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The Film Lounge

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#19161

Post by Onderhond » August 21st, 2020, 2:46 pm

Not even sure if it's the wokes or the soccer moms complaining about this, but it looks like people/Americans getting bored and looking for a new outrage to kill some time.

It's both sad and hilarious following the online discussions.

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#19162

Post by jal90 » August 21st, 2020, 2:48 pm

Onderhond wrote:
August 21st, 2020, 2:46 pm
Not even sure if it's the wokes or the soccer moms complaining about this, but it looks like people/Americans getting bored and looking for a new outrage to kill some time.

It's both sad and hilarious following the online discussions.
Yeah, you can think that or you can think that Netflix tried to capitalize the "hypersexualization of minors" theme of the movie in the absolute least appropriate way.

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#19163

Post by Onderhond » August 21st, 2020, 2:52 pm

jal90 wrote:
August 21st, 2020, 2:48 pm
Yeah, you can think that or you can think that Netflix tried to capitalize the "hypersexualization of minors" theme of the movie in the absolute least appropriate way.
To comment on that, I'd have to see the film. Since it seems to correspond to the theme of the film though, it's a bit weird to call it "inappropriate". The French poster looks like a film aimed at 12 year olds, imagine the outrage is people went in expecting that and found out what it was really about. You'll always find someone to complain and outrage online, it really shouldn't be given so much attention.

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#19164

Post by jal90 » August 21st, 2020, 3:03 pm

Onderhond wrote:
August 21st, 2020, 2:52 pm
jal90 wrote:
August 21st, 2020, 2:48 pm
Yeah, you can think that or you can think that Netflix tried to capitalize the "hypersexualization of minors" theme of the movie in the absolute least appropriate way.
To comment on that, I'd have to see the film. Since it seems to correspond to the theme of the film though, it's a bit weird to call it "inappropriate". The French poster looks like a film aimed at 12 year olds, imagine the outrage is people went in expecting that and found out what it was really about. You'll always find someone to complain and outrage online, it really shouldn't be given so much attention.
Of course, we should see the film, but selling 11-year-olds in suggestive poses is not an ambiguous move by Netflix, so yeah, it can be blamed for basically either catering to pedophiles or being the absolute lowest common denominator of marketing with zero to no ethical concerns just to generate controversy.

I can also get tired and sick of internet outrage but that doesn't make this presentation any better or justifies it by any means.

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#19165

Post by Onderhond » August 21st, 2020, 3:07 pm

If you are really so offended by that poster, I would worry more about what you can see on social platform like Instagram. If you really think some pedophile is going to care about that poster considering the stuff that is out there (legally).

Again, very topical
Do I think Netflix was unaware it was going to create a controversy? Nah, but I don't think they expected people to go this mental. I don't see any ethical issues here at all

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#19166

Post by jal90 » August 21st, 2020, 3:19 pm

"If you are really so offended by that poster..." is absolutely not the way I'd like this conversation to be held, uh. Also "there are worse things" is true, and kind of a non-argument.

I'm pretty sure Netflix knew it was going to generate controversy, on the other hand. It's just tasteless marketing.

But if you don't see anything wrong, you do you. I do me.

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#19167

Post by joachimt » August 21st, 2020, 3:42 pm

I read a little bit of an interview with the director about her intentions with the movie. I wonder how well those intentions come across in the movie. I watched the trailer and it shows me a different message at first glance. The trailer looks to me like a story about a young girl who wants to break free from the traditions of the community she's living in and wants a more free life like "normal" girls. The trailer makes me think those old traditions are the bad things here acting like a prison for girls from generations who weren't born in the country their parents came from. The trailer hints at the effects of their online behavior, but the biggest message I get is "women should cover themselves is an old tradition that should change". I hope the movie goes beyond that and actually brings the message about the way social media managed to make young girls think it's normal to present themselves as a sex object without even knowing they're doing so.
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#19168

Post by Onderhond » August 21st, 2020, 3:54 pm

jal90 wrote:
August 21st, 2020, 3:19 pm
Also "there are worse things" is true, and kind of a non-argument.
Only if it was targeted at unrelated thing (like "how bad is this when there's also famine in Africa). The fact that people get so worked over this poster is because they have absolutely no clue what is out there on public platforms like Twitter and Instagram (or, as some people have pointed out, just regular dance groups for youngsters). But because it's on a poster for a film, it's suddenly problematic? Makes me think Netflix made the right move to get the point across, unless people are so blind they think Netflix picking a different poster is actually a victory.
jal90 wrote:
August 21st, 2020, 3:19 pm
But if you don't see anything wrong, you do you. I do me.
True. That of course is not the gist of most online discussion right now, as people are actively trying to get it banned from Netflix. Land of the free indeed.

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#19169

Post by cinephage » August 21st, 2020, 4:06 pm

joachimt wrote:
August 21st, 2020, 3:42 pm
I
I read a little bit of an interview with the director about her intentions with the movie. I wonder how well those intentions come across in the movie. I watched the trailer and it shows me a different message at first glance. The trailer looks to me like a story about a young girl who wants to break free from the traditions of the community she's living in and wants a more free life like "normal" girls. The trailer makes me think those old traditions are the bad things here acting like a prison for girls from generations who weren't born in the country their parents came from. The trailer hints at the effects of their online behavior, but the biggest message I get is "women should cover themselves is an old tradition that should change". I hope the movie goes beyond that and actually brings the message about the way social media managed to make young girls think it's normal to present themselves as a sex object without even knowing they're doing so.
This is most of all an uncompromising portrait of an 11-year-old girl plunged in a world that imposes a series of dictates on her.
My understanding is that the dictates from her family are problematic, and that the dictates of society, with its demand of sexualization, are just as problematic, even though in a different way.
The director seems quite balanced in her approach, and she met many girls of that age, wondering whether they were aware of what their moves and gestures suggested. It seems society encourages such moves, but that they are not sufficiently protected from such demands, as they only see the likes and shares triggered by a photo wearing short trousers or a string, not the reason behind that success.

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#19170

Post by outdoorcats » August 21st, 2020, 5:18 pm

Well it was a bizarrely creepy poster that blurred the line between satirizing the sexualization of young girls (f.e. Little Miss Sunshine) and promoting it.

Keep in mind also that social media is a little obsessed with pedophilia panic now, between the Epstein case, the LOL Surprise Dolls controversy and average people picking up on old QAnon theories (at least the ones that don't sound as insane) through regurgitated FB memes.

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#19171

Post by GruesomeTwosome » August 21st, 2020, 5:42 pm

The “LOL Surprise Dolls controversy”? I guess I don’t even want to know what the hell that is...
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#19172

Post by outdoorcats » August 21st, 2020, 5:49 pm

Basically they are these dolls that when you put them in cold water, their outfits change (hence "surprise"). Some of the outfits are very risque because they are modeled on looks worn by celebrities such as Lady Gaga, Rihanna, etc. They've been around for a while but only became controversial recently when videos of moms declaiming the toys have gone viral on social media, arguing the toys normalizing pedophilia and "grooming."

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#19173

Post by GruesomeTwosome » August 21st, 2020, 6:04 pm

outdoorcats wrote:
August 21st, 2020, 5:49 pm
Basically they are these dolls that when you put them in cold water, their outfits change (hence "surprise"). Some of the outfits are very risque because they are modeled on looks worn by celebrities such as Lady Gaga, Rihanna, etc. They've been around for a while but only became controversial recently when videos of moms declaiming the toys have gone viral on social media, arguing the toys normalizing pedophilia and "grooming."
Ah, I see. Yeah I guess the believers of QAnon/Pizzagate-related bullshit see pedophilia in just about anything and everything now.

As for this Cuties movie, it just looks like tone-deaf marketing on the part of Netflix, and these American pedophilia panic-obsessed people (mostly Trumpers/QAnon types) take one look at that original Netflix poster (which certainly is indeed in bad taste) and want the film banned when it was really just misleading, poorly thought out marketing from Netflix that is to blame for any "controversy". I don’t have any interest in this film myself but I do feel kinda bad for this young black female director, as this narrative about her film that has taken off appears to be vastly different from the actual content of the film.
Last edited by GruesomeTwosome on August 21st, 2020, 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#19174

Post by outdoorcats » August 21st, 2020, 6:38 pm

I think the QAnon people have gotten better at sneaking their messaging into the mainstream because I've seen lots of QAnon-lite or QAnon-suggestive memes being shared by people I know have no real interest in politics (and definitely wouldn't be even right-leaning if they were). For example memes suggesting Biden is a pedophile showing pictures of his creepy habit of touching and stroking children's hair. It is indeed creepy and many of the children look deeply uncomfortable and should be a starting point for discussing ways we can give children better ownership of their bodies (for example, not pressuring them into hugs if they don't want to!). I just think it's...interesting that these memes seem to exclusively focus on Biden and not, for example, Trump talking about wanting to fuck his daughter or talking about how young Epstein likes his girls 20 years ago.

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#19176

Post by pitchorneirda » August 27th, 2020, 3:11 pm

Pretentious Hipster wrote:
August 27th, 2020, 2:55 pm
It broke my heart to read this. Bill Morrison is one of the "experimental" filmmakers I respect the most. I hope the new release of Dawson CIty in France will increase his renown a little bit

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#19177

Post by Pretentious Hipster » August 27th, 2020, 3:12 pm

This actually makes it worse


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#19178

Post by St. Gloede » August 27th, 2020, 6:08 pm

Good reminder to seek out Decasia, I really enjoyed Dawson City so that's a good sign (felt slightly too conventional for the experimental though).

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#19179

Post by outdoorcats » August 27th, 2020, 6:15 pm

Pretentious Hipster wrote:
August 27th, 2020, 2:55 pm
Robinson in Ruins at the NYFF 2010 lost even more audience members than Ruhr (I guess people buying tickets for Ruhr knew what they were getting into?). More than half the audience left, closer to 2/3 IIRC.

I'm not surprised Decasia got that response in Sundance. Sundance is generally a venue for mainstream, narrative independent films.

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#19180

Post by Pretentious Hipster » August 27th, 2020, 7:24 pm

Actually could be a cool question to ask here. I watched Spring Breaks the opening night. Packed to the brim. Maybe like a third of the theatre walked out, and it was dumb everyone did the "what the hell?!" kind of laughing.

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#19181

Post by zuma » August 27th, 2020, 7:38 pm


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#19182

Post by Gershwin » August 27th, 2020, 8:00 pm

Oh my f** g**. A "time-twisting puzzle". Exactly where all the worst of Nolan meets in one place.

Will be popping up in at least 15 official lists in the next few months of course. :facepalm:
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#19183

Post by joachimt » August 27th, 2020, 8:20 pm

Gershwin wrote:
August 27th, 2020, 8:00 pm
Oh my f** g**. A "time-twisting puzzle". Exactly where all the worst of Nolan meets in one place.

Will be popping up in at least 15 official lists in the next few months of course. :facepalm:
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#19184

Post by Gershwin » August 27th, 2020, 8:36 pm

That's because this ought to be even worse than all of his former films.

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#19185

Post by OldAle1 » August 27th, 2020, 9:42 pm

Maybe his big fans have been watching lots of older SF films during the pandemic, and are finally realizing that he's not as novel and special as they used to think he was.

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#19186

Post by outdoorcats » August 27th, 2020, 10:26 pm

I didn't even realize the NYFF had announced their Main Slate. I had thought the festival was cancelled. It appears it will be online, which makes it possible for me to actually attend this year. :)

https://www.filmlinc.org/nyff2020/sections/main-slate/

-Frederick Wiseman's City Hall, despite the 4.5 hour running time, is one that immediately caught my attention. I'm becoming a big fan of Wiseman, whose films leave me feeling enriched. I know more about the world leaving them, often in a useful or important way. The fact that the city hall in question is a major city like Boston is interesting as well.
-New Tsai made me realize it's been 6 years since I've seen a film by him, which was Stray Dogs (which was easily his most demanding; IIRC the entire last half hour is comprised of 2 static shots where nothing changes). I think I'm ready for another.
-I'm weirdly interested in the new Cristi Puiu despite the fact I couldn't finish Sieranevada and I was disappointed in Aurora. But this director also made The Death of Mr. Lazarescu, one of the all-time best films of the '00s. A turn-of-the-20th-century period piece could bring something fresh out of him? Of course, it's 200 minutes, because Puiu is contractually obligated to make films over 3 hours or something.
-I never saw the film Run from the Ivory Coast (but wanted to), but good to see director Philippe Lacôte is not a one hit wonder (and is gaining recognition). Hopefully this one becomes available to U.S. viewers?
-A documentary about the history of the FBI's obsession with Dr. King is right in my wheelhouse. I'm predictable, I know. I literally can't resist a good civil rights doc.
-New Christian Petzold. :cheers: The plot description isn't super intriguing, but Petzold is a filmmaker who could direct a film about a washing machine and still take my breath away.
-Another Matías Piñeiro. :yucky: Can't fault them for inconsistency. I'll definitely skip this one. Also will probably skip the Rosi, as I thought the widely acclaimed Fire at Sea was absolutely terrible.
-For different reasons, related to my own mental health, I don't know if I can watch Time. It looks devastating, however.
-I hope I get to see the three Steve McQueen films in theaters.

-The most interesting films out of all of them are the ones where I have no familiarity with the director or stars. For instance: the Georgian film Beginning ("[a] devastating story of a persecuted family of Jehovah’s Witness missionaries from the perspective of a wife and mother"), the Norwegian Gunda (A wordless art documentary about pigs and piglets "that brings us uncommonly close to these creatures, and manages to express their consciousness without overtly anthropomorphizing them."), the LGBT romance/docufiction I Carry You With Me) (a love story set in Mexico in which one makes the choice to cross the border to the U.S.), and the Mexican Tragic Jungle ("Mexican filmmaker Yulene Olaizola immerses the viewer in a richly drawn, tactile experience that works as both a gripping adventure and a contemplative rumination on the brutality and splendor of nature.") The plot description for Tragic Jungle in particular is giving me Apichatpong Weerasethakul vibes, and it's been a while since we've gotten a proper hit of Joe.

P.S., going through the other sections now. Had no idea Spike Lee was directing David Byrne's new concert film. There's also a whole new section called "Currents" - meant to "compliment" the main slate - which essentially doubles the NYFF's lineup: https://www.filmlinc.org/nyff2020/sections/currents/. It includes a new Ruiz posthumously completed by his widow, new shorts by Jafar Panahi, Carla Simón, and Ben Rivers, and an 8-hour slice of life film about an aging housewife in Japan.

P.S.S. - speaking of virtual screenings by way of the Film Society of Lincoln Center, they're currently renting out a newly restored copy of Route One/USA for $10. For those who have seen it, is it worth the cost/4 hour commitment?
Last edited by outdoorcats on August 27th, 2020, 10:46 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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#19187

Post by PGonzalez » August 27th, 2020, 10:39 pm

Watched two new Rappaport videos, Anna/Nana/Nana/Anna and Conrad Veidt - My Life. Absolutely phenomenal, his approach to "biopic" is just so damn touching and entertaining!

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#19188

Post by blocho » August 28th, 2020, 3:31 am

outdoorcats wrote:
August 27th, 2020, 10:26 pm
I didn't even realize the NYFF had announced their Main Slate.
Ahh, it's that time of year again when my mother sends me weekly emails telling me what she wants me to see at the NY film festival.

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#19189

Post by mightysparks » August 28th, 2020, 3:39 am

outdoorcats wrote:
August 27th, 2020, 10:26 pm
I didn't even realize the NYFF had announced their Main Slate. I had thought the festival was cancelled. It appears it will be online, which makes it possible for me to actually attend this year. :)

https://www.filmlinc.org/nyff2020/sections/main-slate/
Haven't heard of any except Gunda, which I'm anxiously awaiting :(
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#19190

Post by outdoorcats » August 28th, 2020, 11:56 am

mightysparks wrote:
August 28th, 2020, 3:39 am
outdoorcats wrote:
August 27th, 2020, 10:26 pm
I didn't even realize the NYFF had announced their Main Slate. I had thought the festival was cancelled. It appears it will be online, which makes it possible for me to actually attend this year. :)

https://www.filmlinc.org/nyff2020/sections/main-slate/
Haven't heard of any except Gunda, which I'm anxiously awaiting :(
I wonder if the whole streaming thing will be tied to regions the same way it is with Netflix/Hulu/Amazon/etc?

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#19191

Post by beavis » August 28th, 2020, 12:41 pm

Pretentious Hipster wrote:
August 27th, 2020, 7:24 pm
Actually could be a cool question to ask here. I watched Spring Breaks the opening night. Packed to the brim. Maybe like a third of the theatre walked out, and it was dumb everyone did the "what the hell?!" kind of laughing.
Usually I don't see many people walking out of screenings. If it happens it is at a festival like the IFFR, but even there the walkouts used to be more frequent years back than they are now (tickets were cheaper and people were almost encouraged to be adventurous, a lot of people were seeking out experimental movies blindly in hope of being positively surprised). That said there is one VERY memorable screening (at the IFFR) were people almost RAN out, en masse, and I was one of a very few remaining seated. The movie was going into some very graphic territory, so I couldn't blame the audience, and in this case it even enhanced the experience for me (and better they all leave at once than a continous disrupting trickle of leavers).

that movie was
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/zelyonyy+slonik/
https://iffr.com/en/2005/films/green-elephant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Green_Elephant

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#19192

Post by pitchorneirda » August 28th, 2020, 2:05 pm

beavis wrote:
August 28th, 2020, 12:41 pm
Pretentious Hipster wrote:
August 27th, 2020, 7:24 pm
Actually could be a cool question to ask here. I watched Spring Breaks the opening night. Packed to the brim. Maybe like a third of the theatre walked out, and it was dumb everyone did the "what the hell?!" kind of laughing.
Usually I don't see many people walking out of screenings. If it happens it is at a festival like the IFFR, but even there the walkouts used to be more frequent years back than they are now (tickets were cheaper and people were almost encouraged to be adventurous, a lot of people were seeking out experimental movies blindly in hope of being positively surprised). That said there is one VERY memorable screening (at the IFFR) were people almost RAN out, en masse, and I was one of a very few remaining seated. The movie was going into some very graphic territory, so I couldn't blame the audience, and in this case it even enhanced the experience for me (and better they all leave at once than a continous disrupting trickle of leavers).

that movie was
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/zelyonyy+slonik/
https://iffr.com/en/2005/films/green-elephant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Green_Elephant
Oh thanks it's been years I couldn't remember the title of this movie and couldn't check it


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#19194

Post by galimx » September 1st, 2020, 3:55 pm

Anyone a fan of experimental films here? Lately i've been diving more and more into them...

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#19195

Post by Cocoa » September 1st, 2020, 6:46 pm

The Criterion Channel added more Agnès Varda films and shorts :wub: Some of the extras don't even have IMDb entries. I'm so glad I don't have to buy the big Varda box set to have access to all this stuff.

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#19196

Post by GruesomeTwosome » September 3rd, 2020, 3:03 am

Damn, Paul Thomas Anderson loves those Hoffmans. He is casting the late Philip Seymour Hoffman’s son, Cooper, in a lead role in his new film: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news ... -70s-drama
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#19198

Post by Onderhond » September 4th, 2020, 7:27 pm

Crazy Samurai Musashi

I rarely care for technical difficulty, but when a movie offers a 77 minute one-take action sequence where 1 guy fights off more than 500 adversaries, I can't help but be impressed. The film has been getting bad reviews, not too surprising because it's not a jolly action film, instead it feels closer to Izo, or the cinema of Tsukamoto (it actively seeks out the audience's breaking point), but boy is it a rush/trance.

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#19199

Post by Cocoa » September 5th, 2020, 12:56 am

There is going to be a Princess Bride reunion this month. They're going to read the script and there is a Q&A moderated by Patton Oswalt. All donations are going to the Democratic Party of Wisconsin (so this is a U.S.A. only event because of election laws regarding who can donate).


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#19200

Post by Dolwphin » September 5th, 2020, 4:20 pm

galimx wrote:
September 1st, 2020, 3:55 pm
Anyone a fan of experimental films here? Lately i've been diving more and more into them...
Wait, you like anime too? Hm, suspicious, you better liquidate a member from the Horror Mafia to prove your worthiness in our exclusively inclusive non-organization "Mafia". :ph43r:
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