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The Political Lounge

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Cippenham
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Re: The Political Lounge

#6521

Post by Cippenham » October 7th, 2019, 2:16 pm

Forget it

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St. Gloede
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#6522

Post by St. Gloede » October 7th, 2019, 4:23 pm

You will, that is the problem.

You consistently spout the idea that capitalism is leftism - and that hard right private companies, working to give their private owners profits, are Marxist/Leftist.

You, the person who actively oppose free-market capitalism, poses yourself as right-wing.

Despite being a nationist, and wanting major state action, "Liberals" are on the left, according to you, for wanting "some state action".

You will do and say this again.

And again.

And again.

And you will continue to be deceitful every time you are called out.

Tomorrow.

Or next week.

You will say the same thing again.

Someone will call you out.

And you will ignore/deflect.

Again.

And again.

In a dishonest, deceitful circle.

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St. Gloede
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#6523

Post by St. Gloede » October 7th, 2019, 5:20 pm

Cippenham wrote:
October 6th, 2019, 3:35 pm
St G says what I didn’t say, I think we are not speaking the same language. In Britain the liberal left globalist elite adopted a stance to allow unlimited drugs , immigration and to abolish family support, downgrade education, indoctrinate children to believe we are all going to die in global warming catastrophe they invented, to believe you can be any sex you choose or none, and to believe we are better off with state controlled monopolies and state control and a thought police. And to believe it’s ok to live on benefits for years. It’s about preparing the way for a full Marxist dictatorship. Education education education as the Trotskyite Blair called it who knew he could not yet impose it in the economy but culturally. Many of those educated or indoctrinated have now taken leading roles in private business and corporate companies and spread their poisonous ideas there. But I believe in traditional values, immigration control, massively clampdown on drugs with severe measures, support for families and putting above all the people first. Ordinary people have never been consulted but have had the values they don’t believe in imposed on them by a liberal elite who hate them and treat them with contempt. I am sure this is echoed in many countries and explains the rise of the new nationalist movement, including Trump. There is a big movement to bring Trump down but he may survive and serve another term.
Cippenham wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 11:22 am
Liberal parties are on the left but not marxist but want some state action or moderate socialism.
Hmmmm ...



------


As for your bizarre list:

Allow unlimited drugs = 100% consistent with right wing ideology/capitalism, free trade

Allow unlimited immigration = 100% consistent with right wing ideology/capitalism - cheap labour, free trade, etc.

Abolish family support = Abolishing benefits? 100% consistent with right wing ideology/capitalism

Downgrade education = Abolishing benefits? 100% consistent with right wing ideology/capitalism

Indoctrinate children to believe we are all going to die in global warming catastrophe they invented = = 100% consistent with right wing ideology/capitalism (and you are the brainwashed one)

To believe you can be any sex you choose or none = 100% consistent with right wing ideology/capitalism (and it is gender, not sex, the former is cultural, the latter is biological, by definition)

To believe we are better off with state controlled monopolies = Ok, so after a long list of perfectly right wing ideas we finally get to something an extreme right winger would not be a fan of - what state monopolies do the Liberal Democrats support?

To believe we are better off with a thought police = That's just authoritarianism, not a left/right issue

Believe it’s ok to live on benefits for years = Welfare/benefits is compatible with capitalism, but at least this is not an extreme right position

What you yourself state you believe in:

Traditional values - Imposing cultural norms on others? It is compatible with capitalism, but amounts to thought police and authoritarianism

Immigration control = Anti-capitalist, opposes free trade and the right of private companies to get the cheapest price

Massively clampdown on drugs with severe measures - Anti-capitalist, anti-free trade, authoritarian

Support for families - BENEFITS!!! Wouldn't this mean people being on benefits for years? And you are ok with that?! You just said liberals were doing this to prepare people for Marxist dictatorship.

Putting above all the people first - Democratic Socialism? You believe in putting the collective above capitalism?

Conclusion
As stated earlier, you are opposing right wing ideas and calling them left-wing.

At the same time you spouting many left leaning ideas, calling them right-wing.

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#6524

Post by Pretentious Hipster » October 8th, 2019, 2:49 am

Jesus the canadian debate is so hard to watch. Mostly due to the fact that the far right Bernier is interupting people every chance he gets. All the comments seem to be supporting him too.

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#6525

Post by Pretentious Hipster » October 8th, 2019, 3:05 am

Of course Bernier says the v-word venezuela without expanding. Even ignoring the fact that american intervention is fucking up venezuela, you can simply reply with bolivia. A socialist country that is having the largest economic growth in the region. So basically it's only a matter of time before america steps in to fuck them up.


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#6527

Post by OldAle1 » October 10th, 2019, 12:23 am

XxXApathy420XxX wrote:
October 8th, 2019, 2:49 am
Jesus the canadian debate is so hard to watch. Mostly due to the fact that the far right Bernier is interupting people every chance he gets. All the comments seem to be supporting him too.
If I weren't in the situation I'm in now, I'd be curious to watch this. There was a period - roughly 2003-6 - where I was seriously considering moving to Montreal, and for a little while I tried to pay more attention to Canadian politics. And when you had Rob Ford, it was pretty entertaining (for those of us not living under him) - just as our current Pres is "entertaining" in some ways. If you don't care about the fate of the world...

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#6528

Post by Pretentious Hipster » October 10th, 2019, 12:27 am

OldAle1 wrote:
October 10th, 2019, 12:23 am
XxXApathy420XxX wrote:
October 8th, 2019, 2:49 am
Jesus the canadian debate is so hard to watch. Mostly due to the fact that the far right Bernier is interupting people every chance he gets. All the comments seem to be supporting him too.
If I weren't in the situation I'm in now, I'd be curious to watch this. There was a period - roughly 2003-6 - where I was seriously considering moving to Montreal, and for a little while I tried to pay more attention to Canadian politics. And when you had Rob Ford, it was pretty entertaining (for those of us not living under him) - just as our current Pres is "entertaining" in some ways. If you don't care about the fate of the world...
Thankfully I'm not living where Rob Ford was, but I am living where his brother Doug Ford is having power. I honestly can understand how shitty it is to be under Trump because I now see first-hand just how much damage an idiotic politician can do.

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#6529

Post by OldAle1 » October 10th, 2019, 12:35 am

Everyone in the world is affected by Drumpf of course, but we Americans are certainly affected by what goes on in Canada, or to a lesser extent Ontario in Quebec, and in Mexico, even if most of us are too stupid/benighted/ignorant to understand the connections. So having assholes in your government is certainly concerning to me, hell I may want to travel through again before long (if I remember to renew my passport soon).

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#6530

Post by Pretentious Hipster » October 10th, 2019, 1:46 am

https://ca.ign.com/articles/2019/10/09/ ... ontroversy

Video games are becoming so political that even Marco Rubio stepped in.

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#6531

Post by St. Gloede » October 10th, 2019, 1:08 pm

The situation in Rojava is horrifying. I don't understand (well, of course I do ...) how Turkey can possibly be allowed to simply invade without anyone stopping them/stepping up. A disgrace. Every country in the world should be deeply fucking ashamed. Any blood is on their hands as well. This is a NATO country ... and an ally of essentially every Western country.

(though, of course, the west doesn't care what Israel or Saudi Arabia does either ...)

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#6532

Post by Pretentious Hipster » October 10th, 2019, 1:26 pm

Yep. Israel bombed a few countries recently and it didn't make the news. Saudi Arabia is destroying Yemen (Trudeau contributed to this too) as well. This Syria thing is just depressing. On top of it being a genocide it's gonna turn Syria into a huge fucking mess once again. Some even forgot that the war there is still going on. What's gonna happen after the genocide? Will Turkey just take over that part of Syria? Or just leave it in ruins for ISIS to take over again.

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#6533

Post by tirefeet » October 10th, 2019, 1:31 pm

Turkey should have been for Syria's integrity with Assad remaining head since this clusterfrak began. This would have prevented the laying of foundations of a utopian neverland that Turkey compels itself to intervene in.
Last edited by tirefeet on October 10th, 2019, 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#6534

Post by tirefeet » October 10th, 2019, 1:34 pm

XxXApathy420XxX wrote:
October 10th, 2019, 1:26 pm
Will Turkey just take over that part of Syria?
The intention is setting up a "safety" zone to settle Syrian refugeees which goes 30 km's into Syrian land from east of Euphrates. Of course it's not a sound idea, but this is the intention, not a takeover.

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#6535

Post by Knaldskalle » October 10th, 2019, 2:58 pm

Brilliant. Next up, US invades Mexico to set up a "migrant buffer zone" to settle migrants coming in from Latin America.
ImageImageImageImage

Please don't hurt yourself, talk to someone.

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#6536

Post by Cippenham » October 10th, 2019, 3:43 pm

Knaldskalle wrote:
October 10th, 2019, 2:58 pm
Brilliant. Next up, US invades Mexico to set up a "migrant buffer zone" to settle migrants coming in from Latin America.
nah, they can just Build a Wall😀

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#6537

Post by Cippenham » October 10th, 2019, 3:44 pm

Are the Canadian Greens really moderately authoritarian conservatives? They would be a lot different to ours

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#6538

Post by tirefeet » October 10th, 2019, 4:02 pm

In his great and unmatched wisdom, RTE envisions an area that is not a mere buffer zone but a place where Syrians can build homes and cultivate lands to sustain themselves.

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#6539

Post by Pretentious Hipster » October 10th, 2019, 4:06 pm

Cippenham wrote:
October 10th, 2019, 3:44 pm
Are the Canadian Greens really moderately authoritarian conservatives? They would be a lot different to ours
I'd say it's more of a centre party. They seem to be letting people from many positions on the political spectrum represent them as long as the environment is their highest priority. They even have some pro-life people in their party. The leader said that the whole right-wing/left-wing thing doesn't matter to them. They are doing surprisingly well this year mostly due to the fact that people want the climate crisis to end. They almost have 10% of the vote.

Liberals and conservatives went downhill after the debate because they just kept bickering and dissing each other like school children. I think the far right guy did the worst though. Not because of his views, but because he kept interrupting everyone. Bloc Quebecois did surprisingly well, although they care too much about the one province. The major party at the furthest left, the NDP,, won. Again not because of their policies (although I agreed with them the most), but because he was the simply the best debater there.

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#6540

Post by Pretentious Hipster » October 10th, 2019, 4:10 pm

Since my vote doesn't matter I was thinking about voting for the communist party simply because they have the best election platform. However, NDP did such a good job that I'm considering changing my mind. You can vote this weekend earlier if you want to. I initially was going to but I think I need some time to think about it.

Here are some highlights if you're curious.


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#6541

Post by St. Gloede » October 10th, 2019, 4:35 pm

tirefeet wrote:
October 10th, 2019, 1:34 pm
XxXApathy420XxX wrote:
October 10th, 2019, 1:26 pm
Will Turkey just take over that part of Syria?
The intention is setting up a "safety" zone to settle Syrian refugeees which goes 30 km's into Syrian land from east of Euphrates. Of course it's not a sound idea, but this is the intention, not a takeover.
They are invading a democratic country/autonimous region, and forcing them to become a large scale refugee camp. Clearly the people of Rojava has no say of the decision, and surely democracy cannot just be given back to them - so how is it not a takeover?

(I suppose they could allow the Syrians to vote, or wait until there were more Syrians than Kurds, i.e. literally importing millions of Syrian refugees ...).

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#6542

Post by tirefeet » October 10th, 2019, 5:14 pm

St. Gloede wrote:
October 10th, 2019, 4:35 pm
They are invading a democratic country / de facto (important distinction in this context) autonimous region, and forcing them to become a large scale refugee camp. Clearly the people of Rojava has no say of the decision, and surely democracy cannot just be given back to them - so how is it not a takeover?
The current situation in Northern Syria mainly stems from inappropriate maneuvers of the ineptitude of people that were in charge of Turkish diplomacy when Syrian Civil War commenced. They supported Sunni factions (not ISIS) against the regime, which backfired when Obama concluded that Assad remaining in power does not interfere with American interests. Meanwhile a sub-group of PKK (designated as terrorist organisation by EU & USA) made important gains in Northern Syria and gradually shaped Rojava (Western Kurdistan) while benefiting from demographic changes due to civil war which can be tracked here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rojava#/m ... y_2014.png, use arrows to browse 2015 and 2016). Turkish policy-making learnt the hard way of the unintended consequences of pushing too hard to enforce your will and now facing -partially deserved- huge international backlash.

Moral of the story: have a backbone (which is hard to come by in the scheme of international politics)

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#6543

Post by Cippenham » October 10th, 2019, 6:03 pm

XxXApathy420XxX wrote:
October 10th, 2019, 4:06 pm
Cippenham wrote:
October 10th, 2019, 3:44 pm
Are the Canadian Greens really moderately authoritarian conservatives? They would be a lot different to ours
I'd say it's more of a centre party. They seem to be letting people from many positions on the political spectrum represent them as long as the environment is their highest priority. They even have some pro-life people in their party. The leader said that the whole right-wing/left-wing thing doesn't matter to them. They are doing surprisingly well this year mostly due to the fact that people want the climate crisis to end. They almost have 10% of the vote.

Liberals and conservatives went downhill after the debate because they just kept bickering and dissing each other like school children. I think the far right guy did the worst though. Not because of his views, but because he kept interrupting everyone. Bloc Quebecois did surprisingly well, although they care too much about the one province. The major party at the furthest left, the NDP,, won. Again not because of their policies (although I agreed with them the most), but because he was the simply the best debater there.
Wow even I could be Green on that basis. Maybe. :think:

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#6544

Post by St. Gloede » October 10th, 2019, 6:23 pm

tirefeet wrote:
October 10th, 2019, 5:14 pm
St. Gloede wrote:
October 10th, 2019, 4:35 pm
They are invading a democratic country / de facto (important distinction in this context) autonimous region, and forcing them to become a large scale refugee camp. Clearly the people of Rojava has no say of the decision, and surely democracy cannot just be given back to them - so how is it not a takeover?
The current situation in Northern Syria mainly stems from inappropriate maneuvers of the ineptitude of people that were in charge of Turkish diplomacy when Syrian Civil War commenced. They supported Sunni factions (not ISIS) against the regime, which backfired when Obama concluded that Assad remaining in power does not interfere with American interests. Meanwhile a sub-group of PKK (designated as terrorist organisation by EU & USA) made important gains in Northern Syria and gradually shaped Rojava (Western Kurdistan) while benefiting from demographic changes due to civil war which can be tracked here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rojava#/m ... y_2014.png, use arrows to browse 2015 and 2016). Turkish policy-making learnt the hard way of the unintended consequences of pushing too hard to enforce your will and now facing -partially deserved- huge international backlash.

Moral of the story: have a backbone (which is hard to come by in the scheme of international politics)
No! Not an important distinction at all!

-

The Kurds/PKK/YPG does not have a backbone? How hard do these people have to fight to establish their own nation?

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#6545

Post by Cippenham » October 10th, 2019, 6:54 pm

UN going bankrupt, good. They do a lot of harm around the world.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 65906.html

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#6546

Post by St. Gloede » October 10th, 2019, 6:56 pm



NATO's General Secretary, and my previous Prime Minister everyone.

Seems Kurdish lives are of no importance as long as murdering these brave heroes (who fought and destroyed ISIS) does not lead to ISIS rising again.

Beyond disgusting.

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#6547

Post by St. Gloede » October 10th, 2019, 7:09 pm

At least Finland is taking a strong verbal stance ... and stops exporting weapons to Turkey from now on.

Norway will no longer export weapons to Turkey either (surprising from our America friendly right-wing government).

Voices from across the world are ... erm ... not positive about the invasion: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/worl ... n-n1064591

Not that it will help save one Kurdish life or protect Rojava.

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#6548

Post by Kublai Khan » October 10th, 2019, 8:35 pm

Cippenham wrote:
October 10th, 2019, 6:54 pm
UN going bankrupt, good. They do a lot of harm around the world.
Too true. Look at all the harm they do: https://www.un.org/un70/en/content/70ways/index.html

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#6549

Post by Cippenham » October 11th, 2019, 3:51 pm

Do you want a list of the harm ok
It’s the Mecca of globalism a pernicious outlook
Promoting the crazy extinction outlook prompted by the Patron Saint a 16 year old brainwashed girl
It’s a fossil a hangover from the Cold War battle between capitalism communism and war period fascism
A vessel of imposing radical leftist feminism lgbt politics and environmentalism and refine immigration as a human right to abolish borders
It is pushing Chinese style internet censorship
Imposing leftist norms
Serving interests of George Soros

So hope they go bankrupt

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#6550

Post by Kublai Khan » October 11th, 2019, 9:53 pm

So.. It does harm because it disagrees with you.

Ok.

Let's start at the top. Convince me. What is globalism and why is it terrible?

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#6551

Post by Ally Theater » October 11th, 2019, 11:08 pm

Interesting article about the politics of Joker

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/neoli ... -of-joker/

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#6552

Post by Cippenham » October 12th, 2019, 7:20 am

Globalism is about being a citizen of nowhere , therefore you do not believe in borders, if you are in the elite this suits you as you want to destroy individual countries culture and traditions and make everywhere in the world the same. It keeps wages low for many people because free movement of people, goods and services does that. This therefore suits many large companies. But it rides roughshod over people in individual countries who have their own way of life.
They don’t believe in democracy and literally believe it does not matter who is President in the US for example but Trump is a threat to their outlook in some ways. The following article is long but it really makes you think what is globalism and why it is bad and anti democratic. It argues it is not so much against borders or the state but against democracy. Politicians can absolve themselves of responsibility for actions that go wrong because they are only following the rules. In the globalist world, politics is not important so individuals have no right or ability to change anything so political action has no effect.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/03/1 ... in-chains/

This is also interesting, defining it as a failed liberal authoritarian desire for one world view protecting values and encouraging productivity

https://www.conservapedia.com/Globalism

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#6553

Post by St. Gloede » October 12th, 2019, 5:07 pm

There's Cipp pushing his anti-capitalist agenda again.

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#6554

Post by Kublai Khan » October 12th, 2019, 5:28 pm

Cippenham wrote:
October 12th, 2019, 7:20 am
Globalism is about being a citizen of nowhere , therefore you do not believe in borders, if you are in the elite this suits you as you want to destroy individual countries culture and traditions and make everywhere in the world the same. It keeps wages low for many people because free movement of people, goods and services does that. This therefore suits many large companies. But it rides roughshod over people in individual countries who have their own way of life.
See.. you say stuff like this is the product of globalism, but right now if I try to think of a situation where individual culture and traditions being crushed and low wages being common, I think of ultra-nationalistic China and how it treats Hong Kong and Taiwan. Or how ultra-right wing Turkey is massacring their Kurdish population. Literally the thing that stops people from fighting the injustice is the borders of those countries.
They don’t believe in democracy and literally believe it does not matter who is President in the US for example but Trump is a threat to their outlook in some ways. The following article is long but it really makes you think what is globalism and why it is bad and anti democratic. It argues it is not so much against borders or the state but against democracy. Politicians can absolve themselves of responsibility for actions that go wrong because they are only following the rules. In the globalist world, politics is not important so individuals have no right or ability to change anything so political action has no effect.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/03/1 ... in-chains/
None of that makes sense to me, but I'll read the article later tonight.
This is also interesting, defining it as a failed liberal authoritarian desire for one world view protecting values and encouraging productivity

https://www.conservapedia.com/Globalism
Ha. Thanks, but I won't be reading conservapedia. Their articles are not a good source of knowledge or sanity.

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#6555

Post by Cippenham » October 12th, 2019, 6:59 pm

What we have done in Britain is have a big increase in minimum wage and can now afford public spending increases as we have managed the economy well and produced many new jobs and absorbed many immigrants. But according to Corbyn they are zero hour contracts but that is wrong only a tiny number are. He wants to wreck and ruin the economy, as if we in Victorian times. The best of capitalism we have done and so many people want to come, we should be open to more skilled immigrants and less unskilled so wages can rise for more people on lower wages. We have cut tax so you don’t pay tax on very low income at all. We can spend millions more on NHS, the police and many other things as a result.
Cutting taxes also have boosted the economy.

China is communist in politics, not now in economic terms more than nationalist.

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#6556

Post by St. Gloede » October 12th, 2019, 7:32 pm

Why would Corbyn want to destroy the economy?

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#6557

Post by Cippenham » October 13th, 2019, 4:12 am

He would spend a trillion pounds on public spending we have not got, bankrupting the government. The pound would collapse completely as investors have no confidence. It has gone down due to uncertainty of Brexit, but it would collapse. He would have mass nationalisation leading to ruin of those business as government is terrible at ruining anything. He would have large tax increases and destroy private education so wealthy people would go abroad and businesses would close or move abroad. Revenue would go down not up at the same time the government is spending an extra trillion. We have no sovereign wealth fund like in Norway.

I don’t think he is likely to win however

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#6558

Post by St. Gloede » October 13th, 2019, 7:11 am

That was not the question.

The question was:

Why would Corbyn want to destroy the economy?

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#6559

Post by Cippenham » October 13th, 2019, 8:13 am

St. Gloede wrote:
October 13th, 2019, 7:11 am
That was not the question.

The question was:

Why would Corbyn want to destroy the economy?
It’s not what he wants that matters, it’s the effect of what he would do.

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#6560

Post by St. Gloede » October 13th, 2019, 8:34 am

Aha, so you misspoke.

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