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Do Bollywood films suck?

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Do Bollywood films suck?

#41

Post by RBG » December 15th, 2016, 10:22 pm

me three *shakes fist*
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#42

Post by xianjiro » December 21st, 2016, 12:21 pm

don't fall over each other rushing to see this one!Show

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#43

Post by jvv » December 21st, 2016, 2:01 pm

xianjiro on Dec 21 2016, 05:21:36 AM wrote:
don't fall over each other rushing to see this one!Show
That screenshot looks mighty inviting though. :whistling:

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#44

Post by xianjiro » December 21st, 2016, 9:47 pm

jvv on Dec 21 2016, 07:01:05 AM wrote:
xianjiro on Dec 21 2016, 05:21:36 AM wrote:
don't fall over each other rushing to see this one!Show
That screenshot looks mighty inviting though. :whistling:
Spoiler: click to toggleShow
they're wrestling, silly - not, well, we know how it looks, but I saw some other pictures of Khan bulked up and can't say it's unattractive - just wish we'd get past this body shaving obsession

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#45

Post by OldAle1 » May 13th, 2017, 10:46 pm

My take: I've only seen a few, but overall I've enjoyed everything I've seen - talking strictly the modern stuff here, classic Indian cinema (whether Hindi, Bengali or other) seems a different kettle of fish yet. Gangs of Wasseypur is the only one that strikes me as great, or close to it, but I honestly haven't found any of the others I've seen uninteresting. I do think it helps to like musicals and to like the mix of genres that's so common - given that Buffy the Vampire Slayer (which references Bollywood at least once I believe) is my favorite TV show a film like 24 or Endhiran is actually right up my alley.

And I very much agree with some of the other posters that Bollywood doesn't compare all that unfavorably to the megabudget American action/superhero/sci-fi shlock that dominates screens everywhere. If MCU films "deserve" placement on the IMDb top 250 and to make hundreds of millions of dollars I'm not sure why anybody is complaining about a few Bollywood films making inroads into lists.
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#46

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » May 13th, 2017, 11:00 pm

OldAle1 on May 13 2017, 04:46:37 PM wrote:If MCU films "deserve" placement on the IMDb top 250
They don't and they aren't on the list, though.

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#47

Post by GruesomeTwosome » May 13th, 2017, 11:09 pm

PeacefulAnarchy on May 13 2017, 05:00:04 PM wrote:
OldAle1 on May 13 2017, 04:46:37 PM wrote:If MCU films "deserve" placement on the IMDb top 250
They don't and they aren't on the list, though.
Not at this moment, but several of them have been on there for an extended period of time.
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#48

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » May 13th, 2017, 11:29 pm

The Avengers and Guardians are the only one I remember being there for longer than the first two weeks after release. They're also the only ones with a rating over 8.0 on imdb. Iron man and Civil War have 7.9, Winter Soldier has 7.8, Dr. Strange has 7.6, the other eight are all 7.4 or below.

Edit: Civil War was there for 4.5 months, I guess until home video release, similar for Winter Soldier a bit less than 4 months. Iron Man for 7 months back in 2008.
They drop off pretty quickly. Not saying their ratings aren't still fanboy inflated relative to their quality, but not in the same way some of these Bollywood films are.
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#49

Post by OldAle1 » May 14th, 2017, 12:03 am

Logan may not technically be in the MCU but it's in the top 100 at the moment and I doubt it will drop out of the 250 anytime soon; also, of course, all of NOLAN'S Batman films are high on the list (and admittedly even most "serious film buffs" seem to like the Nole a lot more than I do). But point taken: a lot of the Hollywood blockbuster crap does drop off the list within 6 months or so.

But the Bollywood stuff used to as well, or rather IMDb would manipulate it's algorithms so as to drop those films off within a few days of their appearance; for years only 3 Idiots was a constant on the list. In any case I don't see a big difference - both the mainstream American action stuff and the mainstream Bollywood stuff are mostly not films that are going to make it onto critic's lists, mostly not films that jaded adult film buffs are going to think are hot shit, but they will continue to dominate IMDb because people like us are only a tiny fraction of voters. So I really don't see why it matters whether Shawshank Redemption, The Dark Knight or Lagaan is topping the list; it has nothing to do with what I love film for, anymore than a greatest novels list filled with Stephen King and J.K. Rowling but lacking Marcel Proust and Tolstoy would be valuable.
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#50

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » May 14th, 2017, 12:32 am

I think I'm the only person in this thread to have expressed any sort of complaint about the Bollywood movies in the Top 250, and even I don't really care and mostly agree with you (except about Nolan, he's great). I just don't think the comic book movies, and US blockbusters in general, like them or hate them, are really the apt comparison for the highly rated Bollywood films, In terms of the list, things like The Help and Warrior, and even Shawshank, feel like more accurate comparables to the Bollywood entries, despite being stylistically very different. Films like 3 Idiots and Taare Zameen Par and Rang De Basanti don't feel like they're there because of being super entertaining blockbusters, but more because of their sentimentality and hamfistedly addressing "important issues."
Spoiler: click to toggleShow
Warrior is worse than anything else on the list, Bollywood or not, but that's not relevant to this thread
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#51

Post by xianjiro » May 14th, 2017, 1:41 am

yeah, nuanced isn't the word that screams to mind during Bollywood flicks

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#52

Post by xianjiro » July 24th, 2017, 6:34 pm

Just put the US disc for Dangal in the player and was shocked to see "Disney presents Aamir Khan Productions' 'Dangal' "

Think someone mentioned the fact around here before that Disney was in the Bollywood game now, but this the first time I've seen it emblazoned on a DVD menu. (Not that I'm watching that much current Bollywood stuff.)

Maybe Bollywood films are doing actual US box officewhatever we call post-theatrical release figures now? Or it the expat community just that big a market in North America at this point that a big 'studio' wants in on the action?

And remember, I saw your eyes roll - you know who you are! B)

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#53

Post by GruesomeTwosome » July 24th, 2017, 6:47 pm

xianjiro on Jul 24 2017, 12:34:18 PM wrote:Just put the US disc for Dangal in the player and was shocked to see "Disney presents Aamir Khan Productions' 'Dangal' "

Think someone mentioned the fact around here before that Disney was in the Bollywood game now, but this the first time I've seen it emblazoned on a DVD menu. (Not that I'm watching that much current Bollywood stuff.)

Maybe Bollywood films are doing actual US box officewhatever we call post-theatrical release figures now? Or it the expat community just that big a market in North America at this point that a big 'studio' wants in on the action?

And remember, I saw your eyes roll - you know who you are! B)
Yep, I believe it - I'm also noticing that more and more Bollywood films are getting theatrical releases all the time in my area (suburban area in the small state of Delaware, so I can imagine that this happens on an even larger scale in major US urban areas with a significant Indian population).
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#54

Post by xianjiro » October 25th, 2017, 6:16 am

Just finished Udta Punjab (2016) after putting it off for a number of weeks for the usual Bollywood reason - length and all the reading involved with minimal payoff but admit to being pleasantly surprised. Rather than the usual escapist tripe (with production numbers!) we had music intertwined with a fairly edgy (by Bollywood standards IMHO) story dealing with illicit drugs. I believe the title means "High Punjab" as in stoned - no hiking in the hills was this.

While I felt it was a bit overwrought with the whole "all drugs are evil" message, it did show how the illicit trade is problematic. And even at 248 minutes they didn't delve into the other side of the issue - why people choose drugs - it's rather the typical WoD messaging that it's the narcos and dealers that foist this on an unsuspecting public with the assistance of glorification of drug culture by popular (musical) media. :yucky: Much too simplistic for my taste, but it's a movie trying to convey a message to a given public.

The other thing that kind of annoyed me is the way they explain things to the audience - the good doctor goes online and finds out who the contact is for a drug company and she explains how she did to the low-level cop whose brother is in her clinic. For us Internet savvy folks it's annoying, but in a culture where some (many?) aren't websurfers (let alone literate), a bit of hand-holding can be tolerated.

Think this is something I'd recommend to those interested in seeing the Bollywood model worked to the cinematic standards we now expect in the west. It still relies quite heavily on the music (from what others have said, it can be assumed for financing) but without the dancing (so that might disappoint those that enjoy that sort of thing about Bollywood). Yes, a tad bit long, but it didn't feel as stretched out at those plot-thin romcoms where we know they're just dragging it out so they can work in two more musical numbers.

Maybe we need to compile our own list of BFTDS.

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#55

Post by Mario Gaborović » October 25th, 2017, 6:30 am

There's a guy named NRH at Super Champion Film Zone, rischka (RBG) will tell you more about him - who he is, where is he from, as I've got no clue. Anyway, he apparently watches nothing but Indian films and Bollywood, keeps praising them and rates 'em 8/10 and stuff. Sure he's having a great time watching same stuff, as he never tries anything else. But one glance at duration time of those films, and the fact that they are more or less the same populist thing, seems terrifying.
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#56

Post by tommy_leazaq » October 25th, 2017, 6:50 am

Bollywood is slowly changing from their usual useless rom-com stuffs these days. In fact you can trust the new Bollywood films if the lead actor is not any 45+ old actor.

If you like Udta Punjab's lead Shahid Kapoor, you can check out his Hamlet adaptation Haider (2014). It's one of the recent Bollywood films I liked basically for it non glorification of Indian army and neutral POV on Kashmir issues which you wont see in any other Indian films.
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#57

Post by xianjiro » October 25th, 2017, 9:28 am

tommy_leazaq on Oct 25 2017, 12:50:46 AM wrote:Bollywood is slowly changing from their usual useless rom-com stuffs these days. In fact you can trust the new Bollywood films if the lead actor is not any 45+ old actor.

If you like Udta Punjab's lead Shahid Kapoor, you can check out his Hamlet adaptation Haider (2014). It's one of the recent Bollywood films I liked basically for it non glorification of Indian army and neutral POV on Kashmir issues which you wont see in any other Indian films.
Yeah, I do like his stuff, have seen Omkara and Kaminey though only remember Omkara at this point. Am trying to watch Maqbool, but the library disk is badly scratched. (Huge Macbeth fetish here)

Thanks for the heads up!

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#58

Post by dirty_score » November 17th, 2017, 11:43 pm

not really a bollywood movie per se but..



or how Brie Larson's Basmati Blues & other lost movies A listers wish had stayed buried

and yes, the thumbnail is the perfect clickbait.

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#59

Post by OldAle1 » November 18th, 2017, 6:58 pm

My god that trailer is horrible! Ugh, I just hope it doesn't end up being Donald Sutherland's last film.
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#60

Post by Onderhond » November 19th, 2017, 10:05 am

I'm pretty neutral towards Bollywood, in the sense that while I generally don't enjoy the films, the same goes for Hollywood stuff as well.

My gripe with Bollywood is that it largely eclipses any other film that comes from India. It wasn't until last year I found that they actually have some pretty interesting genre films there. It's a good thing Netflix offers a more varried selection, but apparently it's not really pushing people to watch those films.

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#61

Post by Pretentious Hipster » November 19th, 2017, 11:14 pm

Sholay was way too long and its comedy turned me off but it wasn't too bad. I think that it does deserve to be on the canon lists. If some Hollywood films are there for being iconic, then so should this. Keep that shit consistent.
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#62

Post by xianjiro » November 20th, 2017, 6:03 am

I know Bachchan is something above an icon - don't remember the name, but one movie is about a guy traveling across country as his father's dying wish: to have Bachchan eat some homemade delicacy that frankly looks kind of gross

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#63

Post by xianjiro » December 24th, 2017, 10:40 pm

I've added a new poll about IMDb's "Top Rated Indian Movies" list. Find it here
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#64

Post by Armoreska » December 25th, 2017, 3:50 pm

xianjiro on Dec 24 2017, 03:40:44 PM wrote:I've added a new poll about IMDb's "Top Rated Indian Movies" list. Find it here
Proposition defeated
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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo

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#65

Post by tommy_leazaq » December 25th, 2017, 3:54 pm

xianjiro on Dec 24 2017, 03:40:44 PM wrote:I've added a new poll about IMDb's "Top Rated Indian Movies" list. Find it here
It should be a replacement for the existing Bollywood list


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#67

Post by Armoreska » December 25th, 2017, 6:54 pm

Time Out London list is ranked so that's a plus
Then again NDTV list is the shortest so that's a major plus!
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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo

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#68

Post by xianjiro » December 26th, 2017, 3:21 am

:folded: I see that! Vote stuffing an iCMforum poll? How rude!

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#69

Post by RBG » December 26th, 2017, 4:16 am

time out london list is ranked but sholay is #1?? come on
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#70

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » December 26th, 2017, 4:20 am

RBG on Dec 25 2017, 09:16:24 PM wrote:time out london list is ranked but sholay is #1?? come on
What would you put number one? Mother India?

Remember this is Bollywood, not Indian film in general.

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#71

Post by Minkin » December 26th, 2017, 5:06 am

tommy_leazaq on Oct 6 2016, 03:40:58 AM wrote:Regarding the length, Indian audience (at least till last decade) love to watch every genre mixed as a nice package in a film. You will have bit of drama, musical numbers, comedy, romance, action and some thrills in a single film. In recent times only, coupled with this generation's low attention span, people have been accepting single genre films.
Back when I took a course on the history of India, and the professor spent some time talking about Bollywood and how it doesn't translate to US audiences. It was something along this lines, but I recall him saying that audiences expect / demand every emotion be represented in the film - and feel like they need to experience such to get their money worth. He said that this can lead to filmmakers throwing everything together without much thought - like cutting to a starving orphan kid right after a big happy love dance sequence. I suppose Indians also enjoy extreme contrasts.

As for my own experiences with the cinema, its mostly been very negative from the limited amount I've seen - like really trying my best to push through until the end (perhaps stopping and coming back several days later once I've regained some patience). But perhaps I've just struck out badly with the ones I've chosen (never again Lamhe).

I did watch this movie a few years ago, after having seen this clip on Youtube and somehow managing to track it down by checking through some Sony India distributor page.... and honestly I can't remember much beyond that song sequence. There were some guys who had their shoes stolen, and then somehow vampires appear at some point, but the rest was just instantly forgettable (though I can't remember anything about Lamhe other than hating it ... and I'm not the type of person to forget easily).

I understand their significance/importance/etc and there's of course things that don't translate well to other cultures (like century eggs and lutefisk). I do like the idea of having lists just to bring some level of pain to all of you ICM addicts. Like, you're going to track down and watch tens of thousands of films beyond what the typical person will see in their lifetime - you might as well experience all that that entails (+possibly find a gem or two in the process). Sometimes you must suffer in order to appreciate things (did I cover every emotion in this post?).

That or perhaps watch with an (Indian) audience? Perhaps the right cues / communal experience might aid in the enjoyment.

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#72

Post by xianjiro » December 26th, 2017, 6:40 am

:thumbsup: ^

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#73

Post by RBG » December 26th, 2017, 6:54 am

PeacefulAnarchy on Dec 25 2017, 09:20:05 PM wrote:
RBG on Dec 25 2017, 09:16:24 PM wrote:time out london list is ranked but sholay is #1?? come on
What would you put number one? Mother India?

Remember this is Bollywood, not Indian film in general.
5 & 6 on that list are two of the best indian films i've ever seen. 14, 20 & 40 are all better than sholay imo :/ and i've only seen 16/100

i dunno how sholay became such a thing. it's fun but it's just a glorified curry western
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#74

Post by Fergenaprido » December 26th, 2017, 4:55 pm

Minkin on Dec 25 2017, 10:06:47 PM wrote:That or perhaps watch with an (Indian) audience? Perhaps the right cues / communal experience might aid in the enjoyment.
This has proven to be the best way for me to enjoy films from entirely foreign cultures for me, not just Bollywood or other Indian cinema. It also helps if you are able to pause at points to ask questions about items that a native audience would be fully familiar with, but a foreign audience wouldn't understand the cultural references.

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#75

Post by dirty_score » January 23rd, 2018, 7:57 pm

Munna Bhai M.B.B.S. finally fell from the IMDb's Top 250! :banana:


Now, with a little help from the hindu gods, if we could take out A Wednesday (#202) I could finally go for plat for the very first time!

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#76

Post by xianjiro » May 3rd, 2018, 9:38 am

Broke down and added IMDb's Top Rated Indian Movies as my second list just now - my goal is to 'update' the list, though I'm guessing I'll just replace it on a regular interval rather than trying to compare and move titles. I'm guessing this list changes daily?

Had thought about nominating it for the upcoming official poll but didn't have the time before the deadline and knew a number of people would just crap on it so decided to do it on my own timeline and terms.

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#77

Post by Mysterious Dude » May 3rd, 2018, 3:12 pm

I've had a hard time finding any Bollywood films that don't suck.

It's hard to find the good ones using IMDB because so many of them have a rating of 8.0 or higher, but that doesn't seem to be connected to the actual quality in the films. Indian audiences just love their movies!

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#78

Post by joachimt » May 3rd, 2018, 6:42 pm

xianjiro on May 3 2018, 03:38:02 AM wrote:my goal is to 'update' the list, though I'm guessing I'll just replace it on a regular interval rather than trying to compare and move titles. I'm guessing this list changes daily?
What do you mean by this? Replace the whole list like delete the old one and add it again? No need to do that. The easiest way to do is update the list using the tab "by IMDb Movie Url(s)". There you just remove all the urls and paste the list of urls for the update. Just a few clicks and all the changes in the list (places up and down, new) will be recorded automatically.
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#79

Post by RBG » May 3rd, 2018, 6:48 pm

Mysterious Dude on May 3 2018, 09:12:45 AM wrote:I've had a hard time finding any Bollywood films that don't suck.

It's hard to find the good ones using IMDB because so many of them have a rating of 8.0 or higher, but that doesn't seem to be connected to the actual quality in the films. Indian audiences just love their movies!
Awaara (1951) Raj Kapoor
Pyaasa (1957) Guru Dutt
Guide (1965) Dev Anand

or if you want something more modern

Dil Se... (1998) SRK
Main Hoon Na (2004) SRK
Om Shanti Om (2007) SRK
Band Baaja Baaraat (2010)
Gangs of Wasseypur (2012)

don't resist fun. if you don't acquire a taste for indian music i probably can't help you though
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#80

Post by xianjiro » May 4th, 2018, 8:11 am

joachimt on May 3 2018, 12:42:27 PM wrote:
xianjiro on May 3 2018, 03:38:02 AM wrote:my goal is to 'update' the list, though I'm guessing I'll just replace it on a regular interval rather than trying to compare and move titles. I'm guessing this list changes daily?
What do you mean by this? Replace the whole list like delete the old one and add it again? No need to do that. The easiest way to do is update the list using the tab "by IMDb Movie Url(s)". There you just remove all the urls and paste the list of urls for the update. Just a few clicks and all the changes in the list (places up and down, new) will be recorded automatically.
cool! thanks! :thumbsup:

With only the one tiny list up to now, I haven't really done much with lists so didn't really know how/what was possible (thus why I procrastinated) - think I'll do an update now as you suggest just to see how it takes, plus the sooner I develop a process, the sooner I'll get it honed down to make it as easy as possible.

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