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Netflix

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Netflix

#1

Post by 3eyes »

I remember in the '50s and '60s when the American railroads were trying to get rid of their passenger business and the service got worse and worse. Now Netflix (US at least) is obviously trying to get rid of their DVD rental business. Currently 20% of the films on my DVD queue are "Very Long Wait" and it now takes at least 4 days to get the next movie instead of the previously normal 2 days. You have to wait a week to complain that the NF hasn't received a movie you sent. About 1 disk out of 4 is cracked and you no longer have the option of asking them to send the next thing on your queue before you return it. You can only ask for a replacement, which would take weeks to come and be cracked again, so what's the point? Netflix blames all this on the Post Office, but I suspect they have closed down my local distribution center and/or laid off half of the staff there and are just dragging their feet about checking stuff in.

Well, so I'm looking for alternative sources. I do have scruples about getting stuff from KG that is supposedly available at a reasonable price elsewhere. (Where do we draw the line?) It took 3 years to get Sound of Music. I've been trying to get Badlands for about 6 months and NF says it's available and then as soon as I move it to the top of my queue it's Very Long Wait again. It's Criterion, so I looked on Hulu Plus (which I'm reluctant to subscribe to as long as they have ads), but they didn't have it. Then I discovered I can rent it to stream on Amazon for $1.99 and did that. Rental good for 30 days.

Sorry for the rant - anyone have other strategies?
Last edited by 3eyes on June 27th, 2014, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#2

Post by VincentPrice »

The Criterion movies don't have any commercials, the only stuff that does on Hulu Plus are TV shows and the movies that are available to non-Plus subscribers.

And not really, it's a shame Netflix is neglecting that part of the business but everything now is going to streaming.
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#3

Post by sebby »

If you live in a decent sized city you should still have DVD rental stores in your area. In my area there are places that specialize in indie/foreign films as well as more standard fare.

If you have a decent public library system there's that, too.

In addition to Amazon, you can also rent films from YouTube, Vudu, iTunes, and Google Play.

And if you're in the US there's Redbox for typical mainstream trash.
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#4

Post by Knaldskalle »

There are other DVD rental-by-mail outfits, but none of them are anywhere near the size of Netflix. There's Greencine, there's Classicflix and there's Facets Video (there may be more, but these are the ones I know of). They're generally known for being slower than Netflix (fewer distribution hubs) and it may take you a really long time to get what's in your queue.

For streaming, Hulu Plus has the Criterion Collection movies and Fandor.com has Kino Video movies.

I use a combination of my local library and Netflix, plus Youtube and "other sources" for stuff these don't provide.
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#5

Post by Laydback »

I feel your pain
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Well, I guess the good news is that there's more film afficianados out there than I thought!
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#6

Post by metaller »

We in Germany never had Netflix, but Lovefilm serviced the DVD rentals + streaming quite well, and although a bit pricier than what I gather Netflix costs in the USA, I was really happy with the rotation, giving me usually 4 discs a week (two discs at once, each time) for about 18 € a month.

Now Lovefilm was fully incorporated into amazon, and my option doesn't even exist anymore for new customers (the existing two discs at once guys got grandfathered in), and I fear that sometime they'll degrade me to one disc at a time. Also, the rotation got slower and over a month I now get about 3-4 discs less.
Also, I get the feeling that they have less new releases than before.
I wouldn't even mind streaming so much, but their selection isn't that fine and for most of the stuff there isn't an original language + subs option, and I for sure won't want to watch all the stuff dubbed. Beside that I have a crappy slow internet connection, which makes streaming often no pleasure.

I hate it when a well working service that I really like gets worse :(
Last edited by metaller on June 28th, 2014, 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#7

Post by 3eyes »

Update: So after I paid $2 to rent Badlands from Amazon, it suddenly turned up in a Netflix envelope. There had been no notice at the top of my queue that it was en route or that the movie I sent back on Wednesday had been received, nor had I got any emails. So I (gulp) called them, expecting to spend the morning on hold, but I got someone right away and they told me that a) they've stopped shipping DVDs on Saturdays; b) my email provider has been bouncing their emails; c) the thing that updates the shipping status is down at present. They assured me that they were working on b) and c). As for a), well it's back to the status quo ante, OK, I can live with that.

I guess I just have to be more laid back about the whole thing. Go write poetry, shovel out the house. Thanks for suggestions and commiserations, folks. I might subscribe to Hulu Plus yet.
Last edited by 3eyes on June 28th, 2014, 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#8

Post by Knaldskalle »

3eyes on Jun 28 2014, 09:11:31 AM wrote:Update: So after I paid $2 to rent Badlands from Amazon, it suddenly turned up in a Netflix envelope. There had been no notice at the top of my queue that it was en route or that the movie I sent back on Wednesday had been received, nor had I got any emails. So I (gulp) called them, expecting to spend the morning on hold, but I got someone right away and they told me that a) they've stopped shipping DVDs on Saturdays; b) my email provider has been bouncing their emails; c) the thing that updates the shipping status is down at present. They assured me that they were working on b) and c). As for a), well it's back to the status quo ante, OK, I can live with that.

I guess I just have to be more laid back about the whole thing. Go write poetry, shovel out the house. Thanks for suggestions and commiserations, folks. I might subscribe to Hulu Plus yet.
Netflix customer service has always been really good, no matter what other bad decisions they've made, this they do right.

Stopped shipping on Saturdays? That's new to me, but like you say, it's back to the old days, they didn't always ship Sat. No matter, the trick to optimizing your disc deliveries is to return them on a Saturday so Netflix has them Monday morning. That's the time of the week where they have the largest stock of titles "at home".

And for what it's worth, my queue (of 254) has 56 titles on "very long wait", that's about 22%. I used to have only a handful of titles on "very long wait", but that all changed in early May.
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#9

Post by 3eyes »

Thanks, Knaldskalle. Good tip about Saturday/Monday.

Maybe I'll call them again anon and see what they can tell me about the VLW. What's confusing is that it'll say VLW on a title and then it doesn't, so I put it atop my queue and immediately it's VLW again. Only a few short and long waits. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to it. I've read that the studios are trying to gouge them over prices for replacement copies - that might have sth to do with it. And maybe there's more wrong with their system than just the shipping updates.

To be fair to NF, there's a lot of Schadenfreude going on too - everybody hates a frontrunner. I haven't heard the kind of awful stuff about NF that one hears about amazon and Walmart - exploiting employees and such - have you?
Last edited by 3eyes on June 28th, 2014, 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#10

Post by funkybusiness »

From my experience*, a very long wait is an indicator that Netflix only has one copy of that film in your distribution area/district/section/whatever + the length of the queue of people wanting that film. It's not a very good indicator of time it will actually take for you to get the film. About the disc becoming "very long wait" when you put it at the top, I think that's because that single disc won't be (or, there system thinks it won't be) available for some time versus it being a short wait if you let that film slowly move up your queue because I believe netflix takes that into account as far as calculating who receives the film next (that is, how long you've had it in your queue guarantees you a better spot than others. If you add a new title to the top of your list say a month before it's available, you're higher on that disc's queue than someone who adds it the day it comes out. Apply that method to all of the others discs annnd...)

I'm not sure what I said makes sense but it's something to think about.

*I've received a disc that was "very long wait" and it was busted so I sent it back and then that film because completely unavailable! So. Last disc, as far as I can tell. It was one of those film noir boxset double feature discs, if I remember correctly.
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#11

Post by 3eyes »

Funky, that makes sense. So shall I put all 50 VLWs at the top of my queue and see what happens? I might just do that, and stick to KG and streaming let the chips fall where they may with the DVDs.

They do sometimes, (or did until recently) send something from another part of the country as an extra disk because of the delay. It was often cracked, but I appreciated their trying.
Last edited by 3eyes on June 28th, 2014, 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#12

Post by Local Hero -- aka MestnyiGeroi »

Yes, I have been complaining about Netflix for a long time. From a cinephile's point of view, they have gone from being the best thing since sliced bread to a company that seems absolutely determined to ruin everything that was so great about them. They seem desperate to morph into the next Blockbuster.

That said, in a business sense, I think they are doing extremely well now. I have heard amazing numbers about the share of U.S. Americans who are now watching material on Netflix at any given time. It's only from the perspective of people who actually love film beyond the Blockbuster mold that they have been declining so much for years.

Anyway, Netflix for me is nowhere near as bad as it is for you, 3. I have the same problems as you, but to a much lesser degree. It's probably one of the perks of living in NYC, which I assume has to be a major distribution hub for them.
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#13

Post by Knaldskalle »

funkybusiness on Jun 28 2014, 12:40:00 PM wrote: If you add a new title to the top of your list say a month before it's available, you're higher on that disc's queue than someone who adds it the day it comes out.
Actually, it doesn't work that way. What Netflix does if the demand is higher than the supply is send it to the customer with the lowest "usage" of the service (it's called "smoothing" internally, "throttling" by everyone else). So those who only return a disc once a week or so get a higher priority than those who always return the disc the day after they receive it. It's annoying for those of us who are "high volume users" but it's hard to argue with the fairness of it. After all, the "low volume renter" in effect pays more per rental than the "high volume one". You can read about it in the Terms of Service, there was even a class action lawsuit over it.

The main reason that the "very long wait" status fluctuates is that the system doesn't calculate the exact status for your entire queue, but is trying to predict whether or not they'll have your top choice in stock whenever you happen to return your old rental. Think about it, they have to try to predict if/when they get the title back from another costumer and when your old rental comes back to them. If, say, they get 5 copies back Monday, they'll send those 5 copies out to the five people who have that as their top choice and who returned a rental on that same day. If your rental comes in Tuesday, you're out of luck, unless someone else has returned the movie you want on a Tuesday. This gets further complicated by the fact that most people watch their movies over the weekend, then return them Monday (meaning Netflix has them Tuesday), so those days are the busiest in the distribution centers. That's why returning a movie in time for the Saturday postal collection (so Netflix has it Monday morning) is the smart move, you're beating the rush.

It's not secret that Netflix is going to phase out DVD rentals at some point. The streaming business is what they want to do, even though it wasn't profitable for them for a number of years (DVD rentals subsidized Netflix's streaming business for at least the first three years). So enjoy it while you can, make the most of it and then leave when it no longer works for you (after all, there's no point in giving them money if you don't think you're getting what you're paying for).
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#14

Post by funkybusiness »

Interesting. and I now totally remember reading all about that "throttling" stuff.


and yeah, 3eyes, best to keep your "very long wait" titles at the top.
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#15

Post by Knaldskalle »

Just found the relevant section of the Netflix ToS (my highlight):
In determining priority for shipping and inventory allocation, we may utilize many different factors, including the number and type of DVDs you rent through our service, the membership plan you select, as well as other uses of our service by you. For example, if all other factors are the same, we give priority to those members who receive the fewest DVDs through our service. The type, number, mix and weighting of the various factors impacting shipping and inventory allocation will change from time to time and will be made in our sole and absolute discretion. As a result of your viewing habits and our operational practices, the actual number of DVDs you rent in any month may vary, and you may experience differentiated service during the course of your membership. Also, such service may be different from the service we provide to other members on the same membership plan. The type of differentiated service you may experience includes, (i) the shipment of your next available DVD occurring at least one business day following return of your previously viewed DVD, (ii) delivery taking longer, as the shipments may not be sent from your local distribution center and (iii) the DVDs you receive coming from lower in your Queue more often than our other members. These effects will not occur unless we are faced with limited inventory at your local distribution center or when the number of shipments to be processed by that distribution center on that day is exceeded. In our unlimited plans, we do not establish a monthly limit on the number of DVDs you can rent.
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#16

Post by 3eyes »

Well, it seems that NF is at least cleaning up their act to the extent of going through their inventory to see what DVDs they actually have. Lately they've been sending me lists of films on my queue that they no longer offer or have relegated to the saved section. So at least they're making an effort to be honest.

On the streaming front, they have taken to offering foreign films without subtitles (Violette and The French minister) and repeated squawking has done no good whatsoever.

I get one film at a time, which usually means 2 a week, and mainly depend on KG and youtube etc for the rest. Plex allows me to watch KG and youtube on our non-TV (it would be a TV if we had cable) although both are kind of temperamental, especially about subs; VLC on my laptop works fine. So basically I have adjusted to the status quo and am pretty content - it isn't as if I have time to watch all the movies I'd like to see anyhow.
Last edited by 3eyes on December 16th, 2014, 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#17

Post by Knaldskalle »

3eyes on Dec 16 2014, 11:51:10 AM wrote:Lately they've been sending me lists of films on my queue that they no longer offer or have relegated to the saved section. So at least they're making an effort to be honest.
Lately they've been removing titles from my saved section (it dropped by 70 titles one day), so my queue gets shorter every day whether I want it to or not. Add to that the fact that around 20% of my queue has "very long wait" status and they continue to remove titles from the queue to the saved section without notifying me and I'm less than thrilled with them right now.
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#18

Post by Local Hero -- aka MestnyiGeroi »

Knaldskalle on Dec 16 2014, 12:34:45 PM wrote:
3eyes on Dec 16 2014, 11:51:10 AM wrote:Lately they've been sending me lists of films on my queue that they no longer offer or have relegated to the saved section. So at least they're making an effort to be honest.
Lately they've been removing titles from my saved section (it dropped by 70 titles one day), so my queue gets shorter every day whether I want it to or not. Add to that the fact that around 20% of my queue has "very long wait" status and they continue to remove titles from the queue to the saved section without notifying me and I'm less than thrilled with them right now.
Exactly the same here. Occasionally, clumps of films are just dropped from my queue without warning, and without a way for me to tell what was just lost. How seriously Netflix has gone downhill for the cinephile, as they've morphed their business model into the modern form of Blockbuster.

I would be absolutely livid if it weren't for KG, which tells me that no film that drops off Netflix is really lost. :shifty:

EDIT: Just scrolled up and I see I said some of the same things in this thread six months ago. :lol:
Last edited by Local Hero -- aka MestnyiGeroi on December 16th, 2014, 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#19

Post by Knaldskalle »

Local Hero -- aka MestnyiGeroi on Dec 16 2014, 12:44:23 PM wrote:
Knaldskalle on Dec 16 2014, 12:34:45 PM wrote:
3eyes on Dec 16 2014, 11:51:10 AM wrote:Lately they've been sending me lists of films on my queue that they no longer offer or have relegated to the saved section. So at least they're making an effort to be honest.
Lately they've been removing titles from my saved section (it dropped by 70 titles one day), so my queue gets shorter every day whether I want it to or not. Add to that the fact that around 20% of my queue has "very long wait" status and they continue to remove titles from the queue to the saved section without notifying me and I'm less than thrilled with them right now.
Exactly the same here. Occasionally, clumps of films are just dropped from my queue without warning, and without a way for me to tell what was just lost. How seriously Netflix has gone downhill for the cinephile, as they've morphed their business model into the modern form of Blockbuster.

I would be absolutely livid if it weren't for KG, which tells me that no film that drops off Netflix is really lost. :shifty:

EDIT: Just scrolled up and I see I said some of the same things in this thread six months ago. :lol:
I've started saving the html page regularly, so I can go back and compare to find the titles that have suddenly vanished. I understand that it's a business and they can't please everyone, but is it too much to ask that they let me know when they remove stuff?
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#20

Post by watchayakan »

Would you guys recommend Fandor?
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#21

Post by 3eyes »

Would you guys recommend Fandor?
Knaldskalle (post #4 above), says "For streaming, Hulu Plus has the Criterion Collection movies and Fandor.com has Kino Video movies."

that's all I know. I'm doing well enough with NF, KG, youtube and sometimes Amazon Instant Prime (which is very hard to navigate, though). It's mainly a matter of being a bit more flexible than I've gotten used to being these past few years. Still beats being limited to what's playing in local theaters.

Meanwhile: Did anyone just get surveyed by NF? They asked things like whether I thought NF cared about its customers and I said not really, but they weren't interested in finding out why.
Then they asked me to name 2 films I'd seen that I considered mindbending, so I went to my KG list and picked a couple that they probably never heard of, like Mogholha.
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#22

Post by Knaldskalle »

3eyes on Jan 6 2015, 10:35:39 PM wrote:Meanwhile: Did anyone just get surveyed by NF? They asked things like whether I thought NF cared about its customers and I said not really, but they weren't interested in finding out why.
Then they asked me to name 2 films I'd seen that I considered mindbending, so I went to my KG list and picked a couple that they probably never heard of, like Mogholha.
I love your survey responses! Subverting the dominant paradigm one reply at a time.
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#23

Post by 3eyes »

Look what I just got in my email from NF.

Returning Disc Notice

The Postal Service sent word that you've returned a DVD to us; so we were able to ship your next available disc sooner.

We'll send you a detailed returned disc email upon receipt.


Being how it's Saturday night and they no longer ship on Saturdays it doesn't make much sense -- anybody else get this?
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#24

Post by Onderhond »

A bunch of Youssef Chahine films were added here, most of them seem to be official. Not sure which countries got them, but I would be surprised if it's just Belgium.
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#25

Post by OldAle1 »

Onderhond wrote: June 18th, 2020, 1:59 pm A bunch of Youssef Chahine films were added here, most of them seem to be official. Not sure which countries got them, but I would be surprised if it's just Belgium.
Thanks for the alert. The only one that's on the American channel at the moment is El-Akhar, listed as L'autre. I've seen that one and would recommend it to... well, here's my review, judge for yourself:

El Akhar / L'autre / The Other (Youssef Chahine, 1999)

A very wealthy, alcoholic Christian American woman (played by an Egyptian actress who isn't ever convincing as an American), has an unhealthy fixation on her only son, who wants to marry a young Muslim woman, whose brother may or may not be a terrorist; the mother spies on her son's activities by computer, the young woman is a struggling journalist trying to expose a scam involving her would-be mother-in-law and a bunch of other wealthy capitalists; an architect who seems above it all is invited to plan a giant pan-religious theme park of sorts; Edward Said makes an appearance; there's a rape or at least assault that is just there and then mostly forgotten about; a couple of hotel employees get involved in exposing the scam, both related to the young woman; the best friend of the groom is in Algiers, trying to avoid terrorists, but fate has something else in store...oh, and for the first half, this is more-or-less a musical. Absolutely bizarre "interesting failure" from Chahine involving many of his preoccupations - perverse sexual mores, beefcake posing, Douglas Sirk-style melodrama (the American mother can easily be imagined as Joan Crawford or Bette Davis, circa 1955), religious intolerance, and on and on and on. This is a whacked out film with enough plot for a 3-hour epic or a miniseries, but as a 105-minute work it's hard to tell whether it's deliberate camp or an impassioned plea for tolerance and brotherhood that just didn't turn out right. I don't know what it is, I had fun with it personally but no question it's a hot mess.
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#26

Post by OldAle1 »

Ooh, I'm wrong, there are actually a whole bunch - a dozen. Weird that searching for "Chahine" just gave me the one initially.
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#27

Post by Onderhond »

Yeah, I remembered you were quite into Iranian/Arab (? - sorry if I'm mixing things up) cinema. Not really my thing, but do want to try Cairo Station :)
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#28

Post by OldAle1 »

Onderhond wrote: June 18th, 2020, 2:30 pm Yeah, I remembered you were quite into Iranian/Arab (? - sorry if I'm mixing things up) cinema. Not really my thing, but do want to try Cairo Station :)
I'm interested in Middle Eastern cinema in general, yeah; Egypt is the largest and most important of the Arabic-language film producing countries, in fact the only one with a really significant cinematic presence that goes back before WWII. And Chahine is pretty widely considered the greatest all-time Egyptian director, though how much he really deserves that is open to question given how little Egyptian cinema is widely available to people who don't understand Arabic. Anyway I've seen 7 of his features and 1 short and pretty much love his work overall - the one I gave a review to above is my least-favorite overall though it's certainly interesting. Given your tastes it's hard to imagine you finding much appeal but I've given up on predicting people's opinions on things even when they are much closer in taste to me than you are, so who knows? Cairo Station is most definitely late-period film noir, though perhaps with more melodrama than usual, which sure doesn't seem the recipe for something you'd like. Chahine's own lead performance in the film has to rank as one of the greatest of all time for me, a fascinating tragic portrayal from a director akin in some respects to Renoir in Rules of the Game or Hou in Taipei Story. They were probably all channeling Chaplin...
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#29

Post by Onderhond »

Visually it looks interesting, it's the sound I'm more worried about (music + conversation). Anyway, you'll probably see it pop up in next week's week-thread. I hope you've found at least some new films to watch :)

It's a shame Netflix is so random, even though they mostly do modern stuff, they do add batches of relatively obscure world cinema from time to time. And you have to play close attention not to miss them.
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#30

Post by OldAle1 »

Onderhond wrote: June 18th, 2020, 3:01 pm Visually it looks interesting, it's the sound I'm more worried about (music + conversation). Anyway, you'll probably see it pop up in next week's week-thread. I hope you've found at least some new films to watch :)

It's a shame Netflix is so random, even though they mostly do modern stuff, they do add batches of relatively obscure world cinema from time to time. And you have to play close attention not to miss them.
I already had copies of all but one of those, but it does look like these are really cleaned up or restored prints in most cases, so that's great. Saladin in particular - a big-budget war epic that seems comparable in intentions to something like Lawrence of Arabia - really seems like something you'd want to see in a quality edition.

But who knows how long they'll have them? And I really haven't been watching much lately, going through a lull, hard to be interested in film or much of anything else right now.
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Cinepolis
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#31

Post by Cinepolis »

No Chahine on German Netflix.
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#32

Post by Prat »

Onderhond wrote: June 18th, 2020, 1:59 pm A bunch of Youssef Chahine films were added here, most of them seem to be official. Not sure which countries got them, but I would be surprised if it's just Belgium.
They are on Netflix France, too. It was a nice surprise ; recently it seems that Netflix France adds classic films (Chaplin, Demy, Truffaut too). The Chahine movies were added yesterday in France.
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bal3x
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#33

Post by bal3x »

Is there are way to somehow cross reference Netflix website with IMDb/iCM?
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#34

Post by brokenface »

bal3x wrote: June 19th, 2020, 1:59 pm Is there are way to somehow cross reference Netflix website with IMDb/iCM?
I don't know a way to do that directly, but if you import an IMDB list (watchlist or whatever) to Letterboxd, you can filter there using the Services dropdown to see what is available on netflix/other services. that uses info imported from Justwatch
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#35

Post by maxwelldeux »

brokenface wrote: June 19th, 2020, 2:05 pm
bal3x wrote: June 19th, 2020, 1:59 pm Is there are way to somehow cross reference Netflix website with IMDb/iCM?
I don't know a way to do that directly, but if you import an IMDB list (watchlist or whatever) to Letterboxd, you can filter there using the Services dropdown to see what is available on netflix/other services. that uses info imported from Justwatch
This is what I do, except on Trakt.tv - I imported most of the lists I care about from ICM to Trakt, then I can a) filter a specific list, or b) search [platform]'s entire catalogue and note which ones pop up on my lists. Trakt also uses JustWatch data.
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Post by bal3x »

OK, thanks guys!
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#38

Post by bal3x »

Yeah, that is the problem, they have different selections for different regions and it makes tracking things much more difficult. Cannot even browse the selection without paying...

There's https://unogs.com/ but this one is also limited to a few countries.
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#39

Post by OldAle1 »

Well, the Arabic films are very exciting, though I've seen quite a few of them. I'll have to try to do some prioritizing, and at least make sure to see whether anything there is hard to find elsewhere.

One of the things I don't see mentioned in the "leaving" list is Cheers which I've been belatedly catching up to. And guess what - the DVD box set is being discontinued at the same time as well. So basically NBC-Universal wants to force you to subscribe to their new service if you want to watch that show - and I haven't looked, but I'm guessing a bunch of other shows will be going out of print as well, and possibly disappearing from local TV stations; I catch an episode of Seinfeld now and then and I won't be surprised if that's no longer an option.

Regardless of the specific examples which people may or may not care about, it's clear that these companies are more and more aggressively trying to push streaming of their own sites as the ONLY option - no more physical media, no more showing on free tv. A world in which if we like a broad spectrum of entertainment we'll have to subscribe to 15-20 different services - or pirate shit, or buy OP physical media at inflated prices. I decided to bite the bullet and get Cheers just before it went "off the market" - it was $75 or so I think when I ordered it a week ago - now the lowest-priced copy on Amazon is $118. This is the future.
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#40

Post by mightysparks »

I haven’t watched TV (like normal TV or Foxtel, only streaming or pirating) in about 15-18 years and I’m sure that’s the norm by now so I’m not really surprised. I also haven’t bought physical media in years due to annoying region restrictions constantly stopping me from being able to watch them on any of my devices. I despise Netflix selections and the way they do things though so I hope the streaming services get less stupid. But probably not.
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