LGBTQQIAAP ICM

[monty]

Just remembered a few more:

Soldier's Girl (2003)
Beautiful Boxer [2004]

[Coco LaBerge]

So it looks like gay people are being put into camps in Chechnya or something along these lines http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/chechnya-detai ... st-1616363. Sometimes I hate the world.

[xianjiro]

I fear it might be something worse than camps - well, at least one can be liberated from a camp.

And some people wonder why I can't stand Putin.

[xianjiro]

3eyes shared this with me and now I pass it along to anyone who might be interested:

Philly-based streaming service's niche: serving the G in LGBT

Thanks for the headsup, 3eyes!

[albajos]

So I just found out that there is a movie (from Canada) called

A Very Cool Christmas

that has an alternative version, where they switch out the mother in the family, and she instead has another dad, this one is called

Too Cool for Christmas


These two versions was clearly shot simultaniously just switching out that one performer in between shots. (No dialogue has been changed, just the gender)


So is this a one-of-a-kind thing, or do other movies exist that have done the same thing?

[xianjiro]

Is your question queer specific or would you consider something like Dracula - English cast during the day, Spanish cast during the night - similar in nature?

[maxwelldeux]

Is your question queer specific or would you consider something like Dracula - English cast during the day, Spanish cast during the night - similar in nature?

Good follow-up question! Wasn't that a common practice in early Hollywood?

[matthewscott8]

Just found this board. I've got a male body and look about as male as anyone can get, big, hairy, 6 foot 7. I only find women/femininity attractive. Masculinity is something I just can't find attractive, in fact it's endlessly repulsive to me. But I don't like my body appearance at all, I'd like to be a woman. If I were petite and effeminate, transition would be an option, but it's just not. Sex-wise my focus is not on penetration or controlling a woman. The way I like sex is much more the way some lesbians might have sex. Which is tricky, because a lot of women who would be attracted to a big guy like me want to be thrown around like a rag doll. I sometimes crossdress at home, generally wearing elements of feminine clothing with my normal clothing, I don't like wearing full drag because I don't look feminine enough to pass. I can't go outdoors like that because society in the UK is still too transphobic. Unless I relocated to one of the few places where it's ok. Anyway all this stuff seems to make it impossible for me to have a partner, so I'm down about it quite a lot, though I have some level of acceptance that I'll always be alone. I wonder a lot about how innate my feelings are, or whether it's nurture. My father was abusive, as were most of my male teachers at school. So I don't know how much that plays into it.

[albajos]

Is your question queer specific or would you consider something like Dracula - English cast during the day, Spanish cast during the night - similar in nature?

Good follow-up question! Wasn't that a common practice in early Hollywood?

Well, there are more examples for that.

Kon-Tiki was shot in a norwegian and english version, the english one only for investors, nobody else have seen it
Orions Belte was also shot in 2 version, one for national and one for internation release.

I'm guessing there are very many examples on this from what are concidered "foreign language" countries.

---

No, since this is the thread it is the question are is the gender switch reshoots. Are it just because this was Canada, so they made one for canadian TV, and one for US TV?

[xianjiro]

Just found this board. I've got a male body and look about as male as anyone can get, big, hairy, 6 foot 7. I only find women/femininity attractive. Masculinity is something I just can't find attractive, in fact it's endlessly repulsive to me. But I don't like my body appearance at all, I'd like to be a woman. If I were petite and effeminate, transition would be an option, but it's just not. Sex-wise my focus is not on penetration or controlling a woman. The way I like sex is much more the way some lesbians might have sex. Which is tricky, because a lot of women who would be attracted to a big guy like me want to be thrown around like a rag doll. I sometimes crossdress at home, generally wearing elements of feminine clothing with my normal clothing, I don't like wearing full drag because I don't look feminine enough to pass. I can't go outdoors like that because society in the UK is still too transphobic. Unless I relocated to one of the few places where it's ok. Anyway all this stuff seems to make it impossible for me to have a partner, so I'm down about it quite a lot, though I have some level of acceptance that I'll always be alone. I wonder a lot about how innate my feelings are, or whether it's nurture. My father was abusive, as were most of my male teachers at school. So I don't know how much that plays into it.

Thanks for giving us some backstory - it's always good to hear about what makes individuals feel other and it's why we've got all those letters in the title. All are welcome.

I can't say I've had lots of personal contact with those desiring of a transition or what we have called cross dressers. Like so much, recognizing the spectrum of human emotions, desires, and experiences is as applicable in your experience and I always try to accept people as they are, without judgement, especially 'thou should (not) ... ' type stuff when it comes to another's gender and sexual expression.

That said, a friend had a landlord who considered himself quite straight but liked to wear women's clothing. Even a very small town in a conservative county well outside the liberal city elected an openly cross-dressing, married to a woman, straight man as mayor. But it was still in Oregon (not some place like Kansas or Alabama). So there are others out there who have felt much like you do.

May I ask if you've had any luck finding a forum that deals with gender non-conformity? I'd be very surprised if there isn't something happening in the UK and in a wider sense Europe where people can associate with each other on their own terms. Have you seen Southern Comfort yet? While much more focused on the trans experience, I mention it because it's set in the South - probably the last place in this country one would expect to be welcoming in any way.

Maybe others have some resources they could share? I think for something like this Google could be quite intimidating.

[xianjiro]

Is your question queer specific or would you consider something like Dracula - English cast during the day, Spanish cast during the night - similar in nature?

Good follow-up question! Wasn't that a common practice in early Hollywood?

Well, there are more examples for that.

Kon-Tiki was shot in a norwegian and english version, the english one only for investors, nobody else have seen it
Orions Belte was also shot in 2 version, one for national and one for internation release.

I'm guessing there are very many examples on this from what are concidered "foreign language" countries.

---

No, since this is the thread it is the question are is the gender switch reshoots. Are it just because this was Canada, so they made one for canadian TV, and one for US TV?

okay, just wanted to be clear and now you've got my curiosity up!

Can't say I've ever heard of this type of situation, but it sounds like a great case study. So no, I no of no other productions which have swapped out a character in such a manner, but then again, I haven't seen everything.

Every time I think I've had an original idea, I Google it and find out just how many have had the same idea. It's hard to believe this is actually the first time it's been done - maybe it's just the first time it's been done commercially?

Still, quite interesting.

[matthewscott8]

Just found this board. I've got a male body and look about as male as anyone can get, big, hairy, 6 foot 7. I only find women/femininity attractive. Masculinity is something I just can't find attractive, in fact it's endlessly repulsive to me. But I don't like my body appearance at all, I'd like to be a woman. If I were petite and effeminate, transition would be an option, but it's just not. Sex-wise my focus is not on penetration or controlling a woman. The way I like sex is much more the way some lesbians might have sex. Which is tricky, because a lot of women who would be attracted to a big guy like me want to be thrown around like a rag doll. I sometimes crossdress at home, generally wearing elements of feminine clothing with my normal clothing, I don't like wearing full drag because I don't look feminine enough to pass. I can't go outdoors like that because society in the UK is still too transphobic. Unless I relocated to one of the few places where it's ok. Anyway all this stuff seems to make it impossible for me to have a partner, so I'm down about it quite a lot, though I have some level of acceptance that I'll always be alone. I wonder a lot about how innate my feelings are, or whether it's nurture. My father was abusive, as were most of my male teachers at school. So I don't know how much that plays into it.

Thanks for giving us some backstory - it's always good to hear about what makes individuals feel other and it's why we've got all those letters in the title. All are welcome.

I can't say I've had lots of personal contact with those desiring of a transition or what we have called cross dressers. Like so much, recognizing the spectrum of human emotions, desires, and experiences is as applicable in your experience and I always try to accept people as they are, without judgement, especially 'thou should (not) ... ' type stuff when it comes to another's gender and sexual expression.

That said, a friend had a landlord who considered himself quite straight but liked to wear women's clothing. Even a very small town in a conservative county well outside the liberal city elected an openly cross-dressing, married to a woman, straight man as mayor. But it was still in Oregon (not some place like Kansas or Alabama). So there are others out there who have felt much like you do.

May I ask if you've had any luck finding a forum that deals with gender non-conformity? I'd be very surprised if there isn't something happening in the UK and in a wider sense Europe where people can associate with each other on their own terms. Have you seen Southern Comfort yet? While much more focused on the trans experience, I mention it because it's set in the South - probably the last place in this country one would expect to be welcoming in any way.

Maybe others have some resources they could share? I think for something like this Google could be quite intimidating.

My identity is very complex. I wouldn't identify as straight, or trans, or lesbian. I've never really seen any word I could use. Two-spirit is close, but Native Americans have reasonably objected to the cultural appropriation of this term. I wonder if there should be a letter N in there for "not yet identified grouping" lol. I guess as well the overwhelmingly significant cultural association I have is with film, which is why I'm ll over film forums all the time. The film which I felt was closest to having something to do with my sexuality was Francois Ozon's The New Girlfriend. I would like to know what it's like to go to sleep for the first night as who I really am.

I guess as well where I come from is quite different to the South in the US. It's perfectly fine to be gay or lesbian here. It's a lot less fine to be religious lol. But "trans" (for want of a better word) is different, you get feminists who are very upset about the idea. I guess what I'm saying is people are OK about sexuality differences, but they get funny about gender.

[xianjiro]

New ground for people is always difficult.

Maybe we could add "N" to the end of our list. It could also mean "none of the above". ;)

[albajos]

Well, Queer is a umbrella definition on everything.

[xianjiro]

Well, Queer is a umbrella definition on everything.

I hear tales of young people refering to themselves as Gender Queers now

[nimimerkillinen]

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/f ... w-confirms

[GruesomeTwosome]

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/f ... w-confirms

Wow...the fuckin' 70s, man!

[xianjiro]

So, was Leni Riefenstahl queer? I'm watching my final film from the Criterion Olympics collection (her films are among four rewatches I saved until the end) and at the start of both I'm thinking she has to be the first AMG photographer - all these either barely clad or totally nude men out frolicking and sporting and all. Seriously, all that I can think when I see these scenes is 'this is so AMG, thirty years before its time'!

[albajos]

The point is to show of the aryan race. (Also, historical olympic games were held in the nude)

The amount of nudity in movies in the 1910s-1930s was not to rare in Europe or even the States at the time. At that time movies was concidered a expansion on photography art and just showed the same things as photographies did, and nobody cared.

[xianjiro]

Well, I guess that's why I thought the first part of the first part odd since there they were almost wearing their little posing straps. I would have expected that part to be nude, not the then modern day Aryans on a nude run through the forest. Sure, the nude schwitz made sense and the skinny dip went along.

Anyway, I've decided on a new advertising slogan for these two films as restored:

Olympia I: Chock full of fascists!
Olympia II: Now with even more fascists in every reel!

I'm all fascisted out! Will have to cleanse my visual palette (rerun the first sequence from II? ) and take a long summer's nap.

[Fergenaprido]

What is AMG? Google tells me it's cars, but that doesn't sound right.

[GruesomeTwosome]

What is AMG? Google tells me it's cars, but that doesn't sound right.

Athletic Model Guild

[albajos]

Official challenge here:

LGBTIQ+ Challenge

[3eyes]

I just went back and read this thread from the beginning. The long view helps....

was thinking: half a century ago I "invented" the word infernation, meaning the opposite of sublimation. For me it's the pressure to view everything in terms of sex -- freer sexual mores translate into meaning there's something wrong with you if you aren't prepared to screw on demand, etc. Resonate with anyone?

[xianjiro]

now sex seems more like a video game

[matthewscott8]

Sex? What's that, can't remember.

[Fergenaprido]

Just found this board. I've got a male body and look about as male as anyone can get, big, hairy, 6 foot 7. I only find women/femininity attractive. Masculinity is something I just can't find attractive, in fact it's endlessly repulsive to me. But I don't like my body appearance at all, I'd like to be a woman. If I were petite and effeminate, transition would be an option, but it's just not. Sex-wise my focus is not on penetration or controlling a woman. The way I like sex is much more the way some lesbians might have sex. Which is tricky, because a lot of women who would be attracted to a big guy like me want to be thrown around like a rag doll. I sometimes crossdress at home, generally wearing elements of feminine clothing with my normal clothing, I don't like wearing full drag because I don't look feminine enough to pass. I can't go outdoors like that because society in the UK is still too transphobic. Unless I relocated to one of the few places where it's ok. Anyway all this stuff seems to make it impossible for me to have a partner, so I'm down about it quite a lot, though I have some level of acceptance that I'll always be alone. I wonder a lot about how innate my feelings are, or whether it's nurture. My father was abusive, as were most of my male teachers at school. So I don't know how much that plays into it.

Thanks for giving us some backstory - it's always good to hear about what makes individuals feel other and it's why we've got all those letters in the title. All are welcome.

I can't say I've had lots of personal contact with those desiring of a transition or what we have called cross dressers. Like so much, recognizing the spectrum of human emotions, desires, and experiences is as applicable in your experience and I always try to accept people as they are, without judgement, especially 'thou should (not) ... ' type stuff when it comes to another's gender and sexual expression.

That said, a friend had a landlord who considered himself quite straight but liked to wear women's clothing. Even a very small town in a conservative county well outside the liberal city elected an openly cross-dressing, married to a woman, straight man as mayor. But it was still in Oregon (not some place like Kansas or Alabama). So there are others out there who have felt much like you do.

May I ask if you've had any luck finding a forum that deals with gender non-conformity? I'd be very surprised if there isn't something happening in the UK and in a wider sense Europe where people can associate with each other on their own terms. Have you seen Southern Comfort yet? While much more focused on the trans experience, I mention it because it's set in the South - probably the last place in this country one would expect to be welcoming in any way.

Maybe others have some resources they could share? I think for something like this Google could be quite intimidating.

My identity is very complex. I wouldn't identify as straight, or trans, or lesbian. I've never really seen any word I could use. Two-spirit is close, but Native Americans have reasonably objected to the cultural appropriation of this term. I wonder if there should be a letter N in there for "not yet identified grouping" lol. I guess as well the overwhelmingly significant cultural association I have is with film, which is why I'm ll over film forums all the time. The film which I felt was closest to having something to do with my sexuality was Francois Ozon's The New Girlfriend. I would like to know what it's like to go to sleep for the first night as who I really am.

I guess as well where I come from is quite different to the South in the US. It's perfectly fine to be gay or lesbian here. It's a lot less fine to be religious lol. But "trans" (for want of a better word) is different, you get feminists who are very upset about the idea. I guess what I'm saying is people are OK about sexuality differences, but they get funny about gender.

I don't know why I didn't comment on this earlier, but thank you for opening up and sharing matthew. I'm curious as to your thoughts on Eddie Izzard. He's someone who dresses up in women's clothing, but also doesn't fit the mould of what a "feminine" person looks like, even in a dress. Another similar concept to me would be the hijra, or third gender, from South Asian society. I can't think of any movies that showcase that front and centre, but there is one hijra character in Deepa Mehta's Water that may give you a better sense of what I'm picturing.

Heck, even for those of us that perhaps conform more to society norms of what a man or woman should look like, there's still dread and uncertainty (and, at least for me, a begrudging acceptance) that we may end up alone.

I'm not aware of any online space for gender-non-conforming individuals, but I feel like in this day and age that space must exist. Given how general society can be so unwelcoming at times, though, it might be the sort of thing that is available but not widely advertised, for fear of reprisal. Depending on where you are in the UK, there may be some local resources/organizations that could help point you in the right direction.

Xianjiro, that documentary looks interesting, especially since we're in the middle of a challenge. Where were you able to see it? (PM me if necessary)

[xianjiro]

I got Southern Comfort from my library. Should have it next Thursday - will PM you about it next weekend if all goes well. Okay?

BTW, saw Bumbai (official checks on Bollywood and Asian Cinema lists) earlier this month. Overall I considered it 'average' (7 on my IMDb rating system) mostly due to being heavy handed with its important message, but a hijra character played a key role in the third act though I don't remember that character earlier in the film - okay, maybe a bit deus ex machina, but really only in a literary sense. Of course my initial response was surprise and then a bit of joy since, while hijra aren't unheard of in Bollywood films, this character was just a character providing much needed shelter and comfort and not comic relief. I don't claim to have seen that many Bollywood films yet, but I'm working on it - anyway, most of the times I've seen with hijra, I'd say the camp value tends to run a bit on the high side. I know there was another - no idea how long ago I saw it - where a hijra community were tangential to the 'pleasure' quarters. I've also seen them in at least one production number.

Interestingly enough, and though I'm not anywhere near educated on the matter, I understand that some Native American cultures also have this tradition - the Two Spirits @matthewscott8 mentions. I only mention it again since I find it interesting that 'older' cultures don't necessarily have an aversion to gender nonconformity the way those that derive their spiritual understanding from Semitic origins have.

[maxwelldeux]

I got Southern Comfort from my library. Should have it next Thursday - will PM you about it next weekend if all goes well. Okay?

It also seems to be available on YT:

SpoilerShow

[xianjiro]

I got Southern Comfort from my library. Should have it next Thursday - will PM you about it next weekend if all goes well. Okay?

It also seems to be available on YT:

SpoilerShow

Cool! Yeah, that's it and the rip doesn't look half bad either. But let me know if you can't see it that way.

[Fergenaprido]

I got Southern Comfort from my library. Should have it next Thursday - will PM you about it next weekend if all goes well. Okay?

It also seems to be available on YT:

SpoilerShow

Cool! Yeah, that's it and the rip doesn't look half bad either. But let me know if you can't see it that way.

Appears to work for me, so this should suffice. Many thanks

[matthewscott8]

Oh yeah for sure my Anglo ancestors and Middle Easterners exported all the horrible Abrahamic views on gender and sexuality all over the world. Despite a lot of people now being atheists they've clung on to it all.

Although I mentioned Two Spirit, the first time I was really aware of "third gender" (don't much appreciate that term), was when I saw a documentary about Fa'afafine culture in Samoa many years ago. Fa'afafine people are born male but associate with female cultural identity. They are still having to deal with and de-colonise from all the crap that the Anglos and Catholic Church brought with them.

Eddie Izzard is on TV a lot in the UK, I imagine most people think of Eddie as gay, but yes he is straight. I hadn't really thought about him a lot, in terms of a role model, maybe Grayson Perry is who I have thought about more. I have started to notice in Bristol where I live that trans and non-binary is more of an open thing now, and I probably look at how those people dress and behave a lot more, rather than celebrities. I can't really get the clothes though. I find it hard enough to get male clothes. If I wanted to come to work in a cardigan and a long skirt, those clothes just don't exist in my size. And a lot of female clothes only work with female body sizes and shapes. Particularly for me wearing heels would be absurd at already 6 ft 7

Thanks for giving us some backstory - it's always good to hear about what makes individuals feel other and it's why we've got all those letters in the title. All are welcome.

I can't say I've had lots of personal contact with those desiring of a transition or what we have called cross dressers. Like so much, recognizing the spectrum of human emotions, desires, and experiences is as applicable in your experience and I always try to accept people as they are, without judgement, especially 'thou should (not) ... ' type stuff when it comes to another's gender and sexual expression.

That said, a friend had a landlord who considered himself quite straight but liked to wear women's clothing. Even a very small town in a conservative county well outside the liberal city elected an openly cross-dressing, married to a woman, straight man as mayor. But it was still in Oregon (not some place like Kansas or Alabama). So there are others out there who have felt much like you do.

May I ask if you've had any luck finding a forum that deals with gender non-conformity? I'd be very surprised if there isn't something happening in the UK and in a wider sense Europe where people can associate with each other on their own terms. Have you seen Southern Comfort yet? While much more focused on the trans experience, I mention it because it's set in the South - probably the last place in this country one would expect to be welcoming in any way.

Maybe others have some resources they could share? I think for something like this Google could be quite intimidating.

My identity is very complex. I wouldn't identify as straight, or trans, or lesbian. I've never really seen any word I could use. Two-spirit is close, but Native Americans have reasonably objected to the cultural appropriation of this term. I wonder if there should be a letter N in there for "not yet identified grouping" lol. I guess as well the overwhelmingly significant cultural association I have is with film, which is why I'm ll over film forums all the time. The film which I felt was closest to having something to do with my sexuality was Francois Ozon's The New Girlfriend. I would like to know what it's like to go to sleep for the first night as who I really am.

I guess as well where I come from is quite different to the South in the US. It's perfectly fine to be gay or lesbian here. It's a lot less fine to be religious lol. But "trans" (for want of a better word) is different, you get feminists who are very upset about the idea. I guess what I'm saying is people are OK about sexuality differences, but they get funny about gender.

I don't know why I didn't comment on this earlier, but thank you for opening up and sharing matthew. I'm curious as to your thoughts on Eddie Izzard. He's someone who dresses up in women's clothing, but also doesn't fit the mould of what a "feminine" person looks like, even in a dress. Another similar concept to me would be the hijra, or third gender, from South Asian society. I can't think of any movies that showcase that front and centre, but there is one hijra character in Deepa Mehta's Water that may give you a better sense of what I'm picturing.

Heck, even for those of us that perhaps conform more to society norms of what a man or woman should look like, there's still dread and uncertainty (and, at least for me, a begrudging acceptance) that we may end up alone.

I'm not aware of any online space for gender-non-conforming individuals, but I feel like in this day and age that space must exist. Given how general society can be so unwelcoming at times, though, it might be the sort of thing that is available but not widely advertised, for fear of reprisal. Depending on where you are in the UK, there may be some local resources/organizations that could help point you in the right direction.

Xianjiro, that documentary looks interesting, especially since we're in the middle of a challenge. Where were you able to see it? (PM me if necessary)

[xianjiro]

This thread needs a bump, so ...

Judge rules in favor of student in Virginia transgender bathroom case