. But not sure if that’s right but it may be but as we this side are not erecting a border and we are allowing rule by consent still in Northern Ireland. It’s up to the Eu and the Republic and so far they choose to let us leave with no deal as for some crazy reason they don’t believe we will do it. Do you believe we will do it, i am not sure as I think some so called temporary deal will be stitched up like traditional fudge.
Why are you pretending you give a shit about the Good Friday agreement now, if you voted in favour of Brexit which locked us into this unsolvable Catch 22 in Ireland?

There is no deal that resolves this, because you can't both have a border and not have a border (please don't even try that 'technological solutions', 'trusted traders' bullshit the chancers keep wheeling out). The only way for a deal is for Boris Johnson to accept a rebranding of the backstop which does exactly the same thing but in such a way that he can pretend it's different.

I have to believe there's still hope that way out can be found to avoid no deal. Johnson is malleable, but Cummings is dangerous and seemingly the one pulling the strings now.

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#2002

Post by Cippenham » August 7th, 2019, 4:37 am

Brexit with a deal would not be catch 22 but the May deal yes. But Sinn Féin implies the deal can still stand with no deal as long as we have a referendum on a United Ireland after no deal. But the Irish Government have opposed such a referendum. I think Boris won’t be able to accept a backstop at all however.

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#2003

Post by Cippenham » August 7th, 2019, 4:39 am

When voting Brexit Ireland was not considered. Just thought we need to get out of undemocratic EU, control our borders and make our own laws.

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#2004

Post by Cippenham » August 7th, 2019, 4:40 am

They managed to be ok with the border before we joined the EU.

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#2005

Post by brokenface » August 7th, 2019, 9:24 am

Cippenham wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 4:39 am
When voting Brexit Ireland was not considered. Just thought we need to get out of undemocratic EU, control our borders and make our own laws.
Exactly. People were warning about how it'd affect Ireland but this was dismissed as part of 'project fear'. The leave campaign was incoherent: let's make a huge decision, a bunch of empty promises and plan how to actually do it later. It's the reason we've had three years of farce.

And now because they still don't have a semblance of a plan, they're down to just crashing out without a deal and then try to figure it out afterwards.

At what point do you realise you've been conned?

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#2006

Post by xianjiro » August 7th, 2019, 9:54 am

Let's not forget being all things to all leavers - by not offering specifics (like May's negotiated proposal), voters could let Brexit be whatever they wanted from just giving a two-finger salute and walking away to some nebulous Norway-style out-but-in arrangement and, of course, only to the UK's benefit. Can't wait for someone to put "should the government eradicate poverty" on the ballot; it's even more nebulous and even less attainable but a sure-fire win at the box office.

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#2007

Post by xianjiro » August 7th, 2019, 10:12 am

Also, isn't "undemocratic EU" a rich description coming from a supporter of a government selected by 92,153 voters out of an estimated population of 67,545,757.

At least with America's flawed Electoral College system, everyone knew Ford's presidency would be up for a vote.
SpoilerShow
He lost.
People were pissed that he, unelected, pardoned Tricky Dicky: imagine if he would have said "My predecessor promised to bomb North Vietnam to protect the sovereignty of the South, so today I ordered the Air Force ..."

"undemocratic" :facepalm:

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#2008

Post by brokenface » August 7th, 2019, 10:17 am

Cippenham wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 4:40 am
They managed to be ok with the border before we joined the EU.
Read some history.

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#2009

Post by brokenface » August 7th, 2019, 10:42 am

Someone's just published a little piece about Irish border just for you:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... it-customs

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#2010

Post by xianjiro » August 7th, 2019, 11:08 am

brokenface wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 10:42 am
Someone's just published a little piece about Irish border just for you:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... it-customs
We've got people who are more than happy to build an impenetrable wall there for you. ;)

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#2011

Post by Cippenham » August 7th, 2019, 3:45 pm

brokenface wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 10:17 am
Cippenham wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 4:40 am
They managed to be ok with the border before we joined the EU.
Read some history.
They had the common travel area.

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#2012

Post by Cippenham » August 7th, 2019, 3:46 pm

We don’t propose a hard border, that is the idea of the EU. The article says it is the result of Brexit, no it would be the choice of the Eu. Ireland can also leave the Eu if they don’t like their laws. In fact they should for reasons shown below

https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/economic ... 21J-Hvd0w/

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#2013

Post by Cippenham » August 7th, 2019, 3:55 pm

xianjiro wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 11:08 am
brokenface wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 10:42 am
Someone's just published a little piece about Irish border just for you:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... it-customs
We've got people who are more than happy to build an impenetrable wall there for you. ;)
We don’t want a hard border or wall there that is the idea of the EU.

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#2014

Post by brokenface » August 7th, 2019, 6:01 pm

Cippenham wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 3:46 pm
We don’t propose a hard border, that is the idea of the EU. The article says it is the result of Brexit, no it would be the choice of the Eu.
You don't propose a hard border because you and your merry band of idiots don't propose any solutions based in reality. You like having cake and you like eating cake. You want to take back control but also leave an open border with no control.

Reality is that currently there is no need for any physical border in Ireland. The Brexit you voted for means there has to be a physical border unless there's deal with some kind of clause in the deal to avoid it (let's call it a backstop, eh?). EU did not vote for Brexit. You did. Own it.

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#2015

Post by Cippenham » August 7th, 2019, 7:24 pm

Its Not a problem of our causing, entirely up to the EU. But I think a temporary arrangement is possible for October instead and a General Election in January, Tories to win and final leave date next year. Hope I am wrong . During the temporary arrangement we may have no MEPs so be kind of semi detached so a final decision can be made at a General Election to go or reverse gear.

No we won’t accept any backstop at all .

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#2016

Post by brokenface » August 7th, 2019, 7:51 pm

Cippenham wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 7:24 pm
Its Not a problem of our causing, entirely up to the EU.
All you need to do is keep lying the same again & again and eventually it becomes true, right?

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#2017

Post by Cippenham » August 8th, 2019, 3:44 am

Apparently Corbyn will attempt a coup if Boris does not win a confidence vote. This would mean he Corbyn could be arrested as after all him and his gang are revolutionary communists backed by Momentum. I also read if politicians talk when abroad about bringing down the government they can be arrested for treason and government lawyers are considering if they can charge at least one remainer traitor with treason. It’s a shame we no longer have the death penalty for treason really. I would like a lot of remainer politicians arrested for treason ideally. Maybe a few celebs as well. Wanting to hand power to foreign unelected people against the wishes of the people should be considered as treason.

These are from mainstream media, probably crazy stories right?
Last edited by Cippenham on August 8th, 2019, 3:58 am, edited 5 times in total.

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#2018

Post by Cippenham » August 8th, 2019, 3:47 am

The EU are the only ones who choose a hard border, the Irish and British don’t want it, fact. So Ireland’s solution is to also withdraw from EU. No one suggests this obvious solution.

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#2019

Post by Cippenham » August 8th, 2019, 3:48 am

From that point of view the EU are warmongers so should be arrested.

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#2020

Post by brokenface » August 8th, 2019, 6:46 am

Good God, man, get a grip. Start engaging with the real world.

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#2021

Post by cinephage » August 8th, 2019, 7:58 am

Cippenham wrote:
August 8th, 2019, 3:44 am
Apparently Corbyn will attempt a coup if Boris does not win a confidence vote. This would mean he Corbyn could be arrested as after all him and his gang are revolutionary communists backed by Momentum. I also read if politicians talk when abroad about bringing down the government they can be arrested for treason and government lawyers are considering if they can charge at least one remainer traitor with treason. It’s a shame we no longer have the death penalty for treason really. I would like a lot of remainer politicians arrested for treason ideally. Maybe a few celebs as well. Wanting to hand power to foreign unelected people against the wishes of the people should be considered as treason.

These are from mainstream media, probably crazy stories right?
Let me read this right... You want people to be executed because they disagree with you ?? Because they "want something" you feel isn't right ? Killing people for their opinions isn't very democratic, you know.

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#2022

Post by Cippenham » August 8th, 2019, 8:27 am

No only if they are traitors decided by a court but we do not have death penalty for treason so prison would do but yes they should be tried if there is strong evidence they are traitors

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#2023

Post by Cippenham » August 8th, 2019, 8:28 am

Not for their opinions but for their treachery if proved. We hanged Lord Haw Haw for treason.

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#2024

Post by matthewscott8 » August 8th, 2019, 9:02 am

Cippenham wrote:
August 8th, 2019, 3:47 am
The EU are the only ones who choose a hard border, the Irish and British don’t want it, fact. So Ireland’s solution is to also withdraw from EU. No one suggests this obvious solution.
You can't wage a campaign to win your borders back and then say you don't want a border in Ireland. It's simply childish.

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#2025

Post by matthewscott8 » August 8th, 2019, 9:06 am

Cippenham wrote:
August 8th, 2019, 3:44 am
Apparently Corbyn will attempt a coup if Boris does not win a confidence vote. This would mean he Corbyn could be arrested as after all him and his gang are revolutionary communists backed by Momentum. I also read if politicians talk when abroad about bringing down the government they can be arrested for treason and government lawyers are considering if they can charge at least one remainer traitor with treason. It’s a shame we no longer have the death penalty for treason really. I would like a lot of remainer politicians arrested for treason ideally. Maybe a few celebs as well. Wanting to hand power to foreign unelected people against the wishes of the people should be considered as treason.

These are from mainstream media, probably crazy stories right?
Presumably you would also want Aaron Banks hung for trying to hand power to Russia and Nigel Farage hung for being in cahoots with Trump? Or is it only treason if the foreign power is France or Germany.

Honestly some of your posts make me want to cry.

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#2026

Post by Cippenham » August 8th, 2019, 12:08 pm

Farage is not selling our sovereignty to Trump and neither Banks to Russia but if you hand your government control to foreign power without the people agreement that could be treason but they need to be tried in court. I accept we have no death penalty.

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#2027

Post by Cippenham » August 8th, 2019, 12:09 pm

I accept the rule of law too

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#2028

Post by Knaldskalle » August 8th, 2019, 3:14 pm

Cippenham wrote:
August 8th, 2019, 12:09 pm
I accept the rule of law too
How gracious of you.
Personal film goals for 2019.
ImageImageImageImage

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#2029

Post by xianjiro » August 8th, 2019, 3:57 pm

Knaldskalle wrote:
August 8th, 2019, 3:14 pm
Cippenham wrote:
August 8th, 2019, 12:09 pm
I accept the rule of law too
How gracious of you.
Q: For how long?
A:Show
For only as long as it suits your purpose or until it becomes inconvenient in the 'new economic nationalist' context.

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#2030

Post by matthewscott8 » August 8th, 2019, 4:44 pm

Cippenham wrote:
August 8th, 2019, 12:08 pm
Farage is not selling our sovereignty to Trump and neither Banks to Russia but if you hand your government control to foreign power without the people agreement that could be treason but they need to be tried in court. I accept we have no death penalty.
ImageI wonder why Trump got rid of UK ambassador and has been asking for Farage

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#2031

Post by St. Gloede » August 8th, 2019, 4:50 pm

Ireland leaving EU is an obvious option? Ireland loves the EU.

Their economy is based on European trade and free movement. They are one of the biggest headquarters hubs in Europe.

They are literally the country where the EU has the highest approvement rating.

Source: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingn ... 76526.html

Get some clue about the world around you ...

-

Also, Cipp, if you can call Corbyn & Co commies, calling you, and every Tory/Conservative, a fascist, should not be crossing any line. Especially in your case as you keep calling for the murder of everyone wanting democratic changes you disagree with. "Bringing down the government", "Coup", etc. is within a democratic framework. This IS democracy. You are anti-democracy. And as usual, you advocate oppression and murder. Sickening.

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#2032

Post by xianjiro » August 9th, 2019, 3:01 am

Went back to find Cipp's "murder" post. While I do see a connection between treason and a wish for the death penalty, not sure that qualifies. It's probably analogous to someone posting "I believe pedophiles should be put to death." or "I have no issue with executing domestic terrorists who commit mass murder." When we're talking about the general application of law and policy, discussing cases where an individual supports capital punishment makes sense.

However, the post comes really close to the line of veiled threat against an individual. Clearly the implication is Corbyn is a traitorous communist and traitors should be put to death (but the UK no longer has a death penalty) therefore it implies that yes, Corbyn should be subjected to capital punishment. And since many of us view executions as continuing the cycle of violence and murder, it's not a great leap in logic.

This isn't the first time he's called for violence because his political will might or was disappointed. I seem to recall a bit of a fuss earlier in the year around the UK not leaving the EU by the end of March and the result would be violence in the streets. Users shouted him down back then.

While this acceptance of violence is concerning, it's not a surprise coming from someone with strongly held opinions. However, this most recent incident approaches a dangerous line by targeting a specific, public official. Is that really what we want people to be posting around here? While I wouldn't be filled with tears if someone dropped a house on a meeting of Shithole and the highest ranking homophobe, I believe I've always stayed clear of calling or implying to call for violence directed towards an individual, no matter how much I dislike his (can't think of a her) policies.

So, I started poking around for a forum Acceptable Use Policy but so far haven't found one. Maybe we need to consider such since there are certain types of speech that will eventually cause problems for the forum, and calling for GBH against an individual would be one as would be posting, for example, sexually explicit pictures of children. We can't have a rule of law if there is no stated law, can we?

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#2033

Post by Cippenham » August 9th, 2019, 3:37 am

Corbyn says a no deal during an election is anti democratic, if he wanted a deal he could have supported Mrs May and her terrible deal. She even had talks with him.
Last edited by Cippenham on August 9th, 2019, 5:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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#2034

Post by Cippenham » August 9th, 2019, 3:38 am

I am only saying Corbyn could be arrested if he attempts a coup, not otherwise. Not the death penalty as we don’t have it. It was not me saying this it was the mainstream media. I am therefore not calling for violence. Anyway despite what John McDonnell says, Corbyn is not going to attempt a coup so let’s forget the whole thing.

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#2035

Post by Cippenham » August 9th, 2019, 4:35 am

I accept the rule of law no matter what and not violence against anyone. Sometimes the police take strong measures to enforce it but it has to be reasonable.

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#2036

Post by matthewscott8 » August 9th, 2019, 9:44 am

Cippenham wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 3:38 am
It was not me saying this it was the mainstream media.
Uhm by mainstream media, do you mean the comments section on Breitbart, or Spiked magazine?

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#2037

Post by ChrisReynolds » August 9th, 2019, 10:35 am

matthewscott8 wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 9:44 am
Cippenham wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 3:38 am
It was not me saying this it was the mainstream media.
Uhm by mainstream media, do you mean the comments section on Breitbart, or Spiked magazine?
Haven't been on this thread on ages, but had to comment that, yeah, this bizarre idea of Corbyn enacting a coup is straight from the mouth of the Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell. Here's the right-wing, but very definitely mainstream, Sun and Express:
COUP ARE YA Labour’s John McDonnell threatens to tell Queen ‘we’re taking over’
Fury at 'Marxist' plot to force Queen to make Jeremy Corbyn PM and take control of Brexit
Could Corbyn be arrested or tried if he did this? I don't think it's illegal, or counts as treason, because nothing like this has happened before. I think the Queen would have to refer his request to the Privy Council and it would be denied because he doesn't command a majority in the House of Commons. I don't know if the Privy Council could do anything, although they might be able to force Corbyn to resign.

Did John McDonnell say this as a joke? I haven't seen any refutation or clarification. He said it in a talk at the Edinburgh Festival, along with offering to give Scotland another independence referendum. Why is one of the leading figures of the opposition wandering around making up party policy and challenging the consitution? :shrug:

It does seem almost certain that there'll be a general election in the next few months.

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#2038

Post by Cippenham » August 9th, 2019, 11:43 am

matthewscott8 wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 9:44 am
Cippenham wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 3:38 am
It was not me saying this it was the mainstream media.
Uhm by mainstream media, do you mean the comments section on Breitbart, or Spiked magazine?
No it was the daily papers Sun and Express

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#2039

Post by Cippenham » August 9th, 2019, 11:56 am

A constitutional historian pointed out MPs already voted to leave EU so it is constitutional to just leave on 31 October even in middle of an election

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#2040

Post by matthewscott8 » August 9th, 2019, 12:53 pm

Cippenham wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 11:43 am
matthewscott8 wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 9:44 am
Cippenham wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 3:38 am
It was not me saying this it was the mainstream media.
Uhm by mainstream media, do you mean the comments section on Breitbart, or Spiked magazine?
No it was the daily papers Sun and Express
The Sun has been talking about executing Boris for treason if he hangs on after a no confidence vote, haven't seen them say anything about Corbyn being executed. You're an adult though, I mean you must know that The Sun and The Express are hate filled drivel rags?

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