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Maximalist (?) cinema

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Onderhond
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Maximalist (?) cinema

#1

Post by Onderhond »

https://letterboxd.com/dozzyrok/list/maximalist-cinema/

"These are movies that employ my favorite design concept: Maximalism. I absolutely adore sensory overload and complexity, have it be in the narrative or the style. These movies try their hardest to assault all of your senses and never let you take a breath. Get ready. (Not all of these are movies I enjoy but most of them are)"

I ran into the above list a couple of days ago. I'm not sure about the term or the exact definition given, all I know is that it brings together a bunch of films that I like a lot, but had a hard time categorizing in the past. If anyone has interesting lists in the same vein, knows if this is a coined term or can add something useful (recommendations, whatever), please do so!
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#2

Post by beavis »

seems like an unofficial/made up term to me, certainly looking at that list, full of pop-culture, a few cult usual suspects and a few recent ones. For if you really want an attack on the senses, some experimental cinema (like Brakhage) should be included for instance... (unless they think that kind of experimental work is minimal because it lacks narrative)
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#3

Post by Onderhond »

Well, I definitely don't think it's meant to be an exhaustive list, but I've seen it the term pop up left and right the past couple of months and I was wondering if it was something "official".

As for Brakhage, not sure. Maybe if he'd decided to add a soundtrack, because the visuals alone don't have that much impact. It's also very much on the experimental side of cinema, so it's omission could just be because it's not at all on the user's radar. Doesn't change the fact that it brings together certain quantities in a film that have otherwise been scattered across different genres and styles. It certainly would be a useful term, even if it needs some extra work/refinement.
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#4

Post by beavis »

maybe this is something you can work with https://www.filmtheory.org/aesthetics-films/
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#5

Post by OldAle1 »

beavis wrote: February 14th, 2020, 1:17 pm seems like an unofficial/made up term to me, certainly looking at that list, full of pop-culture, a few cult usual suspects and a few recent ones. For if you really want an attack on the senses, some experimental cinema (like Brakhage) should be included for instance... (unless they think that kind of experimental work is minimal because it lacks narrative)
The little paragraph at the top that Onderhond quotes does mention "narrative or style" and there are at least 2 shorts on the list which may or may not be narrative (not familiar with them myself). I also haven't really seen enough Brakhage - and have seen little in recent years - to comment on whether he might fit the term.
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#6

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

Resident Evil: Retribution DEFINITELY falls into this category.
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#7

Post by OldAle1 »

Interesting list and concept. I haven't seen the term maximalist either but I have used the term "over-stuffed" pretty frequently myself, usually in terms of visual style but occasionally narrative as well - and we could add sound of course as well though I think it would be harder to find features with maximal or over-stuff sound design - I don't think most filmmakers or film viewers are as interested in assaults on their ears in film as they might be when going to a concert. But some of Robert Altman's films with their overlapping dialogue might seem to apply, as well as something like Hawk's His Girl Friday - if that doesn't have a maximal use of dialogue I don't know what does. And I'm sure there are films which have something similar going on with more complex uses of music and/or sound effects but I can't think of too many apart from the guy in the next paragraph.

The first name I think of when I think in these terms is missing from that list unless I missed him - Terry Gilliam. I still remember first seeing Brazil in the cinema in 1985 - and I remember a warning that it was going to be shown extra-loud as per the director's insistence - and feeling it was a total assault on the senses, certainly as much as I had experienced up to that point at 19. And I think his next film The Adventures of Baron Munchausen (curiously the list has the Zeman version of this story) is an even more perfect distillation of his cram-everything-into-the-frame-and-story aesthetic, but nearly all of his films offer a combination of fairly wild visuals, narrative complexity and just a general full-to-the-brim style.

Plenty of other examples that might be applicable -

Several of Raoul Ruiz' films - some of the later like Mistérios de Lisboa offer both visual and narrative maximalism; his earlier short Collogue de chiens while essentially very simple visually as a collection of photographs has an unquestionably maximal plot that few filmmakers would try to put forth in a 2 hour feature while Ruiz gives it to us in 22 minutes.

Beasts of the Southern Wild certainly seems to belong in the visual category.

Playtime is an obvious example, again mostly from a visual standpoint.

If Na srebrnym globie is on a list like this, then surely John Boorman's Zardoz belongs as well.

I'm not sure anything on that list is older than the 60s, and indeed when I think of this kind of cinema it's not something I think of in relation to earlier stuff so much but there are a few exceptions - Welles' Mr. Arkadin (a huge influence on Ruiz) for example and perhaps some of the Powell & Pressburger films.

But that initial paragraph in front of the list isn't really enough for me to gauge exactly what that LB user means, and I haven't seen enough of the films on his list, nor even heard of several of them, to guess whether my opinions on this subject intersect that well with the list-maker's.
Last edited by OldAle1 on February 14th, 2020, 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#8

Post by OldAle1 »

Pretentious Hipster wrote: February 14th, 2020, 3:18 pm Resident Evil: Retribution DEFINITELY falls into this category.
Yes but I'd imagine the maker of that list was excluding films that are total garbage. Oh wait no they have The External World. Well there goes that theory.
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#9

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

OldAle1 wrote: February 14th, 2020, 3:32 pm
Pretentious Hipster wrote: February 14th, 2020, 3:18 pm Resident Evil: Retribution DEFINITELY falls into this category.
Yes but I'd imagine the maker of that list was excluding films that are total garbage. Oh wait no they have The External World. Well there goes that theory.
I hate the Resident Evil films but I thought this one was a masterpiece. It does exactly what I think action films should do. The thing that ruins them is their focus on plot, which is usually abysmal. In this there's maybe 4 minutes of plot. There's an introduction scene summarizing the events so far, and then one scene of someone summarizing what's the task at hand.

It also goes into such absurd territory that I can't help but enjoy it. I mean, you have USSR zombies doing wheelies on motorcycles.
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#10

Post by Onderhond »

beavis wrote: February 14th, 2020, 2:59 pm maybe this is something you can work with https://www.filmtheory.org/aesthetics-films/
I think that's too much of an umbrella term, as it equally relates to minimalist cinema (if I read it correctly). Terms like "ultra-stylized" have the same problem.
OldAle1 wrote: February 14th, 2020, 3:28 pm and we could add sound of course as well though I think it would be harder to find features with maximal or over-stuff sound design - I don't think most filmmakers or film viewers are as interested in assaults on their ears in film as they might be when going to a concert.
Well, you're right there are fewer director/films, but I don't have to look to hard to find suitable examples. There's Noé's Climax for example. Or the films of Tsukamoto/Sogo Ishii, which go for very explicit, industrial soundtracks. Aronofsky's first is another good example, of Paap's Umfeld if you want to go the Brakhage route.

I think with terms/concepts like these, there will always be discussion and grey areas, but at least it can provide a good starting points for people who like certain characteristics that are otherwise not captured in more common categories.
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#11

Post by Torgo »

Thanks for the link Onderhond, sounds interesting and at least like a good list to look for some, well, crazy films :)
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#12

Post by 3eyes »

I probably shouldn't contribute as I haven't a clue what this is about, but anyway:

Like many people on the spectrum I have a low stimulation tolerance - the only way I can watch action/martial arts flicks is to turn off the sound. (Generally not much loss as far as dialog goes.)

Although I would have been very interested to watch La batalla de Chile, I only managed Part I because it shifted scenes so fast I couldn't follow.

Vertov's Chelevek s kino-apparatom put me to sleep - due not to boredom but to overstimulation.
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#13

Post by TalkingElvish »

Onderhond wrote: February 14th, 2020, 11:52 am https://letterboxd.com/dozzyrok/list/maximalist-cinema/

"These are movies that employ my favorite design concept: Maximalism. I absolutely adore sensory overload and complexity, have it be in the narrative or the style. These movies try their hardest to assault all of your senses and never let you take a breath. Get ready. (Not all of these are movies I enjoy but most of them are)"

I ran into the above list a couple of days ago. I'm not sure about the term or the exact definition given, all I know is that it brings together a bunch of films that I like a lot, but had a hard time categorizing in the past. If anyone has interesting lists in the same vein, knows if this is a coined term or can add something useful (recommendations, whatever), please do so!
Fantastic list, and an interesting debate about what merits inclusion. I was surprised not to see Tarsem Singh's 'The Fall' in there, which seems to be on a dazzling scale, but perhaps doesn't overwhelm the viewer as much as something like '...mother'.
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#14

Post by weirdboy »

How about Spring Breakers?

And I hate to say it, but pretty much every Bruckheimer film seems to fit this concept.


Also I feel like most of Terry Gilliam's films would fall into this category.


The other director who maybe this applies to would be Robert Altman. It is not a visual spectacle per se but I always feel a bit overwhelmed trying to process several simultaneous streams of conversation in every scene.
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#15

Post by Torgo »

Spring Breakers, sure. The Fall, oh, of course!

Bruckheimer .. I get the idea and this should not be about liking the discussed films opposed to objective criteria, but I'd say too many mainstreamish blockbusters water down the idea of the list. There's stuff like Transformers or Pacific Rim that undoubtedly is loud and would just about qualify, and then there's Crank which is a whole other level.

Not even to mention Robert Altman. Not saying you're wrong, but if you look at the visual and sonic assault of many of the films in the list and all the extremes in colors, camera angles, editing (tempo) and so on, I'd really love a list that follows this concept as much as possible instead of being too inclusive of old(er) arthouse films. No offense :)
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#16

Post by Onderhond »

Films like Spring Breakers and The Fall are fair choices. I also think the work of Gilliam, probably also Burton applies, though I won't put them up as frontrunners. As for Bruckheimer, I think it's better to make a case for certain films of Bay, rather than include all "big & loud" blockbusters.

Altman I don't see though. Haven't seen a whole lot him, but the ones I've seen are nothing like the films I'd be considering for such a list. Before you know it we'd be putting people like Woody Allen in there too, just because of his nervous banter.

On the animation side, I'd definitely want to include Hiroyuki Imaishi. Masaaki Yuasa would be a pretty save bet too. For live action, my first thought was Tsukamoto, but also Tetsuya Nakashima's later films. Maybe I should try an make a list of my own :)
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#17

Post by St. Gloede »

Certain Lucian Pintillie films, like Carnival Scenes and The Oak are perfect matches in terms of sensory overloads.
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#18

Post by Kublai Khan »

I watched Holy Mountain not too long ago. The amount of symbology thrown at the screen was overwhelming to the point where I had to turn my brain off and stop trying to decrypt it.
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#19

Post by mjf314 »

If someone makes an iCM list of good examples of maximalist cinema (preferably at least 10), I'll run it through my movie recommendations program to see what it recommends. Maybe my program can come up with more examples.
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#20

Post by Torgo »

Ok, I tried to come up with something: 33 more or less crazy films in terms of visuals, sound and tempo. I struggled to not only put Japanese wackos into it. If it helps, I can reduce it to half of the titles, or, respectively, add another 10 or 20 (which are probably less extreme).

Or Onderhond makes a list from the scratch which will be all shock and novelty. :P


It's quite possible that for some which I've seen long time ago, I just remember them as ultra-weird (such as Funky Forest ..) but they are not so much an attack on the senses. The very recent "6 Underground" by Michael Bay would totally qualify, but I don't want to have such a mess in such an early stage for recommendations, lol. Probably stuff like Gummo should be included, or is this too tame/slow? It's been a while, you know.
Oh, I think Fear and Loathing would be a great example which everybody knows, if it's not too mainstream. When you think about it, it's pretty overblown.
Or Jean-Pierre Jeunet; I decided to go with City..., Delicatessen should fit as well. Wanted to add Citizen Toxie IV, I think it was extreme; or stuff like Machine Girl or Tokyo Gore Police (!), but then, there's so many Japanese already. Hm.
I'm positive that Underground, not by Michael Bay :P but Emir Kusturica would be included, maybe even Big Fish or Tideland. But that's also a while ago for me and you could argue those aren't relentless enough .. maybe.
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#21

Post by OldAle1 »

Well I made a list of such things too - and it's about the same size as Torgo's. I started it a long time ago actually, in response to similar threads elsewhere and thinking about this a lot, and created an icm list a few months ago.

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/ever ... zzlehatch/

One of the things even this short discussion makes clear is that we're probably all thinking of the term "maximalist" at least slightly differently - no surprise. But specifically, are we talking "maximal" image (editing, colors, camera movement, etc), sound (music, overlapping dialogue, effects) narrative/plot? All three? I tend to think a lot in terms of genre qualities - films that seem to inhabit several different genres in turn, or even simultaneously - Hausu is as perfect an example as any film I've seen in this regard - but also in more general terms, films that just seem like they're trying to do a lot all at once - whether it works or not.

I have to say I can't get behind the idea of Michael Bay, or other filmmakers broadly like him in some ways (Tony Scott for example) in this category, and not because I don't like his work - I just see Bay as mostly just amping up some things that are already there: other action movies are cut 1-2 edits per second, he'll cut 3-4; other films move the camera half the time, he'll have it moving all the time. Etc. But the films themselves are just generic dumb action movies with a particular pumped-up style that are big zeros besides the flash and wow - and to me, that's not what we're talking about. Maybe to some or most others, it is, and my list will seem like it belongs in a different category, I dunno. But anyway, that's what I got today.
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#22

Post by Torgo »

It should solidify the concept that most of the films I would be considering to add also pop up in your list :)
(Tier 1: Love Exposure, Buckaroo, Scott Pilgrim; Tier 2: Fight Club, Mr. Nobody, Cloud Atlas, maybe even the big budget trainwrecks Jupiter Ascending & Valerian (seen that just recently))

As I said, I at most think of images and sound. Things that make most of the traditional movie-goers dizzy after a few minutes, ideally no matter at which point of the film they enter. (Some films take their time to go bonkers, and if it's only maximum half the time, that clearly can't be maximalist, eh?)
That's the biggest issue I have with spiraling narration and overloaded plots: they're not "physical" and direct enough for my definition. You can perfectly make a whole list of these and they'd suit another aspect of the idea, but not the one I'm looking for the most.

I agree that Hausu is a prime example since it's so over the top. Actually wanted to put it on 1 but then started with the animes. It says something that Hausu is even roughly in the same ballpark, hehe.

OldAle1 wrote: October 8th, 2020, 6:18 pm Well I made a list of such things too - and it's about the same size as Torgo's. I started it a long time ago actually, in response to similar threads elsewhere and thinking about this a lot, and created an icm list a few months ago.

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/ever ... zzlehatch/

One of the things even this short discussion makes clear is that we're probably all thinking of the term "maximalist" at least slightly differently - no surprise. But specifically, are we talking "maximal" image (editing, colors, camera movement, etc), sound (music, overlapping dialogue, effects) narrative/plot? All three? I tend to think a lot in terms of genre qualities - films that seem to inhabit several different genres in turn, or even simultaneously - Hausu is as perfect an example as any film I've seen in this regard - but also in more general terms, films that just seem like they're trying to do a lot all at once - whether it works or not.

I have to say I can't get behind the idea of Michael Bay, or other filmmakers broadly like him in some ways (Tony Scott for example) in this category, and not because I don't like his work - I just see Bay as mostly just amping up some things that are already there: other action movies are cut 1-2 edits per second, he'll cut 3-4; other films move the camera half the time, he'll have it moving all the time. Etc. But the films themselves are just generic dumb action movies with a particular pumped-up style that are big zeros besides the flash and wow - and to me, that's not what we're talking about. Maybe to some or most others, it is, and my list will seem like it belongs in a different category, I dunno. But anyway, that's what I got today.
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#23

Post by OldAle1 »

Torgo wrote: October 8th, 2020, 6:39 pm It should solidify the concept that most of the films I would be considering to add also pop up in your list :)
(Tier 1: Love Exposure, Buckaroo, Scott Pilgrim; Tier 2: Fight Club, Mr. Nobody, Cloud Atlas, maybe even the big budget trainwrecks Jupiter Ascending & Valerian (seen that just recently))

As I said, I at most think of images and sound. Things that make most of the traditional movie-goers dizzy after a few minutes, ideally no matter at which point of the film they enter. (Some films take their time to go bonkers, and if it's only maximum half the time, that clearly can't be maximalist, eh?)
That's the biggest issue I have with spiraling narration and overloaded plots: they're not "physical" and direct enough for my definition. You can perfectly make a whole list of these and they'd suit another aspect of the idea, but not the one I'm looking for the most.
Great minds think alike! At least in paragraph 1.

Paragraph 2 is where we are off a little - and this is where we might have to split what Onderhond calls maximalist, and I call "overstuffed" into two categories. I get what you're saying about how the narrative complexity isn't "physical" and direct enough - just not sure I agree for myself. It's tricky - there are some very maximally-plotted films that I wouldn't consider here - like some of Rivette's films for example - and others I might - several Raoul Ruiz works. But most of the ones that seem to apply for me are ones that are both narratively complex or crazy with multiple genres AND have a somewhat wild filmmaking style. And that narrows things down considerably - that's where someone like Gilliam comes in I think.

Anyway it's an interesting discussion and it'd make a cool little unofficial poll if there were enough of us who could put together lists. I actually have a couple of films on the list I made that I haven't seen, just because they'd been mentioned several times in this context in forum threads here and elsewhere, and because they're fairly high on my to-see list and look like they will absolutely fit. And mine is chronological, because I just don't know how to rank this category - yet.
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#24

Post by Onderhond »

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#25

Post by Torgo »

Onderhond wrote: October 8th, 2020, 7:03 pm A bit rough, but here goes:

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/favo ... onderhond/
A few on this I considered too (Take Care of my Cat, Symbol, Electric Dragon, Tokyo Fist, Shark Skin Man - all of them Jappos which already appear plenty) and a few which I haven't seen myself yet but am more than certain they deliver what they promise (Redline, Helter Skelter, Pop Skull, Vidocq, Ink ..).
Funny, just added Promare to my watchlist a couple of hours ago :sweat:

We might be on to something here.
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#26

Post by Onderhond »

Promare should be A LOT higher, but can't move positions from my phone 😁 Children of the Sea should also be on there.

There were quite a few films that were a bit borderline for the first rough draft, some of the ones I skipped would probably still make a more serious effort. The order of the film is based on my personal favorites, not so much on the relevance to the Maximalist moniker btw
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#27

Post by beavis »

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#28

Post by Torgo »

Ah, Boxer's Omen is another good call for an insane movie.
Infra-Man fits for the trashier spectrum of the concept, you could surely add one kaiju or the other to such a list. Also thought of Citizen Toxie or some other Troma stuff, but they weren't really in the flow of my other choices. (And I just did it for mjf's algorithm anyhow :D )
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#29

Post by mjf314 »

I'll run my program on each of these lists in a couple of hours when I get home.
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#30

Post by mjf314 »

Here are the top 100 recommendations for each list.

Edit: I just realized that 3/4 of these people's favorites are part of the data that my program uses, which was skewing the results, so I recalculated it. So far example, when I calculated recommendations for beavis's maximalist list, I didn't use beavis's favorites list.
Torgo
Naked Lunch
El topo
Memorîzu
Black Swan
Cowboy Bebop: Tengoku no tobira
Spiklenci slasti
The Cook, the Thief, His Wife & Her Lover
Gokudô kyôfu dai-gekijô: Gozu
FLCL
Akira
Antichrist
Prezít svuj zivot (teorie a praxe)
Pafekuto buru
I Married a Strange Person!
Mysterious Skin
The Adventures of Baron Munchausen
Eraserhead
Kids
Samâ uôzu
Careful
Delicatessen
The Neon Demon
eXistenZ
Irréversible
Sennen joyû
Adaptation.
Bin-jip
Santa sangre
Synecdoche, New York
Panique au village
The Master
L'écume des jours
Neco z Alenky
Freaked
Flight of the Conchords
Sílení
Evil Dead II
Southland Tales
Kynodontas
Shin seiki Evangelion Gekijô-ban: Air/Magokoro wo, kimi ni
Inherent Vice
Valerie a týden divu
Institute Benjamenta, or This Dream People Call Human Life
Batman: Gotham Knight
Europa
Mulholland Dr.
Fahrenheit 451
Drowning by Numbers
Tanin no kao
Kokuhaku
Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me
There Will Be Blood
The Man Who Fell to Earth
Possession
Repulsion
Twelve Monkeys
Fitzcarraldo
Ôdishon
Ghost World
Naked
Jacob's Ladder
Prospero's Books
Tokyo Fist
Storytelling
Moonrise Kingdom
Blue Velvet
The Big Lebowski
The Limits of Control
Wild at Heart
Trash Humpers
Quasi at the Quackadero
They Live
Moznosti dialogu
Gummo
Holy Motors
Cowards Bend the Knee or The Blue Hands
Oldeuboi
Funny People
Toki o kakeru shôjo
Perfume: The Story of a Murderer
Punishment Park
Forbidden Zone
Jisatsu sâkuru
Shame
Faust
Watership Down
The Plague Dogs
A Zed & Two Noughts
The Royal Tenenbaums
The Heart of the World
Bom yeoreum gaeul gyeoul geurigo bom
Fehérlófia
28 Days Later...
Avalon
Ravenous
The Rules of Attraction
Jigoku de naze warui
Requiem for a Dream
Where the Wild Things Are
Trainspotting
OldAle1
Black Swan
Adaptation.
There Will Be Blood
Twelve Monkeys
Enter the Void
Moonrise Kingdom
Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)
Tetsuo
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Mulholland Dr.
Memento
Naked
The Matrix
Mononoke-hime
Blue Velvet
The Master
Brazil
The Royal Tenenbaums
Akira
Pi
Her
The Big Lebowski
Trainspotting
Requiem for a Dream
Kill Bill: Vol. 1
The Tree of Life
Oldeuboi
Kokuhaku
Ghost World
The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou
Full Metal Jacket
Bom yeoreum gaeul gyeoul geurigo bom
No Country for Old Men
Pulp Fiction
Punch-Drunk Love
Shame
L'écume des jours
La cité des enfants perdus
Se7en
Delicatessen
Reservoir Dogs
Donnie Darko
The Shining
Breaking the Waves
Melancholia
Le fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain
La montaña sagrada
Antichrist
Monty Python and the Holy Grail
Sílení
Mysterious Skin
Children of Men
Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy
Drive
It's Such a Beautiful Day
American Beauty
Cidade de Deus
Shaun of the Dead
The Cook, the Thief, His Wife & Her Lover
Eraserhead
Sin City
Boogie Nights
Fargo
The Grand Budapest Hotel
Kynodontas
Sen to Chihiro no kamikakushi
Rushmore
Naked Lunch
Dogville
The Graduate
Bin-jip
Pafekuto buru
The Thin Red Line
Happiness
Primer
Dancer in the Dark
Brand Upon the Brain! A Remembrance in 12 Chapters
Gummo
Inception
Exit Through the Gift Shop
The Deer Hunter
The Prestige
True Romance
Inglourious Basterds
A Clockwork Orange
Das weiße Band - Eine deutsche Kindergeschichte
Shin seiki Evangelion Gekijô-ban: Air/Magokoro wo, kimi ni
2001: A Space Odyssey
Gangs of New York
Inherent Vice
Superbad
Time Bandits
Life of Brian
Evil Dead II
The Florida Project
Tanin no kao
Spring Breakers
Flash Gordon
Platoon
Chung Hing sam lam
Onderhond
Black Swan
Kokuhaku
FLCL
Panique au village
Sin City
Flight of the Conchords
Kill Bill: Vol. 1
Fight Club
The Fall
Twelve Monkeys
Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)
Oldeuboi
Donnie Darko
Kill Bill: Vol. 2
Samâ uôzu
Akira
The Nightmare Before Christmas
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
[Rec]
Bom yeoreum gaeul gyeoul geurigo bom
Mysterious Skin
28 Days Later...
Memento
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Eraserhead
Irréversible
The Matrix
Izo
Drive
Avatar
Sennen joyû
The Dark Knight
True Romance
Reservoir Dogs
Begotten
El laberinto del fauno
Perfume: The Story of a Murderer
Ôdishon
Léon
Se7en
Inglourious Basterds
Toki o kakeru shôjo
Suzumiya Haruhi no shôshitsu
Snatch
Platoon
Memorîzu
I Married a Strange Person!
The Wrestler
Speed Racer
Moonrise Kingdom
Prospero's Books
Mulholland Dr.
Gummo
Full Metal Jacket
District 9
Cowboy Bebop: Tengoku no tobira
V for Vendetta
Mononoke-hime
There Will Be Blood
Shaun of the Dead
Cidade de Deus
Django Unchained
Bin-jip
Big Fish
I'm Here
American History X
Adaptation.
L'écume des jours
Der Untergang
Pafekuto buru
Inception
Batman: Gotham Knight
The Animatrix
Bobby Yeah
The Game
Being John Malkovich
21 Grams
Children of Men
Clerks
Antichrist
El topo
Predestination
Koroshiya 1
Hotaru no haka
La haine
Brand Upon the Brain! A Remembrance in 12 Chapters
Watchmen
Team America: World Police
Jacob's Ladder
Wo hu cang long
Miller's Crossing
Toy Story 3
The Big Lebowski
Papurika
Aliens
No Country for Old Men
The Prestige
Where the Wild Things Are
Synecdoche, New York
The Descent
beavis
Begotten
Izo
Dog Star Man: Part I
The Pillow Book
La ville des pirates
Enter the Void
Prospero's Books
A Zed & Two Noughts
Antichrist
Dog Star Man: Part IV
Naked Lunch
Tenshi no tamago
Dog Star Man
To meteoro vima tou pelargou
Dog Star Man: Part III
L'hypothèse du tableau volé
Wax, or the Discovery of Television Among the Bees
Kanashimi no Beradonna
Sanatorium pod klepsydra
Spiklenci slasti
Jauja
Malpertuis
Valerie a týden divu
Southland Tales
The Limits of Control
Numéro deux
Drowning by Numbers
The Master
He liu
Un homme qui dort
The Cook, the Thief, His Wife & Her Lover
Careful
La planète sauvage
Eraserhead
Jigoku de naze warui
Inherent Vice
Faust
Santa sangre
Prezít svuj zivot (teorie a praxe)
Deep End
Pi
Prelude: Dog Star Man
Dog Star Man: Part II
Sud pralad
Ryakushô renzoku shasatsuma
Matka Joanna od aniolów
The Saddest Music in the World
Herz aus Glas
The Falls
Gummo
Red Road
Avalon
Welt am Draht
The Square
Cowards Bend the Knee or The Blue Hands
Sånger från andra våningen
Valkoinen peura
Bobby Yeah
Le révélateur
Sweet Movie
Profondo rosso
Tanin no kao
Demonlover
Suspiria
Gwendoline
Shura
Videodrome
Tian bian yi duo yun
Pola X
Dong
Unser täglich Brot
Krysar
Decasia
La pianiste
Fehérlófia
Dans ma peau
Play for Today: Penda's Fen
Post Tenebras Lux
Mind Game
Leviathan
Bu san
Combat d'amour en songe
Code inconnu: Récit incomplet de divers voyages
De fem benspænd
Sombre
Crash
Resolution
Rembrandt's J'Accuse...!
Nemuru otoko
Bad Lieutenant
Zhantai
Údolí vcel
O Dragão da Maldade contra o Santo Guerreiro
Amer
Safe
L'inconnu du lac
The Shout
Umi yori mo mada fukaku
Happy End
A Serious Man
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Torgo
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#31

Post by Torgo »

Thank you very much, mjf! What a cool feature :)
When I was going through the top recommendations for my list it almost seemed like my own voting history served as foundation. :D That's how close they are. Many, many runners-up, although (understandably) a big part of the lot were other films by the listed directors or otherwise involved studios/persons. And tons of stuff which makes up my watchlist, partly for years now, but how would your program know that? :sweat: It works like a charm.

One title I didn't think of at all and hasn't got the blown up visuals of my other mentions, but indeed is exploding of nonsense and fidgetiness: Belgian animation Panique au Village (2009)
The only title from the 100 which I never heard of, doesn't stand on my watchlist or on followed ICM lists so far is this also animated film which looks completely demented just by the IMDb gallery. I Married a Strange Person! (1997) :lol: Great!

And I'd say just one film doesn't fit my formula at all: Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter... and Spring; on the other hand, taking things to the extreme often leads you to just the opposite end of the curve. (And I adore Kim Ki-Duk, so there's that.)


btw OldAle's top recommendations look signifcantly more like stuff I'd call my personal favorite type of films. My own top 33 list was maybe a bit too stripped of substance for style. :turned:
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#32

Post by Torgo »

I love how Onderhond probably has the wackiest, Japanese obscure foundation list yet got so many Hollywood films back in return, LOL.

Interesting that OldAle got Anchorman; I was indeed thinking about comedy (coming from Terry Gilliam) and Anchorman and Tropic Thunder were two movies that came to my mind in terms of their absurdity. But for me that would lead too far away from the goal. Also, Flash Gordon, lol. .. if you upped the campiness just a bit, very much possible.

Seeing The Descent in Onderhond's recs: While taking a walk, I also thought about The Hills Have Eyes (remake), Frontier(s), maybe the new Evil Dead and of course Martyrs. Horror with elements of terror. It could be possible for my own definition yet I always feel you have to give up some of the maximalist technique if you want to still serve your desired genre.
He also got Bobby Yeah back, a little animation short film that truly impressed me.

Also two of you got Begotten as top rec, a cult film which many view as total rubbish. Well.


Oh, how exciting those lists are! :sweat:
Last edited by Torgo on October 9th, 2020, 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#33

Post by mjf314 »

@Torgo: I just ran the program on your list of favorites, in case you're interested. I excluded your checks from the results.
Spoiler
Mystery Science Theater 3000
Dekalog
Marketa Lazarová
Mephisto
Il sorpasso
Opening Night
Gu ling jie shao nian sha ren shi jian
Le feu follet
Khane-ye doust kodjast?
3 Women
Le procès
Rosetta
Twin Peaks
Code inconnu: Récit incomplet de divers voyages
La collectionneuse
Europa
Mon oncle d'Amérique
Nazarín
Jodorowsky's Dune
Szerelem
Kes
Mon oncle
Le souffle au coeur
Nóz w wodzie
Faust
Sans toit ni loi
Les amants du Pont-Neuf
Shoah
Mauvais sang
Tini zabutykh predkiv
Faces
Amator
A Zed & Two Noughts
Les demoiselles de Rochefort
Pixote: A Lei do Mais Fraco
Copie conforme
Utvandrarna
Matka Joanna od aniolów
La maman et la putain
Kanal
Limelight
My Dinner with Andre
Love Streams
Un homme et une femme
Berlin Alexanderplatz
Heimat - Eine deutsche Chronik
F for Fake
Dupa dealuri
Deus e o Diabo na Terra do Sol
Az ötödik pecsét
La cérémonie
Trust
Shin seiki Evangelion Gekijô-ban: Air/Magokoro wo, kimi ni
Buta to gunkan
Le doulos
Point Blank
Ju Dou
En kärlekshistoria
La promesse
Punishment Park
Slacker
The Killing of a Chinese Bookie
I'm Not There.
Alice in den Städten
Horí, má panenko
Der amerikanische Freund
Twin Peaks
Paterson
They Shoot Horses, Don't They?
Sílení
Mahanagar
Il posto
Yuki yukite, shingun
Xia nü
Kocár do Vídne
Fahrenheit 451
Prospero's Books
O Pagador de Promessas
Dharmaga tongjoguro kan kkadalgun
Údolí vcel
37°2 le matin
Mat i syn
The Simpsons
Metropolitan
Moya lyubov
Otoshiana
L'immortelle
Zhantai
Badkonake sefid
Shadows
Morte a Venezia
Bloody Sunday
Csillagosok, katonák
George Washington
All That Heaven Allows
Yukinojô henge
Burden of Dreams
Les glaneurs et la glaneuse
O Lucky Man!
The Salt of the Earth
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#34

Post by mjf314 »

Torgo wrote: October 8th, 2020, 11:50 pm I love how Onderhond probably has the wackiest, Japanese obscure foundation list yet got so many Hollywood films back in return, LOL.
If a film is too obscure, and none of the users in my data have favorited the film, then it has no effect on the results. If Onderhond had more well-known Japanese films on his list, there probably would have been more Japanese films in the results.
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Torgo
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#35

Post by Torgo »

Ah, that makes sense.
mjf314 wrote: October 9th, 2020, 12:07 am @Torgo: I just ran the program on your list of favorites, in case you're interested. I excluded your checks from the results.
Spoiler
Mystery Science Theater 3000
Dekalog
Marketa Lazarová
Mephisto
Il sorpasso
Opening Night
Gu ling jie shao nian sha ren shi jian
Le feu follet
Khane-ye doust kodjast?
3 Women
Le procès
Rosetta
Twin Peaks
Code inconnu: Récit incomplet de divers voyages
La collectionneuse
Europa
Mon oncle d'Amérique
Nazarín
Jodorowsky's Dune
Szerelem
Kes
Mon oncle
Le souffle au coeur
Nóz w wodzie
Faust
Sans toit ni loi
Les amants du Pont-Neuf
Shoah
Mauvais sang
Tini zabutykh predkiv
Faces
Amator
A Zed & Two Noughts
Les demoiselles de Rochefort
Pixote: A Lei do Mais Fraco
Copie conforme
Utvandrarna
Matka Joanna od aniolów
La maman et la putain
Kanal
Limelight
My Dinner with Andre
Love Streams
Un homme et une femme
Berlin Alexanderplatz
Heimat - Eine deutsche Chronik
F for Fake
Dupa dealuri
Deus e o Diabo na Terra do Sol
Az ötödik pecsét
La cérémonie
Trust
Shin seiki Evangelion Gekijô-ban: Air/Magokoro wo, kimi ni
Buta to gunkan
Le doulos
Point Blank
Ju Dou
En kärlekshistoria
La promesse
Punishment Park
Slacker
The Killing of a Chinese Bookie
I'm Not There.
Alice in den Städten
Horí, má panenko
Der amerikanische Freund
Twin Peaks
Paterson
They Shoot Horses, Don't They?
Sílení
Mahanagar
Il posto
Yuki yukite, shingun
Xia nü
Kocár do Vídne
Fahrenheit 451
Prospero's Books
O Pagador de Promessas
Dharmaga tongjoguro kan kkadalgun
Údolí vcel
37°2 le matin
Mat i syn
The Simpsons
Metropolitan
Moya lyubov
Otoshiana
L'immortelle
Zhantai
Badkonake sefid
Shadows
Morte a Venezia
Bloody Sunday
Csillagosok, katonák
George Washington
All That Heaven Allows
Yukinojô henge
Burden of Dreams
Les glaneurs et la glaneuse
O Lucky Man!
The Salt of the Earth
Off topic
Thanks again, mjf! :)
I have to admit my ICM favorites are rather a collection of films that impressed me in terms of filmmaking, things I somehow adore and personally think to be special and which I wanted to discover more of through ICM. So, basically everything "maximalist" constituted a thumb up and some of the imo more beautiful, absurd, depressing, creative works. It's a cool list and results in fantastic recommendations. 75% of your returned results are high on my watchlist whatsoever, some will climb now (I saved the list as an Excel).
The truth is that many of my actual favorite films, those I like the most, are often painfully trivial and more of a reordered IMDb Top 250, lol. I always understood ICM more of a means to explore the more interesting fields which weren't provided by IMDb top lists anymore. That I personally love typical millennial fodder such as Fight Club or The Dark Knight seemed to be of so little interest a) for me to tell others and b) for others to read about. Popular cinema will find its way one way or another. Let's work together to get to the rest!

[/end of Off topic]
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#36

Post by outdoorcats »

Onderhond wrote: February 14th, 2020, 11:52 am https://letterboxd.com/dozzyrok/list/maximalist-cinema/

"These are movies that employ my favorite design concept: Maximalism. I absolutely adore sensory overload and complexity, have it be in the narrative or the style. These movies try their hardest to assault all of your senses and never let you take a breath. Get ready. (Not all of these are movies I enjoy but most of them are)"

I ran into the above list a couple of days ago. I'm not sure about the term or the exact definition given, all I know is that it brings together a bunch of films that I like a lot, but had a hard time categorizing in the past. If anyone has interesting lists in the same vein, knows if this is a coined term or can add something useful (recommendations, whatever), please do so!
Some Rolf de Heer films come to mind, such as Encounter at Raven's Gate. John Hyams as well, with Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning being probably the best example.

Also, the cult oddity The Visitor (1979) and Greenaway's A Zed and Two Noughts, maybe.

Baz Luhrmann films as well, although personally he is my least favorite director of all time (all of his films that I've seen are in my bottom 10), definitely fits the bill I think.

If you extend the basic idea of maximalism to story rather than aesthetics, some great examples might be Love Exposure or Inherent Vice (films that are packed with insane genre gear-shifting). Perhaps other good examples are escaping me at the moment.
Last edited by outdoorcats on October 9th, 2020, 3:52 am, edited 3 times in total.

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#37

Post by prodigalgodson »

A ridiculous number of experimental films would qualify, but I'll leave well enough alone.
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#38

Post by beavis »

mjf314 wrote: October 8th, 2020, 10:53 pm Here are the top 100 recommendations for each list.
Interesting, I have 7 unseen from the 100 you get on my list. Most interesting is the Moorhead and Benson one. I have three of their movies in my collection, but haven't gotten round to them yet. High expectations of course, from what I've seen in small clips it is pretty amazing stuff.

Not strange to get a lot of Ruiz and Greenaway back with the kind of (mostly) arthouse madness I had listed

btw I would love for you to do a similar run on my actual list of favorites (and return it as clean imdb-links so I can make an ICM-list from them), no rush of course, and only if you've got time for it, just curious :)
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#39

Post by Onderhond »

outdoorcats wrote: October 9th, 2020, 3:35 am Some Rolf de Heer films come to mind, such as Encounter at Raven's Gate. John Hyams as well, with Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning being probably the best example.
I've seen one de Heer film (Alexandra's Project), I'd put it very far down the list though.
outdoorcats wrote: October 9th, 2020, 3:35 am Baz Luhrmann films as well, although personally he is my least favorite director of all time (all of his films that I've seen are in my bottom 10), definitely fits the bill I think.
Oh absolutely, Luhrmann is a no-brainer :)
outdoorcats wrote: October 9th, 2020, 3:35 am If you extend the basic idea of maximalism to story rather than aesthetics, some great examples might be Love Exposure or Inherent Vice (films that are packed with insane genre gear-shifting). Perhaps other good examples are escaping me at the moment.
I don't really lean into the direction of story, but maybe that's because it's not one of my big interests. On the other hand, when talking about minimalism people don't include JCVD films either ;)
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#40

Post by mjf314 »

beavis wrote: October 9th, 2020, 7:21 am btw I would love for you to do a similar run on my actual list of favorites (and return it as clean imdb-links so I can make an ICM-list from them), no rush of course, and only if you've got time for it, just curious :)
Ok, I'll do it later today.
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