What's the most underwatched type of film on this forum?

[outdoorcats]

Those films count for sure. But there were many critically acclaimed and/or popular Black films of the '90s that I'd be surprised to see users here mention. There's a big divide here between what my "RL" friends have seen and talk about and what users here have even heard of (some context: I'm a White guy in Philadelphia, but most of my friends and coworkers are Black). For instance, in real life people are surprised I still haven't seen Love Jones (I'll get to it, dammit!). I wonder how many users here have heard of it?

or...

Boyz n the Hood (1991) (probably the most well known)
The Five Heartbeats (1991)
New Jack City (1991)
Menace II Society (1993)
Poetic Justice (1993)
Crooklyn (1994) (criminally underseen Spike Lee joint)
The Inkwell (1994)
Dead Presidents (1995)
Higher Learning (1995)
Set it Off (1996)
Eve's Bayou (1997)
Love Jones (1997)
Soul Food (1997)
Rosewood (1997)
The Best Man (1999)
The Wood (1999)
Love & Basketball (2001)

In my neck of the woods, it's be hard to find someone over 25 who hasn't heard of most of these. As for ICM, perhaps most of them are too "mainstream," but plenty of users here don't mind mainstream titles and might be surprised by how much they like some of these if they gave them a shot.

Some more indie or artsy titles that are more in line with iCM's tastes:

Medicine for Melancholy (2008)
Night Catches Us (2010)
Pariah (2011)
An Oversimplification of Her Beauty (2012)
Middle of Nowhere (2012)
Mother of George (2013)

Great American films with mostly Black casts didn't suddenly pop up in the last few years, but they have recently started enjoying more cross-cultural appeal. Maybe the worldwide success of Black Panther helped. You can imagine until recently most White people may have glanced at the posters for these, thought, "Well, I'm not the target audience for that," shrugged and moved on. Of course, that's rarely an option for anyone in a racial minority, unless they just don't watch a lot of movies, period.

[weirdboy]

There are some decent things I have seen on Japanese TV that are non-anime, but a) very few of those sort have decent subtitles and b) most of Japanese TV makes US TV look enlightened by comparison, so you really have to wade through a huge pile of crud to get to any hidden gems.

Most of the Japanese (non-anime) TV that I've watched has been good. I usually look at Douban ratings to help me decide what to watch. I posted some of my favorites in this thread, but here are a couple of recommendations for people on this forum:

If you like detective shows, I recommend Unnatural (2018). It's about a group of forensic pathologists who investigate crimes, and I think it's pretty mainstream and would probably appeal to most people.
If you like historical/time travel, I recommend Jin (2009). It's about a doctor who goes back in time to the edo period.

I do not mean to offend you, but you are cherry picking a few shows spread out over several decades of broadcast TV. Actually watching TV as it airs day-to-day is a completely different phenomenon.

[mjf314]

I do not mean to offend you, but you are cherry picking a few shows spread out over several decades of broadcast TV. Actually watching TV as it airs day-to-day is a completely different phenomenon.

Maybe the average quality isn't good, but you can say the same about any country. But no one is forcing me to watch the average stuff. I watch the stuff that I think I'll probably like.

I don't agree that "you really have to wade through a huge pile of crud to get to any hidden gems". I've seen 15. I think 8 of those 15 are great, and there's only 1 that I disliked, so it's been easy for me to find good ones.

[Fergenaprido]

Popular cinema from non-English speaking countries.

Agreed, followed by cinema in general from Africa, Asia, and Latin America.

To you and other people who gave this answer: Is there a particular country that you think is the most underwatched?

Nollywood, hands down.

Most people who regularly watch movies watch over 95% English language movies. I think the percentage on this forum is a LOT lower. I just did a quick check on the latest 100 features I watched and 45 of those are English. So I guess I'm doing pretty well on non-English movies and I don't feel I'm an exception here.

I like this new game.
My last 100 feature-length watches: 40 different countries, 30 different languages. USA & English are at the top of the list, but only at 18% and 29%, respectively.

Spoiler

18 USA
11 France
8 UK
6 Brazil
5 Germany, Philippines
3 Japan, Malaysia
2 Argentina, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Italy, South Korea, Mexico, Russia, Serbia, Sweden, Turkey
1 Australia, Belgium, Canada, Cambodia, Cuba, Spain, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Greece, Iceland, Israel, Netherlands, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Poland, Senegal, Switzerland, Slovakia, Thailand, Vietnam

29 English
14 French
6 Spanish
5 German, Portuguese
4 Tagalog/Filipino
3 Japanese
2 Amharic, Indonesian, Italian, Korean, Russian, Serbo-Croatian, Swedish, Turkish, Mandarin
1 Greek, Estonian, Hebrew, Hiligaynon, Icelandic, Georgian, Malay, Dutch, Polish, Slovak, Thai, Vietnamese, Wolof, English-Malay, Malay-English-Tamil, Tucano-Portuguese

I can best speak for Germany and the deutscher Filmgeschmack, but I'd like to ask every participating forum member who doesn't come from the USA or UK (and especially one of the smaller film countries): Is the contemporary, popular film culture of your homeland represented on the forum? Does it appear on ICM as a site at all? Speaking of commercially successful movies of the last 20 or 30 years.

You may take a look at the 50 commercially most successful films in Germany to see how little it has to do with the perceived reality of our industry on ICM. There's a shitload of atrocious comedies I'm ashamed of, Winnetou adaptations, sex films of the 1970s, rom-coms (bad and very bad ones, a few alright) some brainless mainstream trash - what the pleb will commonly enjoy, you know.

That German box office list looks interesting; I might add it to icm.

Popular Canadian films aren't represented on the forum, either in English or in French. Not that there are that many homegrown hits these days, as often the most successful "Canadian" films are Hollywood ones taking advantage of the tax system up north.

I'm 100% sure that such a perspective on the mainstream of virtually all existing nations is severely lacking for our community and to an even greater extent for the ICM lists.
It's understandable, in a way - life is short and how much popular fodder that from an objective perspective is average at best are even the well-meaning among us willing to consume?

As a result, we will watch great and "relevant" films from many different countries which will always show a unique tone, but will often already be filtered through criteria for cinephiles and an arthouse crowd. (Onderhond could publish whole essays on that.)

We sometimes get an idea of how bad things really are when involuntarily being exposed to audience hits of Turkey or India and call them mafia. I'm not too interested in completing those and so should you; but we will always have a blind spot for the real film soul of many countries due to that.
It looks a bit better for the big film nations such as France and Japan, maybe some of the Scandinavian countries, Benelux, Spain, Italy. Who of us (else than Onderhond) has an idea what Chinese folks truly enjoyed the last 20 years? Looking at the Box Office list, some will get mighty surprised it's not Zhang, Yang, Kia or HHH.
We also have a glimpse at Russia's popular cinema via the poll list on ICM. It ends for the rest of Eastern European countries, though.

Fully agreed on this.

Ok, so my next question is, which countries have the best popular cinema?

I'd be interested in hearing opinions from people who watch a lot of popular cinema from all over the world (if there are such people on this forum).

I don't know if I watch "a lot" of popular cinema from all over the world, but I suspect I watch more than most here (or at least a wider variety).

France - These are usually easy to come by, and every year there's a French Film Festival that shows a dozen films from the past two or three years that I always catch 3-5 films from. I think our resident Frenchies can say better than I can, but most of the ones coming my way have been comedies (not necessarily romcoms), dramas, and thrillers.

India/China/Southeast Asia - Cinewest & Onderhond likely have a better scope on China, and tommy has a better one on India, but living in Malaysia means that we get all the mainstream hits from Hollywood, India, China, and Southeast Asia to the theatres here, due to the ethnic make-up of the country. Luckily for me, 95% of them are screened with English subtitles, so I've managed to see quite a few in theatres. Chinese action films and comedies do the best here; for India it's romcoms and thrillers (though in the Tamil-only cinemas they screen a wider variety, but there are no English subtitles so I've never been); and for Southeast Asia it's a lot of horror films, more about ghosts and the supernatural than slashers, and often incorporating bits of local folklore/legend. SEA romcoms are also increasingly popular here. But seriously... so many horror films.

For other countries, I usually only catch them on flights, and from what I've seen it's again mostly comedies and thrillers. They've been hit and miss for me. I did finally get Netflix this year, which has more popular cinema from around the world than I thought it would (including Nollywood!), so I'll likely start using that to explore more.

I don't know if I could say which country has the "best" popular cinema, but from what I've seen thus far, I'd say that France has the most of what I'm interested in seeing, followed by Spain and then maybe South Korea.

By "type of film" I mean a country, genre, sub-genre, or any category of film or TV that you can think of. It can even be something like a country-genre-decade combination.

A type of film is "underwatched" if there are a lot of good films, but not many people on this forum watch those films.

Which type of film do you think is the most underwatched?

American films with mostly/all Black casts? (Unless it's a big Oscar winner like Moonlight I guess)

Hm, I have the impression that this is a branch of the movie industry which is growing since the early 2010s and rose to some popularity among critics at the end of the decade. Would films such as The Hate U Give (2018) and Jenkins' follow-up If Beale Street Could Talk (2018) count for you? I see authors of certain film sites in support of an ethnically more diverse (other than white, that is) cinema; these are often part of the huge branch of American independent films, where you'll find anything.
You could compare the movement with the rise of LGBTQ as a broad area that seemed to rise earlier and probably also has more output in the meantime. ICM added Slate's small Black Canon, for a start, at least.

Are you saying you don't see any of the forum users watching these films - which I doubt - or that no one dedicatedly works on them as a project - which seems possible and clearly isn't the case with LGBT cinema around here.

I wouldn't include The Hate U Give or If Beale Street Could Talk in that category. Those are both smaller independent features with serious topics and aimed at a wider audience. My first thought was actually films like the ones Tyler Perry directs and/or produces - mainly comedies starring predominantly Black actors that are seen by most Black cinemagoers - and the first batch of films odc mentions in his second post. These "for us by us" type of films. These films used to be coded as "urban" films (since Black people live/used to live mostly in (inner) urban areas) in a way that always seemed vaguely racist to me, but they were generally marketed solely towards Black folks (and the voting patterns for those films on imdb also behaved differently than other US releases).

[mjf314]

To you and other people who gave this answer: Is there a particular country that you think is the most underwatched?

Nollywood, hands down.

Do you have any Nollywood recommendations for us?

[outdoorcats]

Wait, two things:

-Many of the film's I listed were films with serious topics. Also The Hate U Give was directed by George Tillman, the director of Soul Food (which is one of the best family dynamics dramas of the '90s). Definitely in the same spirit of the films I listed, albeit with a more diverse cast.
-I don't think any of them deserve to be compared to Tyler Perry's films. Come on now. Roger Ebert called Eve's Bayou the best film of 1997 (and had similarly high praise for Menace II Society). These are all films with legitimately good to great reputations. Perry churns out factory-made formulaic melodramas for old churchy folks. The low IMDb ratings are extreme but it's not like you're not going to find any classics in his filmography.

[maxwelldeux]

Those films count for sure. But there were many critically acclaimed and/or popular Black films of the '90s that I'd be surprised to see users here mention. There's a big divide here between what my "RL" friends have seen and talk about and what users here have even heard of (some context: I'm a White guy in Philadelphia, but most of my friends and coworkers are Black). For instance, in real life people are surprised I still haven't seen Love Jones (I'll get to it, dammit!). I wonder how many users here have heard of it?

or...

Boyz n the Hood (1991) (probably the most well known)
The Five Heartbeats (1991)
New Jack City (1991)
Menace II Society (1993)
Poetic Justice (1993)
Crooklyn (1994) (criminally underseen Spike Lee joint)
The Inkwell (1994)
Dead Presidents (1995)
Higher Learning (1995)
Set it Off (1996)
Eve's Bayou (1997)
Love Jones (1997)
Soul Food (1997)
Rosewood (1997)
The Best Man (1999)
The Wood (1999)
Love & Basketball (2001)

In my neck of the woods, it's be hard to find someone over 25 who hasn't heard of most of these. As for ICM, perhaps most of them are too "mainstream," but plenty of users here don't mind mainstream titles and might be surprised by how much they like some of these if they gave them a shot.

Some more indie or artsy titles that are more in line with iCM's tastes:

Medicine for Melancholy (2008)
Night Catches Us (2010)
Pariah (2011)
An Oversimplification of Her Beauty (2012)
Middle of Nowhere (2012)
Mother of George (2013)

Great American films with mostly Black casts didn't suddenly pop up in the last few years, but they have recently started enjoying more cross-cultural appeal. Maybe the worldwide success of Black Panther helped. You can imagine until recently most White people may have glanced at the posters for these, thought, "Well, I'm not the target audience for that," shrugged and moved on. Of course, that's rarely an option for anyone in a racial minority, unless they just don't watch a lot of movies, period.

Interesting list for sure - thanks for sharing!

I haven't really been following the conversation here, but I love seeing lists and recommendations like this. And would love to revisit some of those that I've seen when they first came out, as I know I'd have a different perspective now.

[prodigalgodson]

How has there been all this talk about black American film with no mention of the LA Rebellion -- Charles Burnett, Haile Gerima, Julie Dash, Larry Clark...? UCLA's been restoring and touring new prints for the better part of a decade now, I'm sure some people on here have seen some of these aside from Killer of Sheep. And then you have Oscar Micheaux from back in the day, Cheryl Dunn and Bill Gunn more recently, and Khalik Allah even more recently, all of whom have a good chunk of work available on Criterion (Personal Problems and some of KA's work are my priorities atm). And as long as we're talking 90s genre schlock, Juice should be up there with New Jack City and Menace 2 Society in terms of influence on the culture.

[Fergenaprido]

To you and other people who gave this answer: Is there a particular country that you think is the most underwatched?

Nollywood, hands down.

Do you have any Nollywood recommendations for us?

Nope. Haven't seen any.

Wait, two things:

-Many of the film's I listed were films with serious topics. Also The Hate U Give was directed by George Tillman, the director of Soul Food (which is one of the best family dynamics dramas of the '90s). Definitely in the same spirit of the films I listed, albeit with a more diverse cast.
-I don't think any of them deserve to be compared to Tyler Perry's films. Come on now. Roger Ebert called Eve's Bayou the best film of 1997 (and had similarly high praise for Menace II Society). These are all films with legitimately good to great reputations. Perry churns out factory-made formulaic melodramas for old churchy folks. The low IMDb ratings are extreme but it's not like you're not going to find any classics in his filmography.

I've yet to see a Tyler Perry film (it's on my to-do list), but I don't see him in a negative light as so many others do, and "comparing" those films to his wasn't meant as an insult to them. He does do broad comedy, but he's also done some serious films that garnered a bit more respect. In particular, I remember how polarizing the reviews for For Colored Girls was when it first came out - people either loved it or hated it.

How has there been all this talk about black American film with no mention of the LA Rebellion -- Charles Burnett, Haile Gerima, Julie Dash, Larry Clark...? UCLA's been restoring and touring new prints for the better part of a decade now, I'm sure some people on here have seen some of these aside from Killer of Sheep. And then you have Oscar Micheaux from back in the day, Cheryl Dunn and Bill Gunn more recently, and Khalik Allah even more recently, all of whom have a good chunk of work available on Criterion (Personal Problems and some of KA's work are my priorities atm). And as long as we're talking 90s genre schlock, Juice should be up there with New Jack City and Menace 2 Society in terms of influence on the culture.

I didn't mention it because I don't think those films are underseen on this forum.

[Teproc]

Definitely agree that a Nollywood list would be great. With such a prolific production, surely there has to be something worth watching in there.

[prodigalgodson]

How has there been all this talk about black American film with no mention of the LA Rebellion -- Charles Burnett, Haile Gerima, Julie Dash, Larry Clark...? UCLA's been restoring and touring new prints for the better part of a decade now, I'm sure some people on here have seen some of these aside from Killer of Sheep. And then you have Oscar Micheaux from back in the day, Cheryl Dunn and Bill Gunn more recently, and Khalik Allah even more recently, all of whom have a good chunk of work available on Criterion (Personal Problems and some of KA's work are my priorities atm). And as long as we're talking 90s genre schlock, Juice should be up there with New Jack City and Menace 2 Society in terms of influence on the culture.

I didn't mention it because I don't think those films are underseen on this forum.

Ahh excellent, I've got some catching up to do then.

[albajos]

Extreme low budget filmmaking.

I basically hang around Vimeo all day, supporting these movies. At least they have fun with the media, and not as cynical as studio productions usually is.

[St. Gloede]

I can best speak for Germany and the deutscher Filmgeschmack, but I'd like to ask every participating forum member who doesn't come from the USA or UK (and especially one of the smaller film countries): Is the contemporary, popular film culture of your homeland represented on the forum? Does it appear on ICM as a site at all? Speaking of commercially successful movies of the last 20 or 30 years.

No, not at all (but that's probably a good thing)

[St. Gloede]

France is probably better covered than most countries with regard to popular cinema, but it still feels like the view you get of French cinema from this forum's perspective is radically different from how it looks like from here for most people. But again, France is definitely better covered in that regard than most countries, so I'm not thinking of any country in particular, it's literally any non-English speaking country.

For instance, I would love a box office list that's just made of the top 10 films from every country you could get data from (only counting films from that particular country). Don't know how doable that is though.

I think that's a very interesting idea.

I generally have little interest in films that are simply seen/popular by mass audiences, beyond perhaps understanding the public consciousness at a given time (but that is usually more interesting to me in retrospect). I used to watch more, though mainly US and Norwegian films, when I was younger, to take part in some of these conversations, but it is really not that worth it for me anymore.

However, it may still highlight interesting films I otherwise wouldn't have heard about, and possibly even get more casual film viewers from across the world interested in ICM.

[St. Gloede]

For instance, I would love a box office list that's just made of the top 10 films from every country you could get data from (only counting films from that particular country). Don't know how doable that is though.

It's doable, and it would be Titanic and Avatar and Jurassic Park and Marvel movies repeated over and over with the occasional local hit thrown in. I guess that you mean local hits only, which would also be doable, but a lot more work I expect. The data does exist, if someone wanted to take the time to do it.

Some countries count admissions instead of $ like the US, so that would be something you'd have to make a decision on when making the list as well.

I would be interested in a list of the top 10 local films from each country.

I guess this page would be useful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... _by_region

I'm not sure what other good sources there are.

Great idea and source, Mjf!

(I guess a further question is if we are adjusting for inflation, or we want the focus on "new" - I know which one Onderhond will be leaning towards )

[St. Gloede]

In terms of the question at hand I think the most obvious (beyond mainstream films from around the world) would be India - being the biggest film producer of the world - and with a large history of popular and acclaimed films. Bangladesh might be a slight exception, and we do love our Mani Kaul - but the focus on Indian cinema is much smaller than other forums I have been on - and for reference, I am also part of this, as Bollywood films in particular rarely interest me (tieing into how I rarely love musicals of course, but they also do so much more).

[cinewest]

By "type of film" I mean a country, genre, sub-genre, or any category of film or TV that you can think of. It can even be something like a country-genre-decade combination.

A type of film is "underwatched" if there are a lot of good films, but not many people on this forum watch those films.

Which type of film do you think is the most underwatched?

American films with mostly/all Black casts? (Unless it's a big Oscar winner like Moonlight I guess)

You are probably right, there, though there are a lot more of them being made, lately, even some finding distribution on Netflix (Where I’ve also seen a few) and Prime. Do you have any good recommendations?
I saw Fruitvale Station, and the Last Black Man in San Francisco recently, which were both worthwhile and connected to where I come from. Am also very interested in Waves, though the director is white.

[sol]

Soviet and Balkan comedies. I keep recommending comedies from these two regions to Adam and Lauren but no dice.

There are a few Soviet comedies that I like, but maybe not enough to call myself a fan. Do you have any recommendations?

My #1 recommendation would be Watch Out for the Automobile (aka 'Beware of Car'), which is not only hilarious, but has noir aesthetics too.

Other than that, Moskva-Kassiopeya is really good and its sequel Teens in the Universe is even better.

Some others I really enjoyed:

- Blue Mountains
- Operation 'Y'
- Kin-dza-dza! - Koo!
- Gaidai's 12 Chairs

But yeah, Balkan stuff feels overlooked too - especially Romania. It's insane that I'm inside the top 102 users for the Romanian list with only 8 checks.

[St. Gloede]

I used to love Gaidai as a teenager! Not as big a fan anymore, though Kidnapping Caucasian Style should be seen by anyone interested. Still not seen 12 Chairs for some reason.

I think Kin-Dza-Dza will have the most success here, and it is hilarious.

Not seen Blue Mountains or the two sci-fi comedies. Bookmarked all 3, cheers Sol.

Was not a big fan of Bewwre of the Automobile when I first saw it, but this is one I think I would appreciate more now.

[beavis]

I have seen a lot of Kaukasus movies this month, and kidnapping was featured an awful lot too! ...maybe i should give it a go?
the type of humor seems not my cup of tea though... and I understand it is a sequel to Operation Y (both about the adventures of a guy called Shurik)?

[St. Gloede]

Yes, Shurik is also the lead in the time travel comedy Ivan Vasilievich: Back to the Future.

There is no real relation between the films beyond the characters, and Operation Y is an episodic film, while the later films have one narrative.

The type of humour is very silly. I would say Gaidai's films in general builds on/are similar silent era comedy jokes and set-ups, in that there is a lot of practical jokes, over-simplification of characters/motives/actions, chases, etc.

[mjf314]

@sol: Thanks. I liked Kin-dza-dza! I don't remember much about Watch Out for the Automobile, but I don't think I liked it very much. I'll consider watching the others.

[Lonewolf2003]

I have seen a lot of Kaukasus movies this month, and kidnapping was featured an awful lot too! ...maybe i should give it a go?

Kidnapping? I wouldn't recommend it. It's way more work than it seems. You have to keep them quiet all the time, feed them, get a good chain and lock. And the anxiety about if the ransom will be payed is very bad for your heart.

[outdoorcats]

How has there been all this talk about black American film with no mention of the LA Rebellion -- Charles Burnett, Haile Gerima, Julie Dash, Larry Clark...? UCLA's been restoring and touring new prints for the better part of a decade now, I'm sure some people on here have seen some of these aside from Killer of Sheep. And then you have Oscar Micheaux from back in the day, Cheryl Dunn and Bill Gunn more recently, and Khalik Allah even more recently, all of whom have a good chunk of work available on Criterion (Personal Problems and some of KA's work are my priorities atm). And as long as we're talking 90s genre schlock, Juice should be up there with New Jack City and Menace 2 Society in terms of influence on the culture.

I was making a list of "classics" of the '90s that most people I know in RL are well acquainted with. If you know people in RL who can talk about Burnett or Haile Gerima I assume you must live in academic circles.

[OldAle1]

How has there been all this talk about black American film with no mention of the LA Rebellion -- Charles Burnett, Haile Gerima, Julie Dash, Larry Clark...? UCLA's been restoring and touring new prints for the better part of a decade now, I'm sure some people on here have seen some of these aside from Killer of Sheep. And then you have Oscar Micheaux from back in the day, Cheryl Dunn and Bill Gunn more recently, and Khalik Allah even more recently, all of whom have a good chunk of work available on Criterion (Personal Problems and some of KA's work are my priorities atm). And as long as we're talking 90s genre schlock, Juice should be up there with New Jack City and Menace 2 Society in terms of influence on the culture.

I was making a list of "classics" of the '90s that most people I know in RL (who aren't cinephiles) are well acquainted with. If you know people in RL who can talk about Burnett or Haile Gerima I assume you must live in academic circles.

Burnett had some (very minimal) commercial exposure at one time though - To Sleep With Anger and The Glass Shield had regular commercial releases, at least in large cities like Chicago - I saw both at multiplexes - and Nightjohn premiered on PBS in primetime. His profile was definitely a cut above the rest of that group, none of whom to my knowledge ever had anything in wide commercial release. So to people of my generation who were at all interested in independent American films, Burnett isn't the most obscure name out there. I met him once, actually - very quiet and understated guy but also quick to correct you if you said something stupid or ill-informed.

[outdoorcats]

By "type of film" I mean a country, genre, sub-genre, or any category of film or TV that you can think of. It can even be something like a country-genre-decade combination.

A type of film is "underwatched" if there are a lot of good films, but not many people on this forum watch those films.

Which type of film do you think is the most underwatched?

American films with mostly/all Black casts? (Unless it's a big Oscar winner like Moonlight I guess)

You are probably right, there, though there are a lot more of them being made, lately, even some finding distribution on Netflix (Where I’ve also seen a few) and Prime. Do you have any good recommendations?
I saw Fruitvale Station, and the Last Black Man in San Francisco recently, which were both worthwhile and connected to where I come from. Am also very interested in Waves, though the director is white.

From what I've seen you tend to gravitate towards artsy filmmaking, so I'd recommend anything by Barry Jenkins (he's a bit of Ozu, a bit of Wong Kar-Wai, a bit of something his own), or Mother of George (though the director is Nigerian and the film is about Nigerian immigrants). Waves is a great film, though more of a diverse "all-American" story I suppose.

[outdoorcats]

How has there been all this talk about black American film with no mention of the LA Rebellion -- Charles Burnett, Haile Gerima, Julie Dash, Larry Clark...? UCLA's been restoring and touring new prints for the better part of a decade now, I'm sure some people on here have seen some of these aside from Killer of Sheep. And then you have Oscar Micheaux from back in the day, Cheryl Dunn and Bill Gunn more recently, and Khalik Allah even more recently, all of whom have a good chunk of work available on Criterion (Personal Problems and some of KA's work are my priorities atm). And as long as we're talking 90s genre schlock, Juice should be up there with New Jack City and Menace 2 Society in terms of influence on the culture.

I was making a list of "classics" of the '90s that most people I know in RL (who aren't cinephiles) are well acquainted with. If you know people in RL who can talk about Burnett or Haile Gerima I assume you must live in academic circles.

Burnett had some (very minimal) commercial exposure at one time though - To Sleep With Anger and The Glass Shield had regular commercial releases, at least in large cities like Chicago - I saw both at multiplexes - and Nightjohn premiered on PBS in primetime. His profile was definitely a cut above the rest of that group, none of whom to my knowledge ever had anything in wide commercial release. So to people of my generation who were at all interested in independent American films, Burnett isn't the most obscure name out there. I met him once, actually - very quiet and understated guy but also quick to correct you if you said something stupid or ill-informed.

Still several cuts below the recognition of anyone in my own circle I guess. I would be stunned if someone I knew had heard of him.

[Lammetje]

Four categories that really deserve more love:

Spoiler

-conceptually bankrupt dramas selling Frenchness to wine mums
-run of the mill hype movies
-police action crime capers
-overrated arthouse poverty porn pictures.

If you didn't know that was coming you just aren't a hardcore icmer, are you?

Let's not forget Monty's l'il mom's p**n movie.

[prodigalgodson]

How has there been all this talk about black American film with no mention of the LA Rebellion -- Charles Burnett, Haile Gerima, Julie Dash, Larry Clark...? UCLA's been restoring and touring new prints for the better part of a decade now, I'm sure some people on here have seen some of these aside from Killer of Sheep. And then you have Oscar Micheaux from back in the day, Cheryl Dunn and Bill Gunn more recently, and Khalik Allah even more recently, all of whom have a good chunk of work available on Criterion (Personal Problems and some of KA's work are my priorities atm). And as long as we're talking 90s genre schlock, Juice should be up there with New Jack City and Menace 2 Society in terms of influence on the culture.

I was making a list of "classics" of the '90s that most people I know in RL are well acquainted with. If you know people in RL who can talk about Burnett or Haile Gerima I assume you must live in academic circles.

Nah, the only person of those I'd expect my rl friends might be acquainted with is Khalik Allah, who's pretty tied in to hip hop culture, and maybe Burnett since Killer of Sheep and To Sleep with Anger are LA classics -- but I'm just talking about under-appreciated black American classics, not films your particular friend group might be familiar with.

[RogerTheMovieManiac88]

Porn, particularly porno chic

And, no, I'm not 3rd's back-up account...

[xianjiro]

Spoiler

Those films count for sure. But there were many critically acclaimed and/or popular Black films of the '90s that I'd be surprised to see users here mention. There's a big divide here between what my "RL" friends have seen and talk about and what users here have even heard of (some context: I'm a White guy in Philadelphia, but most of my friends and coworkers are Black). For instance, in real life people are surprised I still haven't seen Love Jones (I'll get to it, dammit!). I wonder how many users here have heard of it?

or...

Boyz n the Hood (1991) (probably the most well known)
The Five Heartbeats (1991)
New Jack City (1991)
Menace II Society (1993)
Poetic Justice (1993)
Crooklyn (1994) (criminally underseen Spike Lee joint)
The Inkwell (1994)
Dead Presidents (1995)
Higher Learning (1995)
Set it Off (1996)
Eve's Bayou (1997)
Love Jones (1997)
Soul Food (1997)
Rosewood (1997)
The Best Man (1999)
The Wood (1999)
Love & Basketball (2001)

In my neck of the woods, it's be hard to find someone over 25 who hasn't heard of most of these. As for ICM, perhaps most of them are too "mainstream," but plenty of users here don't mind mainstream titles and might be surprised by how much they like some of these if they gave them a shot.

Some more indie or artsy titles that are more in line with iCM's tastes:

Medicine for Melancholy (2008)
Night Catches Us (2010)
Pariah (2011)
An Oversimplification of Her Beauty (2012)
Middle of Nowhere (2012)
Mother of George (2013)

Great American films with mostly Black casts didn't suddenly pop up in the last few years, but they have recently started enjoying more cross-cultural appeal. Maybe the worldwide success of Black Panther helped. You can imagine until recently most White people may have glanced at the posters for these, thought, "Well, I'm not the target audience for that," shrugged and moved on. Of course, that's rarely an option for anyone in a racial minority, unless they just don't watch a lot of movies, period.

Just checked your lists and don't see one to that effect - sure would make a fine list for iCM though! (I've seen about half off the top of my head.)

[OldAle1]

Porn, particularly porno chic

And, no, I'm not 3rd's back-up account...

I doubt that's underwatched; undermentioned, perhaps - for some tastes.

[xianjiro]

Porn, particularly porno chic

And, no, I'm not 3rd's back-up account...

I doubt that's underwatched; undermentioned, perhaps - for some tastes.

Of course! Some of us only watch porn for the production values and magnificently intricate plotting.

HIM: Hey lady, I got ur pizza from Luigi's here with an extra long pepperoni.

HER: Yeah, we'll I'm going to hide your tip here and here, how's that for professional service?

HIM: I love this job! Just wish I didn't have to share tips when I get back to the shop.

And no, that's a boom mic shadow! What were you thinking?!?

[prodigalgodson]

How has there been all this talk about black American film with no mention of the LA Rebellion -- Charles Burnett, Haile Gerima, Julie Dash, Larry Clark...? UCLA's been restoring and touring new prints for the better part of a decade now, I'm sure some people on here have seen some of these aside from Killer of Sheep. And then you have Oscar Micheaux from back in the day, Cheryl Dunn and Bill Gunn more recently, and Khalik Allah even more recently, all of whom have a good chunk of work available on Criterion (Personal Problems and some of KA's work are my priorities atm). And as long as we're talking 90s genre schlock, Juice should be up there with New Jack City and Menace 2 Society in terms of influence on the culture.

I was making a list of "classics" of the '90s that most people I know in RL are well acquainted with. If you know people in RL who can talk about Burnett or Haile Gerima I assume you must live in academic circles.

Nah, the only person of those I'd expect my rl friends might be acquainted with is Khalik Allah, who's pretty tied in to hip hop culture, and maybe Burnett since Killer of Sheep and To Sleep with Anger are LA classics -- but I'm just talking about under-appreciated black American classics, not films your particular friend group might be familiar with.

To clarify, since this sounds salty, the reason I'm dragging those 90s films is that despite their influence on a generational cohort, I think they're far from the best that black American cinema has to offer, and distract attention from the real treasures that've been neglected by the cinephile world (still haven't seen the vast majority of these black 90s what I'd call "nostalgia classics", so I'd be happy to be proven wrong). Burnett and Gerima, for instance, are cut from the cloth of Godard and Oshima, working within their budgetary constraints to create magic, whereas New Jack City is directed like an episode of the Adam West Batman show. I'm glad Love Jones exists so we get a couplet like "acrobat, run up on that Love Jones actress / distract a cat, while I'm high sugar, get a crack at this" from Ghost, but I don't care to seek out the film itself any more than any contemporary white romantic sap. If we're just sticking to mainstream/cult hits, at least give me something antiestablishment and certifiably dope like The Mack or Sweet Sweetback.

[RogerTheMovieManiac88]

Porn, particularly porno chic

And, no, I'm not 3rd's back-up account...

I doubt that's underwatched; undermentioned, perhaps - for some tastes.

Haha, hence the stressing of the chic part. But, yes, my post wasn't meant in all that much seriousness, Ale.

[outdoorcats]

I was making a list of "classics" of the '90s that most people I know in RL are well acquainted with. If you know people in RL who can talk about Burnett or Haile Gerima I assume you must live in academic circles.

Nah, the only person of those I'd expect my rl friends might be acquainted with is Khalik Allah, who's pretty tied in to hip hop culture, and maybe Burnett since Killer of Sheep and To Sleep with Anger are LA classics -- but I'm just talking about under-appreciated black American classics, not films your particular friend group might be familiar with.

To clarify, since this sounds salty, the reason I'm dragging those 90s films is that despite their influence on a generational cohort, I think they're far from the best that black American cinema has to offer, and distract attention from the real treasures that've been neglected by the cinephile world (still haven't seen the vast majority of these black 90s what I'd call "nostalgia classics", so I'd be happy to be proven wrong). Burnett and Gerima, for instance, are cut from the cloth of Godard and Oshima, working within their budgetary constraints to create magic, whereas New Jack City is directed like an episode of the Adam West Batman show. I'm glad Love Jones exists so we get a couplet like "acrobat, run up on that Love Jones actress / distract a cat, while I'm high sugar, get a crack at this" from Ghost, but I don't care to seek out the film itself any more than any contemporary white romantic sap. If we're just sticking to mainstream/cult hits, at least give me something antiestablishment and certifiably dope like The Mack or Sweet Sweetback.

You're still arguing with a straw man.

I'll repeat: I made a list of films from the '90s that people I know in RL are well acquainted with and consider classics, but which users here are usually not familiar with (unlike, say, the films of Burnett, which are well-known on this forum). They are recommendations for people who like (good) mainstream films. That's all.

I never said 'this mainstream film is better than this arthouse film.' (It might be, but that's beside the point) The notion that one film "distracts attention" from another different film doesn't make any sense.

[prodigalgodson]

You're still arguing with a straw man.

I'll repeat: I made a list of films from the '90s that people I know in RL are well acquainted with and consider classics, but which users here are usually not familiar with (unlike, say, the films of Burnett, which are well-known on this forum). They are recommendations for people who like (good) mainstream films. That's all.

I never said 'this mainstream film is better than this arthouse film.' (It might be, but that's beside the point) The notion that one film "distracts attention" from another different film doesn't make any sense.

For sure, I thought that list was signifying the "American films with mostly/all Black casts" you mentioned being under-seen on this forum; my point was that particular subset is just the tip of the iceberg of that criteria. If your point was that popular 90s black genre flicks are underrepresented here, which I'm sure they also are, that's totally fair.

[Lakigigar]

Contemporary cinema in general, esp. foreign language

[joachimt]

Contemporary cinema in general, esp. foreign language

And you know this based on what?

Every time someone simply states something like that without stats, I get curious.
Here's the distribution by year of my last 500 checks.



Out of the last 200, 99 are English and 101 are not. That's including lots of movies on Netflix and Prime, which are very English centered. So 50% non-English is quite a good score I guess.

I wonder how the number would be for most people here.

[joachimt]

Year distribution of all 914 checks by Lakigigar:



Of the last 100, 74 are English, 26 not.