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The Political Lounge

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Cippenham
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Re: The Political Lounge

#5721

Post by Cippenham » February 16th, 2019, 3:55 pm

I think people should stick to the beliefs of their faith as that is more difficult and honest than trying to get in line with fashionable beliefs. Conviction religious people and politicians are much more honourable than trimmers.

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#5722

Post by Lakigigar » February 16th, 2019, 8:56 pm

I might vote for DiEM 2025 in European elections (Democracy in Europe Movement 2025), which is most closely aligned with the ideology of AOC, Sanders and probably Corbyn (even though labourites are part of the boring S&D because their party doesn't fully support Corbyn and are not true socialists). DiEM 2025 is supported by director Ken Loach, Julian Assange, Noam Chomsky, mayor of Barcelona Ada Colau and is the party of Yanis Varoufakis and Benoit Hamon. The party has no chance to elect someone, but they are closest to my ideology, and the woman who pull the list is also quite young and intellectual. They're not sure if they'll make it on the ballot, but they have my signature anyway.

In the Flemish elections, i'll vote for a 29-year old woman who's part of the Worker's Patry of Belgium. She's a climate activist and advocates a social climate policy. I'll support her. I'm not sure for who i'll vote for the federal elections, but currently i think i'm going to vote for the marxist party as well that also has a female candidate (a spanish language teacher of 53 year old)

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#5723

Post by Lakigigar » February 16th, 2019, 9:32 pm

Image

This is my dream senate map... Trump loses in a landslide, and this will cause Dems maybe to make gains in the senate... I hope McConnell loses in a primary against a Republican challenge (OH THE UPSET lol). And i hope Kansas Republicans nominate an extremely unlikeable Republican canididate, who loses against Greg Orman... In Alaska Mark Begich hopefully wins in a close victory over incumbent Dan Sullivan (maybe Palin could challenge her in a primary, that would be nice!)

Senator Cory Gardner loses against a Democrat in 2020 hopefully. Martha McSally loses in the AZ senate race against a Democrat hopefully (Ruben Gallego!!). I hope Bullock, O'Rourke and Abrams will run and win in their respective races against Daines, Corney and Perdue. Ojeda could maybe run on a populist platform against Shelley Moore Capito for senate. Tina Smith, Gary Peters and Jeanne Shaheen hold on in their senate races (Shaheen might have a challenger in Kelly Ayotte, but in a blue year they all should be safe, and maybe some more moderate Dems could be challenged in a primary by a progressive). In Iowa, we will send Joni Ernst home and hopefully the populist J.D. Scholten runs and wins. Mary Landrieu who lost against Cassidy in 2014 could win now in a less hostile year for Dems, while Kay Hagan could oust Thom Tillis in a rematch in North-Carolina. Doug Jones hopefully holds on in Alabama (please nominate Roy Moore again lol), and maybe Mike Espy could become the first black senator from Mississippi to be elected.

DREAM MODUS ON lol. tehe

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#5724

Post by Cippenham » February 17th, 2019, 1:02 pm

Trump will win bigly

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#5725

Post by RedHawk10 » February 18th, 2019, 8:09 am

Cippenham wrote:
February 16th, 2019, 3:55 pm
I think people should stick to the beliefs of their faith as that is more difficult and honest than trying to get in line with fashionable beliefs.
I'd say the exact opposite, that allowing yourself to be open-minded enough to change your perspective on deep-seated beliefs is one of the greatest signs of awareness and intelligence a person can show. It's not about getting in line with "fashionable" beliefs - that has all sorts of goofy implications that I'm not going to bother getting into - it's about having the cognitive strength to admit to yourself when your convictions turn out to be weak or founded on falsity so that you can grow as a person. The idea that refusing to budge/consider/think is seen by many people as some kind of virtue or thing to be proud of is extremely ridiculous to me.

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#5726

Post by Cippenham » February 18th, 2019, 9:20 am

Going down that path for me is to give up your religion and to have a pathless land as Krishnamurti called it. He was against organised religion but promoted meditation and a philosophy .

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#5727

Post by RBG » February 18th, 2019, 11:50 am

RedHawk10 wrote:
February 18th, 2019, 8:09 am
Cippenham wrote:
February 16th, 2019, 3:55 pm
I think people should stick to the beliefs of their faith as that is more difficult and honest than trying to get in line with fashionable beliefs.
I'd say the exact opposite, that allowing yourself to be open-minded enough to change your perspective on deep-seated beliefs is one of the greatest signs of awareness and intelligence a person can show. It's not about getting in line with "fashionable" beliefs - that has all sorts of goofy implications that I'm not going to bother getting into - it's about having the cognitive strength to admit to yourself when your convictions turn out to be weak or founded on falsity so that you can grow as a person. The idea that refusing to budge/consider/think is seen by many people as some kind of virtue or thing to be proud of is extremely ridiculous to me.
i agree -- religion has been used to justify slavery, homophobia, oppression of women, the nazis...
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#5728

Post by Cippenham » February 18th, 2019, 6:33 pm

It can be negative , but it can be a force of peace, relief and even happiness in peoples lives.


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#5730

Post by RBG » February 18th, 2019, 10:49 pm

colombia has resettled about 1 million refugees from venezuela. the equivalent number of admitted refugees for a population the size of the U.S. would be 7 million refugees. how many refugees did the U.S. actually admit in total from all countries last year -- 21,000.
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#5731

Post by RBG » February 18th, 2019, 10:51 pm

Cippenham wrote:
February 18th, 2019, 6:33 pm
It can be negative , but it can be a force of peace, relief and even happiness in peoples lives.
yeah it can be but historically has too often been a force of intolerance and hate and that continues in many quarters
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#5732

Post by Gershwin » February 19th, 2019, 8:45 am

XxXApathy420XxX wrote:
February 18th, 2019, 10:09 pm
https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/13170

Didn't know about this
This message stinks somewhat. I never heard of this website before, but a quick search makes me think it's not exactly meant to be objective. It doesn't look like a completely reliable source.
And masked men ... I don't know. Might as well be done by people who want to put the opposition in a bad light.
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#5733

Post by Mate_cosido » February 19th, 2019, 3:53 pm

For what is worth i remember the news, it was reported in more stablishment liberal media also, this was in '17 though, and was not the only one

It's not surprising at all, there's a clear division on what people are chavistas and what people are opposition, we have somewhat similar division in Argentina, with peronistas/antiperonistas, and there is a lot of hate, racism and clasism involved in that division

Edit: Here is a BBC article, https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-39994965

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#5734

Post by Lakigigar » February 20th, 2019, 7:46 pm

Gershwin wrote:
February 19th, 2019, 8:45 am
XxXApathy420XxX wrote:
February 18th, 2019, 10:09 pm
https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/13170

Didn't know about this
This message stinks somewhat. I never heard of this website before, but a quick search makes me think it's not exactly meant to be objective. It doesn't look like a completely reliable source.
And masked men ... I don't know. Might as well be done by people who want to put the opposition in a bad light.
yes, minimize what happened...
liberals are disgusting.

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#5735

Post by Gershwin » February 20th, 2019, 8:05 pm

Yeah, all liberals would have done the same.
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#5736

Post by Cippenham » February 22nd, 2019, 7:32 am

Watching Dr Steve Turley on YouTube he says what a majority people want in many countries are border security, cultural security and economic security. The parties that address these issues will do well that is why the new right are doing well. The globalist corporations and people like Mrs Clinton want to undermine at least the first two. Border security is immigration control, cultural is preserving traditions and economic keeping our economy strong and creating jobs. The socialist left has no answer to all three, and may even agree with the global corporations in being against border and cultural security. That is why Corbyn and Bernie Sanders or younger left wing Dems will lose, that is why the left will do badly in the EU elections in the main, yes but with a few exceptions as there always are. Can you be a left wing nationalist and support cultural traditions, just relying on economic changes? Not so sure as usually that is not the case,

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#5737

Post by Cippenham » February 22nd, 2019, 7:37 am

I think the old Labour Party in the UK under Attlee and a bit later were left wing but kind of nationalist and preserving cultural traditions so it used to be possible, but I think it’s unlikely nowadays. They were anti EU or a common market but also anti Soviet Union. Not like Corbyn who thinks the wrong side lost the Cold War and hates our country and the west generally

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#5738

Post by RBG » February 22nd, 2019, 6:35 pm

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#5739

Post by RBG » February 23rd, 2019, 11:09 pm

serious shit going down in venezuela :ph43r: sen. chris murphy D-CT

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1099 ... 84641.html
1/ Democrats need to be careful about a potential trap being set by Trump et al in Venezuela. Cheering humanitarian convoys sounds like the right thing to do, but what if it's not about the aid? What if the real agenda is laying a pretext for war? Follow my logic for a second.

2/ First, so secret Trump has been talking up war with Maduro since 2017, when he repeatedly asked McMaster for a plan to overthrow Maduro. New McCabe book confirms Now, Trump says "all options are on the table" and Rubio objects to Senate resolution that forbids war.

3/ I want aid to get to Venezuelans. But let's be honest - Venezuela didn't just lurch into humanitarian crisis. The aid is being sent there now as part of a regime change strategy. Many are hoping that it will be the match that lights a civil war against Maduro.

4/ Senator Rubio rushed to tweet out reports today of Maduro allies firing into Colombian territory, warning that the "the United States WILL help Columbia confront any aggression against them." Venezuela ordered Colombian diplomats out in 24 hours, ramping up the crisis.

5/ Maduro is evil, and the U.S. should pursue a strategy to undermine him and prompt new elections. No one can defend what he has done to Venezuela. But it's quite a different thing for the U.S. to incite a civil war with no real plan for how it ends (sound familiar?).

6/ And finally - and perhaps most importantly - go look up the 1947 Rio Treaty (full text, WikiPedia), It's a western hemisphere mutual defense treaty, and may not require a war declaration if Trump is legitimately coming to the defense of Colombia. Don't think the Venezuela hawks don't know this.
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#5740

Post by Cippenham » February 24th, 2019, 4:36 pm

Trump stops wars and has peace talks with North Korea but it is Hillary who is a warmonger. Good job she lost. I would be surprised if he starts war but of course it’s possible.

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#5741

Post by XxXApathy420XxX » February 24th, 2019, 5:12 pm



Looks like America might be joining in the party

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#5742

Post by RBG » February 24th, 2019, 5:25 pm

Trump thinks a war will help his approval ratings. Its all about him

:rolleyes:
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#5743

Post by XxXApathy420XxX » February 24th, 2019, 5:27 pm

It seriously looks like an invasion is happening. Is this how people felt like during Iraq and Afghanistan? I was too young back then to understand it but I feel terrible and anxious now.

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#5744

Post by RBG » February 24th, 2019, 5:28 pm

Now they'll use this as a cudgel against 'socialist' dems
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#5745

Post by Dolwphin » February 24th, 2019, 5:57 pm

Sanders did make an idiotic tweet on the subject (Venezuela) which effectively furthered CIA-propaganda & supported the regime change effort. Good to see Twitter exploding and condemning this politically calculated move from Sanders. Apparently he has a terrible foreign policy advisor.
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#5746

Post by RBG » February 27th, 2019, 8:49 am

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#5747

Post by Grunge Rock & Ally McBeal » March 1st, 2019, 5:34 am

At what point should the international community put sanctions on the US for its imperialist aggression?

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#5748

Post by Cippenham » March 1st, 2019, 5:48 am

Grunge that won’t happen and it’s wishful thinking tbh so even if they should they won’t . Anyway the US is trying to resolve or stop wars in some areas.

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#5749

Post by Grunge Rock & Ally McBeal » March 1st, 2019, 6:09 am

I know but I wanted to point out the hypocrisy of a country like the US putting sanctions on other countries.

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#5750

Post by bal3x » March 1st, 2019, 3:11 pm

Grunge Rock & Ally McBeal wrote:
March 1st, 2019, 5:34 am
At what point should the international community put sanctions on the US for its imperialist aggression?
This is actually a very good question... time will tell, but already the US plans in a number of places are falling apart due to China, Russia and a few others so things are not as easy for them as it was 20 years ago. The question is when the rest of the wold will open their eyes and join in to establish a truly multilateral world which takes into account also the vital interests of other countries as opposed to a single one... probably Trump can pull it off and alienate even more US allies... this is already happening so he's doing a very good job indeed in that regard.

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#5751

Post by St. Gloede » March 1st, 2019, 3:18 pm

For this to happen the US would either have to become a lot weaker in terms of their economic and militaristic reach, or genuinely cross the line in a way that the UN could not tolerate. It is hard to see what this would be though, as supporting genocide, illegal foreign invasions, supporting coups/backing coups, sponsoring terrorism, etc. is not enough. Unless they actually do something extremely aggressive towards a key western country, I don't see a way it would happen.

China or Russia placing sanctions on them, that is more possible however.

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#5752

Post by RBG » March 1st, 2019, 3:29 pm

China or Russia sanctioning US for human rights violations??
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#5753

Post by bal3x » March 1st, 2019, 3:35 pm

Well, yeah... what I'm really concerned about is that if there really is a serious crisis in the US (be it political, financial or whatever) they will not refrain to start even a major confrontation that can escalate into an all-out war, we have had world wars starting from seemingly insignificant "incidents", there was no nuclear weapons back then though... the technology today basically gives 10-15 minutes for the other side to respond when a missile had been launched... we're at a point when a single mistake can cost very dearly.

China can indeed retaliate economically/financially, but that will also cost them... Russia is in no position to retaliate financially, their economy is not as solid, they do have military/technical/diplomatic means. I think the main question here is how long will the US be able to portray this just as "rogue states" e.g. North Korea, Iran etc. opposing them and when someone like Germany grows some balls to get out of their vassal status and truly put their own interests first. One can argue this slowly happening, e.g. with the Nord Stream 2 project.

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#5754

Post by bal3x » March 1st, 2019, 3:39 pm

RBG wrote:
March 1st, 2019, 3:29 pm
China or Russia sanctioning US for human rights violations??
I'll be honest here - if I have to choose between the US, China or Russia I would probably still pick the US... BUT that does not mean we need to accept the crap they're pulling all the time... the level of double-standards and hypocrisy is simply staggering.
Last edited by bal3x on March 1st, 2019, 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#5755

Post by St. Gloede » March 1st, 2019, 3:42 pm

bal3x wrote:
March 1st, 2019, 3:39 pm
RBG wrote:
March 1st, 2019, 3:29 pm
China or Russia sanctioning US for human rights violations??
I'll be honest here - if I have to choose between the US, China or Russia I would probably still pick the US... BUT that does not mean we need to accept the crap they're pulling all the time...
I mean, it is no weirder than US sanctioning other countries for crimes they themselves commit on a regular basis.

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#5756

Post by bal3x » March 1st, 2019, 3:44 pm

St. Gloede wrote:
March 1st, 2019, 3:42 pm
bal3x wrote:
March 1st, 2019, 3:39 pm
RBG wrote:
March 1st, 2019, 3:29 pm
China or Russia sanctioning US for human rights violations??
I'll be honest here - if I have to choose between the US, China or Russia I would probably still pick the US... BUT that does not mean we need to accept the crap they're pulling all the time...
I mean, it is no weirder than US sanctioning other countries for crimes they themselves commit on a regular basis.
Exactly. The problem here is that the US is imposing US laws on others, whereas they cannot be held accountable for anything. The Iraq debacle alone should have put the US/UK under heavy sanctions. Talk about "trumped up pretexts" LOL.

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#5757

Post by RBG » March 1st, 2019, 3:50 pm

Granted with GOP in power anything can happen. They're completely compromised and committing human rights violation on our own border. a scary time for everyone
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#5758

Post by bal3x » March 1st, 2019, 3:53 pm

I mean the US is now actually dictating sovereign countries whom they should not be doing business with... buy US LNG instead of Russian gas, buy Apple instead of Huawei, buy their weapons instead of Russian... they pulled out of the deal with Iran where the UN/EU confirmed the Iranians didn't violate the deal and are now threatening their allies in EU with sanctions... How ridiculous is this thing even getting?

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#5759

Post by RBG » March 1st, 2019, 3:54 pm

Yes, totally agree with you
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#5760

Post by bal3x » March 1st, 2019, 3:56 pm

RBG wrote:
March 1st, 2019, 3:54 pm
Yes, totally agree with you
Thanks. I'm really worried about the political climate in the US... I think some of the guys don't know what they're actually doing... this is indeed scary.

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