LGBTQQIAAP ICM

[Pretentious Hipster]

Wtf is this

[Fergenaprido]

I have a hard time believing that it's a true story. Feels more like someone's fantasy of how they wanted a situation to end up. My opinion of it is that it's utter tripe.

That channel is odd; seems very clickbaity under the guise of "telling people's stories".

[Cocoa]

Costa Rica becomes the sixth country in Latin America to allow same-sex marriages

https://www.openlynews.com/i/?id=35bef0 ... a5268aa7c8

[xianjiro]

[Cocoa]

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled today that an employer cannot fire an individual for merely being gay or transgender. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/1 ... 8_hfci.pdf

It was a 6-3 decision with Gorsuch and Roberts forming the majority with the four liberal justices.

[xianjiro]

I have to admit I was quite stunned, but then again know that one can't peg justices until they're on the court and issuing rulings. 6 to 3 was quite incredible and I'm certain people on the right are going to whine about court activism, but it really might be a cause for some hope.

Especially interesting though is how someone campaigned on being the candidate to 'protect' the LGB community (can't remember if there were any promises made for Trans - kind of doubt it) and yet this administration argued that employers should have the right to fire employees simply because they are LGB, not to mention hiding behind 'faith' as a means to legitimize discrimination. Yup, that's how you protect people in this America. (At least Bush was honest about being anti-LGBT, but the Great Liar never fails us, does he?)

Wonder if this means the court isn't going to look favorably on other attempts to erode LGBT protections and rights - especially curious how this will play out for other cases affecting the community.

Maybe there is hope for Roe v Wade too, but I'm not holding my breath. Still, about the best news I've seen in at least two weeks.

[Pretentious Hipster]

[prodigalgodson]

Haha ganster

[xianjiro]

The Dutch are writing LGBTQ rights into their constitution

still needs to be approved by the upper house AND then go through both houses during the next parliament - still interesting

also appears homosexuality is on the verge of decriminalization in Gabon

[Chilton]

The Dutch are writing LGBTQ rights into their constitution

still needs to be approved by the upper house AND then go through both houses during the next parliament - still interesting

also appears homosexuality is on the verge of decriminalization in Gabon

Meanwhile Andrzej Duda got re-elected as Polish President on an agenda of anti-LGBT rhetoric.

Two steps forward, one step back....

[xianjiro]

The Dutch are writing LGBTQ rights into their constitution

still needs to be approved by the upper house AND then go through both houses during the next parliament - still interesting

also appears homosexuality is on the verge of decriminalization in Gabon

Meanwhile Andrzej Duda got re-elected as Polish President on an agenda of anti-LGBT rhetoric.

Two steps forward, one step back....

yeah, I was hoping they wouldn't go down that road and wonder if maybe the small margin might make it a bit harder to claim a mandate, but I don't know enough about Polish politics. Still, sad and I know this will be another thorn in the EU.

Maybe the old Warsaw Pact states will come around in another 20 or 50 years, but most all pretty depressing when it comes to LGBTQ rights.

I'm glad I neither want nor need to travel to such places and just hope they don't resort to anti-queer pogroms.

[Armoreska]

Anyone has informed opinion on radical feminism (non-TERF) and contemporary or eventual gender abolition?

[Pretentious Hipster]

I'll get back to you on that after I read some books, but I did go through some reading lists from universities for queer and gender studies. That being said, I'd only listen to what the profs think in that regard, and avoid what the kids on twitter think, especially after that one debacle where half of the books were by POC on a prof's syllabus apparently wasn't good enough.

[xianjiro]

Anyone has informed opinion on radical feminism (non-TERF) and contemporary or eventual gender abolition?

not sure what you're asking, but I know that for the most part, feminist lesbians have had issues with FtoM trans people and transitioning.

My take on the whole JK Rowling mess is that she's at least an old school feminist if not a radical feminist and thus her need to draw a line between women who menstruate and women who don't (and aren't really women).

I would be surprised if any feminist movement actually supported gender abolition though I'm certain there are some individuals who do.

[Armoreska]

I would be surprised if any feminist movement actually supported gender abolition though I'm certain there are some individuals who do.

That's what radical feminism is about. But they're too bio essentialist.
Some anarcha feminists on the other hand seem to support both gender and sex abolition. Been reading essays.
Vaush made a video too.

[prodigalgodson]

I would be surprised if any feminist movement actually supported gender abolition though I'm certain there are some individuals who do.

Mmm unless it's changed a lot since my college days that's what a whole sector of 3rd wave feminism is about.

[xianjiro]

I would be surprised if any feminist movement actually supported gender abolition though I'm certain there are some individuals who do.

Mmm unless it's changed a lot since my college days that's what a whole sector of 3rd wave feminism is about.

not really certain, but I tend to association trans/feminism more with the 4th wave But honestly, most of the 'card carrying' feminists I have known were 1st or 2nd wave -- or radicals

For me, intersectionality is the key to the 3rd wave and it's during this time that trans/feminism comes into being, largely because of the rejection of the various established feminist traditions - but all this stuff is pretty fluid - one thing flows into another. But it's pretty clear that some 3rd wavers were concerned with trans issues, no doubt about that.

[prodigalgodson]

I would be surprised if any feminist movement actually supported gender abolition though I'm certain there are some individuals who do.

Mmm unless it's changed a lot since my college days that's what a whole sector of 3rd wave feminism is about.

not really certain, but I tend to association trans/feminism more with the 4th wave But honestly, most of the 'card carrying' feminists I have known were 1st or 2nd wave -- or radicals

For me, intersectionality is the key to the 3rd wave and it's during this time that trans/feminism comes into being, largely because of the rejection of the various established feminist traditions - but all this stuff is pretty fluid - one thing flows into another. But it's pretty clear that some 3rd wavers were concerned with trans issues, no doubt about that.

My remembered impression is of Kimberle Crenshaw and Judith Butler being the twin titans of that zeitgeist, with Crenshaw delineating intersectionality and Butler positing the social construct of gender and arguing for its eventual eradication as an ontological system as necessary for human equality. But it's been a while, and yeah I'm sure there've been all kinds of subsequent developments. And I studied it from the philosophical angle, so I'm not sure what eradication of gender would really entail in the field.

[xianjiro]

Mmm unless it's changed a lot since my college days that's what a whole sector of 3rd wave feminism is about.

not really certain, but I tend to association trans/feminism more with the 4th wave But honestly, most of the 'card carrying' feminists I have known were 1st or 2nd wave -- or radicals

For me, intersectionality is the key to the 3rd wave and it's during this time that trans/feminism comes into being, largely because of the rejection of the various established feminist traditions - but all this stuff is pretty fluid - one thing flows into another. But it's pretty clear that some 3rd wavers were concerned with trans issues, no doubt about that.

My remembered impression is of Kimberle Crenshaw and Judith Butler being the twin titans of that zeitgeist, with Crenshaw delineating intersectionality and Butler positing the social construct of gender and arguing for its eventual eradication as an ontological system as necessary for human equality. But it's been a while, and yeah I'm sure there've been all kinds of subsequent developments. And I studied it from the philosophical angle, so I'm not sure what eradication of gender would really entail in the field.

Hope that helps you Armo! (Good summary, BTW, prod )

[Armoreska]

Well at least it confirms that this idea's not that popular.
Even though there are popular videos that are even sex abolitionist (I think):
https://www.youtube.com/c/RileyJayDenni ... =construct

[prodigalgodson]

not really certain, but I tend to association trans/feminism more with the 4th wave But honestly, most of the 'card carrying' feminists I have known were 1st or 2nd wave -- or radicals

For me, intersectionality is the key to the 3rd wave and it's during this time that trans/feminism comes into being, largely because of the rejection of the various established feminist traditions - but all this stuff is pretty fluid - one thing flows into another. But it's pretty clear that some 3rd wavers were concerned with trans issues, no doubt about that.

My remembered impression is of Kimberle Crenshaw and Judith Butler being the twin titans of that zeitgeist, with Crenshaw delineating intersectionality and Butler positing the social construct of gender and arguing for its eventual eradication as an ontological system as necessary for human equality. But it's been a while, and yeah I'm sure there've been all kinds of subsequent developments. And I studied it from the philosophical angle, so I'm not sure what eradication of gender would really entail in the field.

Hope that helps you Armo! (Good summary, BTW, prod )

Thanks jiro, I try :p

[Pretentious Hipster]

[Pretentious Hipster]

Wow how can this fly over people's heads?

[xianjiro]

that last one should be a test for toxic masculinity

[OldAle1]

that last one should be a test for toxic masculinity

Maybe. Looks like a joke to me, but who can tell?

[xianjiro]

that last one should be a test for toxic masculinity

Maybe. Looks like a joke to me, but who can tell?

well, all I can say is that's a sentence I never expect to come out of a woman's mouth (though I'm sure it probably has once or twice)

[Fergenaprido]

Yeah, I followed the links and read the articles... The Hard Times and Hard Drive are part of the same site, and seem to publish satire like The Onion.

[matthewscott8]

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled today that an employer cannot fire an individual for merely being gay or transgender. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/1 ... 8_hfci.pdf

It was a 6-3 decision with Gorsuch and Roberts forming the majority with the four liberal justices.

I can't believe this is even a question in 2020.

[matthewscott8]

Anyone has informed opinion on radical feminism (non-TERF) and contemporary or eventual gender abolition?

not sure what you're asking, but I know that for the most part, feminist lesbians have had issues with FtoM trans people and transitioning.

My take on the whole JK Rowling mess is that she's at least an old school feminist if not a radical feminist and thus her need to draw a line between women who menstruate and women who don't (and aren't really women).

I would be surprised if any feminist movement actually supported gender abolition though I'm certain there are some individuals who do.

JK Rowling has stood by Johnny Depp today, not really sure what she is up to. Maybe a reaction against cancel culture given that she's had problems with it too. Doesn't feel like she'd be popular with any type of feminist.

I don't really get the menstruating thing, does it mean post-menopausal women are not in fact women. All my women friends are on the pill, are they not women. Does it mean that until her first period, a girl is not actually female.

[Armoreska]

I made a master list out of searchable transgender movie lists
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/top+ ... armoreska/
nobody's made a list of any so far other than within LGBT lists

How many have you seen?

[Armoreska]

Are there (m)any movies about I,A,A or P is what I want to know

first Intersex list but no good source as yet
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/inte ... armoreska/

first Pansexual list but mostly TV
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/pans ... armoreska/

No points for guessing the number of vegansexual characters out there.

I seem to have cornered the market for creating lists based on progressive issues
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/?pag ... :armoreska
any more ideas?

other than the asexual list cuz I already made one:
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/asex ... armoreska/

Spoiler

looking into NB representation

[peeptoad]

I made a master list out of searchable transgender movie lists
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/top+ ... armoreska/
nobody's made a list of any so far other than within LGBT lists

How many have you seen?

This should come in handy next June. I've only seen 4.

[GruesomeTwosome]

I made a master list out of searchable transgender movie lists
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/top+ ... armoreska/
nobody's made a list of any so far other than within LGBT lists

How many have you seen?

I've seen 7 of those (and note that one of them is Orange is the New Black, which is a TV series). And I guess The Matrix is on there solely because of the Wachowskis' transitions, because I don't recall anything transgender-related in the movie itself. Or are there interpretations of the film as an allegory/metaphor for gender identity maybe?

[Armoreska]

Or are their interpretations of the film as an allegory/metaphor for gender identity maybe?

but of course. be amazed, dont miss the video by Now You See It
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... trix+trans

im at also-meager 13

[Fergenaprido]

I'm at 19, with 4 more that have been in my watchlist for ages. I've also seen the first 4 or 5 episodes of OITNB, but haven't checked it.
I've seen 2 on the intersex list, and 2 on the pansexual list (though I thought the lead in Appropriate Behaviour was bisexual, not pansexual... it's been a while since I saw it) but I started Schitt's Creek this month and I've finished season 1 so far.

Edit: Sorry, I just realized your list is a Top Transgender List, not All Transgender list. So no need to add the films below to your list. They're ordered by my order of preference (except the last 5 - those are the ones I've seen this year and I haven't ordered them yet - if people are looking for more options)

For your trans list, these are films I've seen that I've tagged as related to the topic but aren't listed in one of your sources. Some have only minor trans characters (but ones that are important to the plot), are really recent, or flew under the radar because they're foreign/super-indie/not good :

Spoiler

Dog Day Afternoon
Tokyo Godfathers
The Law of Desire
Shortbus
The Skin I Live In
Water Drops on Burning Rocks
Louis Theroux: Transgender Kids
Bad Education (Almódovar)
Lola Pater
Hide and Seek (Pakistani film)
Tranny Fag
Funeral Parade of Roses
Call Me Marianna
Look At Me Again
Between Love and Goodbye
Eating Out 4
She-Man: A Story of Fixation
Eating Out 5
So Pretty
The New Girlfriend
The Death and Life of Marsha P. Johnson
Indianara
Close-Knit
Disclosure

I've got more tagged as trans in my spreadsheet that I haven't seen yet, if you want me to list those as well.

I forgot that Better Than Chocolate had a trans character, and had Breakfast on Pluto mislabelled as gay + drag instead of trans.
Also, I don't think To Wong Foo has any trans characters (or at least not any significant ones) - the three leads are all drag queens, but identify as gay men as far as I can recall.

[xianjiro]

I made a master list out of searchable transgender movie lists
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/top+ ... armoreska/
nobody's made a list of any so far other than within LGBT lists

How many have you seen?

25

[xianjiro]

I made a master list out of searchable transgender movie lists
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/top+ ... armoreska/
nobody's made a list of any so far other than within LGBT lists

How many have you seen?

I've seen 7 of those (and note that one of them is Orange is the New Black, which is a TV series). And I guess The Matrix is on there solely because of the Wachowskis' transitions, because I don't recall anything transgender-related in the movie itself. Or are there interpretations of the film as an allegory/metaphor for gender identity maybe?

I recall reading that they intended Matrix to have some sort of trans allegory/metaphor in its creation though I don't remember the specifics. Even more so with Cloud Atlas. But then again, I don't remember either particularly well and any movie that contains the theme of feeling like one is something one is not could be considered allegory for the trans experience.

But yeah, I initially was like - how is Matrix an LGBTQ+ film?!? (This from the the guy who reminds folks Fight Club is as well every chance he gets).

[xianjiro]

Also, I don't think To Wong Foo has any trans characters (or at least not any significant ones) - the three leads are all drag queens, but identify as gay men as far as I can recall.

I tend to agree, but then again, given it was made in the first half of the 90s - and the only other thing of the sort to have had much mainstream acceptance around that time in the US would have been Hedwig - it might have been that the filmmakers were just not completely comfortable to fight to make any of them be trans characters. Initially, I'd say Vida was the farthest along the journey, but really, all live as women pretty much full time on their road trip and even in NYC. For these three men, living in drag is about their fabulous sense of style, though clearly one is just learning, but remember Noxie's line - I paraphrase - when talking about/to Chi-Chi - "you're just a boy in a dress."

If a man puts on women's clothing and parades on stage only for the money (or challenge, much like the actors in the movie) they aren't really LGBTQ+, and I've seen the phrase "gender illusionist' bandied about for such straight men. But being trans is a spectrum which I thought Tranny Fag showed pretty darn well: not everyone is interested in the surgery and some even stay away from the hormone therapy but still live their lives as either in between or the other gender or all of the above depending on context, mood, etc. So it's much more nebulous and I bristle at "this is required to be considered trans, but this isn't". And this doesn't really delve into the F2M experience: there's much less pressure on transmen to do the medical interventions.

Mention this less to make the case that Too Wong Foo ... is a 'trans film' as it isn't, but just providing a bit of context. It would certainly be a great discussion question though for people trying to understand these issues.

Once again, why Priscilla is miles farther down the road.

[Fergenaprido]

Fair points.

And yes, Priscilla is by far the better film, IMO.

Perhaps to non-queer folks, the drag queens in Wong Foo seem like transwomen, even though that wasn't something really well-understood or discussed back then. Wong Foo just felt like an American attempt to cash in on the cult success of Priscilla, while removing all of the nuance and the gravity that made Priscilla so wonderful. That being said, Wong Foo is still a fun film, and I don't resent it being made, but I think the only groundbreaking aspect of it is having A-List masculine actors starring in the film and not being ashamed of it (even pursuing those roles) or having the characters suffer some tragic demise.

I don't know if I would link Wong Foo (1995) with Hedwig (1998 play, 2001 film) - they feel like two different eras to me, especially because in between the New Queer Cinema movement really gained a lot of traction, and gay films and gay characters started to achieve much more (positive) prominence. Philadelphia came out in 1993 and that had a lot of positive mainstream acceptance. Maybe even The Birdcage (1996) and In & Out (1998), which took more comedic routes but were quite popular as I recall.

Just realized that perhaps you're linking them because of the trans themes, not the queer ones. In that case, I kind of see where you're coming from.

[xianjiro]

Also, I don't think To Wong Foo has any trans characters (or at least not any significant ones) - the three leads are all drag queens, but identify as gay men as far as I can recall.

crap, screwed something up, post lost

I was writing about the production of Priscilla and TWF (I remember reading an article while still in Japan about both being in production). I'd also mentioned that Tootsie and Some Like It Hot were other cross-dressing films that aren't queer.

Also mentioned, not sure why I though Hedwig came out earlier than it did, but yes, mentioned it because of the trans theme.