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iCMFF3: Programmer's Thread

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Re: iCMFF3: Programmer's Thread

#201

Post by outdoorcats » October 10th, 2019, 12:04 am

Since we're only picking one, sure.

(of course, when picking titles for the smaller sections we may have to raise the threshold to narrow down the more popular categories)

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#202

Post by Fergenaprido » October 10th, 2019, 5:11 pm

I'll pick Rafiki as my choice for the main slate ballot.

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#203

Post by outdoorcats » October 11th, 2019, 11:35 pm

beavis: Nuestro tiempo
Fergenaprido: Rafiki
flaiky: Madeline's Madeline
Ivan: Closeness
outdoorcats: 3/4
sacmersault: Devil's Freedom
+
Abacus: Small Enough to Jail
Ash is Purest White
Columbus
Cuba and the Cameraman
Custody
I Am Not Your Negro
It's Only the End of the World
The Rider
Sunday's Illness
Support the Girls


Long Day's Journey Into Night
Last edited by outdoorcats on October 13th, 2019, 9:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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#204

Post by Fergenaprido » October 12th, 2019, 4:19 am

outdoorcats wrote:
October 11th, 2019, 11:35 pm
beavis: Nuestro tiempo
Fergenaprido: Rafiki
flaiky: ?
Ivan: ?
outdoorcats: 3/4
sacmersault: Devil's Freedom
+
Abacus: Small Enough to Jail
Custody
Ash is Purest White
Long Day's Journey Into Night
Cuba and the Cameraman
I Am Not Your Negro
It's Only the End of the World
Sunday's Illness
Support the Girls
The Rider

If we chose to remove Long Day's Journey Into Night, Columbus would take it's place with an average of 2.5. What does everyone else besides me think about LDJIN?
Haven't seen it, but I'm fine with it being included in the ballot and letting the jury decide if they want to watch it or not.

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#205

Post by beavis » October 12th, 2019, 4:50 am

Amongst people i know it seems to be the movie of the year, from that point you could argue both that it should be included and should be excluded, that makes it to me something you should decide as organizer.

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#206

Post by flaiky » October 12th, 2019, 10:31 am

I said from the start that it was already really popular here, so I agree with cutting it.

I like the solution for jury voting, but how about we all pick two films for the ballot, just so there is a bit more choice on offer?
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#207

Post by Ivan0716 » October 13th, 2019, 3:19 pm

Closeness will be my choice.

Long Day's Journey out for me.

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#208

Post by outdoorcats » October 13th, 2019, 8:48 pm

Long Day's Journey - 3 out, 1 in, 1 undecided. I'll take it out and replace it with Columbus.

@flaiky - For expediency's sake let's just pick one this year. What would be your pick?

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#209

Post by flaiky » October 13th, 2019, 9:27 pm

Okay, I'll go with Madeline's Madeline.
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#210

Post by outdoorcats » October 13th, 2019, 9:29 pm

:cheers: :banana:

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#211

Post by Ivan0716 » October 19th, 2019, 6:30 pm

Main Slate
Ash is Purest White
Custody
Closeness
It's Only the End of the World
I Am Not Your Negro
Sunday's Illness
Madeline's Madeline
Columbus
Rafiki
The Rider

These sections are pretty much set:
Asia
1. Angels Wear White [China] - 9
2. Marlina the Murder [Indonesia] - 8
3. An Elephant Sitting Still [China] - 7
4. Foxtrot [Israel] - 7

Documentaries
1. Shirkers - 10
2. Cuba and the Cameraman - 8
3. LA92 - 7
4. Abacus - 6

LGBT
1. Diamantino - 9
2. Lovesong - 6
3. Knife + Heart - 6
4. The Heiresses - 6

Indie
1. Support the Girls - 8
2. Thunder Road - 7
3. Ray & Liz - 7
4. Ex Libris - 6


Still decisions to be made:
Animation
1. The Wolf House - 6
2. Okko's Inn - 5
3. Another Day of Life - 5
4. Have a Nice Day OR Mary and the Witch's Flower OR The Girl Without Hands - 4

Latin America
1. Our Time - 6
2. Rey - 6
3. Rush Hour - 6
4. El Amparo OR Endless Poetry OR The Untamed OR Tigers Are Not Afraid OR The Distinguished Citizen - 5

Dawn
1. Beast - 6
2. One Cut of the Dead - 6
3. Spoor - 6
Keep an Eye Out OR The Untamed OR Tigers Are Not Afraid - 5

Euro:
On Body and Soul [Hungary] - 9
Montparnasse Bienvenue [France] - 7
A Woman's Life OR Lover for a Day [France] - 6

+ one of the following (The rest will form the Arthouse section or whatever we decide to call it)
Winter's Brothers [Denmark] - 8
3/4 [Bulgaria] - 7
Quién te cantará [Spain] - 7
A Gentle Creature [Russia] - 6
I Do Not Care If We Go Down in History as Barbarians [Romania] - 6
Last edited by Ivan0716 on October 21st, 2019, 7:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

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#212

Post by Ivan0716 » October 19th, 2019, 6:33 pm

So, things to discuss:
1. Do we want docs in non-doc sections?
2. Do we care if the arthouse section is all European films?
3. How to resolve ties when films have identical voting stats?

Whatever the case, we'll have no problems fitting everything 6+ into all the categories, other than the ones we decide to drop(docs, French films).


And can someone confirm the availability of The Green Fog?

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#213

Post by maxwelldeux » October 19th, 2019, 8:03 pm

Ivan0716 wrote:
October 19th, 2019, 6:33 pm
So, things to discuss:
1. Do we want docs in non-doc sections?
2. Do we care if the arthouse section is all European films?
3. How to resolve ties when films have identical voting stats?

Whatever the case, we'll have no problems fitting everything 6+ into all the categories, other than the ones we decide to drop(docs, French films).


And can someone confirm the availability of The Green Fog?
Outsider's perspective...

1. Personally, I like docs and would play in more sections with them, but I see both sides.
2. Nope
3. I'd be a little surprised if we'd get too many identical voting patterns, but one option would be to break ties with programmer votes. Or weight juror's votes higher.

And Green Fog is well-seeded on PTP, so definitely available.

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#214

Post by Ivan0716 » October 19th, 2019, 8:33 pm

maxwelldeux wrote:
October 19th, 2019, 8:03 pm
3. I'd be a little surprised if we'd get too many identical voting patterns, but one option would be to break ties with programmer votes. Or weight juror's votes higher.

And Green Fog is well-seeded on PTP, so definitely available.
There might be some confusion here, I think you're talking about the award voting process once the festival commences? What I meant was ties in the programmer votes when deciding the films for the categories(all the ORs in my post above). Sorry if it's my wording.

Thanks for checking, I might be able to watch it before we finalise the selection, should help a bit with the decision making.

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#215

Post by maxwelldeux » October 19th, 2019, 8:39 pm

Ivan0716 wrote:
October 19th, 2019, 8:33 pm
maxwelldeux wrote:
October 19th, 2019, 8:03 pm
3. I'd be a little surprised if we'd get too many identical voting patterns, but one option would be to break ties with programmer votes. Or weight juror's votes higher.

And Green Fog is well-seeded on PTP, so definitely available.
There might be some confusion here, I think you're talking about the award voting process once the festival commences? What I meant was ties in the programmer votes when deciding the films for the categories(all the ORs in my post above). Sorry if it's my wording.
Yep - I was thinking about the festival. My bad.

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#216

Post by outdoorcats » October 20th, 2019, 2:42 pm

Hold on, I got a PMed set of votes from Roger. Sending them to you Ivan.

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#217

Post by outdoorcats » October 20th, 2019, 3:13 pm

A lot to break down!

One thing to factor in is that this will be the last year 2016 films are eligible, so when struggling to make choices sometimes just go with the less recent choice as the more recent one can be included the following year. I haven't seen either A Woman's Life or Lover for a Day, but going by dates alone I would personally pick A Woman's Life.

My local film festival always puts documentaries in non-documentary sections. I don't see it as any different than putting Latin American films in the Just Before Dawn section, animated films in the Asian section, etc. I don't mind postponing Ex Libris if we're trying to cut down on numbers overall, but I definitely think Another Day of Life should stay in the Animation section (haven't seen, but from reviews it seems like it's more of a mix of documentary and docudrama animated scenes than "pure" documentary anyway).

I don't mind if the arthouse is all European films personally. However I'm not sure the titles we have are significantly more challenging or "arthouse" than any other film on the list. 3/4 is just a slice-of-life film and Quien te cantara is just a very well directed identity drama. Maybe just rename this section "Great Directors," "Masters of Cinema," or "Auteur Visions" this year? That would fit the four titles you listed a bit better IMO. (if so, Ex Libris, with 6 points, could just as well replace The Green Fog, with 5).

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#218

Post by Ivan0716 » October 20th, 2019, 4:31 pm

Updates:
1. Devil's Freedom makes way for Rafiki on the main slate with new votes from Roger and xianjiro. Do we want to retain Devil's Freedom? It only has 3 points from the 1 voter, but it didn't miss the top 9 by much. For the spot freed up in the LGBT section, we can move The Heiresses there from Latin America, with it being the only remaining candidate with 6 points.

2. When I went through the spreadsheet earlier I noticed a vote for Abacus: Small Enough to Jail under my column. Not sure how it got there, I haven't seen the film. Maybe I just fat-fingered it, but it's also possible that someone voted in the wrong column(please check). I've removed the vote for now, and with a 6 Abacus no longer has a guaranteed spot in the docs section. It's tied with Rush Hour and Ex Libris, but we can simply keep those two in their respective sections and Abacus in docs.

3. I saw I Do Not Care If We Go Down in History as Barbarians today, I'm going to give it full support, meaning it's now on a 6.

With it being another Euro/"Arthouse" film, it simplifies things quite a bit for those two sections, now Euro will have:
On Body and Soul [Hungary] - 9
Montparnasse Bienvenue [France] - 7
A Woman's Life OR Lover for a Day [France] - 6

+ one of the following (The rest will form the arthouse section or whatever we decide to call it)
Winter's Brothers [Denmark] - 8
3/4 [Bulgaria] - 7
Quién te cantará [Spain] - 7
A Gentle Creature [Russia] - 6
I Do Not Care If We Go Down in History as Barbarians [Romania] - 6

Again, not sure on availability(I saw it on MUBI UK).

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#219

Post by St. Gloede » October 20th, 2019, 10:25 pm

I have no say in this, but as I tend to (granted, I did not do so last year) judge the arthouse selection I really hope it is kept. Surely there are 3-5 films (we did not always fill up the categories in previous years) that in some way fit the label, be they experimental, minimalistic, surreal or otherwise succeeding/impressing with their non-narrative attributes.

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#220

Post by sacmersault » October 21st, 2019, 2:41 am

From what I understand everyone's saying:
-I don't have an opinion on Arthouse and Euro. I've seen too few
-On Documentaries, I think it's fine if they fit in other categories
-Ex Libris should stay in the Indie section
-About Abacus: In the top it says it has 9, even if you take 1 one that's still 8, enough to stay on
-For Animation, I think Another Day of Life should stay (is it available?) and Mary and the Witch's Flower should go in
-Rush Hour should stay in Latam section
-Dawn section seems kind of weak (and that's usually the section that gets the most interest)(maybe keep more films in?)
-I would love if we could keep Devil's Freedom in. It could fit into Docs, Latam & Dawn

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#221

Post by Fergenaprido » October 21st, 2019, 3:20 am

outdoorcats wrote:
October 20th, 2019, 2:42 pm
Hold on, I got a PMed set of votes from Roger. Sending them to you Ivan.
Are Roger and xian's votes the final ones, or will we still receive more?

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#222

Post by Ivan0716 » October 21st, 2019, 7:44 am

It seems we've decided to include docs in other categories, so I've gone ahead cleaned up my previous post

If we're going with earlier years in case of ties we'll have our final film for Animation and Dawn in The Girl Without Hands and The Untamed, but we'll still get a 3-way tie in Latin America between El Amparo, Endless Poetry and The Distinguished Citizen. Vote on it?

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#223

Post by beavis » October 21st, 2019, 2:37 pm

Reminder that Rey would be perfect for arthouse...

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#224

Post by Ivan0716 » October 21st, 2019, 3:14 pm

beavis wrote:
October 21st, 2019, 2:37 pm
Reminder that Rey would be perfect for arthouse...
We can limit it to just one French film in Euro to make room for Rey in arthouse.

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#225

Post by Fergenaprido » October 21st, 2019, 4:59 pm

From Ivan's proposal...

For animation, I'd go with Wolf House, Okko's Inn, Another Day in the Life, and Girl Without Hands (2016) (picked the last one over Mary and the Witch's Flower (2018) and Have a Nice Day (2017) due to the year)

For LGBT, I'd rather see Heartstone (5 pts from 2 viewers) than The Heiresses (6 pts from 4 viewers), as it had a much better average, and it's from 2016. The Heiresses still has 2 more years to be featured here.

For Euro, I'd choose 3/4 or Winter Brothers. Both are less arthousey I think.

For Dawn I don't really have an opinion. The only one I've seen is Au poste! (Keep an Eye Out) and that didn't really feel like a horror film to me, more of a black comedy, plus it's from 2018. Perhaps pick The Untamed since it's 2016 and Tigers are Not Afraid, is 2017 and can be featured next year.

For LatAm, the remaining 3 are all from 2016 (El Amparo, Endless Poetry, Distinguished Citizen). I've seen Amparo and Citizen, and I'd throw my support behind El Amparo. Haven't seen Endless Poetry, so can't comment. Maybe this is one category we go with 5 films instead of 4?

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#226

Post by flaiky » October 21st, 2019, 5:09 pm

I think Winter Brothers would be perfect for the Arthouse section, and definitely Barbarians. Maybe just those 2 and Rey?
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#227

Post by Ivan0716 » October 21st, 2019, 5:40 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
October 21st, 2019, 4:59 pm
For LatAm, the remaining 3 are all from 2016 (El Amparo, Endless Poetry, Distinguished Citizen). I've seen Amparo and Citizen, and I'd throw my support behind El Amparo. Haven't seen Endless Poetry, so can't comment. Maybe this is one category we go with 5 films instead of 4?
Agree regarding The Heiresses.

If we're going allowed 5 films for some categories, I'd suggest Docs and Euro: Rush Hour, which looks like a globetrotter to me, can be moved to Docs and we can keep all 3 of those in LatAm.

How's this?

Documentaries
1. Shirkers - 10
2. Cuba and the Cameraman - 8
3. LA92 - 7
4. Abacus - 6
(5.) Rush Hour - 6

LGBT
1. Diamantino - 9
2. Lovesong - 6
3. Knife + Heart - 6
4. Heartstone - 5

Animation
1. The Wolf House - 6
2. Okko's Inn - 5
3. Another Day of Life - 5
4. The Girl Without Hands - 4

Latin America
1. Our Time - 6
2. El Amparo - 5
3. Endless Poetry - 5
4. The Distinguished Citizen - 5

Dawn
1. Beast - 6
2. One Cut of the Dead - 6
3. Spoor - 6
4. The Untamed - 5

Euro
1. On Body and Soul [Hungary] - 9
2. Quién te cantará - 7
3. 3/4 [Bulgaria] - 7
4. Montparnasse Bienvenue [France] - 7
(5.) A Woman's Life [France] - 6

Arthouse
1. Winter's Brothers [Denmark] - 8
2. Rey - 6
3. A Gentle Creature - 6
4. I Do Not Care If We Go Down in History as Barbarians - 6
Last edited by Ivan0716 on October 21st, 2019, 5:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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#228

Post by beavis » October 21st, 2019, 5:41 pm

Winter Brothers is indeed more arthouse than just "euro", easy change with quen te cantara.

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#229

Post by beavis » October 21st, 2019, 5:46 pm

Is Dawn only horror, or more cult in general? If so, au poste is a perfect fit, while spoor is more of a euro arthouse thriller. It wasn't my thing really, but the writer of the book just won the nobel price for literature, so there might be some interest....

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#230

Post by Ivan0716 » October 21st, 2019, 5:46 pm

Which of Quién te cantará or A Gentle Creature do you want to move to Euro for Winter Brothers?

Saw Spoor today, agree it's not Dawn material.

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#231

Post by beavis » October 21st, 2019, 5:55 pm

Ivan0716 wrote:
October 21st, 2019, 5:46 pm
Which of Quién te cantará or A Gentle Creature do you want to move to Euro for Winter Brothers?
I had already added that Quién te cantará is the obvious choice, nothing too arthousy about it, while a gentle creature has a director with more stature and also a bit of a weird ending.

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#232

Post by flaiky » October 21st, 2019, 5:57 pm

Ivan0716 wrote:
October 21st, 2019, 5:40 pm
(5.) Rush Hour - 6
I just looked this up, and was surprised to see a 3 rating in my column. Sorry but I've never even heard of it. Sounds interesting, but it only has a total of 3 now so isn't eligible this year.

(Weird that we've encountered 2 phantom ratings)

I believe the Dawn category is basically genre/cult films, yes, not just horror.
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#233

Post by Ivan0716 » October 21st, 2019, 5:59 pm

beavis wrote:
October 21st, 2019, 5:55 pm
Ivan0716 wrote:
October 21st, 2019, 5:46 pm
Which of Quién te cantará or A Gentle Creature do you want to move to Euro for Winter Brothers?
I had already added that Quién te cantará is the obvious choice, nothing too arthousy about it, while a gentle creature has a director with more stature and also a bit of a weird ending.
Yep, I saw, was it a stealth edit or did I just somehow miss that the first time around. :lol:

I thought Quién te cantará had the arthouse aesthetic going for it, but "arthouse" is such a loose term to me so I don't care to make any decisions.

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#234

Post by flaiky » October 21st, 2019, 6:01 pm

I'm not crazy about one of the Indie slots being taken by a doc, tbh, and we already have a doc in the main slate along with the dedicated category...Lean on Pete and Vox Lux both have a score of 5, and could be considered. I won't push the issue at all though - as I said, I haven't really earned the right this year!
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#235

Post by Ivan0716 » October 21st, 2019, 6:06 pm

Ex Libris can take Rush Hour's spot as the 5th doc, and Lean on Pete can go into Indie.

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#236

Post by beavis » October 21st, 2019, 6:09 pm

I wouldn't mind lean on pete instead of ex libris, if only because we have both the "horse" movies in the festival then... but mostly because docs always feel like a bit of a chore to me 😁 don't think i ever watched that section during the festival....

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#237

Post by sacmersault » October 21st, 2019, 9:07 pm

Agree with most of what has been said. Ex Libris could go to Doc, get rid of Rush Hour 'til next year and add another to Indie.

Spoor is definitively not Dawn material (even though I loved the film)

Tigers are not Afraid should definitively stay in (regardless of year). I would even support it more than The Untamed

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#238

Post by Fergenaprido » October 22nd, 2019, 1:32 am

The new proposal plus the recommended changes after all seem good to me.

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#239

Post by outdoorcats » October 22nd, 2019, 2:31 am

To answer the prior questions, Just Before Dawn is meant to encompass genre in general, in other words "midnight movies." Horror, thriller, martial arts, cult/niche.

At this point we're not taking any more votes. The jury might expand later if more people want to join in though (they just won't get to vote on the Main Slate).

Agree with the new proposal plus changes. Fine with either Vuelven or Au Poste--or both, since JBD is usually slightly longer than the other sections.

Dawn
1. Beast
2. One Cut of the Dead
3. The Untamed
4. Vuelven
5. Au Poste!

?

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#240

Post by outdoorcats » October 24th, 2019, 2:07 am

How does it look?

I like it. We kept all but two sections to four films, delivering on our promise for a more manageable festival (though if we only have 5 jury members this year I doubt they'll be able to give out awards to all the sections).

Did I miss anything big?

Euro
1. On Body and Soul [Hungary]
2. Quién te cantará
3. 3/4 [Bulgaria]
4. Montparnasse Bienvenue [France]
5. A Woman's Life [France]

Asia
1. Angels Wear White [China]
2. Marlina the Murder in Four Acts [Indonesia]
3. An Elephant Sitting Still [China]
4. Foxtrot [Israel]

Latin America
1. Our Time
2. El Amparo
3. Endless Poetry
4. The Distinguished Citizen

Documentaries
1. Shirkers
2. Cuba and the Cameraman
3. LA92
4. Abacus: Small Enough to Jail
5. Ex Libris

English-Language Indie
1. Support the Girls
2. Thunder Road
3. Ray & Liz
4. Lean on Pete

LGBT
1. Diamantino
2. Lovesong
3. Knife + Heart
4. Heartstone

Animation
1. The Wolf House
2. Okko's Inn
3. Another Day of Life
4. The Girl Without Hands

Latin America
1. Our Time
2. El Amparo
3. Endless Poetry
4. The Distinguished Citizen

Just Before Dawn
1. Beast
2. One Cut of the Dead
3. The Untamed
4. Vuelven [Tigers Are Not Afraid]
5. Au Poste!

Arthouse
1. Winter Brothers
2. Rey
3. A Gentle Creature
4. I Do Not Care If We Go Down in History as Barbarians

[a LION eats GOD. Gunshots ring out. MATT turns around]
MATT: That's the guy I was telling you about.

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