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Let's start a Magazine (yes, you heard right)

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Re: Let's start a Magazine (yes, you heard right)

#41

Post by mightysparks » August 9th, 2020, 1:24 am

I’m pretty excited that there are so many experienced editors here for me to learn from :)

Love all the ideas so far and awesome to see so many people willing to contribute (l)
"I do not always know what I want, but I do know what I don't want." - Stanley Kubrick

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#42

Post by St. Gloede » August 9th, 2020, 12:36 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 6:30 pm
Interesting idea. I don't fancy myself much of a writer, but I'm a great editor if Gloede needs help there.

Coincidentally, I'm being recruited as a project manager for an online magazine. I don't know if I'll apply for the job, but if I end up going that route I may learn some useful things.
Great coincidence, and you/we can definitely use your talent. :cheers:

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#43

Post by St. Gloede » August 9th, 2020, 12:36 pm

Teproc wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 6:31 pm
I would love to participate in such a project, I guess the only area in which I can bring some expertise compared to people here would be current French cinema.
Always an interestic topic! Great to have you onboard. :cheers:

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#44

Post by St. Gloede » August 9th, 2020, 12:37 pm

prodigalgodson wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 7:22 pm
Love this idea gloede! Count me in.
That makes me extremely happy, Prodigal. The FG3 spirit lives on. :cheers:

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#45

Post by St. Gloede » August 9th, 2020, 12:38 pm

Chilton wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 10:28 pm
If I can find the time, I would love to help out as well, I'm a senior editor for a international news agency so I could contribute in the editing process if needed (my job is more picture-focused than text-focused though). Looks like we won't fall short of editors though :D

I've also been trying to get back into writing after a long hiatus, so maybe this might motivate me to finally commit something to digital paper :think:
That is just what we are missing! You could bring your expertise to the actual magazine, especially the cover. :cheers:

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#46

Post by St. Gloede » August 9th, 2020, 12:39 pm

jal90 wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 11:46 pm
Thanks! I don't know if I'd be very useful, but I guess I could more or less be of use particularly on animated stuff, or for a more first-hand criticism of Spanish movies ¿?
Those are both topics I'm sure will garner interest!

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#47

Post by St. Gloede » August 9th, 2020, 12:44 pm

sol wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 3:03 pm
I'll do whatever whatever. Just let me know what you want me to do.

I could always do a section dedicated to "great films that you probably haven't seen". tehe

Or - perhaps more relevant to me - I could present a decent Australian movie each week that more people should have seen.
The opening so far :lol: (l) :cheers:

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#48

Post by St. Gloede » August 9th, 2020, 12:45 pm

3eyes wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 2:42 pm
There are other puzzles easier to manage than crosswords, such as cryptograms (movie quotes, or sets of movie titles, directors, actors, genres, etc.)

Is there anything we could do with some of our games (change a letter, combine two titles, etc.)? We could even post stuff from our archive for some of these.
All great ideas!

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#49

Post by jvv » August 9th, 2020, 1:08 pm

Looks like there is a lot of interest in this.

Maybe it is a good idea to decide on the theme(s) of the first (few) episode(s), so people can check what they can write (or already have written) that would fit. When this is collected in a thread (or maybe open a channel on the discord server we use for the podcast for this) it would be easier to see what's still missing for a complete edition of the magazine and what needs to be focused on. It could also prevent lots of double work when people know what others are already working on.

I'm not going to be writing any reviews or articles myself (I'm not very good at it and more importantly I don't enjoy doing it), but I might take a shot at making a themed puzzle now and then.

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#50

Post by prodigalgodson » August 9th, 2020, 7:44 pm

St. Gloede wrote:
August 9th, 2020, 12:37 pm
prodigalgodson wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 7:22 pm
Love this idea gloede! Count me in.
That makes me extremely happy, Prodigal. The FG3 spirit lives on. :cheers:
Yesss, viva!

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#51

Post by Daviddoes » August 11th, 2020, 3:41 am

As someone who counts The New Cult Canon and 366 Weird Movies among their favorite lists, I would like to take a shot at a cult/weird movie article.

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#52

Post by St. Gloede » August 11th, 2020, 8:48 am

jvv wrote:
August 9th, 2020, 1:08 pm
Looks like there is a lot of interest in this.

Maybe it is a good idea to decide on the theme(s) of the first (few) episode(s), so people can check what they can write (or already have written) that would fit. When this is collected in a thread (or maybe open a channel on the discord server we use for the podcast for this) it would be easier to see what's still missing for a complete edition of the magazine and what needs to be focused on. It could also prevent lots of double work when people know what others are already working on.

I'm not going to be writing any reviews or articles myself (I'm not very good at it and more importantly I don't enjoy doing it), but I might take a shot at making a themed puzzle now and then.
Agreed - I think it would make sense, for simplicity to align with the challenges, and pinpoint the general subjects/niches that would have the most appeal. For instance, for October and November would be absolutely perfect for a Horror Edition and a Noir edition respectively, and we can all keep this in mind across the challenge. I'm not sure if we would be able to get an edition up before then.

If we want to get one up in early September we have the 1970s, German Language and <400 Checks - of which we could easily do a 1970s edition, a German Edition or a Undiscovered Gems edition - and include our latest toplist relevant for the subject within it as well. I.e. "The 250 best films of the 1970s" could be one of the major titles on the front page.

Thoughts?

I also think the top priority should be in the online version, which is what we can more easily share (though we can of course advertise of free magazine on all things related to cinema). That said, creating the online version, i.e. setting up a Wordpress and linking it to the forum (or buying the another related domain) takes a bit of additional effort in technical ability (the magazine will require design abilities), but once up we could simply post one off-articles we are extra proud of for traction.

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#53

Post by Fergenaprido » August 11th, 2020, 9:43 am

A September issue would be a challenge, IMO, especially without a clear idea of what you already want to do. I'd recommend aiming for October, since Horror is pretty big on this forum and it will be easier to pull together something with more time and more focus.

I would also recommend having a start-up meeting with various stakeholders/interested people to hammer out some basics, like:
- Why do we want to have a magazine?
- What is the primary purpose of the magazine?
- What are the secondary/tertiary purposes of the magazine?
- What are the roles/responsibilities that we need filled?
- Who is/are the final decision maker(s)?
- What kind of format do we want?
- Who is our target audience?
- What are regular features that we want to have in every issue?

etc.

Also, set up a separate subforum here for magazine discussion, or a trello board, or something to track progress as you work, otherwise it can become a mess rather quickly.

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#54

Post by St. Gloede » August 11th, 2020, 11:19 am

There's the product owner/project manager!

And I agree 100%, I would say we should aim for October/November, a much more reasonable timeline - as need to have the roles set, and be sure we can do it.

Half of the above were already answered by AdamH, Mightysparks and myself pre-suggestion, but it can be good to revisit. The current answers are:

- Why do we want to have a magazine?: Outreach/acquisition, increasing discussion, expressing ourselves/self-promotion
- What is the primary purpose of the magazine?: Outreach/acquisition and Increasing Discussion here
- What are the secondary/tertiary purposes of the magazine?: Eventually building the magazine to have a sizable following, personal expression/self-promotion
- Who is our target audience? Potential members (all cinephiles/film buffs, though different editions can appeal to different groups)

Roles is a very important point, we have already thought about: Writers, Designers, Editors/Project Managers, Dev/Tech/UX (website set-up), as well as Puzzle Makers - we could also use Promoters and potentially various admin work down the road. But we could be missing key roles.

- Who is/are the final decision maker(s)? TBD - I would say Editor/Admin team in terms of final approval, but we could also do open polls re: design, etc.
- What kind of format do we want? - Website and Kindle/Amazon/PDF
- What are regular features that we want to have in every issue? - TBD

The start-up meeting should be done once we have assembled a base team - which we seem to have now. I am currently building a discord server that should be suitable to our needs.

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#55

Post by Fergenaprido » August 11th, 2020, 12:12 pm

Looks good. The only role I can think of off the top of my head that we might also want is Marketing (though maybe that's the same as Promoters?).

I would also suggest better alignment between the Why and the Target Audience... we want to make sure that they're interested in the magazine and find value in it too (unless we're perfectly okay with no one ever reading it but ourselves), but that is a topic for future discussion.

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#56

Post by St. Gloede » August 11th, 2020, 1:31 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 12:12 pm
Looks good. The only role I can think of off the top of my head that we might also want is Marketing (though maybe that's the same as Promoters?).

I would also suggest better alignment between the Why and the Target Audience... we want to make sure that they're interested in the magazine and find value in it too (unless we're perfectly okay with no one ever reading it but ourselves), but that is a topic for future discussion.
What do you think is the weakness? The core idea of the why is outreach/acquistion of new members, so the target group will be the type of film buff that would be inclined to join - with the potential of each edition going after a different niche/target group. Overall I think we would still interest anyone interested in S&S, but with a slightly broader focus. If all it does is inspire more conersation/writing here, that is still a benefit, but the aim is growth - for the forum, and the magazine.

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#57

Post by St. Gloede » August 11th, 2020, 1:33 pm

Update: Re-Discord

We will create a subforum instead, but with a discord for more dedicated work).

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#58

Post by St. Gloede » August 11th, 2020, 1:36 pm

Btw, are you referring to Sinek's Why, How, What? Every brand sprint I have ever been to uses that video and workshop. It is burnt into my mind. :lol:

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#59

Post by Fergenaprido » August 11th, 2020, 1:45 pm

St. Gloede wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 1:31 pm
Fergenaprido wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 12:12 pm
Looks good. The only role I can think of off the top of my head that we might also want is Marketing (though maybe that's the same as Promoters?).

I would also suggest better alignment between the Why and the Target Audience... we want to make sure that they're interested in the magazine and find value in it too (unless we're perfectly okay with no one ever reading it but ourselves), but that is a topic for future discussion.
What do you think is the weakness? The core idea of the why is outreach/acquistion of new members, so the target group will be the type of film buff that would be inclined to join - with the potential of each edition going after a different niche/target group. Overall I think we would still interest anyone interested in S&S, but with a slightly broader focus. If all it does is inspire more conersation/writing here, that is still a benefit, but the aim is growth - for the forum, and the magazine.
My main concern is that this may become a self-serving product; if we're only focused on what we want to promote and getting out message out there, and not paying attention to what our target audience is actually looking for, we just end up in one giant circle jerk feeling proud and accomplished with what we've done, but no one else really cares about it and in the end we fail to meet our stated goals/intentions because we've been so focused on what we want and what we think other cinephiles want without ever really checking to see if our presumptions are true.

I hate to suggest it, mainly because my company was so stuck on ours for so long and couldn't move forward, but maybe we need to come up with a customer avatar :P
St. Gloede wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 1:36 pm
Btw, are you referring to Sinek's Why, How, What? Every brand sprint I have ever been to uses that video and workshop. It is burnt into my mind. :lol:
Haha I'm familiar with it, and indeed have used it for work before, but no, I wasn't specifically thinking of it in this case.

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#60

Post by Onderhond » August 11th, 2020, 2:03 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 1:45 pm
I hate to suggest it, mainly because my company was so stuck on ours for so long and couldn't move forward, but maybe we need to come up with a customer avatar :P
You mean "personas"? I think just mentioning that could get your fired from the firm I work for :D

On the one hand I understand the trap of just writing for yourself, on the other hand it would be a bit ironic if we adjusted ourselves too much to target audiences when writing about film as an artform. Let's not be too Hollywood!

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#61

Post by Fergenaprido » August 11th, 2020, 2:11 pm

Onderhond wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 2:03 pm
Fergenaprido wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 1:45 pm
I hate to suggest it, mainly because my company was so stuck on ours for so long and couldn't move forward, but maybe we need to come up with a customer avatar :P
You mean "personas"? I think just mentioning that could get your fired from the firm I work for :D

On the one hand I understand the trap of just writing for yourself, on the other hand it would be a bit ironic if we adjusted ourselves too much to target audiences when writing about film as an artform. Let's not be too Hollywood!
Haha, yeah, "personas" could work too.

And I agree, I don't mean to suggest we should cater to whatever it is our target audience wants, but that we should be at least aware of it and not operating in our own little bubble.

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#62

Post by Onderhond » August 11th, 2020, 2:15 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 2:11 pm
Haha, yeah, "personas" could work too.
I think we switched to the "top task methodology" because it's way more outside-in, whereas personas still rely way too much on assumptions people make about others.
Don't have any first-hand experience with it, but it's basically just a lot of polling people to find out what they think is the most important reason for possible reading our magazine.

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#63

Post by 3eyes » August 11th, 2020, 2:42 pm

I'm glad we've reached the stage of getting down to nuts and bolts. Mostly Greek to me, but "discord server" sounds apt for a forum that argues interminably about most anything. :P
:run: STILL the Gaffer!

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#64

Post by St. Gloede » August 11th, 2020, 2:47 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 1:45 pm
My main concern is that this may become a self-serving product; if we're only focused on what we want to promote and getting out message out there, and not paying attention to what our target audience is actually looking for, we just end up in one giant circle jerk feeling proud and accomplished with what we've done, but no one else really cares about it and in the end we fail to meet our stated goals/intentions because we've been so focused on what we want and what we think other cinephiles want without ever really checking to see if our presumptions are true.

I hate to suggest it, mainly because my company was so stuck on ours for so long and couldn't move forward, but maybe we need to come up with a customer avatar :P
There's is always that risk, but I don't think it is a major risk, as we are all in the various target group niches, and can easily test what kind of covers, titles and topics causes interest - but definitely worth having in the back of your mind.

We can definitely draw up customer avatars/personas, especially with each edition (for each key niche) as we test what works. The good thing is that we are targeting people like us, so we can quickly get data - or at least feedback on reading habits, preferred mediums, etc.

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#65

Post by St. Gloede » August 11th, 2020, 2:56 pm

3eyes wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 2:42 pm
I'm glad we've reached the stage of getting down to nuts and bolts. Mostly Greek to me, but "discord server" sounds apt for a forum that argues interminably about most anything. :P
Haha - discoerd server is an organizing tool - a lot like slack, but with a server functioning a little like a forum, with specific channels for specific topics, etc.

After discussing with Lauren and Adam we agreed that most baseline work can be done on the form (great for traffic/content as well), but with discord for more specific work, such as designing the homepage, calls, etc.

Once the forum is up I will set up lounges for each role/function where people can volunteer, as well as a suggestion/discussion thread for the first edition, a poll on the domain and a poll on the focus (website vs. magazine). Once done we can do the actual branding, identify acquisition channels (places to spread the message), decide on the fixed sections, decide on the logo, (i have a quick one ready, created for the discord, but would prefer something better), etc.

We will also need to fix up the web version - for which we need someone with degree of dev/po/ux skills. (There is also a question of SEO, I can help here).

Once we have the first edition, we will have a pitch lounge where people come up with ideas and suggestions for the key stories (and highlighting already written material) and this is the point where we can introduce polls (and discord) and editorial decisions to complete No 1.

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#66

Post by 3eyes » August 11th, 2020, 5:03 pm

And to think that 20 years ago I was building a complicated website doing my own coding with HTML3.
:run: STILL the Gaffer!

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#67

Post by Onderhond » August 11th, 2020, 5:08 pm

3eyes wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 5:03 pm
And to think that 20 years ago I was building a complicated website doing my own coding with HTML3.
You can still do that and your site would still be better than 99% of the sites out there :p

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#68

Post by cinewest » August 11th, 2020, 6:02 pm

I'm late to chime in, but I think it's a great idea, St. Gloede, and I think I can make the time to write on various subjects, including of course films.

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#69

Post by St. Gloede » August 11th, 2020, 8:43 pm

cinewest wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 6:02 pm
I'm late to chime in, but I think it's a great idea, St. Gloede, and I think I can make the time to write on various subjects, including of course films.
Brilliant, cinewest. Love your insights!

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#70

Post by flavo5000 » August 11th, 2020, 8:45 pm

St. Gloede wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 2:47 pm
Fergenaprido wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 1:45 pm
My main concern is that this may become a self-serving product; if we're only focused on what we want to promote and getting out message out there, and not paying attention to what our target audience is actually looking for, we just end up in one giant circle jerk feeling proud and accomplished with what we've done, but no one else really cares about it and in the end we fail to meet our stated goals/intentions because we've been so focused on what we want and what we think other cinephiles want without ever really checking to see if our presumptions are true.

I hate to suggest it, mainly because my company was so stuck on ours for so long and couldn't move forward, but maybe we need to come up with a customer avatar :P
There's is always that risk, but I don't think it is a major risk, as we are all in the various target group niches, and can easily test what kind of covers, titles and topics causes interest - but definitely worth having in the back of your mind.

We can definitely draw up customer avatars/personas, especially with each edition (for each key niche) as we test what works. The good thing is that we are targeting people like us, so we can quickly get data - or at least feedback on reading habits, preferred mediums, etc.
I think the main thing to land on is the level of writing (which is one of the main things a persona would inform) which is much more important than it seems. Too low (like < 8th grade level) and it comes across as popcorn fluff. Too high and it comes across too academic, alienating a large subset of the audience (unless the goal is to only appeal to professors of film history and film critics). And if the writing is inconsistent in tone, it can lose readers. Like if I read two fairly straightforward articles followed by an in-depth film academic film criticism, it'll give me tonal whiplash. Of course, much of this can be smoothed out with good editors. :D

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#71

Post by flavo5000 » August 11th, 2020, 8:47 pm

Daviddoes wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 3:41 am
As someone who counts The New Cult Canon and 366 Weird Movies among their favorite lists, I would like to take a shot at a cult/weird movie article.
Want to try to collaborate on one? :). This is a major focus area for me too. Like if we did an article on Turkish copyright infringement movies or the films of Alejandro Jodorowsky, one of us could write the intro and a couple deeper dive reviews and the other more reviews and conclusion, something like that.

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#72

Post by St. Gloede » August 11th, 2020, 8:57 pm

flavo5000 wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 8:45 pm
St. Gloede wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 2:47 pm
Fergenaprido wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 1:45 pm
My main concern is that this may become a self-serving product; if we're only focused on what we want to promote and getting out message out there, and not paying attention to what our target audience is actually looking for, we just end up in one giant circle jerk feeling proud and accomplished with what we've done, but no one else really cares about it and in the end we fail to meet our stated goals/intentions because we've been so focused on what we want and what we think other cinephiles want without ever really checking to see if our presumptions are true.

I hate to suggest it, mainly because my company was so stuck on ours for so long and couldn't move forward, but maybe we need to come up with a customer avatar :P
There's is always that risk, but I don't think it is a major risk, as we are all in the various target group niches, and can easily test what kind of covers, titles and topics causes interest - but definitely worth having in the back of your mind.

We can definitely draw up customer avatars/personas, especially with each edition (for each key niche) as we test what works. The good thing is that we are targeting people like us, so we can quickly get data - or at least feedback on reading habits, preferred mediums, etc.
I think the main thing to land on is the level of writing (which is one of the main things a persona would inform) which is much more important than it seems. Too low (like < 8th grade level) and it comes across as popcorn fluff. Too high and it comes across too academic, alienating a large subset of the audience (unless the goal is to only appeal to professors of film history and film critics). And if the writing is inconsistent in tone, it can lose readers. Like if I read two fairly straightforward articles followed by an in-depth film academic film criticism, it'll give me tonal whiplash. Of course, much of this can be smoothed out with good editors. :D
Very true, I'll actually throw in wordcounter in the writers lounge. It is a free tool and when I train writers I often use it to force them to simplify their vocabulary. I'd say in general you want to hit 11-12th grade, as it is highly digestible, with short sentences - active and easy to follow - while still being able to explain fairly complex ideas. It depends on your audience though, and for our market, we can afford to go higher.

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#73

Post by cinewest » August 13th, 2020, 7:32 am

Have you looked at any other online movie magazines?

One that seems to have affinity is Taste of Cinema, which is not only full of lists, but reviews and other features

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#74

Post by St. Gloede » August 13th, 2020, 8:27 am

cinewest wrote:
August 13th, 2020, 7:32 am
Have you looked at any other online movie magazines?

One that seems to have affinity is Taste of Cinema, which is not only full of lists, but reviews and other features
I love Sight & Sound, but that is obviously print. (I also follow the Norwegian online magazine Montages, but that's only useful to 3% of everyone here).

I quite like Taste of Cinema from what I have seen, constantly stumble over them in google so we should definitely use them as an inspiration for our SEO game - though I thought they only did lists. (After writing this I went to their page and I saw they also have reviews, though only lists seem to be pushed on the homepage).

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#75

Post by cinewest » August 13th, 2020, 11:03 am

St. Gloede wrote:
August 13th, 2020, 8:27 am
cinewest wrote:
August 13th, 2020, 7:32 am
Have you looked at any other online movie magazines?

One that seems to have affinity is Taste of Cinema, which is not only full of lists, but reviews and other features
I love Sight & Sound, but that is obviously print. (I also follow the Norwegian online magazine Montages, but that's only useful to 3% of everyone here).

I quite like Taste of Cinema from what I have seen, constantly stumble over them in google so we should definitely use them as an inspiration for our SEO game - though I thought they only did lists. (After writing this I went to their page and I saw they also have reviews, though only lists seem to be pushed on the homepage).
I only mentioned them because they seemed to match more what goes on here, though I think there are better models (Sight & Sound and Film Movement are two of my favorites, and Film Movement also offers podcasts)

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