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The Film Lounge

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Re: The Film Lounge

#18761

Post by brokenface » December 16th, 2019, 8:13 pm

matthewscott8 wrote:
December 16th, 2019, 3:05 pm
Also, can I watch 2017 Twin Peaks without having watched any of the rest of Twin Peaks? If not how would I do it?
Suppose you could but no idea why you would. The original series is great and holds up in a way that most old TV series do not.

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#18762

Post by dirty_score » December 17th, 2019, 1:48 pm

dirty_score wrote:
December 16th, 2019, 2:02 pm
Screener Season has begun. Uncut Gems is online! B)
2. Portrait of a Lady on Fire

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#18763

Post by Pretentious Hipster » December 17th, 2019, 2:10 pm

The perfect Christmas gift would be a release of Vitalina Varela

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#18764

Post by Good_Will_Harding » December 18th, 2019, 10:30 pm

FYI John Williams' score for Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker is available to listen online.



Regardless of the quality of these newer films in the series (or any of the past ones, really), the musical scores have been more or less the only reliably great thing about each entry in the franchise. And as a film score enthusiast in an age that's increasingly dominated by one-note, synthetic droning from a revolving door of Hans Zimmer clones, hearing a brand new blockbuster score from John Williams, in all its operatic, red blooded, fully orchestral glory, is really something to treasure. This exact music coming out ten to fifteen years ago probably would't be as noteworthy, but in 2019 it easily rises to the top of an otherwise unremarkable year for soundtrack buffs.

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#18765

Post by RedHawk10 » December 18th, 2019, 10:47 pm

matthewscott8 wrote:
December 16th, 2019, 3:05 pm
Also, can I watch 2017 Twin Peaks without having watched any of the rest of Twin Peaks? If not how would I do it?
Absolutely not (I'm afraid I have to strongly disagree with the suggestion that it works as a stand alone piece), and I'm baffled by how many people I've seen asking this. You'd be completely missing the entire narrative, thematic, structural, and even just purely emotional context of The Return by skipping everything that precedes it. It picks up directly where the original show and film left off. Why on earth would you want to do that?

Watch the first two seasons, then Fire Walk With Me, which acts primarily as a prequel to the show but also is extremely important in conveying what exactly Lynch is doing with the whole saga. I don't want to say much else before you've watched it, it's one of the last things I'd want to spoil. Then you watch The Return.

There is a stretch of what is essentially goofy filler in Season 2 that sucks because Lynch had very little to do with it, so that's a bit of a slog, but the Season 2 finale is in the conversation for best thing Lynch has ever directed, so yeah.

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#18766

Post by RedHawk10 » December 18th, 2019, 10:52 pm

Kublai Khan wrote:
December 6th, 2019, 7:35 pm
Why are they so in love with Twin Peaks?
Probably because it's the greatest artistic accomplishment from a filmmaker this decade, if I had to guess.

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#18767

Post by Pretentious Hipster » December 18th, 2019, 11:49 pm

I'd hardly call it that especially when the greatest film of all time was made this decade (The Turin Horse). Season 3 is fantastic for a tv show, but it had its share of filler like the one episode where Dougie only appeared to show a quick scene of playing catch, and the running gag of him being silly went on for way too long. Either way, it's fucking stupid to say it's so good that it's at the point where it can be on lists of entirely different mediums. I always loathed people putting it on their favourite films list. It's like that idiotic critic Henry Barnes who in 2017 put 2 video games on his top 5 films of 2017 (Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Odyssey).

That being said, watching Season 3 on its own is like watching the last third of a plot heavy film on its own, or reading the last 30 pages of a book on its own. You'll have no context as to wtf is going on. This happened in 2019 as well with the album Everywhere at the End of Time by The Caretaker. It's a concept album consisting of 6 parts, and you have to hear them all to get the big picture. For some reason everyone listened to the last one and the criticisms were that it was so confusing and they had no idea what was going on. Of course they would think that by jumping directly to the end of it.

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#18768

Post by fori » December 19th, 2019, 12:31 am

Not that I’m a big fan of Twin Peaks (or the turin horse) but tv is essentially “expanded cinema”. Do you have the same issue with P’tit Quinquin and other miniseries? What about video art? How about Netflix films and other things that never had a cinema run?

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#18769

Post by Pretentious Hipster » December 19th, 2019, 12:43 am

Yea miniseries are kind of like one season tv shows in my eyes. If I believed otherwise I would gladly put The Prisoner on my list for example, but I find it to be a different medium. Video art I'd say is a case by case basis. I mean, aren't a lot of avant-garde short films that? I wouldn't really call Light Describing a Cone a film though, as it literally uses filmstrips in a non-film setting. Netflix, and straight to video stuff are still films imo. There are still films that never had a theatrical distribution due to lack of finding a distributor. We could argue that streaming is the future and will kill theatres eventually too, so that's just the next step for films.

My opinion on miniseries did change recently, so I may have some on my favourite films list still that I added ages ago. Should fix that.

Even if you would argue that Twin Peaks is expanded cinema, then shouldn't the entire show be on a list as opposed to only one season? Especially one that isn't standalone.

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#18770

Post by Pretentious Hipster » December 19th, 2019, 12:45 am

This made me think of something interesting. There was a full motion video craze in the mid 90s for video games. They were hardly games and were more interactive movies. Would anyone say that those should count? You play for maybe 30 minutes and the rest is just watching cutscenes. I mean hell didn't a black mirror episode do that?

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#18771

Post by fori » December 19th, 2019, 12:56 am

Well I think there should be flexibility for critics when talking about episodes/seasons/series. Surely you aren’t advocating that we shouldn’t single out single episodes or seasons for congratulations or condemnation. But the truth is much like for video art, the distinction between television and cinema is arbitrary. It’s up to you if you want to strictly deal with theatrical releases (with or w/o video art) but publications like Cahiers du Cinema are legit when they adopt a different approach.
As a side note I think interactivity is a bit beyond the realm of cinema. We can argue about a small number of specific films and types of films (3D for instance) that are somewhat interactive, but at the end of the day, cinema is sight & sound. I don’t play video games or “use” VR, but it could be an amazing medium if used in the right way. I’d also love to see a great theorist tackle this new nexus like Deleuze for cinema. Most essays I’ve read (not many mind you) have been as underwhelming as my experience of the medium itself.

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#18772

Post by Pretentious Hipster » December 19th, 2019, 1:16 am

Video games is DEFINITELY behind as an artform, especially in terms of being avant-garde. There is Death Stranding which came out recently that was called the Tarkovsky of games, but I don't see the comparison. Video games have reached the point of having auteurism at least, like Hidetaka Suehiro's work. His most famous game is a parody of Twin Peaks and has the Guiness record for most polarizing game. I mean hell, it's finally reaching the point where stuff can deal with political and social issues. That shows how far behind it is.

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#18773

Post by fori » December 19th, 2019, 1:27 am

Yeah, I’m not inherently uninterested (quite the opposite in fact, I can see more potential than cinema). But prevailing currents in games, gameplay & gamer culture are terrible. I suppose it’s because the extremely low latency of the medium lends itself to repetitive design and emphasis on lowest common denominator reward schedules. The games become toxic, the community becomes toxic, then legitimate artists are turned off by the culture or have their work either ignored, condemned or at best controversial. But again I don’t play any games, that’s an outsider’s take. I know there are other factors too.

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#18774

Post by outdoorcats » December 19th, 2019, 1:31 am

What do you think of games such as

INSIDE
Journey
Shadow of the Colossus
Dear Esther
Gris
Broken Reality
The Norwood Suite

?

All are pretty auteuristic in my opinion with at least a couple bordering on experimental. INSIDE for example is an overwhelmingly powerful (if not pleasant or traditionally "fun") work of art.

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#18775

Post by Pretentious Hipster » December 19th, 2019, 1:48 am

outdoorcats wrote:
December 19th, 2019, 1:31 am
What do you think of games such as

INSIDE
Journey
Shadow of the Colossus
Dear Esther
Gris
Broken Reality
The Norwood Suite

?

All are pretty auteuristic in my opinion with at least a couple bordering on experimental. INSIDE for example is an overwhelmingly powerful (if not pleasant or traditionally "fun") work of art.
Played none of them :( I did play Limbo which are made the same developers. Will have to change that soon.

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#18776

Post by Pretentious Hipster » December 19th, 2019, 1:50 am

fori wrote:
December 19th, 2019, 1:27 am
Yeah, I’m not inherently uninterested (quite the opposite in fact, I can see more potential than cinema). But prevailing currents in games, gameplay & gamer culture are terrible. I suppose it’s because the extremely low latency of the medium lends itself to repetitive design and emphasis on lowest common denominator reward schedules. The games become toxic, the community becomes toxic, then legitimate artists are turned off by the culture or have their work either ignored, condemned or at best controversial. But again I don’t play any games, that’s an outsider’s take. I know there are other factors too.
You reminded me and I'll recommend these. These are avant-garde short films that use video game footage.

https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/psa ... he+shadow/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/reh ... etirement/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/fourth+era/

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#18777

Post by outdoorcats » December 19th, 2019, 2:20 am

INSIDE is a lot like Limbo, but where LIMBO was a mood piece without much of a developing narrative, INSIDE actually has sort of a "story." I put story in quotes because it's more of a nightmare that follows nightmare-logic, but it's a nightmare with a narrative arc and a climax of sorts. I don't think I should say much more other than it's probably the most disturbing game I've ever played. I played it in one sitting (for most people takes 3-4 hours) and then had to go for a long walk outside to get it out of my head.



Unrelated, but reviews of Cats are pretty entertaining. Ty Burr might have my favorite:
When I saw “Cats” at a preview screening the other night, something happened toward the end that I’ve never actually experienced at a movie before. It came as the legendary British actress Judi Dench, digitally pixelated into a giant orange tabby named Old Deuteronomy, spoke-sung the lyrics of the final number, “The Ad-dressing of Cats.” As Dame Judi carefully enunciated each verse, then paused, then started a new verse, the audience began to titter. Then laugh. Then roar. Because each pause seemed to signal — at long last — the film’s end, each new verse became a fresh source of hilarity. It was that rare occurrence: a packed theater going the full “Springtime for Hitler” and giving release to blessed, hard-earned mockery. I truly believe our divided nation can be healed and brought together as one by “Cats” — the musical, the movie, the disaster. In other news, my eyes are burning. Oh God, my eyes.

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#18778

Post by weirdboy » December 19th, 2019, 2:37 am

JOURNEY is another one along those lines.

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#18779

Post by fori » December 19th, 2019, 3:16 am

I’ve seen those shorts. I appreciate the idea, but find them minor :(
A friend of mine recommends shadow of the colossus. Haven’t played any of them though.

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#18780

Post by RedHawk10 » December 19th, 2019, 4:12 am

Pretentious Hipster wrote:
December 19th, 2019, 12:43 am
Even if you would argue that Twin Peaks is expanded cinema, then shouldn't the entire show be on a list as opposed to only one season? Especially one that isn't standalone.
Well, no. The Return was specifically written in the format of a film, and Lynch also considers it a film. I personally don't care what people call it though. I can see both sides of the argument. I basically see it like a miniseries conclusion to Twin Peaks - and I certainly count miniseries when looking at my favorite films.

Haven't seen The Turin Horse, but I like (but don't love) both Satantango and Werckmeister Harmonies - not sure I'm entirely on Tarr's wavelength, I like him best as a visualist.

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#18781

Post by weirdboy » December 19th, 2019, 4:17 am

RedHawk10 wrote:
December 19th, 2019, 4:12 am
Haven't seen The Turin Horse, but I like (but don't love) both Satantango and Werckmeister Harmonies - not sure I'm entirely on Tarr's wavelength, I like him best as a visualist.
If you want to know how to eat a potato, watch that movie.

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#18782

Post by RedHawk10 » December 19th, 2019, 4:18 am

weirdboy wrote:
December 19th, 2019, 4:17 am
RedHawk10 wrote:
December 19th, 2019, 4:12 am
Haven't seen The Turin Horse, but I like (but don't love) both Satantango and Werckmeister Harmonies - not sure I'm entirely on Tarr's wavelength, I like him best as a visualist.
If you want to know how to eat a potato, watch that movie.
I'm not sure whether this is meant to endear me to or put me off the idea of watching it, but noted :lol:

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#18783

Post by Pretentious Hipster » December 19th, 2019, 8:37 am

It's actually a good summary of it lol. It's a surprising reason as to why it's my #1. Out of all the films I've seen, it gave me the biggest emotional reaction. It's incredibly cathartic. I should note that it's a negative emotional reaction, and I understand why someone would wanna avoid that. I think that art that moves you like that is special, positive or negative.

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#18784

Post by dirty_score » December 19th, 2019, 6:08 pm

ICM's favorite director is coming in 2020:


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#18785

Post by OldAle1 » December 19th, 2019, 6:13 pm

I think it's unfair that the new decade will start with the OBJECTIVELY greatest film of the whole decade. Well, at least I can stop watching films soon - clearly there will never be anything better than this, best stop while I'm ahead.

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#18786

Post by dirty_score » December 19th, 2019, 6:48 pm

you're forgetting the Avatar sequels, those will be movie events of the decade! :whistling:

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#18787

Post by RedHawk10 » December 19th, 2019, 10:47 pm

Pretentious Hipster wrote:
December 19th, 2019, 8:37 am
I think that art that moves you like that is special, positive or negative.
Completely agree.

And Tenet...wow, that looks dull. LORD NOLAN at it again.

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#18788

Post by Pretentious Hipster » December 20th, 2019, 2:08 pm

The masterpiece the lighthouse is now online.

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#18789

Post by dirty_score » December 21st, 2019, 1:52 pm

Pretentious Hipster wrote:
December 20th, 2019, 2:08 pm
The masterpiece the lighthouse is now online.
in a nutshell:
SpoilerShow
dirty_score wrote:
December 17th, 2019, 1:48 pm
dirty_score wrote:
December 16th, 2019, 2:02 pm
Screener Season has begun. Uncut Gems is online! B)
2. Portrait of a Lady on Fire
3. Jojo Rabbit

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#18790

Post by Pretentious Hipster » December 22nd, 2019, 10:12 pm

I might have to see this


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#18791

Post by GruesomeTwosome » December 23rd, 2019, 12:41 am

Pretentious Hipster wrote:
December 22nd, 2019, 10:12 pm
I might have to see this

But you’d be seeing the “fixed” version now. I would have liked to see that original unfinished version, lol.
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#18792

Post by Knaldskalle » December 23rd, 2019, 4:55 am

Pretentious Hipster wrote:
December 22nd, 2019, 10:12 pm
I might have to see this

I saw the trailer when it was first posted here. That was more than enough to warn me off this one. It looks godawful.
ImageImageImageImage

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#18793

Post by Coryn » December 23rd, 2019, 5:46 am

Just seen Knives Out in the cinema and it's a lot of fun just like everybody said. Gave me Sherlock vibes
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#18794

Post by joachimt » December 23rd, 2019, 7:50 am

I'm going to see Cats in cinema in a few hours. Got a day with only my oldest daughter, so we decided to go see a movie and this seemed like the only mildly interesting movie today.
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#18795

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » December 23rd, 2019, 8:21 am

joachimt wrote:
December 23rd, 2019, 7:50 am
I'm going to see Cats in cinema in a few hours. Got a day with only my oldest daughter, so we decided to go see a movie and this seemed like the only mildly interesting movie today.
Uhhh, besides the fact that it's apparently a horrid movie, are you aware that everyone is calling it horny?
https://www.thecut.com/2019/12/cats-mov ... views.html

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#18796

Post by joachimt » December 23rd, 2019, 10:39 am

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
December 23rd, 2019, 8:21 am
joachimt wrote:
December 23rd, 2019, 7:50 am
I'm going to see Cats in cinema in a few hours. Got a day with only my oldest daughter, so we decided to go see a movie and this seemed like the only mildly interesting movie today.
Uhhh, besides the fact that it's apparently a horrid movie, are you aware that everyone is calling it horny?
https://www.thecut.com/2019/12/cats-mov ... views.html
Seriously? No, I wasn't aware. I didn't investigate it that much. I just checked the age restriction, which is "suitable for 6 years and older" in my country. My daughter likes cats and musicals, so it looked like a safe bet. A well, she's 9. She's not completely ignorant, so we'll see.
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#18797

Post by joachimt » December 23rd, 2019, 5:04 pm

Back from the cinema......

It wasn't horrible. It was just boring.
Everytime I saw Dench's hands, I saw normal human hands. Sometimes there was a ring on her left hand, sometimes on her right hand. The other cats had human hands as well, though there was a bit of fur on the wrists and the hand. One cat had more than the other. Judy Dench clearly had no fur on her hands. They just came out of a fur coat.
From the link PA posted above wrote:One group scene sees scores of cats writhing ecstatically on the floor, erect tails rising and quivering as one. Another sequence features Rebel Wilson’s mog spread-legged, scratching her groin with her hands and caressing it with her own tail. She also uses a rigid string of uncooked sausages as a microphone before ripping off her own fur to reveal another layer of fur and a pink, sequinned teddy — a shot that left many gasping.
To call a movie "horny" because of these is too exaggerated if you ask me. Cats spread their legs and lick or scratch their private parts. That's what they do, so this happens in the movie as well. Yes, Judy Dench spreads her legs as well. When the fat girly cat did that in the beginning of the movie, my daughter just thought it was funny.
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#18798

Post by GruesomeTwosome » December 23rd, 2019, 5:08 pm

joachimt wrote:
December 23rd, 2019, 5:04 pm
Back from the cinema......

It wasn't horrible. It was just boring.
Everytime I saw Dench's hands, I saw normal human hands. Sometimes there was a ring on her left hand, sometimes on her right hand. The other cats had human hands as well, though there was a bit of fur on the wrists and the hand. One cat had more than the other. Judy Dench clearly had no fur on her hands. They just came out of a fur coat.
Heh, sounds like the version with the "fixed" visual effects did not make its way to Dutch cinemas, lol.
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#18799

Post by joachimt » December 23rd, 2019, 5:54 pm

GruesomeTwosome wrote:
December 23rd, 2019, 5:08 pm
joachimt wrote:
December 23rd, 2019, 5:04 pm
Back from the cinema......

It wasn't horrible. It was just boring.
Everytime I saw Dench's hands, I saw normal human hands. Sometimes there was a ring on her left hand, sometimes on her right hand. The other cats had human hands as well, though there was a bit of fur on the wrists and the hand. One cat had more than the other. Judy Dench clearly had no fur on her hands. They just came out of a fur coat.
Heh, sounds like the version with the "fixed" visual effects did not make its way to Dutch cinemas, lol.
Maybe it'll be there for the premiere. This was a sneak preview. It's officially coming out here the 26th.
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#18800

Post by dirty_score » December 24th, 2019, 12:04 pm

dirty_score wrote:
December 17th, 2019, 1:48 pm
dirty_score wrote:
December 16th, 2019, 2:02 pm
Screener Season has begun. Uncut Gems is online! B)

2. Portrait of a Lady on Fire

3. Jojo Rabbit

4. A beautiful day in the neighborhood. merry christmas y'all :party:

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