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Last Movie Seen

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Onderhond
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Re: Last Movie Seen

#2081

Post by Onderhond » February 29th, 2020, 2:02 pm

Children of the Sea. 2019 was another landmark year for (feature) anime it seems.

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#2082

Post by Kublai Khan » March 4th, 2020, 10:55 pm

Is this somehow a check?


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#2083

Post by OldAle1 » March 4th, 2020, 11:31 pm

Kublai Khan wrote:
March 4th, 2020, 10:55 pm
Is this somehow a check?

I don't see it listed on either icm or imdb so... ???

And the Peter Jackson-izing of silent cinema continues...

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#2084

Post by cinewest » March 9th, 2020, 8:58 am

Saw Phantom Thread the other night, and came away feeling that PTA is one of the true American master filmmakers.

One of the reasons I say this is that the story, characters, and issues at the center of the film are not really ones that attract me, per se, but in the hands of an artist (painter, writer, filmmaker, whatever) any subject can become fascinating, not only because it is treated with great care and control (stellar craft and technique) , but because it forges its own path, and creates indelible memories along the way.

Phantom Thread didn't speak to me enough on a personal level to become one of my favorite films of the decade, but it is an exquisite work of narrative cinema by a filmmaker at the peak of his powers.

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#2085

Post by Onderhond » March 9th, 2020, 9:56 am

Hmm, I found Phantom Thread to be quite derivate, lacking spark, innovation and vision. A film from a man who lost his drive and has fallen back on predictable and accepted formula that are sure to win him some critical respect. From the 7 PTA films I've seen, it's the one I rated the lowest.

Finally watched Hanagatami this weekend. It's quickly becoming a modern cult favorite and an EN-friendly release is planned later this year. Not surprised the film is doing so well, it's certainly unique and different, but not quite strong enough to keep me 160 minutes engaged. Recommended for people who liked Suzuki's Pistol Opera (crazy director who gives it his all one last time).

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#2086

Post by cinewest » March 9th, 2020, 11:35 am

Onderhond wrote:
March 9th, 2020, 9:56 am
Hmm, I found Phantom Thread to be quite derivate, lacking spark, innovation and vision. A film from a man who lost his drive and has fallen back on predictable and accepted formula that are sure to win him some critical respect. From the 7 PTA films I've seen, it's the one I rated the lowest.

Finally watched Hanagatami this weekend. It's quickly becoming a modern cult favorite and an EN-friendly release is planned later this year. Not surprised the film is doing so well, it's certainly unique and different, but not quite strong enough to keep me 160 minutes engaged. Recommended for people who liked Suzuki's Pistol Opera (crazy director who gives it his all one last time).
RE. Phantom Thread, I think you might be confusing disinterest with the subject matter and style with vision and craftsmanship. It's probably the film of his that least attracted me, but I thought his idea and execution were flawless, as were the performances of the actors. The stye of the film was restrained, but it was in character with story and its subtle, building tension. The film may have lacked the passion and panache of PTA's earlier works (some of which I also prefer), but his expertise in every respect has increased pretty much film by film.

Sounds like it just wasn't your thing, but I disagree that it was predictable, formulaic and lacked vision

As for Hanagatami, it's on my "to see" list, but not easy to track down, so it'll probably be awhile before I see it.

On another note, I wonder if you found the two lists I posted of contemporary Korean films?

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#2087

Post by Onderhond » March 9th, 2020, 11:50 am

Phantom Thread has a lot of "craftsmanship", but that's rarely something that attracts me in a film. I felt the film tried very hard to be deep and serious (acting, music, visuals), but none of it hit home, which made it very overblown and self-important. I felt the central romance was pretty flat and lifeless, which characters that were clichés rather than living & breathing humans. I also didn't find it very subtle, on the contrary. It's true that the subject matter didn't really appeal to me up front though, but good direction easily gets around that. I just didn't find it here.

As for Hanagatami, it'll be released later this year on Third Windows Films, so it'll be quite easy to track down then. It's quite cult/camp though (it's from the Hausu director after all), so not sure what you'll make of it.

And I noticed the SK lists you posted, but I'm really not a big fan of SK cinema. I keep track of Ki-duk and the more prominent films from that country, but most attempts to dig a little deeper has ended in disappointment.

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#2088

Post by cinewest » March 9th, 2020, 12:59 pm

Onderhond wrote:
March 9th, 2020, 11:50 am
Phantom Thread has a lot of "craftsmanship", but that's rarely something that attracts me in a film. I felt the film tried very hard to be deep and serious (acting, music, visuals), but none of it hit home, which made it very overblown and self-important. I felt the central romance was pretty flat and lifeless, which characters that were clichés rather than living & breathing humans. I also didn't find it very subtle, on the contrary. It's true that the subject matter didn't really appeal to me up front though, but good direction easily gets around that. I just didn't find it here.

As for Hanagatami, it'll be released later this year on Third Windows Films, so it'll be quite easy to track down then. It's quite cult/camp though (it's from the Hausu director after all), so not sure what you'll make of it.

And I noticed the SK lists you posted, but I'm really not a big fan of SK cinema. I keep track of Ki-duk and the more prominent films from that country, but most attempts to dig a little deeper has ended in disappointment.
I didn't sense that PT was trying hard to be anything, but rather developed a way of telling the story that fit, and one of the things that I appreciated about it was how much care was given to every detail and aspect of the film.

Like I said in my OP, the characters and the story weren't things I felt great affinity with, so my applause is entirely for the way PT was able to win me over and draw me into a world and way of life I wouldn't naturally connect to, and I thought it cinematically sublime. I also found the characters very believable, and the performances outstanding, so we disagree in a big way about the direction.

I do agree with something that may be a bit under the surface of what you have said about PT, as well as the most recent SK cinema, that neither have the kind of vitality of the films they made 15-25 years ago, when both were making their first marks internationally, even as their films were messier and not as mature or refined.

My favorite kind films tend to be somewhere in the middle, between "new voices" and "overly controlled," which is a criticism I can accept about PT. If I were to use the films of Wong Kar-wai for example, I would say that I liked the films between 1994 and 2004 the most, and think that Chungking Express was is first film that completely succeeded, while yet still having a certain rawness about it, and that 2046 was probably his last that still contained some creative passion. With someone like Scorsese, I would say from Taxi Driver to Goodfellas.

That said, I really can't say I've seen much of anything fresh coming out of East Asia, except China (and previously, South Korea), where there is a growing number of arthouse filmmakers on the fringes of the industry (I have been living in Beijing for the past 5 years, and have found it very difficult to track down most of the films I am interested in. Conversely, when I was in Brazil for 3 years prior, I was able to find most of what I was interested in, there). And my argument in support of recent films from SK has less to do with freshness than mastery. Beoning, for example, was the best film I saw in 2018.
Last edited by cinewest on March 9th, 2020, 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#2089

Post by Onderhond » March 9th, 2020, 1:15 pm

I know there's a very strong Japan-Brazil connection (not sure why though, but it's there), so maybe that goes for other Asian countries too (France has a similar connection with Asia). I think the 00s were way more interesting than the 10s for Asian cinema in general, with Taiwan finally moving on from the "New Wave", Japan blossoming again, South-Korea beating Hollywood at its own game and China finally embracing all kinds of cinema. There have been smaller revolutions during the 10s, but mostly in areas I think are beyond your interest (Ken Ninomiya is an interesting new name, Sono finally reaching his full potential, also 2019 was a great year for anime). But you have to do your best to find these films, because we're mostly stuck now with the established critical darlings from the 00s.

I think where we differ the most is that you seem to appreciate something like craftsmanship, whereas I see it as a natural enemy of creativity. I prefer vitality over endless grooming of details, one of the reasons why I also dislike 70s USA cinema, which often feels endless and dull to me. It's a different way of looking at cinema and I've long accepted that my view doesn't correspond to the majority, but it explains why I'm not liking PTA's most recent films as much.

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#2090

Post by cinewest » March 9th, 2020, 1:39 pm

@Onderhond,

I revised and added some examples of what I was talking about, but it's hard to over generalize.

Yeah, we definitely differ about craftsmanship being the enemy of creativity, though I will say it can be. Depends on whether it lifts creativity to the heights or snuffs it out altogether, and I would say that all films can be measured on a scale like this, where commercialism is often the biggest killer of all.

As for American cinema in the 70's, I would say that it was probably at its apex, and think it was thoroughly invigorated by European art cinema as much as the social issues of the time before it was simultaneously killed off by the "blockbuster," and new entertainment package that won out by the end of the decade.

And while an American indie movement began to grow in the mid 80's, I found the "cinema" (especially in the 90's) to be about as uninspiring as possible, with the emphasis being on scripts about dysfunctional relationships (some of them well written) but with a dirth of cinematic imagination (PTA was one of the very few American filmmakers from the 90's who actually had some cinematic ambition). Thankfully, I there seems to be a few new, more interesting American filmmakers who have emerged in the 2010's.
Last edited by cinewest on March 9th, 2020, 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#2091

Post by cinewest » March 9th, 2020, 1:39 pm

double post

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#2092

Post by dinah » March 10th, 2020, 7:44 am

Onderhond wrote:
February 29th, 2020, 2:02 pm
2019 was another landmark year for (feature) anime it seems.
Any recommendations? Waiting for Children of the Sea myself, as well as Ride Your Wave, though I doubt they will be played here much/at all.
Weathering with You is currently playing at some places, but I've yet to see a Shinkai movie I've really enjoyed, so I'm not too fussed about seeing it.

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#2093

Post by Onderhond » March 10th, 2020, 8:54 am

Haven't seen the new Shinkai yet either (though I do like most of his work), but Promare and Children of the Sea set the bar pretty high. I liked Ride Your Wave, but was a little disappointed. Not Yuasa's best. The new Cencoroll was pretty cool, Keiichi Hara's The Wonderland doesn't look too bad either and I expect a lot from Human Lost.

Also have major expectations of Junk Head, but that's 2017.

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#2094

Post by dinah » March 10th, 2020, 9:15 am

Right, forgot about Promare. I wasn't aware that Hara had a new film out already with The Wonderland, so that's a nice surprise. Maybe that will motivate me to finally watch Summer Days with Coo.

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#2095

Post by Coryn » March 12th, 2020, 7:38 pm

Amarcord (1973) by Fellini

Is there something wrong with me ? There are definitely a handful of movies I've seen by renowned directors (e.g. Tati, Allen) that I didn't like, with most though I can see why they are or were so important for movies in general. Fellini though leaves me completely confused. There is literally nothing I learn, like or can take from his movies and I can't really see what anyone would like about it ?

I'm really curious if anyone can tell me why Fellini is so renowned and admired by many ?
I saved Latin, what did you ever do ?

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#2096

Post by OldAle1 » March 12th, 2020, 7:43 pm

Coryn wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 7:38 pm
Amarcord (1973) by Fellini

Is there something wrong with me ? There are definitely a handful of movies I've seen by renowned directors (e.g. Tati, Allen) that I didn't like, with most though I can see why they are or were so important for movies in general. Fellini though leaves me completely confused. There is literally nothing I learn, like or can take from his movies and I can't really see what anyone would like about it ?

I'm really curious if anyone can tell me why Fellini is so renowned and admired by many ?
There have been a few lengthy discussions about him since I've been on this forum, I think most have been in the Favorite Directors polls. Take a look here and follow the thread -

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4780&p=624930&hilit=fellini#p624930

Can't really offer much personally, the only films of his I've seen in the last decade are Toby Dammit (short) and Amarcord and I loved both but didn't write anything up on them and wouldn't really be able to offer much of an argument or defense at the moment. I'm halfway contemplating going through his whole filmography this year though, in part just because he seems to have fallen off the map, at least on this forum.

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#2097

Post by blocho » March 12th, 2020, 9:41 pm

I can't speak for others' impressions of Fellini, and I would never try to tell someone what they should take from a movie, so I can only record my own reactions. And I would add the caveat that it's been years since I've seen the movies I'm going to mention.

So there are a few things that appeal to me about Fellini
- For one, when I think of movies like Nights of Cabiria and I Vitelloni, I think he's able to convey social dynamics and particular cultures with what feels like authenticity.
- I think his occasional indulgences of sentimentality feel emotionally genuine and earned rather than trite or forced, even when he's dipping into surrealistic territory (I'm think here especially of the end of Cabiria).
- More than any filmmaker I've seen, he's a master of conveying nostalgia through cinema. And I give him credit for dealing with nostalgia as a complex emotion rather than a simple longing for the past. I'm thinking here especially of I Vitelloni and Amarcord.

But all this is very subjective. I can't and won't argue with anyone who feels none of these things about Fellini.

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#2098

Post by PGonzalez » March 12th, 2020, 10:39 pm

blocho wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 9:41 pm
More than any filmmaker I've seen, he's a master of conveying nostalgia through cinema. And I give him credit for dealing with nostalgia as a complex emotion rather than a simple longing for the past. I'm thinking here especially of I Vitelloni and Amarcord.
As someone who owes his interest in cinema to Fellini, this is probably the major point. Nostalgia is something difficult to convey, and usually ends up being portrayed in an unnervingly saccharine way (Cinema Paradiso, Back to the Future, Butch Cassidy, that sort of thing). With Fellini, the sweetness there is real, and so is the pain. Filming his childhood with this emphasis on the duality of nostalgia, being able to convey the sweetness of his childhood memories and the bitterness of not being able to go back, is something that I rarely see in other directors. Also, I find that what he did with Dolce Vita was absolutely astounding because he was able to transpose this way of filming to a whole era, and was able to film something that was happening right then and there both with the freshness of someone who was living it and the distance of someone who was looking back on it. He did the same with his "documentaries" (I Clowns, Intervista), and most of his later films were about trying to come to grips with old age as a sort of new childhood (Ginger e Fred, E la Nave Va...).

I'd argue that he might have some trouble connecting with newer generations because we seem to be phasing out the harsh divide that there used to be between childhood and adulthood. Keeping in touch with one's childhood is now something that's kind of expected, and the increase in leisure time and ways of enjoying that time have greatly contributed to that (videogames, tv-shows, even movies: the whole geek culture is mainly about perpetuating childhood), so I understand that a lot of people are having more and more difficulty connecting with his concerns.
I'd also argue that this idea of perpetuating childhood seems to have existed in the US for a longer time, which might also help to explain why the newer generation of american critics never seemed to hold him in the same level as Antonioni, Bergman, Godard, etc.

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#2099

Post by cinewest » March 13th, 2020, 6:28 am

Coryn wrote:
March 12th, 2020, 7:38 pm
Amarcord (1973) by Fellini

Is there something wrong with me ? There are definitely a handful of movies I've seen by renowned directors (e.g. Tati, Allen) that I didn't like, with most though I can see why they are or were so important for movies in general. Fellini though leaves me completely confused. There is literally nothing I learn, like or can take from his movies and I can't really see what anyone would like about it ?

I'm really curious if anyone can tell me why Fellini is so renowned and admired by many ?
Amarcord is one of my favorites by Fellini, and probably among my top 100 films, but as I have already discussed Fellini and his work at length at least a couple of times on this board, I don’t want to rehash.
Quite simply, Fellini is renowned for his cinematic imagination, which is impossible to deny whether you happen to like what he imagines and riffs about or not.

As a couple of the other posters have pointed out, nostalgia and memory are some of the things that he dives into, but so do other very popular filmmakers on this board, like Wes Anderson, or Almodovar who have clearly been inspired by Fellini.

Perhaps it is his surrealistic touches, which tend to involve exaggerated humor in the style of a cartoonist (something he was prior to his film career), but then, again, some popular filmmakers here come to mind, Jean Claude Jeunet, for one, the Coen Brothers, even Bong Joon-ho to some extent.

A lot of people here just don’t seem to resonate, for whatever reasons, and perhaps filmmakers with pronounced styles have a a greater chance of becoming dated (the way a vast number of older films have to me), especially when they wander afield from established genres.

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#2100

Post by Onderhond » March 21st, 2020, 5:10 pm

Ki-duk's Human, Space, Time and Human.

What different times we live in. 15-20 years ago this would've been an instant cult hit and Asia/Tartan Extreme (or whatever label) favorite. Nowadays it's a bunch of whining about violence and repetition. It's not a typical Ki-duk film, but the parallel with Mother! is clearly there. I guess the recent allegations have colored the reviews too, but I really liked the film a lot.

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#2101

Post by cinewest » March 22nd, 2020, 1:33 am

Onderhond wrote:
March 21st, 2020, 5:10 pm
Ki-duk's Human, Space, Time and Human.

What different times we live in. 15-20 years ago this would've been an instant cult hit and Asia/Tartan Extreme (or whatever label) favorite. Nowadays it's a bunch of whining about violence and repetition. It's not a typical Ki-duk film, but the parallel with Mother! is clearly there. I guess the recent allegations have colored the reviews too, but I really liked the film a lot.
I haven't seen that one, but one filmmaker we seem to agree on is Kim-Ki-duk, who has been my favorite South Korean filmmaker ever since I first began seeing his films at the SF International about 20 years ago. I now put Lee Chang-dong on the same pedestal, though they are very different stylistically.

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#2102

Post by Onderhond » March 22nd, 2020, 8:19 am

@cinewest: I don't think I'd easily recommend this one to you though. It's a rather big departure from Ki-dik's earlier work, even the "crazier" films like Moebius. The plot is actively driven by some magical realistic elements and there's only a limited focus on characters, something that for me has always defined Ki-duk's work. Not sure how you took to Aronofsky's Mother!, but that film for me is the clearest reference.

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#2103

Post by cinewest » March 22nd, 2020, 8:54 am

Onderhond wrote:
March 22nd, 2020, 8:19 am
@cinewest: I don't think I'd easily recommend this one to you though. It's a rather big departure from Ki-dik's earlier work, even the "crazier" films like Moebius. The plot is actively driven by some magical realistic elements and there's only a limited focus on characters, something that for me has always defined Ki-duk's work. Not sure how you took to Aronofsky's Mother!, but that film for me is the clearest reference.
I liked Aronovsky's Mother (it made my yearly top 10), and consider my taste to be fairly broad, provided the film is well done, and doesn't look like something I've seen a bunch of times before. My original background is in writing and literature, but I also studied photography and became passionate about the expressive capabilities of narrative film more than 40 years ago (even made a bunch of shorts in my late 20's). I tend to like filmmakers that push the envelope in terms of how they use the medium, even those working more conventionally, and I have always appreciated Kim Ki-duk for those reasons.

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#2104

Post by Onderhond » March 22nd, 2020, 9:55 am

I think Ki-duk's latest is definitely original enough, but it's not very subtle (and that's an understatement). Neither was Mother! of course, but Ki'duk's latest is more in line with the crudeness of films like Moebius, something most Ki-duk fans seemed to actively dislike. Somehow I also figured that wouldn't be your kind of thing. But if you liked Mother!, it's a definite maybe :)

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#2105

Post by Onderhond » March 23rd, 2020, 9:25 pm

Just watched The Hunt, what a fun film that was. The US really needs some self-mockery if a film like that is already problematic. Makes fun of both sides, is hilariously blunt and provides some good laughs. Shame they had to postpone this one twice.

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#2106

Post by Kondoro » April 1st, 2020, 8:22 pm

Yesterday I've watched 'El Hoyo'. It was fine.

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#2107

Post by kongs_speech » April 5th, 2020, 7:04 am

I used Kanopy to watch one of Godard's lesser-known features, Helas Pour Moi. I don't think I fully understood it, but it held my attention. Right now I believe it to be among his lesser work that I've seen, but I would still give it a 3.5/5.

The other films I watched yesterday:

Pi - I saw Darren Aronofsky's debut film many years ago, but that whole period of my life is a haze in my memory, so this was for all intents and purposes a first viewing. The loud, noisy electronic score and grainy black and white cinematography contributes notably to the schizophrenic feel of the movie. Aronofsky is a master of cinematic anxiety, and that's what Pi is all about. I will not forget it again. 4/5

Angela's Ashes - I had wanted to see this for many years, and it did not disappoint. A heartbreakingly sincere Irish tragedy well directed by Alan Parker. 4/5

The Way of the Gun - I watched this because I like Ryan Philippe. It's a pretty decent crime drama. I find Juliette Lewis inconsistent as an actress, but she stood out to me here in a positive way. The action-packed finale was cool. 3.5/5

Totally Fucked Up - This should have been my kind of film, but it wasn't. I bet I would have dug it if I was still in high school, but I'm in my late 20s now, and the heavily dramatic, angsty characters annoyed me. Perhaps I've been spoiled by Penelope Spheeris' masterful The Decline of Western Civilization Part III - and to be fair, that film is a documentary, while Totally is scripted - but the film didn't feel authentic to me. Most of the actors are pretty bad. The soundtrack elevates things a little. I can't be too harsh on anything that uses my beloved Red House Painters. 2.5/5

Trans-Europ-Express - A kooky French New Wave masterpiece. It's just a thoroughly watchable, fun flick with style to spare, and I love that it doesn't take itself too seriously. 4.5/5
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#2108

Post by joachimt » April 6th, 2020, 3:36 pm

Twentynine Palms
SpoilerShow
So what was this all about? We follow two completely uninteresting seemingly random people on a trip to wherever. According to the plot synopsis he has something to do there (photography, scenery), but we never see anything about this. We just go along with the two driving around the area. They say they love each other, but we have no idea why. Their sex doesn't really look like love to me. He lets her drive his car on a bumpy road with bushes, but is afraid to get a little scratch. Weirdo. Then they have a fight and she walks out of him. We don't know why, but we certainly don't care. Then they get back together and again we don't know why. Then suddenly he gets fucked in the ass, so at least something noteworthy happens in the movie. But by that time I couldn't care less about the characters. To top this off he butchers her. Again I'm clueless.
I wasn't a big fan of Dumont already, but this was by far the worst I've seen by him.
3/10
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#2109

Post by kongs_speech » April 6th, 2020, 8:46 pm

joachimt wrote:
April 6th, 2020, 3:36 pm
Twentynine Palms
SpoilerShow
So what was this all about? We follow two completely uninteresting seemingly random people on a trip to wherever. According to the plot synopsis he has something to do there (photography, scenery), but we never see anything about this. We just go along with the two driving around the area. They say they love each other, but we have no idea why. Their sex doesn't really look like love to me. He lets her drive his car on a bumpy road with bushes, but is afraid to get a little scratch. Weirdo. Then they have a fight and she walks out of him. We don't know why, but we certainly don't care. Then they get back together and again we don't know why. Then suddenly he gets fucked in the ass, so at least something noteworthy happens in the movie. But by that time I couldn't care less about the characters. To top this off he butchers her. Again I'm clueless.
I wasn't a big fan of Dumont already, but this was by far the worst I've seen by him.
3/10
When I saw this film in 2011, I called it the worst movie I had ever seen. However, I have since become a big fan of Bruno Dumont, so it's currently sitting on my computer awaiting a rewatch. It draws comparisons to Carlos Reygadas' equally challenging / sexually explicit Battle in Heaven, which I love, so I'm hoping to appreciate it more this time.
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#2110

Post by joachimt » April 7th, 2020, 5:25 pm

kongs_speech wrote:
April 6th, 2020, 8:46 pm
joachimt wrote:
April 6th, 2020, 3:36 pm
Twentynine Palms
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So what was this all about? We follow two completely uninteresting seemingly random people on a trip to wherever. According to the plot synopsis he has something to do there (photography, scenery), but we never see anything about this. We just go along with the two driving around the area. They say they love each other, but we have no idea why. Their sex doesn't really look like love to me. He lets her drive his car on a bumpy road with bushes, but is afraid to get a little scratch. Weirdo. Then they have a fight and she walks out of him. We don't know why, but we certainly don't care. Then they get back together and again we don't know why. Then suddenly he gets fucked in the ass, so at least something noteworthy happens in the movie. But by that time I couldn't care less about the characters. To top this off he butchers her. Again I'm clueless.
I wasn't a big fan of Dumont already, but this was by far the worst I've seen by him.
3/10
When I saw this film in 2011, I called it the worst movie I had ever seen. However, I have since become a big fan of Bruno Dumont, so it's currently sitting on my computer awaiting a rewatch. It draws comparisons to Carlos Reygadas' equally challenging / sexually explicit Battle in Heaven, which I love, so I'm hoping to appreciate it more this time.
I expected you to reply since I saw you have P'tit Quinquin in your all time top 10. I almost disliked that one as well, but it certainly wasn't as bad as this one. I've seen six Dumonts till now and nothing comes above 6/10. I had a hard time looking at your top 10, seeing Magnolia :wub: next to a Dumont :yucky: .
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kongs_speech
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#2111

Post by kongs_speech » April 7th, 2020, 7:17 pm

joachimt wrote:
April 7th, 2020, 5:25 pm
I expected you to reply since I saw you have P'tit Quinquin in your all time top 10. I almost disliked that one as well, but it certainly wasn't as bad as this one. I've seen six Dumonts till now and nothing comes above 6/10. I had a hard time looking at your top 10, seeing Magnolia :wub: next to a Dumont :yucky: .
Fair enough! He's certainly not for everybody. Cahiers adores him, though. They liked his Joan of Arc prequel musical a lot more than I did, though I still found it decent.
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#2112

Post by St. Gloede » April 7th, 2020, 7:25 pm

Helas pour moi is actually one of my favourite Godards, but I am realizing I desperately need to return to it as while many visuals are burnt into my mind, I just realized I can not articulate a proper case for it.

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#2113

Post by kongs_speech » April 7th, 2020, 8:00 pm

St. Gloede wrote:
April 7th, 2020, 7:25 pm
Helas pour moi is actually one of my favourite Godards, but I am realizing I desperately need to return to it as while many visuals are burnt into my mind, I just realized I can not articulate a proper case for it.
interesting. Last night, I watched For Ever Mozart, and I enjoyed it more. The somewhat fragmented story makes it an experimental film too, but I just liked it more than Helas pour moi for some reason.
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#2114

Post by Onderhond » April 7th, 2020, 8:58 pm

Just watched Seven Stages to Achieve Eternal Bliss. Fans of Jim Hosking should really try this one. Not quite as good, but still very weird, eccentric and funny.

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#2115

Post by St. Gloede » April 7th, 2020, 9:55 pm

kongs_speech wrote:
April 7th, 2020, 8:00 pm
St. Gloede wrote:
April 7th, 2020, 7:25 pm
Helas pour moi is actually one of my favourite Godards, but I am realizing I desperately need to return to it as while many visuals are burnt into my mind, I just realized I can not articulate a proper case for it.
interesting. Last night, I watched For Ever Mozart, and I enjoyed it more. The somewhat fragmented story makes it an experimental film too, but I just liked it more than Helas pour moi for some reason.
Essentially every JLG film post Weekend is experimental in one way or another, though some more than others. I wonder what you will think when you finally get around to his 70s work (if you ever do, even plenty of die-hard fans skip it).

In '67 (in some ways starting with Weekend) he went full steam ahead into politics, and throughout the 70s he made satirical Marxist essay films, several of which where with Groupe Dziga Vertov. In the 80s he slowed down on the politics, but continued his experimentation with form and story.

If you look at his entire filmography as a narrative (which you can do, and it is quite interesting) it is a continual quest to discover just what a film can be. Watching him play with cinematic language, angles, dialogue, etc. is the most thrilling part of his works, though there is also always the comedy/satire/sarcasm. The only thing I do not appreciate is his eagerness to troll his fans, though if you watch retrospectively you know how, and there are easy workarounds.

(Forever Mozart is not one of my favourites, but like Helas pour moi I haven't seen it in a ludicrously long time, and it deserves a rewatch).

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#2116

Post by kongs_speech » April 7th, 2020, 11:00 pm

St. Gloede wrote:
April 7th, 2020, 9:55 pm
Essentially every JLG film post Weekend is experimental in one way or another, though some more than others. I wonder what you will think when you finally get around to his 70s work (if you ever do, even plenty of die-hard fans skip it).

In '67 (in some ways starting with Weekend) he went full steam ahead into politics, and throughout the 70s he made satirical Marxist essay films, several of which where with Groupe Dziga Vertov. In the 80s he slowed down on the politics, but continued his experimentation with form and story.

If you look at his entire filmography as a narrative (which you can do, and it is quite interesting) it is a continual quest to discover just what a film can be. Watching him play with cinematic language, angles, dialogue, etc. is the most thrilling part of his works, though there is also always the comedy/satire/sarcasm. The only thing I do not appreciate is his eagerness to troll his fans, though if you watch retrospectively you know how, and there are easy workarounds.

(Forever Mozart is not one of my favourites, but like Helas pour moi I haven't seen it in a ludicrously long time, and it deserves a rewatch).
I intend to see all of Godard's features. I have seen 14 so far, many of which I gave a 4.5/5, or a 5/5 in the case of Pierrot le fou. I have the Arrow box set of his Vertov work, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. Thanks for the insight. I'll keep that in mind. :cheers:
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#2117

Post by Onderhond » April 8th, 2020, 8:48 pm

Finally watched Clueless. It was my third attempt (first watched Legally Blond, then Mean Girls, turns out that Clueless was that "high school girly film on quite a lot of official lists"). No surprise it was the worst of the three, at the end of the film the only one clueless was me, as to why it is praised so much. TSPDT (extended)? Really? :D

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#2118

Post by blocho » April 8th, 2020, 10:14 pm

I thought it was a brilliant satire of American consumerism, gender roles, and class dynamics.

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#2119

Post by weirdboy » April 8th, 2020, 11:30 pm

blocho wrote:
April 8th, 2020, 10:14 pm
I thought it was a brilliant satire of American consumerism, gender roles, and class dynamics.
As if!

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#2120

Post by blocho » April 9th, 2020, 12:12 am

weirdboy wrote:
April 8th, 2020, 11:30 pm
blocho wrote:
April 8th, 2020, 10:14 pm
I thought it was a brilliant satire of American consumerism, gender roles, and class dynamics.
As if!
:thumbsup:

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