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US Politics thread

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matthewscott8
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Re: US Politics thread

#11801

Post by matthewscott8 » November 8th, 2018, 6:32 pm

yeah for sure, you are right, they are pissed off and taking it out on random strangers. Although that's pretty reductive.

the phrase "mental illness" doesn't really help very much, is anger management a mental illness, or are we reserving mental illness for people who have vivid hallucinations that God is ordering them to kill people. Someone who is shooting a bunch of people is definitely mentally ill one way or the other, but that assignment is usually pulled out to help forget about what has happened. It's OK, you can disregard this mass shooting because the person is "mentally ill".

I'm not really sure what to make about your dad having been a marine. Does that mean you agree that marine training is deliberately dehumanising, or that you disagree.

Anyway these conversations always go to the same places. (1) mental illness as a license to ignore what happened (2) person is pissed off but has no right to be, so fine to forget about it.

It's always the same old pathological avoidance of any sort of admission that communities have stopped working, and people have stopped loving one another.

Avoidance seems to be maybe a touchstone for this era we're in.

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#11802

Post by OldAle1 » November 8th, 2018, 7:44 pm

I don't know that there's a really significant reason for it all besides easy availability of guns, frankly. I hate to take the knee-jerk liberal position on anything so cavalierly, even though it's usually the position I'm closest to, but in this case what else is there? Is our culture any more overtly macho/masculine/toxic than those of Japan, or India, or much of the middle east, or Italy, or Latin America, or anywhere else? Do we have more violence on our tv, in our movies, in our videogames than Japan or France or the UK, or anywhere else? Is our history more violent or charged with racial and ethnic issues than those of South Africa or Germany or Israel or the Philippines or Mexico, or anywhere else?

The only thing that makes us different from all of those countries, the only place we're clearly "ahead", is guns.

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#11803

Post by Gershwin » November 8th, 2018, 7:51 pm

Yes, your culture is definitely more apt to this shit than for instance the culture in the Netherlands, I think, to be honest. All this patriotism is very destructive and sometimes seems quite similar to 19th century nationalism in Europe. But I won’t deny some of the countries you mentioned should run the same amount of risk, were it not for gun control. That is definitely a huge part of it. Mentally ill or simply frustrated or whatever in between kind of machos will be everywhere all over the world, so better keep guns away from them.
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#11804

Post by matthewscott8 » November 8th, 2018, 8:17 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 7:44 pm
I don't know that there's a really significant reason for it all besides easy availability of guns, frankly. I hate to take the knee-jerk liberal position on anything so cavalierly, even though it's usually the position I'm closest to, but in this case what else is there? Is our culture any more overtly macho/masculine/toxic than those of Japan, or India, or much of the middle east, or Italy, or Latin America, or anywhere else? Do we have more violence on our tv, in our movies, in our videogames than Japan or France or the UK, or anywhere else? Is our history more violent or charged with racial and ethnic issues than those of South Africa or Germany or Israel or the Philippines or Mexico, or anywhere else?

The only thing that makes us different from all of those countries, the only place we're clearly "ahead", is guns.
The US is way ahead on a lot of that stuff with a lot of your examples. I think South Africa is a bad comparator as I think they have more problems with violence. More later as on mobile phone in a pub.

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#11805

Post by OldAle1 » November 8th, 2018, 8:19 pm

Yes, you're right, the uber-patriotism is an element also, and that's an area where we are also different from most countries, because we have been quite obviously the world's greatest power for about a century now - Americans feel like they have a certain justification for feeling we are "the best" or "the greatest" or "the strongest" in a way that it's hard for people anywhere else to feel. I guess the closest equivalent would be the UK of the late 19th-early 20th centuries. I'm sure there's plenty of patriotism on some level elsewhere - Belgians get told (with good reason :) ) that they have the best beer, there''s a certain French arrogance about their culture, the Italians still dominate the fashion industry, etc etc, but I don't think any country's citizens are as likely to be as full of themselves as Americans - and you couple that with our near-total ignorance of the rest of the world, it's a recipe for all kinds of disasters. Trumpism and mass shootings really come from the same place.

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#11806

Post by St. Gloede » November 8th, 2018, 8:23 pm

I was going to make a reference to Norway's high gun count per capita, we're 14th in the world, but then I saw that you guys have more than 4 times more. Hell, you have more than twice as many per capita as number two, Yemen, 120.5 per hundred citizens vs. 54 per hundren citizens. That also makes you the only country with more guns than citizens. So you might actually have a point there.

Still, the number of guns do not correlate to shootings.

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#11807

Post by xianjiro » November 8th, 2018, 9:34 pm

RBG wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 4:36 pm
From 1984 to 2004, there was an incident in which at least 10 people were killed about once every four years. Over the past four years, there have been eight. There have been four such incidents this year alone.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 923fe8e269

meanwhile rates of other types of crime are still low compared to the 80s and 90s. are these men so psychically threatened by impending loss of their privilege? gun control would help of course but it wouldn't entirely solve this problem. why are they so angry?? how long will this go on??

election update: it looks like FL senate and governor's race may both be in recount territory. also kyrsten sinema's camp believe she has the votes in AZ

i don't blame abrams and gillum for pursuing every avenue; voter suppression in those races more than made the difference
Well, ex service people present one set of issues. We as a nation, and especially the military, haven't found a good way to get everyone treatment who needs it. When people are rotating home, the last thing they want is to say "yeah, I'm really angry/depressed/whatever and suffering from nightmares/PTSD/whatever" since that often means they don't really get to go home. There's a delay in seeing their friends and family.

Granted, some delay may be in everyone's best interest, but if you've ever been away for very long, you probably can relate to wanting to get home to loved ones and friends on some level. Imagine if after a trip you had to spend a couple days/weeks/months in a mental hospital before that.

And then there is just the macho stuff where (guys especially) try to ignore the problems or self medicate. For whatever reason they don't reintegrate or come home to find out the SO pregnant with someone else's kid or his/her own kids treat him like a stranger. The job that was promised on return is gone. You get the idea.

Most of these people get the help they need, but clearly not everyone does.

And in the broader sense, as long as there are so many people in need of mental health treatment, even in the civilian realm, and so little funding, nothing happens.

I know of a case of a young boy who beat his own mother so badly he broke bones in her face. That's maybe the most egregious example, but he's caused a whole host of problems both at home and school - and yes, other people's kids are at risk. The parents ask for help, but short of paying, out of pocket, to have their son institutionalized, there's little that anyone will do besides "up his meds". Honestly, what's it going to take? A school shooting or knifing?

So yes, the lack of treatment is a huge issue.

The other thing is not everyone is enjoying the economic recovery and didn't see their taxes halved or salary bumped. Some people are still really struggling and alas, that creates resentment, anger, and they lash out. Is it really a surprise that they choose guns to do it? I'm not trying to justify it, but as long as we don't address the social issues and let everyone own as many assault rifles with huge clips as they want, we shouldn't be surprised when things go horribly wrong.

Chances are pretty good the trend you pointed out RBG won't easy anytime until a new government is in place.

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#11808

Post by xianjiro » November 8th, 2018, 9:38 pm

RBG wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 5:36 pm
well my dad was a marine so, yeah?

mostly i'm just struck by the senselessness of sending troops to the border to threaten a bunch of poor migrants when the real evil is right among us

i guess i don't understand human emotions very well maybe. i don't think i've ever had 'mature' or 'deep' interactions with anyone. and to be totally honest i really don't think i want to. i guess that sounds horrible but people are creepy.

everything suggests these men have a grievance. domestic violence is the most common predictor of such behavior. i don't buy the mental illness defense; in most cases they're just pissed off and taking it out on random strangers

it seems like the epitome of so-called toxic masculinity, the ultimate dominance display
all valid points though I'd add that quality interactions with our people are difficult, even in the best of times.

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#11809

Post by RBG » November 8th, 2018, 9:48 pm

I'm not really sure what to make about your dad having been a marine. Does that mean you agree that marine training is deliberately dehumanising, or that you disagree.
no i do agree. my dad was in vietnam. he was completely shut down emotionally. part of toxic masculinity is they can't admit weakness or ask for help. i think having grown up in that environment i probably see it as normal :satstunned:

re guns: 3% of the population own half of america's guns. i'll give you one guess who these hoarders are. wtf are they so afraid of

Image
The survey's findings support other research showing that as overall rates of gun ownership has declined, the number of firearms in circulation has skyrocketed. The implication is that there are more guns in fewer hands than ever before. The top 3 percent of American adults own, on average, 17 guns apiece, according to the survey's estimates.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... e012929494

some tiny progress: a gun control advocate won gingrich's old seat in georgia. the people have had enough in many areas which i guess answers the question of what the hoarders have to fear. i still don't get it :shrug: the weird paranoia and bunker mentality seems very trumpian


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#11810

Post by RBG » November 8th, 2018, 10:04 pm

oh great :folded:
A federal appeals court is weighing whether special counsel Robert Mueller’s appointment to lead the Russia investigation was constitutional.
https://apnews.com/bee182c2856040dcae46 ... SocialFlow

this better go nowhere fast. the greatest danger of trump appointing so many judges is so many (most?) are partisan hacks

what's clearly unconstitutional is trump's appointment of another partisan hack as acting AG

https://www.thedailybeast.com/matthew-w ... and-russia

roger stone: LOCK HIM UP

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#11811

Post by xianjiro » November 8th, 2018, 11:03 pm

some people hoard, others collect - used to have a guy living next door who collected knives, he literally had hundreds around the apartment along with small children and girlfriends with obnoxious relatives. There was lots and lots of fighting and arguing. It's a wonder no one got stabbed.

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#11812

Post by matthewscott8 » November 8th, 2018, 11:39 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 8:19 pm
Yes, you're right, the uber-patriotism is an element also, and that's an area where we are also different from most countries, because we have been quite obviously the world's greatest power for about a century now - Americans feel like they have a certain justification for feeling we are "the best" or "the greatest" or "the strongest" in a way that it's hard for people anywhere else to feel. I guess the closest equivalent would be the UK of the late 19th-early 20th centuries. I'm sure there's plenty of patriotism on some level elsewhere - Belgians get told (with good reason :) ) that they have the best beer, there''s a certain French arrogance about their culture, the Italians still dominate the fashion industry, etc etc, but I don't think any country's citizens are as likely to be as full of themselves as Americans - and you couple that with our near-total ignorance of the rest of the world, it's a recipe for all kinds of disasters. Trumpism and mass shootings really come from the same place.
Btw I'm not saying videogames are a big problem, I don't know about that, but I do know that the videogames are different, in Japan think Sonic The Hedgehog, in the US think Postal. Saw a programme about it a few years back, the Japanese are very cutesy about their computer games.

Macho is a Spanish word but in Latin cultures it's completely different, it's not a negative word, it's about courage (romantic and in fighting), wisdom and responsibility, it's not about ammo and money. The American toxicity is all wrapped up in the absurd concept of being a "loser", usually a word that translates into "reasonable person".

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#11813

Post by RBG » November 9th, 2018, 12:09 am

coincidentally (?) one of our president's favorite words <_<



:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

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#11814

Post by flaiky » November 9th, 2018, 1:29 am

RBG wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 9:48 pm
no i do agree. my dad was in vietnam. he was completely shut down emotionally. part of toxic masculinity is they can't admit weakness or ask for help. i think having grown up in that environment i probably see it as normal :satstunned:
It's "normal" everywhere.

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#11815

Post by RBG » November 9th, 2018, 1:39 am

LOL sinema now up 9000 votes and it looks like she has won in AZ

Image

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#11816

Post by Cocoa » November 9th, 2018, 2:29 am

Yaaaaaaaaaaaas! Democrats continuing to pull through despite Republican voter suppression.

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#11817

Post by xianjiro » November 9th, 2018, 3:31 am

matthewscott8 wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 11:39 pm
OldAle1 wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 8:19 pm
Yes, you're right, the uber-patriotism is an element also, and that's an area where we are also different from most countries, because we have been quite obviously the world's greatest power for about a century now - Americans feel like they have a certain justification for feeling we are "the best" or "the greatest" or "the strongest" in a way that it's hard for people anywhere else to feel. I guess the closest equivalent would be the UK of the late 19th-early 20th centuries. I'm sure there's plenty of patriotism on some level elsewhere - Belgians get told (with good reason :) ) that they have the best beer, there''s a certain French arrogance about their culture, the Italians still dominate the fashion industry, etc etc, but I don't think any country's citizens are as likely to be as full of themselves as Americans - and you couple that with our near-total ignorance of the rest of the world, it's a recipe for all kinds of disasters. Trumpism and mass shootings really come from the same place.
Btw I'm not saying videogames are a big problem, I don't know about that, but I do know that the videogames are different, in Japan think Sonic The Hedgehog, in the US think Postal. Saw a programme about it a few years back, the Japanese are very cutesy about their computer games.

Macho is a Spanish word but in Latin cultures it's completely different, it's not a negative word, it's about courage (romantic and in fighting), wisdom and responsibility, it's not about ammo and money. The American toxicity is all wrapped up in the absurd concept of being a "loser", usually a word that translates into "reasonable person".
BTW, fighting video games were quite popular in Japan though I don't remember gun-oriented games at all. Racing games were also big, but of course Pachinko is the national time/money waster.

I'll also take exception to your portrayal that macho is not a negative word. Like most things, context and country will tell us a lot and I promise I've had many a conversation, in Spanish, where macho wasn't used in a complementary fashion. I've also heard it used as a compliment too, as in, "he very manly", but by and far, it was usually used to describe the same sort of toxic masculinity discussed in recent posts. I'd probably say I associate the word most with womanizing and abuse.

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#11818

Post by xianjiro » November 9th, 2018, 3:58 am

RBG wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 1:39 am
LOL sinema now up 9000 votes and it looks like she has won in AZ
SpoilerShow
Image
noticed that the southern NM House district also flipped - R to D both in terms of how it was reported on Tuesday night, but also in terms of hold over the seat. Okay, I missed a two year term 2009-2011.

BTW, both chambers of the Oregon legislature now have D supermajorities. The Rs spent heavily both on my local senate race and the governor believing both in play, but that's not what the results suggest. My senator won with 59% (up from 49% in 2014) of the vote and the governor 49.9 to 43.8. (We don't require a majority to win.) So Rs effectively shut out of everything besides their current control of the Secretary of State's office (and alas, that means elections, but while he's pushed for reviews of certain voter registration practices, don't feel we've had anything like the disenfranchisement seen elsewhere).

But more importantly, a stealth anti-abortion measure went down. I say stealth because the slogan went something like "if it's a personal choice, then tax dollars shouldn't pay for it". It turns out about 3500 abortions were funded by state taxes through the state's Medicaid expansion program - Medicaid doesn't pay those costs. The no vote was almost 65%, so pretty clear signal once again there.

Also we had an attempt to repeal the state's prohibition on state/local law enforcement enquiring into immigration status that dates back three decades before the Shithole. It died with just over 63% of the vote wanting things to stay the way they are. Nope, this ain't Shithole Country! :lol:

Caveat: significant divide on both issues and Rs winning rural v urban/suburban, but I'm sure that surprises no one.

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#11819

Post by funkybusiness » November 9th, 2018, 5:28 am

I think I'm in love with Kyrsten Sinema. some might call me a sinephile.

I'll leave now.

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#11820

Post by xianjiro » November 9th, 2018, 7:18 am

:hmph:

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#11821

Post by matthewscott8 » November 9th, 2018, 11:14 am

xianjiro wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 3:31 am
matthewscott8 wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 11:39 pm
OldAle1 wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 8:19 pm
Yes, you're right, the uber-patriotism is an element also, and that's an area where we are also different from most countries, because we have been quite obviously the world's greatest power for about a century now - Americans feel like they have a certain justification for feeling we are "the best" or "the greatest" or "the strongest" in a way that it's hard for people anywhere else to feel. I guess the closest equivalent would be the UK of the late 19th-early 20th centuries. I'm sure there's plenty of patriotism on some level elsewhere - Belgians get told (with good reason :) ) that they have the best beer, there''s a certain French arrogance about their culture, the Italians still dominate the fashion industry, etc etc, but I don't think any country's citizens are as likely to be as full of themselves as Americans - and you couple that with our near-total ignorance of the rest of the world, it's a recipe for all kinds of disasters. Trumpism and mass shootings really come from the same place.
Btw I'm not saying videogames are a big problem, I don't know about that, but I do know that the videogames are different, in Japan think Sonic The Hedgehog, in the US think Postal. Saw a programme about it a few years back, the Japanese are very cutesy about their computer games.

Macho is a Spanish word but in Latin cultures it's completely different, it's not a negative word, it's about courage (romantic and in fighting), wisdom and responsibility, it's not about ammo and money. The American toxicity is all wrapped up in the absurd concept of being a "loser", usually a word that translates into "reasonable person".
BTW, fighting video games were quite popular in Japan though I don't remember gun-oriented games at all. Racing games were also big, but of course Pachinko is the national time/money waster.

I'll also take exception to your portrayal that macho is not a negative word. Like most things, context and country will tell us a lot and I promise I've had many a conversation, in Spanish, where macho wasn't used in a complementary fashion. I've also heard it used as a compliment too, as in, "he very manly", but by and far, it was usually used to describe the same sort of toxic masculinity discussed in recent posts. I'd probably say I associate the word most with womanizing and abuse.
I guess to clarify I'm suggesting that macho in Latino culture can have either positive or negative connotations (or be seen as a mixed bag), I was more trying to point out that it's not an exclusively negative word, which it much more is in anglo culture. Wisdom is definitely not a part of the anglo concept. Whereas I've seen it very clearly as a part of the concept when I've been looking into Mexico recently

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#11822

Post by Minkin » November 9th, 2018, 11:37 am

RBG wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 4:20 pm
our latest shooter is former marine ian david long, 28, who killed 12 people before shooting himself at a bar last night in thousand oaks. conservatives on social media have been describing him as 'middle eastern'
This has been an absolutely insane 24 hours, but for whoever cares to hear - I live in Thousand Oaks, and went to highschool with the shooter.

All of my friends had been to Borderline countless times over the years, as it was the main dance / bar venue in the area.

And to top things off the whole city is on fire right now. The same building that housed grieving families waiting to hear updates on the status of their children - is now an evacuation center. And many of those victims and families of victims are now evacuating. I'm ok right now, but the fire line keeps moving closer and closer towards us. Also not sure if my sister's place is still standing or not.

The city had a vigil today, but nobody could make it because we're fucking evacuating.

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#11823

Post by matthewscott8 » November 9th, 2018, 11:57 am

flaiky wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 1:29 am
RBG wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 9:48 pm
no i do agree. my dad was in vietnam. he was completely shut down emotionally. part of toxic masculinity is they can't admit weakness or ask for help. i think having grown up in that environment i probably see it as normal :satstunned:
It's "normal" everywhere.

I'm gonna pull out a minor rant about this. What I wish is that the thinking was all joined up on this one. So yup, bit of a no-brainer, let's bring boys up to be sensitive. And every woman I've ever known agrees with this. But then when as a man, as someone who is pulling all stops out on trying to be sensitive, you then try and get a date with a woman, suddenly you're talking to someone completely different, who doesn't like wimps. And every guy you meet who is an absolute asshole, is getting along famously and has a little black book. And if you want to understand as a woman how schizophrenic this makes men feel, reference the requirement that many men have had of women, be an angel in the kitchen and a whore in the bedroom. I don't know much in popular culture that addresses this, the only thing I can remember seeing is Anais Nin, "In Favor of the Sensitive Man".

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#11824

Post by Lakigigar » November 9th, 2018, 1:21 pm

O'Rourke now favoured by the bookies!

O’Rourke 19.2
Harris 18.2
Warren 12.8
Biden 10.0
Bullock 9.1
Gabbard 8.8
Sanders 8.8
Gillibrand 7.2

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#11825

Post by matthewscott8 » November 9th, 2018, 1:31 pm

Minkin wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 11:37 am
RBG wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 4:20 pm
our latest shooter is former marine ian david long, 28, who killed 12 people before shooting himself at a bar last night in thousand oaks. conservatives on social media have been describing him as 'middle eastern'
This has been an absolutely insane 24 hours, but for whoever cares to hear - I live in Thousand Oaks, and went to highschool with the shooter.

All of my friends had been to Borderline countless times over the years, as it was the main dance / bar venue in the area.

And to top things off the whole city is on fire right now. The same building that housed grieving families waiting to hear updates on the status of their children - is now an evacuation center. And many of those victims and families of victims are now evacuating. I'm ok right now, but the fire line keeps moving closer and closer towards us. Also not sure if my sister's place is still standing or not.

The city had a vigil today, but nobody could make it because we're fucking evacuating.
That's really shitty, I hope everyone gets through this terrible time.

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#11826

Post by Lakigigar » November 9th, 2018, 1:58 pm

Yes, Sinema has won, and this means i have predicted all states correct on Atlas My Predictions lol!

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#11827

Post by Gershwin » November 9th, 2018, 2:03 pm

matthewscott8 wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 1:31 pm
Minkin wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 11:37 am
RBG wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 4:20 pm
our latest shooter is former marine ian david long, 28, who killed 12 people before shooting himself at a bar last night in thousand oaks. conservatives on social media have been describing him as 'middle eastern'
This has been an absolutely insane 24 hours, but for whoever cares to hear - I live in Thousand Oaks, and went to highschool with the shooter.

All of my friends had been to Borderline countless times over the years, as it was the main dance / bar venue in the area.

And to top things off the whole city is on fire right now. The same building that housed grieving families waiting to hear updates on the status of their children - is now an evacuation center. And many of those victims and families of victims are now evacuating. I'm ok right now, but the fire line keeps moving closer and closer towards us. Also not sure if my sister's place is still standing or not.

The city had a vigil today, but nobody could make it because we're fucking evacuating.
That's really shitty, I hope everyone gets through this terrible time.
Sounds bad, Minkin. Hope all of your beloved ones stay well! :hug:
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OldAle1
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#11828

Post by OldAle1 » November 9th, 2018, 2:29 pm

Minkin wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 11:37 am
RBG wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 4:20 pm
our latest shooter is former marine ian david long, 28, who killed 12 people before shooting himself at a bar last night in thousand oaks. conservatives on social media have been describing him as 'middle eastern'
This has been an absolutely insane 24 hours, but for whoever cares to hear - I live in Thousand Oaks, and went to highschool with the shooter.

All of my friends had been to Borderline countless times over the years, as it was the main dance / bar venue in the area.

And to top things off the whole city is on fire right now. The same building that housed grieving families waiting to hear updates on the status of their children - is now an evacuation center. And many of those victims and families of victims are now evacuating. I'm ok right now, but the fire line keeps moving closer and closer towards us. Also not sure if my sister's place is still standing or not.

The city had a vigil today, but nobody could make it because we're fucking evacuating.
Wow. Sorry to hear that this hit so close to home - but unfortunately, I think most of us Americans these days have an experience with violence that's too close for comfort. WTF is wrong with a country that is so rich and yet allows this kind of crap to keep happening?

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#11829

Post by Minkin » November 9th, 2018, 2:35 pm

I'll post more updates soon, having to keep tabs on all the shit going on here as the freeway just closed.

But maybe my /other's responses can be moved to a different thread, as its not exactly US Politics!

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#11830

Post by Cippenham » November 9th, 2018, 3:52 pm

Ignore this
Last edited by Cippenham on November 9th, 2018, 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#11831

Post by matthewscott8 » November 9th, 2018, 4:21 pm

The Arizona thing is horrendous, I read up about the legal attempts to stop some of the votes being counted. Made me want to puke. A friend screwed his face up when we were talking about it. How can you have a political party that has a key strategy of trying to disenfranchise people. It is just hostile and insane.

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#11832

Post by RBG » November 9th, 2018, 4:28 pm

wow minkin, my sympathies. no one should have to deal with this shit. i was in proximity to the annapolis shooting last summer but didn't know anyone involved and that was plenty disturbing. can't imagine what you're going through
Last edited by RBG on November 9th, 2018, 4:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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#11833

Post by RBG » November 9th, 2018, 4:30 pm



our president folks <_<

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#11834

Post by Cippenham » November 9th, 2018, 4:30 pm

matthewscott8 wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 4:21 pm
The Arizona thing is horrendous, I read up about the legal attempts to stop some of the votes being counted. Made me want to puke. A friend screwed his face up when we were talking about it. How can you have a political party that has a key strategy of trying to disenfranchise people. It is just hostile and insane.
Equally to be fair they say some states allowed illgail immigrants to vote. Don’t know if that’s true, just as reported.

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#11835

Post by OldAle1 » November 9th, 2018, 4:32 pm

They made the short-term choice to go the "southern strategy" route in the 1960s, thinking (correctly, at the time) that if they just courted white voters overwhelmingly that this would keep them in power. It's rather amazing that it's lasted up until now but, well, there are a whole lot of stupid reasons for that, some of them built into the system like the electoral college and the 2-senators-per-state, some not. Now they've developed into a party with ideas antithetical to anybody who isn't white, male, rich, Christian, and straight - or dumb enough to believe their lies to the contrary - and they are an ever-increasing minority, so their only choices to stay in power are 1) disenfranchise & discourage people or 2) change. Of course the latter is absolutely impossible for a party wedded to a 2000 year old collection of fairy tales and a 230 year old document written before electricity was in use.

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#11836

Post by RBG » November 9th, 2018, 4:33 pm

Equally to be fair they say some states allowed illgail immigrants to vote. Don’t know if that’s true, just as reported.

yes trump's been saying that for years but has yet to produce any evidence. as he's the president you'd think he could have it investigated or something. he doesn't because he'd rather just repeat baseless claims so people like you will believe it

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#11837

Post by RBG » November 9th, 2018, 4:36 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 4:32 pm
They made the short-term choice to go the "southern strategy" route in the 1960s, thinking (correctly, at the time) that if they just courted white voters overwhelmingly that this would keep them in power. It's rather amazing that it's lasted up until now but, well, there are a whole lot of stupid reasons for that, some of them built into the system like the electoral college and the 2-senators-per-state, some not. Now they've developed into a party with ideas antithetical to anybody who isn't white, male, rich, Christian, and straight - or dumb enough to believe their lies to the contrary - and they are an ever-increasing minority, so their only choices to stay in power are 1) disenfranchise & discourage people or 2) change. Of course the latter is absolutely impossible for a party wedded to a 2000 year old collection of fairy tales and a 230 year old document written before electricity was in use.
right, ultimately they will have to kill people to stay in power. they'll blame civil unrest

today he's blocked illegal immigrants from seeking asylum. it's cruel and inhuman but of course he doesn't consider them human
Last edited by RBG on November 9th, 2018, 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#11838

Post by xianjiro » November 9th, 2018, 4:38 pm

Minkin wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 11:37 am
RBG wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 4:20 pm
our latest shooter is former marine ian david long, 28, who killed 12 people before shooting himself at a bar last night in thousand oaks. conservatives on social media have been describing him as 'middle eastern'
This has been an absolutely insane 24 hours, but for whoever cares to hear - I live in Thousand Oaks, and went to highschool with the shooter.

All of my friends had been to Borderline countless times over the years, as it was the main dance / bar venue in the area.

And to top things off the whole city is on fire right now. The same building that housed grieving families waiting to hear updates on the status of their children - is now an evacuation center. And many of those victims and families of victims are now evacuating. I'm ok right now, but the fire line keeps moving closer and closer towards us. Also not sure if my sister's place is still standing or not.

The city had a vigil today, but nobody could make it because we're fucking evacuating.
sorry to hear about how both are affecting you @Minkin :hug: take care and stay safe! Given the chaos, also hope that you have someone to talk to if that's what you need.

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
sol can find me here

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#11839

Post by xianjiro » November 9th, 2018, 4:42 pm

Lakigigar wrote:
November 9th, 2018, 1:21 pm
O'Rourke now favoured by the bookies!

O’Rourke 19.2
Harris 18.2
Warren 12.8
Biden 10.0
Bullock 9.1
Gabbard 8.8
Sanders 8.8
Gillibrand 7.2
Miss Congeniality is at 9.1?!? Color me Kevin McCallister home alone!!! :lol:

Listen, Daddy. Teacher says, 'every time a car alarm bleeps, into heaven a demon sneaks.'
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#11840

Post by RBG » November 9th, 2018, 4:44 pm

omg :facepalm:
Last edited by RBG on November 9th, 2018, 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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