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St. Gloede
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#19202

Post by St. Gloede » September 9th, 2020, 1:52 pm

Pedro Costa?

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Knaldskalle
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#19203

Post by Knaldskalle » September 9th, 2020, 3:04 pm

"Well I can tel you a sad and funny story."

Where's the funny bit?
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#19204

Post by GruesomeTwosome » September 9th, 2020, 3:15 pm

St. Gloede wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 1:52 pm
Pedro Costa?
Yeah, I found the full interview, it’s from Mubi and was in 2013: https://mubi.com/notebook/posts/some-v ... edro-costa

Certainly an entertaining read, heh.
I’m to remember every man I've seen fall into a plate of spaghetti???

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St. Gloede
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#19206

Post by St. Gloede » September 10th, 2020, 12:44 pm

I don't have too much respect for the Oscars but these are utterly ridiculous for two reasons:

1. It is not even a qouta to get films included, but to exclude works (which is horrendous - granted, just in theory here - see 2). If they had a quota, such as at least one person of minority status included in each category - I would have no real issue (I don't like quotas in general, but that's perfectly understandable, instead films have to comply with 2 out of 4 standards to be considered at all.

2. This is extremely easy to bypass for any (larger) production. All you need is an internship program, and a woman and/or minority person involved in the production, and that's it. You can still have all white men directed and focused films - so not much has to change at all. Any studio (of size) can easily make sure their Oscar condenders matches the quota.

The only decent thing here, I suppose, is that more people will get a shot on the crew of these big productions. This just seems like very, very lazy pandering.

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#19207

Post by outdoorcats » September 10th, 2020, 8:38 pm

:lol: Oppressed White people on Twitter can cry all they want about reverse racism all they want. If you read the rules, a film with all White male characters (such as The Thing) is still eligible as long as the crew is appropriately diverse.

Presumably the controversy about "censorship" and "exclusion" is that filmmakers don't have the "artistic freedom" to hire all-White crews in an incredibly diverse Hollywood, which can only be done in 2020 through intentional exclusion.

Actually, I forgot, they can. But if they do, they're just not eligible for the Best Picture award at the Oscars.

OH THE HUMANITY

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#19208

Post by Pretentious Hipster » September 10th, 2020, 10:02 pm

My worry about it was that a film from like, let's say Estonia, wouldn't get nominated for these reasons... but then again a film from Eastern Europe will never get a best picture nomination anyways.

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#19209

Post by Knaldskalle » September 10th, 2020, 10:12 pm

Pretentious Hipster wrote:
September 10th, 2020, 10:02 pm
My worry about it was that a film from like, let's say Estonia, wouldn't get nominated for these reasons... but then again a film from Eastern Europe will never get a best picture nomination anyways.
Didn't a South Korean movie win just last year..?
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#19210

Post by St. Gloede » September 10th, 2020, 10:55 pm

This was my main concern as well, though I went back to check Amour, which I thought may be excluded, but it had several women as producers and would therefor have passed. Still, this is theoretically possible, and the only ones harmed would be smaller productions and foreign productions. Still, most "foreign" productions are likely to have women in key roles and as producers/doing other key work behind the screen - and if not, have at least 1 intern.

I would really be interested in seeing what recently nominated films would not have made it. Has anyone made a list?

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#19211

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » September 11th, 2020, 3:25 am

Women are not "an underrepresented racial or ethnic group."

They could have saved themselves a lot of headaches by removing the on screen representation standard which is redundant. A movie that is appropriately focused on a member of an underrepresented should have no problem meeting at two of the others. All it actually does is open the door for a) white people to badly tell a story about minorities or b) to say a movie with an Arab terrorist qualifies because that's a "significant supporting character."

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#19212

Post by outdoorcats » September 11th, 2020, 5:07 am

Make sure to give the rules an actual look; the link PH posted oversimplified them, giving the misleading impression that all the criteria are about "underrepresented racial or ethnic groups"
SpoilerShow
STANDARD A: ON-SCREEN REPRESENTATION, THEMES AND NARRATIVES

To achieve Standard A, the film must meet ONE of the following criteria:


A1. Lead or significant supporting actors

At least one of the lead actors or significant supporting actors is from an underrepresented racial or ethnic group.

• Asian

• Hispanic/Latinx

• Black/African American

• Indigenous/Native American/Alaskan Native

• Middle Eastern/North African

• Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander

• Other underrepresented race or ethnicity












A2. General ensemble cast

At least 30% of all actors in secondary and more minor roles are from at least two of the following underrepresented groups:

• Women

• Racial or ethnic group

• LGBTQ+

• People with cognitive or physical disabilities, or who are deaf or hard of hearing






A3. Main storyline/subject matter

The main storyline(s), theme or narrative of the film is centered on an underrepresented group(s).

• Women

• Racial or ethnic group

• LGBTQ+

• People with cognitive or physical disabilities, or who are deaf or hard of hearing






STANDARD B: CREATIVE LEADERSHIP AND PROJECT TEAM

To achieve Standard B, the film must meet ONE of the criteria below:


B1. Creative leadership and department heads

At least two of the following creative leadership positions and department heads—Casting Director, Cinematographer, Composer, Costume Designer, Director, Editor, Hairstylist, Makeup Artist, Producer, Production Designer, Set Decorator, Sound, VFX Supervisor, Writer—are from the following underrepresented groups:

• Women

• Racial or ethnic group

• LGBTQ+

• People with cognitive or physical disabilities, or who are deaf or hard of hearing






At least one of those positions must belong to the following underrepresented racial or ethnic group:

• Asian

• Hispanic/Latinx

• Black/African American

• Indigenous/Native American/Alaskan Native

• Middle Eastern/North African

• Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander

• Other underrepresented race or ethnicity












B2. Other key roles

At least six other crew/team and technical positions (excluding Production Assistants) are from an underrepresented racial or ethnic group. These positions include but are not limited to First AD, Gaffer, Script Supervisor, etc.

B3. Overall crew composition

At least 30% of the film’s crew is from the following underrepresented groups:

• Women

• Racial or ethnic group

• LGBTQ+

• People with cognitive or physical disabilities, or who are deaf or hard of hearing






STANDARD C: INDUSTRY ACCESS AND OPPORTUNITIES

To achieve Standard C, the film must meet BOTH criteria below:


C1. Paid apprenticeship and internship opportunities

The film’s distribution or financing company has paid apprenticeships or internships that are from the following underrepresented groups and satisfy the criteria below:

• Women

• Racial or ethnic group

• LGBTQ+

• People with cognitive or physical disabilities, or who are deaf or hard of hearing






The major studios/distributors are required to have substantive, ongoing paid apprenticeships/internships inclusive of underrepresented groups (must also include racial or ethnic groups) in most of the following departments: production/development, physical production, post-production, music, VFX, acquisitions, business affairs, distribution, marketing and publicity.

The mini-major or independent studios/distributors must have a minimum of two apprentices/interns from the above underrepresented groups (at least one from an underrepresented racial or ethnic group) in at least one of the following departments: production/development, physical production, post-production, music, VFX, acquisitions, business affairs, distribution, marketing and publicity.

C2. Training opportunities and skills development (crew)

The film’s production, distribution and/or financing company offers training and/or work opportunities for below-the-line skill development to people from the following underrepresented groups:

• Women

• Racial or ethnic group

• LGBTQ+

• People with cognitive or physical disabilities, or who are deaf or hard of hearing






STANDARD D: AUDIENCE DEVELOPMENT

To achieve Standard D, the film must meet the criterion below:


D1. Representation in marketing, publicity, and distribution

The studio and/or film company has multiple in-house senior executives from among the following underrepresented groups (must include individuals from underrepresented racial or ethnic groups) on their marketing, publicity, and/or distribution teams.

• Women

• Racial or ethnic group:


· Asian

· Hispanic/Latinx

· Black/African American

· Indigenous/Native American/Alaskan Native

· Middle Eastern/North African

· Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander

· Other underrepresented race or ethnicity

• LGBTQ+

• People with cognitive or physical disabilities, or who are deaf or hard of hearing
Too long, didn't read? Women are considered underrepresented groups in standards B, C, and D, and parts of A (a film only has to check 2 to qualify, and a film only has to check one part of A to get A). If a film has a female costume designer and set decorator, it's already checked one of 2 boxes. Overall, it's a meaningless move that literally puts the hurdle on the ground - you'd be hard pressed to find a single film this actually effects.

If it were up to me, I'd just force the issue of quotas for an appropriately diverse crew/creative team and leave it at that, but make it way, WAY higher (it should be a percentage). There's no excuses for not being able to meet that. Can't do it, convinced that the only best people for the job were all White males? Boo hoo, no Oscar for you. I'm playing the world's tiniest violin.

But American conservatives have been throwing fits over "forced diversity" (read: any film with diversity is "forced" by an elite cabal of evil liberals pulling society's strings) for decades. Any move to increase diversity in Hollywood is a sign of Wypipo Armageddon to them. There was no point making this as weak as it is, since Fox-News-watching America was going to go into Full Outrage Mode over it no matter what. Why not do something meaningful?

Peter...is your social worker in that horse?

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#19213

Post by Teproc » September 11th, 2020, 6:18 am

Because this is not the way to do something meaningful. It's repressive, literally, which is why they had to make it toothless. The changes in the membership were a much better avenue to explore.

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#19214

Post by Pretentious Hipster » September 11th, 2020, 11:15 am

Teproc wrote:
September 11th, 2020, 6:18 am
The changes in the membership were a much better avenue to explore.
True it is still old white American men doing the actual nominating and voting process. The illusion of being "woke" but actually aren't.

I did take the news in bad faith before admittingly, but after seeing twitter trying to get that Emerson prof fired, or saying that Marx shouldn't be included in Marxist theory, I have a harder time supporting them.

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#19215

Post by outdoorcats » September 11th, 2020, 4:54 pm

Teproc wrote:
September 11th, 2020, 6:18 am
Because this is not the way to do something meaningful. It's repressive, literally.
You know what? You changed my mind. I see it now, thank you. It's actually White men who are being repressed because they can't participate in racist hiring practices and win a Best Picture Oscar. We're practically living in North Korea at this point.

Peter...is your social worker in that horse?

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#19216

Post by brokenface » September 12th, 2020, 10:36 am

outdoorcats wrote:
September 10th, 2020, 8:38 pm
If you read the rules, a film with all White male characters (such as The Thing) is still eligible as long as the crew is appropriately diverse.
Keith David and TK Carter say hi

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