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iCMFF3: Programmer's Thread

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beavis
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Re: iCMFF3: Programmer's Thread

#161

Post by beavis » September 10th, 2019, 3:29 pm

thanks for taking action Ivan!

I did a big rehaul on the spreadsheat, there was still quite a bit of cleaning up to do (and I had a load of free time today)
also added Beast (next to Ivan's additions)
Tower is still lacking information (and votes)
not added all suggestions of post#153 above here yet, but if there is more support for those, I think it will help to have them as options
the bright green color might not be consistently applied (something wrong between Shadow World and Sarah Plays...)
I removed the bright violet color since only one person was using it, and I assume he is also keeping track of his watchlist
there is one score with a ,5 decimal. maybe this one should be rounded up or down to get full uniformity on the scoring system

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#162

Post by sacmersault » September 10th, 2019, 4:16 pm

One other thing I was looking at, the Euro section shouldn't be all french films. Maybe, we could look for other country/language films

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#163

Post by Fergenaprido » September 10th, 2019, 4:57 pm

beavis wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 3:29 pm
the bright green color might not be consistently applied (something wrong between Shadow World and Sarah Plays...)
I removed the bright violet color since only one person was using it, and I assume he is also keeping track of his watchlist
there is one score with a ,5 decimal. maybe this one should be rounded up or down to get full uniformity on the scoring system
Bright green colour should be automatic if it's above a certain score according to the formula... perhaps someone manually filled in a few cells... I can doublecheck

I was using bright violet to indicate to others which films I was planning on seeing; I thought it would be useful to know when we're deciding which films are still under consideration.

I also explained my .5 rating in a post above. I'm still on the fence on whether it should be a 1 or a 2. :p
beavis wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 8:25 am
btw, I just read the first post back, with regards to our timeline, we were supposed to have this finished on July 15th!
That was just an initial supposition, if we wanted to have the festival earlier in the year than November. Later on in the thread we discussed on an August 31st target for watching films before planning the programming, which we've largely stuck too.

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#164

Post by beavis » September 10th, 2019, 6:21 pm

Yeah, we are moving forward still, but i was not feeling any urgency from some people 😄

The half rating is unnecesary because that movie has good support. Just make a decission either way, it won't hurt the selection.

Sacmersault, read back to Ivan's posts, he made the same observation. And he also made some suggestions...

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#165

Post by outdoorcats » September 10th, 2019, 10:10 pm

I love Goldstone, it's an incredible genre film...including it in JBD would be a bit of a reach, though. It's a thriller, but not exactly what I'd call a midnight movie. But see it and judge for yourself? :shrug:

I'm extremely busy now, but I'm still willing to SWAP Seoul Station (animation), or The Untamed (Dawn) on Sunday. Any takers?

I will also definitely get to The Ornithologist. Not even sure how I haven't watched it yet, it looks fantastic.

The general feedback from last year was definitely "scale down the festival." I think if we can deliver a smaller festival this year, then at the end we can ask participants whether they'd be interested in a female directors section next year. I definitely think it's a great idea!

Thanks for taking charge guys. Keep taking the lead; I'll lend as much support as I possibly can. I'm feeling pretty confident I won't be needed next year and the project will be able keep running annually in the future if I'm just too busy (which next year I may very well be). Agreed?

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#166

Post by Fergenaprido » September 15th, 2019, 2:13 pm

Caught three more this week.

The Ornithologist - I think this was a holdover from last year. Been on my watchlist for a long time. ODC, you're right, it looks fantastic, but the story wasn't enough to captivate my interest. I loved the camerawork when looking from the birdseye view. I read up on St. Anthony during the film, which helped to put the strange story into context. On its own, it's bizarre, but in reference to the source material, it kind of all makes sense in the end in some strange, weird way. I have weak support for this; I'd rather see other films in the LGBT section (even if this qualifies), as I see this film as much more suitable to the arthouse section.

Weiner - my first flaiky rec! I quite enjoyed this, and it gets support from me. I knew vaguely about the scandal, and was surprised that by the end of this, I actually felt more sympathetic to Weiner than at the start. Fascinating story, to be sure, and I liked the style of the documentary; one mini-meta part where Weiner is asking about fly-on-the-wall documentaries.

Rafiki - just saw this. I thought I'd grabbed a copy without subtitles, but happily discovered when I doublechecked that they were there indeed. Love love love this film (maybe even a favourite), and so happy that it got released and didn't suffer because of the ban in its home country. Absolutely belongs in the LGBT section, but could also be moved to main slate or Asia/Africa quite easily.

Watching Other People's FilmsShow
3 and 2 will be :thumbsup: while 1 and 0 will be :down:
Italics will be films I plan to see, but of course that may change if something else comes available or is nominated.

outdoorcats
1. Columbus (2017) :thumbsup:
2. Custody (2018) :thumbsup:
3. Bloody Milk (2017) :thumbsup:

beavis
1. Drift (2017) :down:
2. Somniloquies (2017) :down:
3. 3/4 (2017) :down:

Ivan0716
1. Holiday (2018) :down:
2. Lover for a Day (2017)
3. Bad Genius (2017)

sacmersault
1. The Rider (2017) :thumbsup:
2. The Heiresses (2018)
3. King Cobra (2016)

flaiky
1. Weiner (2016) :thumbsup:
2. Lean on Pete (2017)
3. Wallay (2017)

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#167

Post by outdoorcats » September 15th, 2019, 3:49 pm

The ban was lifted and it played for a week and had a sold out screening in Nairobi. :cheers:

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#168

Post by Fergenaprido » September 15th, 2019, 4:10 pm

outdoorcats wrote:
September 15th, 2019, 3:49 pm
The ban was lifted and it played for a week and had a sold out screening in Nairobi. :cheers:
I know about that. I'm glad they relented, but it was only a temporary ban and simply a ploy to have it qualify for the Oscars. In the end, another film was chosen for the submission, and Rafiki went back to being banned in Kenya (as far as I know). :(

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#169

Post by sacmersault » September 20th, 2019, 4:56 am

Three I have seen and support recently:

Ruben Brandt, Collector +3
Vuelven +2
Cuba and the Cameraman +2

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#170

Post by flaiky » September 26th, 2019, 11:12 am

I just want to say I'm so sorry for going AWOL. I got a new job in August that has kept me very busy and exhausted. I've barely watched any films at all. I do feel guilty though, and there's genuinely so much stuff here I'm interested in...ugh. I'll try. When are you planning to get the list out for voting (assuming we're doing that same process this year)?
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#171

Post by beavis » September 26th, 2019, 11:18 am

that is a good question :)

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#172

Post by Fergenaprido » September 26th, 2019, 11:19 am

flaiky wrote:
September 26th, 2019, 11:12 am
I just want to say I'm so sorry for going AWOL. I got a new job in August that has kept me very busy and exhausted. I've barely watched any films at all. I do feel guilty though, and there's genuinely so much stuff here I'm interested in...ugh. I'll try. When are you planning to get the list out for voting (assuming we're doing that same process this year)?
No stress flaiky! :hug:

I'm hoping to wrap up as much as I can by the end of the month (especially now that the <400 poll is closed), so maybe we could set a goal of getting a list to the jury president by the end of next week (Sunday, October 6th)? I think that gives us enough time to flesh out those categories that still seem a bit shaky.

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#173

Post by outdoorcats » September 27th, 2019, 8:29 pm

Right, except I don't think we need a jury president this year. ;)

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#174

Post by Fergenaprido » October 3rd, 2019, 4:49 pm

And three more.

The Heiresses (2018) - Good film, not quite as good as I'd hoped, but it was still a nice character study. Plus, my first Paraguayan film. Support.

King Cobra (2016) - Another good film, this one better than I had expected. I thought it would be campy but it was rather quite serious. I though there was good acting from the actors playing Brent and Harlow, but James Franco was hamming it up way too much. Slater was good, while Silverstone and Ringwald were just kind of there. They didn't really get fully fleshout characters. Still, it was an interesting dramatization of a fairly twisted murder and scandal. Support.

Don't Call Me Son (2016) - Not at all what I had expected. I'd built up a narrative in my mind of what this film would be, somehow ignoring the plot summary. There were a few lagging moments, and I wanted to scream at the parents, but all in all it made sense, and I thought it was a very touching portrayal of the three teenagers. Rarely do I want to be so immersed in a film world, especially when it's a drama (as opposed to a fantasy or adventure), but I could have spent hours getting to know these characters more, fleshing out the back story, and seeing how their futures unfold. Mind you, I probably wouldn't have watched it if it was a longer film. Now I definitely need to check out the director's main film (The Second Mother). Strong Support.

Watching Other People's FilmsShow
3 and 2 will be :thumbsup: while 1 and 0 will be :down:
Italics will be films I plan to see, but of course that may change if something else comes available or is nominated.

outdoorcats
1. Columbus (2017) :thumbsup:
2. Custody (2018) :thumbsup:
3. Bloody Milk (2017) :thumbsup:

beavis
1. Drift (2017) :down:
2. Somniloquies (2017) :down:
3. 3/4 (2017) :down:

Ivan0716
1. Holiday (2018) :down:
2. Lover for a Day (2017)
3. Bad Genius (2017)

sacmersault
1. The Rider (2017) :thumbsup:
2. The Heiresses (2018) :thumbsup:
3. King Cobra (2016) :thumbsup:

flaiky
1. Weiner (2016) :thumbsup:
2. Lean on Pete (2017)
3. Wallay (2017)
Assuming I don't get a chance to watch any more films, I saw 11/15 films for the programming, which is better than I thought I'd do.

Since it's now early October, I'm going to post my proposals for the slates in a different post before going to bed.

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#175

Post by Fergenaprido » October 3rd, 2019, 6:08 pm

Here is my proposal for the Festival slates

I list the films in the following format:
# points - # voters - average score - title

Main Slate - 205 films
10 filmsShow
14 - 5 - 2.80 - Ash Is Purest White (2018)
11 - 4 - 2.75 - Long Day's Journey Into Night (2018)
10 - 4 - 2.50 - Columbus (2017)
10 - 5 - 2.00 - Shirkers (2018)
9 - 3 - 3.00 - Abacus: Small Enough to Jail (2016)
9 - 3 - 3.00 - Custody (2017)
9 - 4 - 2.25 - Angels Wear White (2017)
9 - 4 - 2.25 - Diamantino (2018)
9 - 4 - 2.25 - On Body and Soul (2017)
9 - 4 - 2.25 - Rafiki (2018)


Columbus and On Body and Soul are both already over the 10,000 vote threshold, but they were both widely seen, and OB&S was removed last year because we had too many films, so I think it still deserves to stay.

Animation - 15 films
4 filmsShow
6 - 2 - 3.00 - The Wolf House (2018)
5 - 2 - 2.50 - Okko's Inn (2018)
5 - 2 - 2.50 - Another Day of Life (2018)
4 - 2 - 2.00 - Have a Nice Day (2017)
4 - 2 - 2.00 - Mary and the Witch's Flower (2018)
4 - 2 - 2.00 - The Girl Without Hands (2016)


A weak category with no film being seen by more than two people. Wolf House makes more sense in Arthouse (but that's really crowded already) or LatAm for me, and Another Day of Life is an animated Doc, so could also be there, but it's lower than the other doc contenders, so maybe just drop it altogether and have it compete next year.
So I'd go with the 4 bolded ones.

Also, sacm - your vote is missing for The Tower.
Arthouse - 46 films
4 filmsShow
8 - 4 - 2.00 - Winter Brothers (2017)
8 - 3 - 2.67 - Sunday's Illness (2018)
7 - 3 - 2.33 - 3/4 (2017)

7 - 3 - 2.33 - Madeline's Madeline (2018)
7 - 3 - 2.33 - Quien te cantara (2018)
7 - 3 - 2.33 - Ray & Liz (2018)
6 - 2 - 3.00 - A Gentle Creature (2017)
6 - 2 - 3.00 - Our Time (2018)
6 - 2 - 3.00 - Rey (2017)

I don't know enough about arthouse films to make a call here, especially with so many ties. Madeline and Ray&Liz I've moved to Indie. Our Time and Rey I've moved to LatAm.
Asia & Africa - 38 films
4 filmsShow
8 - 4 - 2.0 - Marlina the Murderer in Four Acts (2017)
7 - 3 - 2.33 - An Elephant Sitting Still (2018)
7 - 3 - 2.33 - Foxtrot (2017)
5 - 2 - 2.50 - Apprentice (2016)

5 - 3 - 1.67 - Harmonium (2016)

A lot of Asian films made the main slate, and it looks like all the main contenders are Asian (only Rafiki was African, and it made the main slate in this proposal), so the category name should be renamed. Harmonium had a lower average, so I dropped it.
Documentary - 33 films
5 filmsShow
8 - 3 - 2.67 - Cuba and the Cameraman (2017)
8 - 3 - 2.67 - I Am Not Your Negro (2016)
7 - 3 - 2.33 - LA92 (2017)
6 - 2 - 3.00 - Ex Libris: The New York Public Library (2017)

6 - 2 - 3.00 - Rush Hour (2018)
6 - 2 - 3.00 - The King (2017)
6 - 3 - 2.00 - Weiner (2016)

Rush Hour is very underseen and is from 2018, so could wait until next year, or i could replace I Am Not Your Negro since it's over the 10,000 threshold and Oscar-nominated. Weiner had a lower average, so I dropped it. Proposing 5 here instead of 4.
Just Before Dawn - 22 films
5 filmsShow
6 - 2 - 3.00 - Beast (2017)
6 - 2 - 3.00 - Knife + Heart (2018)
6 - 2 - 3.00 - One Cut of the Dead (2017)
5 - 2 - 2.50 - Keep an Eye Out (2018)
5 - 2 - 2.50 - The Untamed (2016)
5 - 2 - 2.50 - Tigers Are Not Afraid (2016)

5 - 4 - 1.25 - Holiday (2018)

I believe the horror fans don't mind seeing more films, so we could do 5. Knife + Heart I've moved to LGBT. Holiday had a lower average, so I dropped it, plus it's only borderline horror.
Europe - 67 films
4 filmsShow
7 - 3 - 2.33 - Montparnasse Bienvenue
6 - 2 - 3.00 - A Woman's Life (2016)
6 - 2 - 3.00 - Closeness (2017)
6 - 2 - 3.00 - Lover for a Day (2017)

6 - 4 - 1.50 - The Innocents (2016)

I left out a bunch that were also in Arthouse, as they're listed above. If some shifted to this category, such as A Gentle Creature, I would drop the lower ones from this list, or expand the number. The Innocents had a lower average, so I dropped it.
English-language Independent - 30 films
5 filmsShow
8 - 3 - 2.67 - Support the Girls (2018)
8 - 3 - 2.67 - The Rider (2017)
7 - 3 - 2.33 - Thunder Road (2018)
7 - 3 - 2.33 - Madeline's Madeline (2018)
7 - 3 - 2.33 - Ray & Liz (2018)

6 - 2 - 3.00 - Ex Libris (2017)
6 - 2 - 3.00 - Lovesong (2016)

Madeline and Ray&Liz are both also arthouse, but probably make more sense here since the other category is so full. Ex Libris and Lovesong are moved to Doc and LGBT, respectively. The Rider could be dropped since it's now slightly over 10,000 votes, but I would like to see it stay in.
Latin America - 26 films
4 filmsShow
6 - 2 - 3.00 - Our Time (2018)
6 - 2 - 3.00 - Rey (2017)
6 - 2 - 3.00 - Rush Hour (2018)
6 - 2 - 3.00 - The Wolf House (2018)

6 - 4 - 1.50 - The Heiresses (2018)
5 - 2 - 2.50 - El Amparo (2016)
5 - 2 - 2.50 - Endless Poetry (2016)
5 - 2 - 2.50 - The Distinguished Citizen (2016)
5 - 2 - 2.50 - The Untamed (2016)
5 - 2 - 2.50 - Tigers Are Not Afraid (2017)
5 - 4 - 1.25 - Neruda (2016)

A lot of ties here. The Heiresses and Neruda had lower scores, so I dropped them. Untamed and Tigers are being considered in the Just Before Dawn Category.
LGBT - 23 films
4 filmsShow
8 - 3 - 2.67 - It's Only the End of the World (2016)
6 - 2 - 3.00 - Knife + Heart (2018)
6 - 2 - 3.00 - Lovesong (2016)

6 - 4 - 1.50 - The Heiresses (2018)
5 - 2 - 2.50 - Heartstone (2016)
5 - 3 - 1.67 - King Cobra (2016)
4 - 2 - 2.00 - El Angel (2018)
4 - 2 - 2.00 - Don't Call Me Son (2016)
4 - 2 - 2.00 - Southwest of Salem (2016)

I would consider removing the Dolan film, since it is way over the 10,000 vote threshold and was well-received at Cannes, and replace it with one of the three films with 4 points. The Heiresses and King Cobra had lower scores so I dropped them.

Summary
I've tried to stick to 4 films per category, and was largely able to do so without dropping too many films. Virtually everything with at lest 6 points (two votes of 3) makes it in in this proposal, and a few lower ones in the smaller categories. Main slate has the 10 films with the most points (there was a nice cutoff without any ties), and there are only a few films I think should be here but I'm not sure where to place them (primarily The Wolf House, Knife + Heart, A Gentle Creature, Another Day of Life), and a few categories where I'm not sure of myself (Arthouse, Latin America, and maybe Just Before Dawn).

What are your thoughts?

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#176

Post by outdoorcats » October 4th, 2019, 9:44 pm

The jury has picked the main slate in years past, which made sense as the films that all of them had to judge were the ones that as a group they wanted to see the most. Though sometimes if there was a film all or nearly all programmers supported, it would be automatically included (as a "centerpiece") whether they voted for it or no, and this helped highlight some films that might not *look* as interesting but had wide appeal (for example, The Missing Picture and Omar). It's been a year since we asked for feedback on this, but I don't remember that anyone disliked this system except that they wanted more advance notice of what the centerpiece was.

I am ready to post an open invitation jury thread if everyone else is. And if so, do we agree on Ash is Purest White as our Centerpiece? (it has the most points of all films on the spreadsheet, all but one programmer has seen it and all but one rated it 3.

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#177

Post by sacmersault » October 5th, 2019, 3:47 am

I think we as "programmers" should "program" the selection. What do others say?

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#178

Post by Fergenaprido » October 5th, 2019, 4:00 am

outdoorcats wrote:
October 4th, 2019, 9:44 pm
The jury has picked the main slate in years past, which made sense as the films that all of them had to judge were the ones that as a group they wanted to see the most. Though sometimes if there was a film all or nearly all programmers supported, it would be automatically included (as a "centerpiece") whether they voted for it or no, and this helped highlight some films that might not *look* as interesting but had wide appeal (for example, The Missing Picture and Omar). It's been a year since we asked for feedback on this, but I don't remember that anyone disliked this system except that they wanted more advance notice of what the centerpiece was.

I am ready to post an open invitation jury thread if everyone else is. And if so, do we agree on Ash is Purest White as our Centerpiece? (it has the most points of all films on the spreadsheet, all but one programmer has seen it and all but one rated it 3.
I didn't realize we had a centrepiece last year. I'm not opposed to the idea, but also don't see it as necessary. If we do choose one, then yes, I think Ash Is Purest White should be it.

Sorry if I jumped the gun with my proposal; when you said there wouldn't be a jury president, I thought that meant we would program it all.
sacmersault wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 3:47 am
I think we as "programmers" should "program" the selection. What do others say?
Agreed.

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#179

Post by beavis » October 5th, 2019, 6:06 am

the process would be a bit more clear to me (like i said before) if the programmers did the actual programming :)
I don't even know who the jury is at this point...
so, agreed

also agreed on Ash as a centerpiece... I would actually single out all Chinese features as a "centerpiece" this year if possible

some remarks on the Fergenaprido selections:
- with both Wolf House and Rey in the LatinAmerica selection, that one becomes véry art-house heavy, maybe more than the actual art-house section... but, I like that they are together in the same section...
- you could move Sunday's Illness to Europe and lose one of the French selections there, lose the other Spanish one in art-house and movie Rey and the Wolf to that section
- I haven't done a direct comparison to my own first sketch of a short while back, but with the spreadsheet guiding us, I think all of the high scorers can be selected, so we will end up with a very similar set of movies in any case... so if we all have had a final say, I think it is up to outdoorcats to move things to the next phase.

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#180

Post by beavis » October 5th, 2019, 6:52 am

I took another look at the spreadsheet to see what we have so far
But also on how we do as programmers per category

- For Asia and Africa most votes (of our high scoring movies) come from Fergenaprido and me. I am a little more critical in my support, so this is Ferge's category
- LGBT seems to be again Ferg and me. I do not actually identify with any of the letters in the acronym, so this might again be one for Ferg
- Indie seems for me clearly a Flaiky category
- Euro has most votes from me
- Doc is without a doubt again Flaiky's area
- Dawn, to my surprise, seem to be supported by me across the board with not too much input by the others
- Latin again me, but Sacmersault a good second
- Arthouse, neglecting me because just of the total number films I've seen, I'd say this belongs to Outdoorcats and Ivan
- Animation, also has support from me, but is clearly a Sacmersault expertise, even though his rating are conservative making it seem like animation hasn't got much support

So, if we are allowed to do the programming, we could divide up the work / focus our efforts in such a way
Or, we could find more programmers to add to area's where we have only one 'expert' at the moment (Dawn is in need of that, I feel)

---

Top 10 rating
Ash Is Purest White (Jiang hu er nü)
Long Day's Journey Into Night (Di qiu zui hou de ye wan)
Shirkers
Columbus
Angels Wear White (Jia nian hua)
Diamantino
On Body and Soul (Testről és lélekről)
Rafiki
Abacus: Small Enough to Jail
Custody (Jusqu'à la garde)

AsAFr
An Elephant Sitting Still (Da xiang xi di er zuo)
Foxtrot
Marlina the Murderer in Four Acts (Marlina si Pembunuh dalam Empat Babak)
Apprentice
Hotel Salvation (Mukti Bhawan)

LGBT
It's Only the End of the World (Juste la fin du monde)
Lovesong
Knife + Heart (Un couteau dans le coeur)
Heartstone [Hjartasteinn]
Don't Call Me Son (Mae So Ha Uma)

Indie
Support the Girls
The Rider
Thunder Road
Madeline's Madeline
Ray & Liz
Ex Libris: The New York Public Library

Euro
Montparnasse Bienvenue (Jeune femme)
A Woman's Life (Une Vie)
Closeness (Tesnota)
Lover for a Day (L'amant d'un jour)
Godless (Bezbog)
3 Days in Quiberon (3 Tage in Quiberon)
Lean on Pete

Doc
Cuba and the Cameraman
I Am Not Your Negro
LA 92
Weiner
The King

Dawn
Beast
One Cut of the Dead (Kamera o tomeru na!)
Keep an Eye Out (Au poste!)
The Untamed (La región salvaje)
Tigers Are Not Afraid (Vuelven)
In Fabric

LatAm
Rush Hour
Our Time (Nuestro tiempo)
Rey
The Wolf House (La Casa Lobo)
El Amparo
Endless Poetry (Poesía Sin Fin)
The Distinguished Citizen (El ciudadano ilustre)

Arthouse
Winter Brothers (Vinterbrødre)
Sunday's Illness (La enfermedad del domingo)
3-4
Quién te cantará
A Gentle Creature (Krotkaya)

Anim
Okko's Inn (Waka okami wa shôgakusei!)
Another Day of Life
The Girl Without Hands (La jeune fille sans mains)
Have a Nice Day (Hao ji le)
Mary and the Witch's Flower (Meari to majo no hana)

I believe I always checked on availability of my picks, but am not sure I can point the way to Okko's Inn at the moment
I hope others have done the same with their picks...

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#181

Post by beavis » October 5th, 2019, 6:59 am

Custody (Jusqu'à la garde)
One Cut of the Dead (Kamera o tomeru na!)
LA 92
Ex Libris

are new entries into our 500<400 list (and I may have missed a few others...?)
I think that should give them at least a bonuspoint for our final selection
Last edited by beavis on October 5th, 2019, 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#182

Post by beavis » October 5th, 2019, 7:02 am

cool double bills

the rider + lean on pete (horses)
rey + casa lobo (same production company)
sunday's illness + quien te cantara
ash is the purest white + long days journey into night + +

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#183

Post by Ivan0716 » October 5th, 2019, 8:10 am

I would say stick with jury voting for main slate selection this year and make the change next year, speaking as a juror from last year I really enjoyed the voting process, and I was definitely more engaged in the selection because of it. I'm also not a fan of big sudden changes to the process this late in the game. Either way it should at the very least discuss it with potential participants.

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#184

Post by sacmersault » October 5th, 2019, 8:20 pm

Ivan0716 wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 8:10 am
I would say stick with jury voting for main slate selection this year and make the change next year, speaking as a juror from last year I really enjoyed the voting process, and I was definitely more engaged in the selection because of it. I'm also not a fan of big sudden changes to the process this late in the game. Either way it should at the very least discuss it with potential participants.
Since you say that it's too late: We actually tried to have a conversation earlier in the year about changing but were shut down and told to only watch movies for the time.

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#185

Post by Fergenaprido » October 6th, 2019, 4:52 am

sacmersault wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 8:20 pm
Ivan0716 wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 8:10 am
I would say stick with jury voting for main slate selection this year and make the change next year, speaking as a juror from last year I really enjoyed the voting process, and I was definitely more engaged in the selection because of it. I'm also not a fan of big sudden changes to the process this late in the game. Either way it should at the very least discuss it with potential participants.
Since you say that it's too late: We actually tried to have a conversation earlier in the year about changing but were shut down and told to only watch movies for the time.
I wouldn't say you were shut down. Both Beavis and I agreed with you, we simply thought it was too soon to start putting films into categories because there were a lot that were still underseen. Perhaps we misunderstood what you had meant?

I don't think it's too late in the process for us to program right now, Ivan, and I don't know that it's really a big sudden change. That being said, if there's a big wish to have the jurors vote on what they want to see, I guess I don't mind. It simply is counterintuitive to me that the programmers don't get to do the actual programming, and it seems disrespectful of all the time and energy we are putting in to finding new films, locating them, watching, them, and coming up with the best way to showcase them.

Beavis, I also like your suggestions for programming. The only thing I would change is to include fewer films in each category. We received feedback last year that it was too much for the participants to view, and your proposal has 61 films (mine has 49, maybe we make it an even 50). We had 71 films in 2018 and 47 films in 2017.

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#186

Post by beavis » October 6th, 2019, 7:02 am

Oh, that last selection of mine wasn't a proposal, just the list of eligable films grouped into category's for someone or others to make a final selection from.

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#187

Post by flaiky » October 6th, 2019, 9:15 am

Fergenaprido wrote:
October 6th, 2019, 4:52 am
It simply is counterintuitive to me that the programmers don't get to do the actual programming, and it seems disrespectful of all the time and energy we are putting in to finding new films, locating them, watching, them, and coming up with the best way to showcase them.
Similarly, it would be a slight waste of the time and energy if there wasn't much engagement with the project from other users. Ivan said that being able to vote on the choices as a juror was a big motivator to watch the films, and that's the impression I've got from other participants over the years.

Anyway, I don't feel like I have earned the right to have any say this time around, heh, so I won't get very involved in the programming choices. The suggestions so far look good though.
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#188

Post by outdoorcats » October 6th, 2019, 1:00 pm

I will just go with majority rules here (all to better prepare you for an outdoorcats-less fest next year ;) ) so we can start putting together the whole program ourselves. However to Ivan and flaiky's point we can ask feedback from the jury after the fest is over as we do every year and see if they overall prefer the new way or old to see how they feel. Who knows, they may end up preferring it.

I do expect complaints from them though, if we just pick the Main Slate based on which have the most points, since that is more of a measurement of which films are the most seen rather than which ones are the best hidden gems. (note than Diamantino and Angels Wear White only have one "3" vote) I'm noticing a theme since we moved here than many users have already heard of the big films at major Euro festivals and want to discover something they haven't heard of yet. I would suggest for the other programmers some sort of system for getting more unique films on there.

For example, (A) the top 4 remain the same but then the 6 of us each pick one film we want to be on the main slate (but maybe with a threshold of, it still has to have at least 7 points). Voila, 10.

Or, (B) we go by films with the highest averages first, but with at least 3 programmers having seen. Which would give us this list:

Abacus: Small Enough to Jail - 3.0
Custody - 3.
Ash is Purest White - 2.8
Long Day's Journey Into Night - 2.75
Cuba and the Cameraman - 2.67
I Am Not Your Negro - 2.67
It's Only the End of the World - 2.67
Sunday's Illness - 2.67
Support the Girls - 2.67
The Rider - 2.67

(C) - ??? Your idea here

(D) - Ignore this altogether and stick with the films with the most points

Personally, I lean towards (A) as that could give us a really unique list. Want to hear your thoughts.

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#189

Post by mightysparks » October 6th, 2019, 1:40 pm

As a regular jury member, I like voting on the films for the main slate, but am happy with either process.
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#190

Post by Fergenaprido » October 6th, 2019, 2:27 pm

beavis wrote:
October 6th, 2019, 7:02 am
Oh, that last selection of mine wasn't a proposal, just the list of eligable films grouped into category's for someone or others to make a final selection from.
Oh, okay. That makes more sense. :thumbsup:
flaiky wrote:
October 6th, 2019, 9:15 am
Fergenaprido wrote:
October 6th, 2019, 4:52 am
It simply is counterintuitive to me that the programmers don't get to do the actual programming, and it seems disrespectful of all the time and energy we are putting in to finding new films, locating them, watching, them, and coming up with the best way to showcase them.
Similarly, it would be a slight waste of the time and energy if there wasn't much engagement with the project from other users. Ivan said that being able to vote on the choices as a juror was a big motivator to watch the films, and that's the impression I've got from other participants over the years.
Fair point.
outdoorcats wrote:
October 6th, 2019, 1:00 pm
I will just go with majority rules here (all to better prepare you for an outdoorcats-less fest next year ;) ) so we can start putting together the whole program ourselves. However to Ivan and flaiky's point we can ask feedback from the jury after the fest is over as we do every year and see if they overall prefer the new way or old to see how they feel. Who knows, they may end up preferring it.

I do expect complaints from them though, if we just pick the Main Slate based on which have the most points, since that is more of a measurement of which films are the most seen rather than which ones are the best hidden gems. (note than Diamantino and Angels Wear White only have one "3" vote) I'm noticing a theme since we moved here than many users have already heard of the big films at major Euro festivals and want to discover something they haven't heard of yet. I would suggest for the other programmers some sort of system for getting more unique films on there.

For example, (A) the top 4 remain the same but then the 6 of us each pick one film we want to be on the main slate (but maybe with a threshold of, it still has to have at least 7 points). Voila, 10.

Or, (B) we go by films with the highest averages first, but with at least 3 programmers having seen. Which would give us this list:

Abacus: Small Enough to Jail - 3.0
Custody - 3.
Ash is Purest White - 2.8
Long Day's Journey Into Night - 2.75
Cuba and the Cameraman - 2.67
I Am Not Your Negro - 2.67
It's Only the End of the World - 2.67
Sunday's Illness - 2.67
Support the Girls - 2.67
The Rider - 2.67

(C) - ??? Your idea here

(D) - Ignore this altogether and stick with the films with the most points

Personally, I lean towards (A) as that could give us a really unique list. Want to hear your thoughts.
Thanks for outlining the options. I like option B, but I know that I would have changed my watching "strategy" if we had been going with averages instead of total points. In that case, then, I would propose a new idea.

There are 10 films with 9 or more points, and another 8 films with 8 points. What if we gave that list of 18 films for the jurors to vote upon, and let them pick 8-10 films that they want to see, and then we as a jury can add on 1-2 more films that we feel the jurors neglected but should remain in the main slate. I think we did something similar last year. Then, we can reshuffle the other categories based on what's left off the main slate. Plus, this would include every film seen by at least 3 jurors that had high average ratings.

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#191

Post by Ivan0716 » October 6th, 2019, 2:55 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
October 6th, 2019, 4:52 am
It simply is counterintuitive to me that the programmers don't get to do the actual programming, and it seems disrespectful of all the time and energy we are putting in to finding new films, locating them, watching, them, and coming up with the best way to showcase them.
I don't feel that way, our goal is getting people to participate. 10 films is not a small number, and since jurors are required to complete the main slate, I think they'd be more inclined to watch the 10 films that they had taken part in selecting, rather than having the films laid out in front of them and be told "Here, watch these".

Anyway, since we've decided, I don't like using the 10 films with the highest poitns neither, happy with option A or B from outdoorcats' suggestions.

I also think Long Day's Journey should be excluded since it's already a forum darling(and so is Bi Gan), it performed very well in our 2018 and 2010s polls. I feel like it has already been seen by everyone who cares to.

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#192

Post by outdoorcats » October 6th, 2019, 4:17 pm

Fergen: Interesting idea; that's pretty much the old system, except the jury is voting from a smaller pool rather than the whole list.

Ivan: Kind of agree re: Long Day's Journey.

beavis: I don't really have the resources to check on the availability of my picks, so to speak. But someone should double-check In Fabric, as I just saw that come and go at my local arthouse.
Rey is a more or less fully experimental film, so it's a better pick for Arthouse than A Gentle Creature, 3/4, Sunday's Illness and Quien te cantara (all of which aren't more challenging or experimental than any other film here IMO).

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#193

Post by beavis » October 6th, 2019, 6:22 pm

so many options :) I am again/still totally confused :)

so at this point I do not have much of an opinion, whatever is decided is fine by me
if I should pick one movie from our selection that I would like everybody to see, it has to be Nuestro Tiempo. Best film I've seen this year. It is only just now getting a regular cinema release in the Netherlands, but is also just released on BluRay in the UK, so should be widely available.

In Fabric is also out on BluRay in the UK

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#194

Post by beavis » October 6th, 2019, 7:34 pm

recap of my "Camera Japan" (a festival on Japanese cinema) viewings this weekend

Ikiterudakede ai (2018) Love At Least - 8
Tonde Saitama (2019) Fly Me To The Saitama - 8
Sayonara no asa ni yakusoku no hana o kazarō (2018) Maquia: When the Promised Flower Blooms - 7,5
Vision (2018) - 7
Chieri to Cherî (2015) Chieri and Cherry - 7
Pengin haiwei (2018) Penguin Highway - 6,5

- Maquia could be a good Anime option next year. The epic fantasy world building in it is very well done, sadly it performs mostly as a backdrop to a smaller, episodic and sentimental story, but it was still good
- Fly me to the Saitama reminded me of the crazy anarchistic Japanese comedies of the early 2000's and the campy Visual Kei elements are a lot of fun too
- Love at Least deals with depression and balances on a tightrope between darker and lighter elements and also on the edge of over-the-top but keeps it together with an amazing lead performance, very good cinematography, an exiting jazz soundtrack and by wearing its heart on its sleave. Another on of these movies they seem to make only well in Japan and that I hadn't seen in a while

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#195

Post by sacmersault » October 6th, 2019, 8:06 pm

Maybe we could do a blend of option A + B and what Fergenaprido says:

Do top 10 from averages + 1 selected by each programmer THEN send them to jury, and they choose 10

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#196

Post by Fergenaprido » October 7th, 2019, 7:49 am

sacmersault wrote:
October 6th, 2019, 8:06 pm
Maybe we could do a blend of option A + B and what Fergenaprido says:

Do top 10 from averages + 1 selected by each programmer THEN send them to jury, and they choose 10
That also works for me.

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#197

Post by outdoorcats » October 7th, 2019, 9:20 pm

I like it as well. (and my pick would be 3/4)

Also, anyone mind if I post a jury open invitation thread as in years past? The sooner we get the jury finalized the better.

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#198

Post by sacmersault » October 7th, 2019, 10:40 pm

outdoorcats wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 9:20 pm

Also, anyone mind if I post a jury open invitation thread as in years past? The sooner we get the jury finalized the better.
sounds like a good idea

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#199

Post by sacmersault » October 7th, 2019, 10:53 pm

My choice would be Devil's Freedom (La libertad del diablo)

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#200

Post by Ivan0716 » October 9th, 2019, 11:05 pm

outdoorcats wrote:
October 6th, 2019, 1:00 pm
(but maybe with a threshold of, it still has to have at least 7 points)
Are we having a minimum? If so can it be 6 instead of 7. I have a ton of films sitting at 6 because only beavis and I have seen them, I'd like my pick to be one of them.

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