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The Political Lounge

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bal3x
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Re: The Political Lounge

#5801

Post by bal3x » March 7th, 2019, 12:26 pm

RBG wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 3:00 am
In the first 18 mos of Trump's presidency, the US carried out 176 strikes in Yemen, compared to 154 during Obama's entire 8 yrs in office.
Yemen is a tragedy that seems to fly completely under the radar yet there are atrocities committed by the Western ally (and actively supported by arms and intel) and totally ignored by the international community. Yet they seem to be very concerned about Venezuela which cannot be even compared in terms of suffering of the people.

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#5802

Post by xianjiro » March 7th, 2019, 4:28 pm

bal3x wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 12:19 pm
xianjiro wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 2:56 am
bal3x wrote:
March 6th, 2019, 11:59 pm

You know the saying - all animals are equal, but some are more equal than the others...
thought about this conversation when I saw this today - please excuse if you've already seen it (and I know this was mentioned in USPolitics) Trump: Civilians killed in intelligence ops to go unreported

Not sure I buy the 'action eliminates “superfluous” reporting requirements that don’t “improve government transparency, but rather distract our intelligence professionals from their primary mission.” ' argument. I will accept that they don't want it known. Pretty disgusting move, but this believe there were similar moves under at least one previous Republican't administration, so it's exactly 'unpresidented'.
This is indeed sickening, why are the people not revolting? Most are not informed or just don't give a damn. glued to their FB. super bowl and Netflix...
well, religion isn't the ONLY opiate of the masses, yes, people are glued to their screens and muscle cars/trucks hold their attention, so apathy plays a part, but there is also a feeling of "what can I do about it?" Where does this fit in with all the other poor decisions made by this administration? But, probably the most important question is, will voters remember stuff like this in November 2020.

Sanctions would be interesting though...

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#5803

Post by RBG » March 7th, 2019, 4:45 pm

bal3x wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 12:26 pm
RBG wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 3:00 am
In the first 18 mos of Trump's presidency, the US carried out 176 strikes in Yemen, compared to 154 during Obama's entire 8 yrs in office.
Yemen is a tragedy that seems to fly completely under the radar yet there are atrocities committed by the Western ally (and actively supported by arms and intel) and totally ignored by the international community. Yet they seem to be very concerned about Venezuela which cannot be even compared in terms of suffering of the people.
and i'm guessing yemen doesn't have huge oil reserves :/
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#5804

Post by bal3x » March 7th, 2019, 6:15 pm

RBG wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 4:45 pm
bal3x wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 12:26 pm
RBG wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 3:00 am
In the first 18 mos of Trump's presidency, the US carried out 176 strikes in Yemen, compared to 154 during Obama's entire 8 yrs in office.
Yemen is a tragedy that seems to fly completely under the radar yet there are atrocities committed by the Western ally (and actively supported by arms and intel) and totally ignored by the international community. Yet they seem to be very concerned about Venezuela which cannot be even compared in terms of suffering of the people.
and i'm guessing yemen doesn't have huge oil reserves :/
Actually they do have oil, but I guess not enough to be of much interest and reserves are running out... they also have some gas reserves.
Income from oil production constitutes 70 to 75 percent of government revenue and about 90 percent of exports
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_o ... il_and_gas

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#5805

Post by Cippenham » March 7th, 2019, 6:41 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47488267

Does anyone else want to ban fake news and disrespect of government?

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#5806

Post by RBG » March 7th, 2019, 11:54 pm

i agree we should ban faux news :folded:

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#5807

Post by Cippenham » March 8th, 2019, 8:25 am

The first all female spacewalk will take place on March 29- Theresa May and Angela Merkel as no Brexit deal can be agreed? 😊

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#5808

Post by PirateJenny » March 14th, 2019, 6:39 pm

Slightly OT and I don't know why Soviet era Romanian politics caught my attention, but I decided to watch a BBC documentary about Ceausescu on youtube last night.

There was one part where they decided they were going to export all of their farming produce to try to pay off their debt and had a display of fruit and veg made up for Ceausescu to inspect made out of wood and plastic painted to look like fresh produce while the supermarkets were empty. Very North Korea-esque. I can half imagine something like that in Britain as to how we'd survive post-Brexit.

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#5809

Post by RBG » March 15th, 2019, 3:06 am

there's been a neo-nazi terror attack in new zealand. the shooter was reportedly a poster on 8chan and even livestreamed the attack on facebook. multiple fatalities
The alleged suspect appears to have uploaded many virulently anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant posts on social media
what is even happening anymore. don't watch the video and report it if you see it; it's everywhere right now. his 'manifesto' indicates radicalization by alt-right youtube personalities. i feel like we're exporting hate to the world now :'(
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#5810

Post by xianjiro » March 15th, 2019, 8:48 am

While I too am horrified by what I'm hearing out of Christchurch, "exporting hate" seems a bit overstated though I'll admit to not knowing which "alt-right youtube personalities" have been followed. We have to remember that the Internet isn't just one country or group within a country and much like this forum, people come from many places and share their ideas for better or worse. The difficulty is, ideas which would have a much more difficult time gaining traction locally - if one were to stand on the street corner espousing them - can find admirers when broadcast internationally. Additionally, it's clear that not everyone who 'supports' an idea actually believes it: it's just easy and 'fun' to say, "yeah, right on" and "go for it" in the faceless, nameless echo-chamber of cyberspace.

There is a lot of ugliness in the world: certain websites and platforms only seem to make it easier for those ideas to find adherents.

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#5811

Post by matthewscott8 » March 15th, 2019, 9:40 am

People have been murdering religious and ethnic minorities in every corner of the globe for time immemorial. This is very sad but nothing new. Every human needs a lot of time and effort put into socialising them. Many people never get properly socialised. The internet doesn't really make this stuff more likely, mostly if you go on the internet with crazy views people will tell you that you're crazy.

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#5812

Post by RBG » March 15th, 2019, 9:43 am

49 killed and at least 50 injured, three people are in custody --

we invented facebook and youtube and the chans which seems to make stuff like this happen more often :( extremism growing everywhere i guess

and our president just encouraging it. so ugly. people cheered this on online while it was happening.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/new-zeal ... 7da9f17320
He also repeatedly stated that he intended to use the media to give a platform to his views.

In the rambling manifesto, he claimed that he donated to white supremacist groups and said he idolized American mass shooters. He also recited the “14 words,” a popular white supremacist slogan that has been repeated by other white supremacists: “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.”
he wrote in the ironic style of the chans where they act like it's all a joke. the video was filmed like a first person shooter game for their entertainment. i feel sick. this is literally a trolling massacre
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#5813

Post by RBG » March 15th, 2019, 11:16 am

and our president tweets a link to breitbart where the comments are all 'no one cares about the christians' :facepalm:
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#5814

Post by Cippenham » March 15th, 2019, 12:19 pm

PirateJenny wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 6:39 pm
Slightly OT and I don't know why Soviet era Romanian politics caught my attention, but I decided to watch a BBC documentary about Ceausescu on youtube last night.

There was one part where they decided they were going to export all of their farming produce to try to pay off their debt and had a display of fruit and veg made up for Ceausescu to inspect made out of wood and plastic painted to look like fresh produce while the supermarkets were empty. Very North Korea-esque. I can half imagine something like that in Britain as to how we'd survive post-Brexit.
Au contraire we are not actually leaving anyway they in parliament are going to finally sign to Mays deal next week so that’s a vassal state. Instead it would be a description of what would happen if we had a Corbyn government .

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#5815

Post by Cippenham » March 15th, 2019, 12:23 pm

Trump is and remains one of the truly great presidents.

I am sorry to hear about the actions of a deranged lunatic . There was one in Norway too a while back. I believe those events are tragic and hope there are very few other crazy people like that.

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#5816

Post by Cippenham » March 15th, 2019, 12:28 pm

Trump has of course expressed his sympathies and offered help . To say he in any way encouraged this lunatic is despicable frankly.

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#5817

Post by bal3x » March 15th, 2019, 12:59 pm

I do wonder though what the people of Norway think about this - I mean the Breivik rehabilitation program. The NZ killers apparently were inspired by that guy and got a "blessing"... so one does wonder if sometimes a death penalty is not actually justified. Normally I would be against it, but in the 100% clear cut slaughter cases like this I don't really know...

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#5818

Post by PirateJenny » March 15th, 2019, 1:08 pm

Cippenham wrote:
March 15th, 2019, 12:19 pm
PirateJenny wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 6:39 pm
Slightly OT and I don't know why Soviet era Romanian politics caught my attention, but I decided to watch a BBC documentary about Ceausescu on youtube last night.

There was one part where they decided they were going to export all of their farming produce to try to pay off their debt and had a display of fruit and veg made up for Ceausescu to inspect made out of wood and plastic painted to look like fresh produce while the supermarkets were empty. Very North Korea-esque. I can half imagine something like that in Britain as to how we'd survive post-Brexit.
Au contraire we are not actually leaving anyway they in parliament are going to finally sign to Mays deal next week so that’s a vassal state. Instead it would be a description of what would happen if we had a Corbyn government .
Maybe. According to an article in the Guardian yesterday, trade deals are being signed on imports from Fiji and Papua New Guinea on, you guessed it, fruit and veg. EU wants tariffs on everything if we leave.

What happened in New Zealand was another tragedy. :(

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#5819

Post by RBG » March 15th, 2019, 1:14 pm

Cippenham wrote:
March 15th, 2019, 12:28 pm
Trump has of course expressed his sympathies and offered help . To say he in any way encouraged this lunatic is despicable frankly.
yes we all know he loves Muslims. He said Obama was one because he thought it was a compliment

You're absurd. Also the death penalty just gives them martyr status among their fans. No one thinks they're going to get away with something like this

Also it struck me that he specifically called out low birth rates among white people. Holy crusade against abortion is absolutely part of this movement in many cases
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#5820

Post by bal3x » March 15th, 2019, 1:23 pm

Martyr? Maybe... but then again clearly these people won't change their views and are continuing to disseminate their hate and inspiring others... I don't know what's better in this case - being a *martyr* or *mentor* in euther case... the root cause needs to be tackled, not the consequences, that's for sure.

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#5821

Post by St. Gloede » March 15th, 2019, 2:30 pm

Yes, Bal, I have to be honest that the Breivik case did make me consider the death penalty as a valid option. I think you can find posts from me back in 2012, 2013 making the case. However, eventually I came to agree that sentencing him to life in prison (by technicality) had better long term effect.

Instead of giving him his wish (he advocated for it), it rendered him, for a lack of a better word "impotent", and soon he was in the role of a petulant child - his own worst enemy when it comes to legacy.

Now, the latter fact (and his laughable suit over not being able to play violent video games) could not have taken place if he had a stronger character, in which case people may still have whispered his name, knowing he was there, and left him a symbol - and which point the argument of symbol vs. symbol erupts, and it is likely best to go back to the standard arguments for or against the death penalty, as there is no such distinction in criminal law between "Likely guilty" and "Definitely guilty", however clean and nice this idea might sound (someone said that to me when I argued for the death penalty when in such extreme open and shut cases like this, and it was a great point, legally it has to apply to all).

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#5822

Post by RBG » March 15th, 2019, 3:04 pm

We executed Tim McVeigh in 2001 but it hasn't stopped. I think these guys WANT to die. They just want to take others with them
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#5823

Post by bal3x » March 15th, 2019, 3:46 pm

McVeigh name rarely comes up, but we do hear Breivik mentioned quite a bit, and especially now with this NZ massacre where the guy who did the killings reportedly received *blessings* from Breivik... so I'm not really sure what's better, if these *people* receive their *blessings* from dead martyrs or alive mentors...
The document, which suggests an obsession with violent uprisings against Islam, claims the suspect had “brief contact” with the Norwegian mass-murderer Anders Breivik and that Breivik gave his “blessing” to the attack.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... h-shooting

What I do believe needs to be done is have zero tolerance to hate spitting outlets i.e, close them all immediately on first offence (I'm talking about clear cut cases without any grey areas that always borders on censorship), much more needs to be done to shut them up. They are spreading their crap far too freely.

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#5824

Post by RBG » March 15th, 2019, 5:22 pm

This is the reason its all done 'ironically' for plausible deniability

Where do u draw the line? Our president says Muslims hate our country. Fox news says wearing hijab is against the constitution
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#5825

Post by Cippenham » March 15th, 2019, 5:38 pm

Turns out the lunatic hated conservatives and was not a Christian. He in no way is right wing. Not even in his right senses.

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#5826

Post by RBG » March 15th, 2019, 5:44 pm

Of course. Its always a 'lone wolf' psycho when it's a white guy, right? I assume he's a socialist too

Oh let me guess. A FALSE FLAG operation designed to smear the right. He's secretly anti-fa :ph43r:
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#5827

Post by Cippenham » March 15th, 2019, 5:52 pm

No he believed the following conspiracy which I have seen on the internet, that there is a conspiracy to replace the white European population of western countries with Muslims, and people from Africa and Asia. The conspiracy goes on to say that globalists want this in order to achieve a one world government.

It is utter nonsense. Is it right wing, not sure it is any wing, just goes people will believe anything on the internet

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#5828

Post by Cippenham » March 15th, 2019, 5:54 pm

Tim Berners Lee himself just called for regulation to stop spread of nonsense conspiracy theory. He invented the Web and now he sees its danger. It is also a force for good.

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#5829

Post by RBG » March 15th, 2019, 5:54 pm

That strange conspiracy theory is called white supremacy

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gre ... acy_theory

Aka WHITE GENOCIDE. don't be daft

Is it right wing? Well its opposed to diversity, women's rights and immigration. Sounds awfully right wing to me. I'm gonna stop now as its useless debating our resident shit poster. I'm sure you think there were good people on both sides. Absolutely disgusting to be trolling in this manner in the aftermath of a massacre
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#5830

Post by Cippenham » March 15th, 2019, 7:47 pm

Look forget right wing left wing. Bigger picture is should the internet be controlled. I think conspiracy theories are seductive and sometimes admit I have almost been drawn in. Qanon for example. I realised it was nonsense after some thought. I am sure there are left wing conspiracy theories as well that are nonsense.

I want to rise above this and think what could be done if anything.

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#5831

Post by PirateJenny » March 15th, 2019, 8:27 pm

The social credit system in China sounds like it could be about as Brave New World as you could imagine.
At the moment I think the media we have here can feel like a psychoactive substance. Other countries don't seem to have the same kind of tabloid 'freedom of press' culture, for whatever reasons.

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#5832

Post by RBG » March 15th, 2019, 8:45 pm

whenever we have tried to control the hate we hear how the 'liberal' media is stifling conservative 'thought'

you people don't seem to have thoughts, only grievances. you want to control everyone else. get over yourselves

i guess if everyone would just do what you want, the problem would be solved, so it's our fault. fuck off srsly

and take your president with you. he's actually now threatening violence if he's democratically removed.

funny how the white supremacist Christchurch terrorist, Coast Guard terrorist, Pittsburgh synagogue terrorist, Quebec mosque terrorist, mail bomb terrorist & Charlottesville terrorist all talked about and loved Trump. WONDER WHY

how many more of these events do you need to see to get the point. this is TERRORISM. ok i need to go do something constructive...
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#5833

Post by Cippenham » March 15th, 2019, 9:02 pm

So like China and Russia I believe there is growing pressure to regulate the internet. Certainly in Britain and the EU as well.

This was the act of a Lone crazy but a self styled fascist, that is a left wing philosophy violentally opposed to conservatives. But he was not the part of a movement.

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#5834

Post by Cippenham » March 15th, 2019, 9:04 pm

I would much prefer Pence as President. Trump is too unconventional, and is not conservative really, especially in economic terms. But he is stilll better than the alternative.

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#5835

Post by RBG » March 15th, 2019, 9:06 pm

haha trump regulate his fan club? not gonna happen

Image

rush limbaugh is already calling it a 'false flag' operation
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#5836

Post by Grunge Rock & Ally McBeal » March 15th, 2019, 9:12 pm

Cippenham wrote:
March 15th, 2019, 9:02 pm
So like China and Russia I believe there is growing pressure to regulate the internet. Certainly in Britain and the EU as well.

This was the act of a Lone crazy but a self styled fascist, that is a left wing philosophy violentally opposed to conservatives. But he was not the part of a movement.
Just another internet nut job whose insanity spilt out into the real world. His talking points reminded me of the ramblings I read in forum comment sections. Some people are too mentally fragile to grapple with the complexity of politics.

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#5837

Post by RBG » March 15th, 2019, 9:17 pm

they're not insane. they know what they're doing. it's very dangerous to pretend otherwise

that's my last words on the topic, hope some of you wake the fuck up before it's too late

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... sm/583258/
The president’s rhetoric about “shithole countries” and “invasion” by immigrants invites dismissal as crude talk, but behind it lie ideas whose power should not be underestimated.
this is a fascinating article for those of you who read
Last edited by RBG on March 15th, 2019, 9:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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#5839

Post by xianjiro » March 15th, 2019, 10:41 pm

New Zealand mosque attacker's plan began and ended online
About 1:30 p.m. (0030 GMT) on Friday, the anonymous user told the group “I will carry out and attack against the invaders, and will even livestream the attack via Facebook”; approving responses to the post included Nazi images and memes.

The post featured a link to a 74-page manifesto that said he was motivated by “white genocide”, a term white supremacists use to describe immigration and the growth of minority populations. It also linked to a Facebook page for a user called brenton.tarrant.9, where the attack was livestreamed.
and
“The amount of information and propaganda linked to the far-right, far-left or jihadism is extensive and accessible,” Bervas said. “One of the Christchurch perpetrators posted his manifesto online before the attack where he wrote that he received/researched/developed his beliefs on the Internet, adding ‘You will not find the truth anywhere else’. He cited people like Dylan Roof or Anders Breivik as inspirations, who also researched and developed their beliefs online.”
I've bolded for added emphasis.

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#5840

Post by Grunge Rock & Ally McBeal » March 15th, 2019, 11:21 pm

Of course he did. There's a lot of fucked up losers in the world who think becoming political makes them important.

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