Welcome to the ICM Forum. If you have an account but have trouble logging in, or have other questions, see THIS THREAD.
500<400 (Nominations Sep 22nd)
Polls: Benelux (Results), 1944 awards (Sep 23rd), 1964 (Sep 28th), Knockout competition (Round 1)
Challenges: Silent Era, 21st Century, Japan
Film of the Week: Reindeerspotting - pako Joulumaasta, October nominations (Sep 27th)

LGBTQQIAAP ICM

Post Reply
User avatar
monty
Posts: 12749
Joined: May 09, 2011
Contact:

LGBTQQIAAP ICM

#281

Post by monty » October 31st, 2015, 3:05 am

Any gay bashing fanned by the release of Cruising is deeply lamentable but I still defend F's right to make the film he wanted, a crime thriller set to what he found "an interesting backdrop" - the gay leather scene.

Also, consider this:
Before we meet Pacino, we see another pair pair of cops viciously harassing two gay street prostitutes to the point of orally raping them.
Friedkin contrasts the police officers’ state-sanctioned sadism with the consensual, practically playful kind found in the bars. When a detail of cops breaks in on Pacino and a man they suspect is the killer, to find Pacino naked and hog-tied on his belly, they bring both men to the station. There, a tall, muscular black cop wearing only a jockstrap brutally assaults Pacino and his hysterical partner. If Friedkin — who has been called the “purest and most impersonal technician” of directors — shows any sympathy in Cruising, it is for this and other gay victims of state-sponsored brutality.
Last edited by monty on October 31st, 2015, 3:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

mjf314
Moderator
Posts: 10800
Joined: May 08, 2011
Contact:

#282

Post by mjf314 » October 31st, 2015, 3:07 am

xianjiro on Oct 30 2015, 08:53:55 PM wrote:Could Triumph of the Will have been meant more to boost the egocentrism of those subscribing to the Nazi line? Or maybe push those fellow travelers into the camp?

I don't think many arguments, however they are made (ahem, including here) are likely to be successful at changing the view of someone who is opposed to the argument to begin with. Personally, I think people who like propagandist arguments and media are those already predisposed to that argument. One wants one's viewpoint reinforced.
Maybe that was the intention, but I don't think it did a good job of that. Maybe people watched the film and saw the crowds of people and thought "there are so many Nazis that being a Nazi must be cool," but the film could have accomplished the same thing if it was a 10-minute short. The speeches were so bad that I can imagine Nazis deciding to stop being Nazis after watching the film, but maybe some Nazis liked to listen to Hitler's charismatic voice without paying attention to what he was saying.

Jay Mars
Posts: 2005
Joined: Jan 22, 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

#283

Post by Jay Mars » October 31st, 2015, 3:11 am

monty on Oct 30 2015, 09:05:01 PM wrote:Any gay bashing fanned by the release of Cruising is deeply lamentable but I still defend F's right to make the film he wanted, a crime thriller set to what he found "an interesting backdrop" - the gay leather scene.
OK. Good. You're defending a right no one here was contesting. Got it. Free speech organizations are polishing up their Hero Awards just for you.

User avatar
monty
Posts: 12749
Joined: May 09, 2011
Contact:

#284

Post by monty » October 31st, 2015, 3:16 am

Also, consider this:

Pacino’s portrayal of an “innocent” heterosexual who becomes obsessed with an extreme corner of the gay world might have been welcomed by a more enlightened gay press, since it shows dramatically Friedkin’s view of how precarious and easily toppled heterosexuality really is. The director contrasts the bourgeois sterility of Pacino’s relationship with Karen Allen, with the excitement and pleasure not just of the leather world but also of the more mainstream world of homosexuality exemplified by Ted, whose creativity and sweetness Pacino finds attractive. The murders seem almost incidental to homosexuality, and the connection most gay reviewers saw between the killer and gayness is far from clear. The killer is shown more as a deranged psychopath than as a logical outgrowth of the s&m world (his victims are, after all, gay s&m’ers). He is an outsider to the s&m world he haunts, explicitly rejected by other gay characters including Ted.
If Cruising links anyone to the killer, it is Pacino. The most interesting aspect of the film is that Friedkin subtly implies that Pacino — the good cop and hope for a bright heterosexual future — has himself become a killer. His hysterical assault on Ted’s boyfriend implies his romantic interest in Ted.In a shot almost too brief to register (more of those pesky cuts, no doubt),
Spoiler: click to toggleShow
Pacino is seen walking in full leather in long shot, after he supposedly has ended his undercover work. In the next scene, Ted is found stabbed to death
.[/i]

Also, as for the character of Ted,
Pacino's character uses him to learn information but also becomes his friend. When the wrong man is arrested, Pacino tells his superior, played by Paul Sorvino, that he didn't sign on for this so that they can arrest anyone just because he is gay.
Last edited by monty on October 31st, 2015, 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jay Mars
Posts: 2005
Joined: Jan 22, 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

#285

Post by Jay Mars » October 31st, 2015, 3:51 am

Retrospective interpretations don't capture what it was like to be gay in 1980. My last word: Try reading Vito Russo's piece in New York Magazine. During the filming of the movie he interviewed Friedkin (who repeats all the same things you've been saying), but also talked to gay men who worked on the movie and who lived in the neighborhoods it was filmed in. (And, surprise, someone brings up Birth of a Nation.) Their concerns and fears about an outside exploiting a sensational aspect of gay culture for his mystery/thriller were not unfounded.

Kas likes the movie, but he accepts it's problematic. I don't understand why it's an issue for you to acknowledge other people's perspectives.

User avatar
monty
Posts: 12749
Joined: May 09, 2011
Contact:

#286

Post by monty » October 31st, 2015, 4:25 am

Oh, I'm not saying the film's not problematic but then again isn't all true art problematic to some extent?
Also, do you discount the anti-homophobic stance Friedkin takes when it comes to police brutality against gays?
Allow me again to remind you of the scene with the black cop (in a jockstrap) violently assaulting Pacino's caracter during the interrogation at the police station + Pacino's character saying he didn't sign on for this so that they can arrest anyone just because he is gay + the scene where two cops are harrassing two gay street prostitutes to the point of orally raping them. It's pretty clear in all the scenes where F's sympathy lies - and it's not with the police.

I'll be reading that article tomorrow. Cheers.
Last edited by monty on October 31st, 2015, 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
XxXApathy420XxX
Donator
Posts: 18858
Joined: Oct 24, 2011
Contact:

#287

Post by XxXApathy420XxX » October 31st, 2015, 8:28 am

Forgot to mention it, I didn't chicken out today and I bought the pride bracelet. You know, for the winter months when I'll be wearing a coat and no one will be able to see it.
Last edited by XxXApathy420XxX on October 31st, 2015, 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
My father didn’t have the skill of a professional cameraman. The result? Avant-garde cinema.

RateYourMusic | ICheckMovies | Letterboxd

User avatar
XxXApathy420XxX
Donator
Posts: 18858
Joined: Oct 24, 2011
Contact:

#288

Post by XxXApathy420XxX » October 31st, 2015, 9:25 am

Eddie Murphy kept that shit going.

My father didn’t have the skill of a professional cameraman. The result? Avant-garde cinema.

RateYourMusic | ICheckMovies | Letterboxd

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 6539
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#289

Post by xianjiro » October 31st, 2015, 9:53 pm

Ettinauer226XL on Oct 31 2015, 02:28:13 AM wrote:Forgot to mention it, I didn't chicken out today and I bought the pride bracelet. You know, for the winter months when I'll be wearing a coat and no one will be able to see it.
:D

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

Kasparius
Posts: 24609
Joined: Sep 14, 2011
Contact:

#290

Post by Kasparius » October 31st, 2015, 9:55 pm

Ettinauer226XL on Oct 31 2015, 03:25:42 AM wrote:Eddie Murphy kept that shit going.
And he was also caught fucking a trans, so obviously his hatred is self-hatred.
Last edited by Kasparius on October 31st, 2015, 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
XxXApathy420XxX
Donator
Posts: 18858
Joined: Oct 24, 2011
Contact:

#291

Post by XxXApathy420XxX » October 31st, 2015, 9:58 pm

It's definitely self-hatred. Trust me I was homophobic when I was 13-15 and it was obviously cause I was having feelings towards men and was in denial.
My father didn’t have the skill of a professional cameraman. The result? Avant-garde cinema.

RateYourMusic | ICheckMovies | Letterboxd

User avatar
XxXApathy420XxX
Donator
Posts: 18858
Joined: Oct 24, 2011
Contact:

#292

Post by XxXApathy420XxX » November 2nd, 2015, 10:26 pm

xianjiro on Oct 31 2015, 03:53:08 PM wrote:
Ettinauer226XL on Oct 31 2015, 02:28:13 AM wrote:Forgot to mention it, I didn't chicken out today and I bought the pride bracelet. You know, for the winter months when I'll be wearing a coat and no one will be able to see it.
:D
There's gonna be a few homophobes today at work. Fuck it I'll still wear it. Let's see what's gonna happen.
My father didn’t have the skill of a professional cameraman. The result? Avant-garde cinema.

RateYourMusic | ICheckMovies | Letterboxd

User avatar
Mario Gaborović
Posts: 3122
Joined: Apr 11, 2014
Location: Pančevo
Contact:

#293

Post by Mario Gaborović » June 8th, 2016, 12:33 am

mightysparks on Jun 20 2015, 02:37:22 PM wrote:I'm not really that interested in looking at male parts though. I don't really understand how anyone can be attracted to genitals, I find them all gross. I'm still obsessed with men though so :shrug:
:lol:

I find ass the least interesting part of a woman. It looks fine if there's one, but it doesn't sexually arouses me at all. Not one bit.

My favorite LGBT film is Du er ikke alene, otherwise I haven't seen a lot films of this subgenre.
Last edited by Mario Gaborović on June 8th, 2016, 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
albajos
Posts: 5927
Joined: May 24, 2016
Location: Norway
Contact:

#294

Post by albajos » June 8th, 2016, 10:14 am

Image

Finally got to see the documentary (a)sexual yesterday. To bad it have a bit too much on the AVEN founder's personal life, rather than then group as a whole, so it lose it's focus after a hour or so.

House MD (S08E09) also ruined the term, since he HAD to find a medical reason for someone being asexual. Had that happened to any other letter in the LGBT letter soup the TV series creators wouldn't heard the end of it.

So basically the only character we can trust is Sherlock Holmes from BBC's Sherlock. Cumberbatch doesn't only play him asexual, there are quotes in the series that confirm it. The last special The Abominable Bride in particular.

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 6539
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#295

Post by xianjiro » June 8th, 2016, 6:08 pm

So, I'm wondering how people are reacting to the BFI Flare list going official. Thoughts?

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
Gershwin
Donator
Posts: 7069
Joined: May 17, 2011
Location: Leiden, NL
Contact:

#296

Post by Gershwin » June 8th, 2016, 8:45 pm

Favorited 20 times, disliked 2 times, added to 38 watchlists, no comments. Looks like it's doing fine. If people hate it, they mostly will say so in the comments. Like they do with the fantasy list. :happy:
RokP 250

Profiles: Untappd - Last.fm - iCM

User avatar
Fergenaprido
Donator
Posts: 3177
Joined: Jun 03, 2014
Location: Malaysia
Contact:

#297

Post by Fergenaprido » June 9th, 2016, 5:32 am

xianjiro on Jun 8 2016, 12:08:25 PM wrote:So, I'm wondering how people are reacting to the BFI Flare list going official. Thoughts?
It's not my preferred queer list, but I'll accept it, and continue to work on it. 4 away from a bronze, I believe. I just hope that it won't be a static list, and will be updated every 5-10 years with a new poll.

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 6539
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#298

Post by xianjiro » June 9th, 2016, 10:34 am

Well, BFI did some sort of an update - if you follow the source link (at the bottom of the page) you end up with "The 30 Best LGBT Films of All Time" which actually has 27 titles plus the honorable mentions at the bottom of the page bring it to 57. Also, I think there has been some change in ranking unless our version of the list isn't ranked (in order but maybe grouped by number of votes or something. Our description doesn't specify.

I've searched both BFI and Google (though not for longer than five minutes) and been unable to find anything but this new top 30. So not sure what will happen.

Anything specific that you're concerned with? I know I'm somewhat skeptical that the most recent 'hit' is at the top of the list - seems like someone might be suffering from short-term memory issues. Not that I thought Carol was a bad movie or anything, but is it the best LGBT movie of all time? (Thus why I'm very loathe to make my own lists!)

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 6539
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#299

Post by xianjiro » June 15th, 2016, 1:04 am

So, post Orlando, and now that the conversation in The Political Lounge is focused on religion, thought I'd just check in - how's everyone doing? Feel free to talk if you're so inclined but mostly, be well.

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here


kingink
Posts: 2514
Joined: Jun 16, 2011
Contact:

#301

Post by kingink » June 15th, 2016, 9:39 am

xianjiro on Jun 14 2016, 07:04:43 PM wrote:So, post Orlando, and now that the conversation in The Political Lounge is focused on religion, thought I'd just check in - how's everyone doing? Feel free to talk if you're so inclined but mostly, be well.
What can you say about a situation like that?
I will just quote the wondeful Greek composer Manos Hatzidakis, who wrote a song named Kemal, about a young boy who wanted to change the world but ultimately failed to do so. At the end of the song Manos says "Goodnight Kemal, this world will never change"


User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 6539
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#302

Post by xianjiro » June 15th, 2016, 11:05 am

yeah, know what you mean. In some ways, it seems better to say little or nothing after acknowledging the pain.

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 22934
Joined: May 08, 2011
Contact:

#303

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » June 15th, 2016, 4:17 pm

xianjiro on Jun 9 2016, 04:34:44 AM wrote:Well, BFI did some sort of an update - if you follow the source link (at the bottom of the page) you end up with "The 30 Best LGBT Films of All Time" which actually has 27 titles plus the honorable mentions at the bottom of the page bring it to 57. Also, I think there has been some change in ranking unless our version of the list isn't ranked (in order but maybe grouped by number of votes or something. Our description doesn't specify.

I've searched both BFI and Google (though not for longer than five minutes) and been unable to find anything but this new top 30. So not sure what will happen.
The ICM list is rankedd. I added up all the lists to extend the list but I don't think there was anything wrong with their top 27 so they should coincide. It might just be ordering within the ties. I'll check it in a week when I have better internet access.

User avatar
3eyes
Donator
Posts: 6773
Joined: May 17, 2011
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

#304

Post by 3eyes » June 15th, 2016, 5:13 pm

xianjiro on Jun 15 2016, 05:05:06 AM wrote:yeah, know what you mean. In some ways, it seems better to say little or nothing after acknowledging the pain.
From an email by my F/friend George Lakey, writer and activist, about the candlelight vigil at City Hall:

Maybe you've seen, in movies or on the History Channel, scenes representing moments in the War for Independence or the Civil War when hundreds of soldiers, energy spent, sit in circles around the flickering light of campfires, warming themselves in the quiet companionship of comrades.

I hear the occasional strum of a guitar, resonant against the cement sidewalks and immense stone edifice that is Philadelphia's City Hall plaza. It's late, at least an hour after the high energy of occupying the street, and I walk quietly from one circle to another, mesmerized by the light of hundreds of candles planted on the ground, young adults staring at them, seeing the light reflected in each others' eyes, in each others' quiet tears. I hear laughter from some youths standing near me. It's time for the letting go, for letting God. Tomorrow will be another day, learning the names of additional casualties as one by one their names are released because, finally, their families are told that their unique and precious member was struck down.

I read the posters, still being written now at nine o'clock, and most of them are about love. The quote from Miranda's sonnet read at the Tony Awards: "Love is love is love is love is . . ."

Here's another: "Why do they find us so threatening?"

And another: "When being your authentic self is a revolutionary act -- be a revolutionary."

There are some voices still in shock asking, in a kind of pleading anger, "How long must this violence go on against us? Will this country never change?"

I see a very different reality. It's when we're making major progress that the worst of the push-back often comes. It's when the anti-nuclear movement was shaking the power structure that Karen Silkwood was run off the road and killed. It's when the struggle for California's old-growth forests achieved momentum that Judy Bari's car was wired with explosives. It's when the nation was finally riveted on the demand for civil rights that the police dogs and firehoses were brought out in Birmingham and the four little girls in their Sunday dresses were blown up in church. It's when the women at the White House gates were finally getting the President's attention for the right to vote that they were most viciously mobbed.

And it's when two men in Orlando felt safe enough to kiss in public that their freedom became the last straw for a badly broken man who enacted the push-back,
invading their club, representing the fear felt by millions who live in an economy that daily generates greater insecurity.

Yes, when we push, we get push-back, along with the change that required our pushing.... That's reality; that's How Things Are. And what gives us strength so we can we tolerate such a wonderful and fierce reality?

The hand-made posters tell us, propped up on the pavement beside City Hall, over and per again:
"Love is love is love is love is..."

At the Tony Awards Frank Langella put it this way: "When something bad happens, we have three choices: We let it define us, we let it destroy us, or we let it strengthen us."
:run: STILL the Gaffer!

kingink
Posts: 2514
Joined: Jun 16, 2011
Contact:

#305

Post by kingink » June 15th, 2016, 6:52 pm

3eyes on Jun 15 2016, 11:13:34 AM wrote: At the Tony Awards Frank Langella put it this way: "When something bad happens, we have three choices: We let it define us, we let it destroy us, or we let it strengthen us."
Nicely put 3eyes.

And that Langella quote as well is great as it puts the real struggle of many people on the table. It's easy to let something bad define you and change you. Let's just hope that it will strengthen a lot of people and not make them build an even more strong wall around them in their everyday lives.
Last edited by kingink on June 15th, 2016, 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
XxXApathy420XxX
Donator
Posts: 18858
Joined: Oct 24, 2011
Contact:

#306

Post by XxXApathy420XxX » June 16th, 2016, 6:16 pm

Just found out that Milo Yiannopoulos exists :wacko:

Image
Image
My father didn’t have the skill of a professional cameraman. The result? Avant-garde cinema.

RateYourMusic | ICheckMovies | Letterboxd

User avatar
Gershwin
Donator
Posts: 7069
Joined: May 17, 2011
Location: Leiden, NL
Contact:

#307

Post by Gershwin » June 20th, 2016, 3:26 pm

Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
RokP 250

Profiles: Untappd - Last.fm - iCM

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 6539
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#308

Post by xianjiro » June 20th, 2016, 7:30 pm

uh huh

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
XxXApathy420XxX
Donator
Posts: 18858
Joined: Oct 24, 2011
Contact:

#309

Post by XxXApathy420XxX » June 20th, 2016, 9:11 pm

And that's just the photos, if only you knew the shit he would say. Huge Trump supporter, is one of the major contributers of gamergate, says that places that don't have a Christian heritage are fucked up places with bad morals, and that our sense of right and wrong comes from the bible.

Normally this would just be like "lol typical conservative nutjob" but the fact that he's gay makes this so strange. He says that he WENT gay so he wouldn't have to deal with nutty broads, and another tweet saying that he was born Republican but that being gay is a choice. But later on he said that he had the ability to choose, he would be straight. Fucking keep it consistent man.
Last edited by XxXApathy420XxX on June 20th, 2016, 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My father didn’t have the skill of a professional cameraman. The result? Avant-garde cinema.

RateYourMusic | ICheckMovies | Letterboxd

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 6539
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#310

Post by xianjiro » June 21st, 2016, 12:41 am

agent provocateur if you ask me

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
Carmel1379
Donator
Posts: 4380
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
Location: ∅ ⋁ ⋀ ∞ | myself am Hell
Contact:

#311

Post by Carmel1379 » July 16th, 2016, 1:09 am

aus
Last edited by Carmel1379 on December 21st, 2017, 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
IMDb, letterboxd, tumblr
Image
whom shall we find
Sufficient? who shall tempt with wand’ring feet
The dark unbottom’d infinite Abyss,
And through the palpable obscure find out
His uncouth way, or spread his aerie flight,
Upborn with indefatigable wings,
Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive
The happy Ile?

Nur dein Auge – ungeheuer / Blickt michs an, Unendlichkeit!
Close the world. ʇxǝu ǝɥʇ uǝdO.
t o B e c o n t i n u e d

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 6539
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#312

Post by xianjiro » July 31st, 2016, 3:14 am

So, something's been bothering me the last few days. On Wednesday night I went to a monthly dinner held in a local church community room. While it's not exclusively for gay men, that's basically what has happened - mostly gay men attend. It's usually hosted by an employee of a religious service organization and assisted by an Americorps volunteer though the last couple of months the volunteer has taken care of ordering food and such as the staffer left her position. Wednesday was the volunteer's last night - we never make a big deal on the volunteer's last night other than to ask him or her what's next, thank them, etc.

So anyways, we're cleaning up and this older guy - the oldest of the group, but he's only in his mid-60s - comes up to me and says "the next volunteer's a real male." Yes, the volunteer that left this last week is a transman (for clarity F2M): he clearly identifies as male, loves to play rugby, and is totally comfortable with the camp talk. Well, the older guy, harmless but he has a habit of constantly repeating the same thing over and over and over - like, they made a movie about the crime syndicate in Portland in the 50s - so usually we just smile and try to move the conversation on. But he keeps going on about the 'real male.' I finally say something like it didn't matter to me and if he has to say anything maybe he could use the word 'cismale'. Of course this is about the time that the volunteer walks back in the room. I'm not sure how much of the conversation he overheard, but he's in time for one more 'real male' and the older guy saying he's old and its hard to change.

Best I can tell, we all parted happily enough but I wanted to say something else to the volunteer and just wasn't able to find the words. (He's gone now, so that ship has left the port.) I wanted to say I was sorry, but for what? For his hurt, but then I'm assuming that's how he felt. For the old guy's words? Well, I did stand up and offered a different way of viewing and speaking about the topic. And besides, how could I say anything without either assuming I know what the transman feels or coming off like its really all about me?

UGH!

Now, for a sidetrack. I read this article about a guy witnessing a situation between Boston black kids and the cops and while I applaud the guy for standing up to the cop and sharing a moment with the 'other' kid, I do have mixed feelings about how he comes off at the end of the piece.

I think back to when the volunteer first arrived. If no one - probably same old dude - had told me he was trans I would never have given it a second thought. But clearly that's quite different than the kids on the MBTA - there is no doubt they are black and behaving like a helluvalotta of kids behave.

It's pretty clear that it's all about one's perception of the other that creates the problems.

But I can't change how others behave - I can only control my own behavior. If a person with a full beard and hairy chest is in an evening dress and says her name is Cynthia, who am I to question? But I bet this would make lots of people uncomfortable and they would fret "do I say he or she?" If a black guy is walking down the sidewalk towards me, I continue walking and say hello like I do with most everyone in my neighborhood. So why should I feel the need to apologize when another person calls Cynthia 'he' or another person crosses the street before encountering the black guy? Liberal white guilt? And why is it so difficult for one group to extrapolate out the difficulty they have faced (gay for trans, African American for LBGTQ+) and behave empathetically and respectfully towards others?

It's less that I need specific advice. Long ago I decided to stand up to -ist and -phobic comments when it's not likely to start a riot. But I would like to know what kind of situations readers have found themselves in (on any side of an -ist and -phobic situation) and how they've acted. If there's a better way, would certainly love to hear it.

:)

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 6539
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#313

Post by xianjiro » August 31st, 2016, 9:18 pm


Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

User avatar
mightysparks
Site Admin
Posts: 29428
Joined: May 05, 2011
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

#314

Post by mightysparks » August 31st, 2016, 9:29 pm

I haven't experienced much negativity with the trans community myself. When I was very young, two of my mum's closest friends were transgender women and it's never been something that crosses my mind as being weird. Also I dress in men's clothes/unisex though I don't want to be seen as a guy. Anyway I had some recent experiences:

A girl in my class last year became a boy this year. I heard from a friend of mine not from him and when I saw him next I kind of felt unsure what to do. Like even though he's dressing as a boy and has short hair, he still looks like 'her' and I felt strange suddenly calling him a new name and calling him a him. Apparently some others felt similarly and it got back to him so he made a post to us on FB introducing himself as transgender and his new name and I felt more comfortable about it. But I heard from a friend that he was apparently annoyed that he had to do that and he wanted it to just be passed along the grapevine. I understand the sentiment but I feel like you can't just expect people to switch that easily when you've known someone as someone else (especially when they don't look or sound any different). I'm more used to it now but I sometimes mess up when talking to other people and say she/her.

Also i did a vox pop with someone at FrightFest and I wasn't actually sure whether it was a man or a woman. They looked like a man but wore a dress and dressed femininely. When I finished the vox pop they said 'just in case, I'm a woman. I'm not sure how you're going to frame it but if you could use female pronouns'. I was taken aback at first coz it seemed a strange thing to have to say, but obviously I have no problem with it and told them no worries.
"I do not always know what I want, but I do know what I don't want." - Stanley Kubrick

iCM | IMDb | LastFM | TSZDT

Image

User avatar
3eyes
Donator
Posts: 6773
Joined: May 17, 2011
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

#315

Post by 3eyes » September 24th, 2016, 2:40 pm

Coming out of left field as usual but I was just thinking about something that may shed light on the nature of my empathy with LGBTQ etcs:

Having an autistic/Aspie daughter taught me a lot about myself, and explained some painful incidents from my youth - lots of incidents where I knew I wasn't reacting the way I was expected to but didn't understand what was expected and couldn't have pretended to feel something I didn't if I'd wanted to. (I've gotten a little better at it since but not much.) Sound familiar?
:run: STILL the Gaffer!

User avatar
XxXApathy420XxX
Donator
Posts: 18858
Joined: Oct 24, 2011
Contact:

#316

Post by XxXApathy420XxX » September 25th, 2016, 9:19 pm

Holy fuck if this is real... seriously looks like something from a low-brow comedy



Ok it looks like this real, oh god :lol:

Last edited by XxXApathy420XxX on September 25th, 2016, 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My father didn’t have the skill of a professional cameraman. The result? Avant-garde cinema.

RateYourMusic | ICheckMovies | Letterboxd

Bobby Peru
Posts: 528
Joined: May 08, 2011
Location: Southampton, England
Contact:

#317

Post by Bobby Peru » September 25th, 2016, 11:17 pm

I'm going to bet there are some gay people sitting right in front of him.

Bobby Peru
Posts: 528
Joined: May 08, 2011
Location: Southampton, England
Contact:

#318

Post by Bobby Peru » September 25th, 2016, 11:23 pm

I just realised it's the guy they banned from entering the UK earlier this week. :poshclap:

User avatar
albajos
Posts: 5927
Joined: May 24, 2016
Location: Norway
Contact:

#319

Post by albajos » September 26th, 2016, 6:12 am

Anyway. Most of his videos on youtube only have 10 views. Let's keep it that way.
Last edited by albajos on September 26th, 2016, 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 6539
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#320

Post by xianjiro » September 26th, 2016, 7:52 am

3eyes on Sep 24 2016, 08:40:40 AM wrote:Coming out of left field as usual but I was just thinking about something that may shed light on the nature of my empathy with LGBTQ etcs:

Having an autistic/Aspie daughter taught me a lot about myself, and explained some painful incidents from my youth - lots of incidents where I knew I wasn't reacting the way I was expected to but didn't understand what was expected and couldn't have pretended to feel something I didn't if I'd wanted to. (I've gotten a little better at it since but not much.) Sound familiar?
isn't there some aphorism like "normal is as normal does?"

I now have a penpal who has Aspergers so I'm learning about this and what's funny about it all is even though the end result for the two of us is much the same, I quite clearly don't have Aspergers. It leaves me scratching my head. I know my mind works differently - I see colors differently, logic works differently, those are the biggest things - but I've never been able to figure out if it was because of how I was raised or genetics, and how being gay fits in the whole mishmash, not to mention living in various cultures.

But yes, being 'different' often does help people in understanding the differences of others. And if one can learn to be less judgemental, all the better.

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

Post Reply