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Coryn
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#2281

Post by Coryn »

Just seen Shoah (1985)

I've been to Auschwitz and Birkenau myself a few years ago and I have a great interest in the subject. Especially the reasoning and the working behind the extermination camps. Shoah left me speechless for multiple hours. Every survivor had a certain cracking point, no matter how strong they looked and the guilty kept denying their influence on the hororities they comitted. That's what baffles me still to this day, how much were the Germans influenced by the propaganda and how much was just being evil.

I think we can conclude that someone like Reinhard Heydrich and Heinrich Himmler is simply evil to the core and filled with hatred, although the system around these persons encouraged hatred.

It's still a mystery to me how they found so many people willing to become executioners.
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#2282

Post by maxwelldeux »

Coryn wrote: December 16th, 2020, 9:01 am It's still a mystery to me how they found so many people willing to become executioners.
It's easy - just tell people to do it. Sadly. :circle:

The Milgram Experiments
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#2283

Post by Coryn »

maxwelldeux wrote: December 16th, 2020, 11:15 pm
Coryn wrote: December 16th, 2020, 9:01 am It's still a mystery to me how they found so many people willing to become executioners.
It's easy - just tell people to do it. Sadly. :circle:

The Milgram Experiments
I'm aware of the Milgram experiment but it's still really shocking how that's possible. That would for example mean that we would probably be acting in the same way as they did if we were in their position. I'm really curious how much is related to peer pressure, psychological influence (e.g. milgram) , education/upbringing and how much is simply being evil and hatred for the people next to them.
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#2284

Post by blocho »

Coryn wrote: December 17th, 2020, 9:00 am
maxwelldeux wrote: December 16th, 2020, 11:15 pm
Coryn wrote: December 16th, 2020, 9:01 am It's still a mystery to me how they found so many people willing to become executioners.
It's easy - just tell people to do it. Sadly. :circle:

The Milgram Experiments
I'm aware of the Milgram experiment but it's still really shocking how that's possible. That would for example mean that we would probably be acting in the same way as they did if we were in their position. I'm really curious how much is related to peer pressure, psychological influence (e.g. milgram) , education/upbringing and how much is simply being evil and hatred for the people next to them.
It's interesting to me, Coryn, that you used the words "willing" and "executioners" in such close proximity. I think you're referring to the (in)famous book by Daniel Goldhagen, but in case you aren't, you should know that Goldhagen's book, Hitler's Willing Executioners, posited that Nazi-era Germans were uniquely well-suited by history and culture to become genocidaires. This argument stands in opposition to those who use the Milgram experiments to claim that obedience, even obedience to the point of criminal brutality, is a universal condition. I should also note that that's not an argument that Milgram himself made. The original experiment was repeated by Milgram and others in many different settings and conditions, and they found that obedience rates changed as environmental factors changed. All of this is wrapped up in ongoing historiographical debates regarding the Holocaust (Sonderweg, intentionalist vs. functionalist) that I don't know much about and so won't comment on.
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#2285

Post by Coryn »

The fact so many Germans were against the whole boycotting of Jews in the 30s and the fact that there are only a handful of evil people needed to keep a concentration camp running go against the Milgram experiment indeed. I'm going on a reading spree on the subject right now.
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#2286

Post by wasabi »

I saw Bringing Up Baby, and I really disliked it. I felt so irritating while I was watching it. Susan (Hepburn's character) had no respect for other people. She claimed to love David but destroyed dinosaur skeletons David spent a lot of time on. I don't see that as "romantic" and I don't know why this film is on so many official lists.
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#2287

Post by Good_Will_Harding »

Musical palooza! :party:

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Hamilton (2020 - Walt Disney Studios)

At this rate, I have literally nothing to add to the discussion here - not just in regards to the musical itself, but also the filmed version released on Disney+ over the summer. Needless to say, it all lives up to the hype. Good music, good performances, and extremely impressive set design and scene transitions, at least in the filmed performance released to the public. No need for a subpar film adaptation a few years down the road, as this seems like as definitive an onscreen experience of the show as we're likely to get.

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The Prom (2020 - Ryan Murphy)

A rare modern film that dares to ask the big questions - like what if there was a current release film adaptation of a musical, where all the principle actors... could actually sing? :think: What a concept!

Anyhow, I'm not terribly familiar with director Ryan Murphy's previous foray into the musical genre - the TV series Glee, which was huge back when I was in high school, but is also something I managed to never even see a full episode of - and I'd never even heard of the Broadway musical this was based on, until I heard this film was coming out. So needless to say, I went into this completely blind and wound up thoroughly enjoying it. Nothing especially revelatory or altogether brand new going on here, but I found myself really getting swept up in the whole upbeat tone and sheer positivity of the piece. And maybe this is due to the significant decrease in newer films seen this year, but this is also one of the more visually intriguing films of 2020; not necessarily in regards to the cinematography itself, but rather the usage of color and a handful of recurring visual motifs (possibly inherited from the blocking of the stage version, though I wouldn't know). Just a real pleasant surprise all around, and given this current hellscape of a year, I'll take whatever positivity I can latch onto right now!
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#2288

Post by Coryn »

Local Hero (1983)

This recipe had every ingredient I like in a movie: Quirky but lovable characters, amazing soundtrack, Scotland, Indie feeling (even though it isn't). Just a movie to make you feel good and therefore this might become a movie I'd rewatch for many times to come.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pR1cVg ... Restisbest
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#2289

Post by kongs_speech »

The Yearling (a Best Picture nominee!) is such a huge piece of shit it could feed the cast of Salo for the entire 120 days. It's among the worst things I've ever sat through, and certainly one of the worst prestige pictures. I'm still dizzy from the movie spending over two hours shaking me upside down and demanding that I cry.
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#2290

Post by Cinepolis »

Just finished watching "Börn Nátúrrunnar" aka "Children of Nature" and absolutely loved it. Got me emotionally invested. Kinda bleak but uplifting at the same time. Plus, the cinematography is fantastic. Really wanna see this one on 500<400 one day.
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#2291

Post by outdoorcats »

Sap that I am, damn if I didn't tear up a little towards the end of Wonder Woman 1984. A fine blockbuster.

At this point, if they ever attempt another Justice League movie, perhaps they should consider Patty Jenkins, the director that pretty much everyone likes? :shrug:

A lie ain't a 'side of the story.' It's just a lie.
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#2292

Post by OldAle1 »

outdoorcats wrote: December 26th, 2020, 4:23 am Sap that I am, damn if I didn't tear up a little towards the end of Wonder Woman 1984. A fine blockbuster.

At this point, if they ever attempt another Justice League movie, perhaps they should consider Patty Jenkins, the director that pretty much everyone likes? :shrug:
Did you get to see it in the cinema? They were open in this area for a while, but they've been closed again for the past couple of weeks at least. I never saw anything during the brief open period - Tenet was the only thing that looked even vaguely like a possibility - and it looks like I won't get to see WW on the big screen either. I'm sure not going to drive 1 1/2 hours to Milwaukee or Chicago for it (if they even have any places open). Shame - I didn't love the first film or anything, but Gal Gadot might be the best fit in a superhero role in the current wave; Chris Hemsworth as Thor is really her only competition. I like the fact that both are non-American with accents also, works to their advantage playing mythical/god characters - outsiders.
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#2293

Post by outdoorcats »

I currently probably have COVID, so I watched it on HBO Max. I probably would have watched it at home anyway, though, like you say, it would have been a great film to see in theaters. Parts of the beginning of the film had such a nicely old-fashioned vibe (particularly the score), like it was the follow up to the 1978 Superman we never got outside of the small screen. The movies aren't amazing or anything, but both of them are just really enjoyable. Agree that Godot is maybe the best possible fit for WW. Not sure at this point what current actress would be better.

The only movie I saw in theaters this year was Tenet. I saw it right after the election, the day after the mall the theater was in was evacuated due to a right-wing bomb threat (they were counting votes next door at the Phila Convention Center). I correctly guessed the theater would be near-empty the day after a bomb threat. :shrug:

A lie ain't a 'side of the story.' It's just a lie.
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#2294

Post by OldAle1 »

Yeesh, hope you get through it all right! I don't know anyone young who's had it, though I've lost track of a lot of people the last few years so who knows? An uncle (78) and his wife (73 I think) had it - he was in pretty bad shape and had pneumonia also, but I think they've both mostly recovered. Anyway get well soon!
Parts of the beginning of the film had such a nicely old-fashioned vibe (particularly the score), like it was the follow up to the 1978 Superman we never got outside of the small screen
Not surprisingly that REALLY makes me want to see it! Guess I'll have to wait or subscribe to HBO Max. Grrr...I've managed this long without adding another streaming service but I may break down.
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#2295

Post by Onderhond »

Pixar Soul could've been a good film if they'd dropped all the childish nonsense and hired a less nervous editor. I don't get why they're so damned afraid to make a dedicated film for a more mature audience.
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#2296

Post by OldAle1 »

Onderhond wrote: December 27th, 2020, 4:16 pm Pixar Soul could've been a good film if they'd dropped all the childish nonsense and hired a less nervous editor. I don't get why they're so damned afraid to make a dedicated film for a more mature audience.
They simply don't believe that there's any significant market for adult-oriented, or even teen-oriented animation, at least not a market large enough to make a profit on films costing $100 million+. I tend to think they're probably right, but if nobody tries we'll never know for sure.

I don't know any easy way to search this accurately, but doing a couple of advanced searches on IMDb shows only one PG13 animated film that got a significant US release in the last decade - Isle of Dogs. It grossed $64 million worldwide, half of that in the USA - that would have been a huge flop by PIXAR standards. Dunno what the budget was, my guess is enough that it wasn't a big hit. If we look at R-rated films, there's nothing from the past decade that's grossed $5 million in the USA, and only two from the previous decade that made *slightly* more than that figure.

Of course some of it's self-fulfilling; if no studio will make a film for a more adult audience on a big budget, with maybe some star names for the voices, and based on a really popular property, and very heavily and intelligently marketed, there's really no chance of a hit on the level Disney would want. I could imagine an R-rated Deadpool or Batman animated film that could make an impact, but I don't see it in the cards. And how "adult" would such a thing be apart from having more violence and some swearing?

Despite the fact that comic books are no longer read much by kids anymore in this country, and the prevalence of all kinds of animation on TV since The Simpsons began over 30 years ago, theatrical animation is resolutely still the province of kiddie fare and probably always will be given the dollars involved.
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#2297

Post by Onderhond »

OldAle1 wrote: December 27th, 2020, 5:33 pm They simply don't believe that there's any significant market for adult-oriented, or even teen-oriented animation, at least not a market large enough to make a profit on films costing $100 million+.
I seriously doubt many pre-teen kids are going to love Soul though. It's a weird mess of adult/children themes, almost to the point of being schizophrenic.
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#2298

Post by Coryn »

The Cook, the Thief, His Wife & Her Lover (1989) 8/10

I really didn't think I'd love this movie as much as I did. It's extremely original and so well acted especially by Gambon.
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#2299

Post by kongs_speech »

OldAle1 wrote: December 27th, 2020, 5:33 pm
Onderhond wrote: December 27th, 2020, 4:16 pm Pixar Soul could've been a good film if they'd dropped all the childish nonsense and hired a less nervous editor. I don't get why they're so damned afraid to make a dedicated film for a more mature audience.
They simply don't believe that there's any significant market for adult-oriented, or even teen-oriented animation, at least not a market large enough to make a profit on films costing $100 million+. I tend to think they're probably right, but if nobody tries we'll never know for sure.

I don't know any easy way to search this accurately, but doing a couple of advanced searches on IMDb shows only one PG13 animated film that got a significant US release in the last decade - Isle of Dogs. It grossed $64 million worldwide, half of that in the USA - that would have been a huge flop by PIXAR standards. Dunno what the budget was, my guess is enough that it wasn't a big hit. If we look at R-rated films, there's nothing from the past decade that's grossed $5 million in the USA, and only two from the previous decade that made *slightly* more than that figure.

Of course some of it's self-fulfilling; if no studio will make a film for a more adult audience on a big budget, with maybe some star names for the voices, and based on a really popular property, and very heavily and intelligently marketed, there's really no chance of a hit on the level Disney would want. I could imagine an R-rated Deadpool or Batman animated film that could make an impact, but I don't see it in the cards. And how "adult" would such a thing be apart from having more violence and some swearing?

Despite the fact that comic books are no longer read much by kids anymore in this country, and the prevalence of all kinds of animation on TV since The Simpsons began over 30 years ago, theatrical animation is resolutely still the province of kiddie fare and probably always will be given the dollars involved.
Sausage Party was a box office and critical success in 2016, and then absolutely nothing happened after that. Nobody was inspired to take a chance on more adult animation.
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#2300

Post by OldAle1 »

You're right, don't know how I missed that one. But yeah, that appears to be the only R-rated animated film since the South Park movie - 21 years ago - to make any impact on the domestic box office whatsoever. And, it had a $19 million budget, and South Park was $21 million, and both made several multiples of their budgets. I guess that's not enough these days though - you have to make 3x the budget but it has to be a $150 million budget to begin with, and that's a mountain even live-action R-rated films have a very hard time getting over. The death of the middle-budget film has not been exaggerated.

Well I guess that's what streaming is for, sigh.
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#2301

Post by Onderhond »

Not the kind of "adult/mature" I was going for though.
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#2302

Post by OldAle1 »

Onderhond wrote: December 27th, 2020, 8:52 pm Not the kind of "adult/mature" I was going for though.
Well, any kind of adult/mature is largely off-limits for Hollywood when it comes to theatrical releases, let's face it.
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#2303

Post by kongs_speech »

We've got a likely PG-13 coming this spring, though I suspect it may get dumped on Hulu. The Bob's Burgers Movie. Under normal circumstances, it would have been a theatrical hit.
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#2304

Post by kongs_speech »

You ever have zero expectations for a film and it turns out to be amazing? I didn't think Best Laid Plans (1999, Mike Barker) would even rise to the level of a passable time waster. Instead, that was a fantastic neo-noir providing further evidence that Reese Witherspoon is one of the best actresses around. It's full of twist after twist, but the twists make sense. What an excellent surprise.

It's not an official check. I only watched it because I adore Reese. So, so worth it. Leaves HBO Max at the end of the month.
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#2305

Post by RolandKirkSunglasses »

La Roue (1923) For all the ethereal photography and rapid cuts, I couldn't get past the hokey storyline with all its coincidences. For a 4 hour movie some scenes dragged on far too long without adding to the story, I highly doubt I'll watch the 7 hour version.
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#2306

Post by Coryn »

RolandKirkSunglasses wrote: January 15th, 2021, 1:12 pm La Roue (1923) For all the ethereal photography and rapid cuts, I couldn't get past the hokey storyline with all its coincidences. For a 4 hour movie some scenes dragged on far too long without adding to the story, I highly doubt I'll watch the 7 hour version.
Welcome either way, love your avatar :D
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#2307

Post by RolandKirkSunglasses »

Coryn wrote: January 15th, 2021, 1:42 pm Welcome either way, love your avatar :D
Thanks, all this time looking for a film forum when ICM's been right under my nose.

It was a choice between Ilya Repin painting and Michel Simon's face, think I made the right choice. :lol:
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#2308

Post by blocho »

RolandKirkSunglasses wrote: January 15th, 2021, 2:04 pm
Coryn wrote: January 15th, 2021, 1:42 pm Welcome either way, love your avatar :D
Thanks, all this time looking for a film forum when ICM's been right under my nose.

It was a choice between Ilya Repin painting and Michel Simon's face, think I made the right choice. :lol:
I'm definitely a Repin fan. Welcome to the forum!
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#2309

Post by kongs_speech »

RolandKirkSunglasses wrote: January 15th, 2021, 1:12 pm La Roue (1923) For all the ethereal photography and rapid cuts, I couldn't get past the hokey storyline with all its coincidences. For a 4 hour movie some scenes dragged on far too long without adding to the story, I highly doubt I'll watch the 7 hour version.
That's too bad, I think it's an incredible film. Either way, welcome!
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#2310

Post by Coryn »

Currently watching Pinocchio (1911) with headphones and the audio is terrifying.

https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/pinocchio-1911/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0194248/
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#2311

Post by Coryn »

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They hung Pinocchio :satstunned: :satstunned: :satstunned:
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#2312

Post by kongs_speech »

Oh my God, they killed Pinocchio! You bastards!
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#2313

Post by RolandKirkSunglasses »

Twentieth Century (1934) Oscar Jaffe (John Barrymore) is a megalomaniac impresario driving former lingerie model Lily Garland (Carole Lombard) to Broadway stardom and insanity, the moment she leaves his control-freak histrionics for Hollywood his theatre nosedives. On the train from Chicago back to New York, drowning in debt and delusions of grandeur, Barrymore finds out she's on the same train and hatches a plan.

Barrymore is so hammy it's delicious and Lombard switches from tears to outrage in 0.8 seconds, they work pretty well together. Jaffe's two long-suffering lieutenants Oliver Webb (Walter Connolly) and Owen O'Malley (Roscoe Karns) provide good support when they're not exasperated by Oscar's antics, while Matthew J. Clark (Etienne Girardot) posts religious stickers all around the train and causes a couple more problems. The snappy dialogue and literary references help the film flaunt its stage origins, instead of being weighed down and constrained by it. All in all I think it's one of the better screwball comedies, a couple secondary characters get discarded a little too easily and the second half of the film can feel long on the train. I liked it, I think Howard Hawks would improve the rapid-fire dialogue and on-screen chemistry in "His Girl Friday".
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#2314

Post by prodigalgodson »

Love that one, underrated like a number of early Hawkses.
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#2315

Post by Dolwphin »

The Happy Life (1944) which concerns the importance of stoicism and being resourceful ("seeing things around you") during tough times. A quite delightful comedy with some endearing moments. It does have obvious limitations due to being a propaganda-film. At the same time, the portrait of the village life was beautifully done. And there is one brilliant musical sequence that lifts the film to a solid (non-favorite) grade. [A puddle being bombarded by raindrops, this resembles dancing; followed by a musical sequence of dancing children through super-impositions. This makes a sick child feel better.]

Not the most famous Naruse, but already looking forward to seeing his other 1944 effort.
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#2316

Post by Good_Will_Harding »

Two current releases by female directors, both at opposite ends of the spectrum, in terms of quality, content, and production size:

Wonder Woman 1984

In a theater! Anyhow, there are a handful of ways I think this actually improves on the first film - it’s visually brighter and less hideous looking (apart from the climax - and the CGI is still pretty poor overall), the villains are more interesting and memorable (albeit not especially well written), and the musical score by Hans Zimmer is quite good and probably the best work he’s done in at least a decade.

But all those individual elements are barely able to prop up a storyline as convoluted, bloated, and nonsensical as this. It’s honestly incredible that this script was passed down by god knows how many people and got approved all the way through. Even by modern superhero standards, a lot of what happens here is either stunningly moronic or jaw droppingly misjudged - least of all the unaddressed way Chris Pine is written back into the proceedings.

All in all, while I don’t love the first one and think it’s overhyped in many ways, it’s still the better film by a decent margin. This one had a lot of elements in place where it could’ve surpassed it, but that screenplay though... let's just say, it definitely needed a lot of work. Maybe we could use another year without these things after all.

Promising Young Woman

Also on the big screen. Still chewing on this, but I definitely liked it overall, despite a handful of reservations. Whatever my gripes, Carey Mulligan is absolutely perfect in the lead role and she really navigates a lot of the films occasionally whiplash-inducing tonal shifts.

One of the most readily apparent things about this is how it tries to be a lot of things all at once, and while it doesn’t really do any of those things badly, it takes a while to strike a comfortable balance between the millennial meet-cute with a slight edge and the polished, toothless I Spit In Your Grave riffs. Certain sections are played with an eye towards a really cutesy sort of tone, which is fine on its own, but they work in stark contrast with the attempts to be more ambiguous and sinister - I certainly admire the attempt and ambition, especially for a first time director, but the two sides of which don't really find a good balance with one another.

However, this does take a fairly significant turn towards the conclusion and no spoilers, but that whole segment really did leave a strong impact and helped to reshape a lot of what came before, however without exactly fixing the problems I had. I definitely would like to see this again soon, but my first impression is that it’s an ambitious and entertaining, if not entirely successful vehicle for an otherwise outstanding lead turn from Mulligan.
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#2317

Post by blocho »

It's Kind of a Funny Story (2010)
I saw Anna Boden and Ryan Fleck's excellent baseball/immigrant movie Sugar 11 years ago, and it felt like a revelation. A sports movie with no cliches. No quirky sidekicks, no big game at the end. It felt like an utterly genuine exploration of a particular subculture at the nexus of immigration and sports. Since then, I've seen three more Boden/Fleck movies: Half Nelson, Mississippi Grind, and now It's Kind of a Funny Story. I enjoyed Mississippi Grind, which is an unacknowledged remake of California Split, but I have major problems with Half Nelson and this latest movie. And in both cases it's because they're about topics I know something about. Half Nelson is perhaps more of a movie about addiction than a movie about teaching, but I can say from personal experience that it gets the teaching part really wrong. As for It's Kind of a Funny Story, it's an enjoyable, feel-good movie that makes depression seem like a minor problem and psych wards look like a fun place to hang out for a week. It's so utterly misguided, so completely unwilling to explore upsetting realities that it makes me wonder whether Sugar and Mississippi Grind were similarly fake, and I just don't realize it.
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kongs_speech
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#2318

Post by kongs_speech »

I don't know if I've ever felt as much of a connection to a movie as I did with Promising Young Woman. I knew as soon as it premiered at Sundance last January that I was going to love it and probably give it a 5/5. The prospect of eventually seeing it was a big motivator to keep me going throughout 2020. But even with all that in mind, I wasn't prepared. I was immediately hooked and fixated on the screen for two hours. At the very least, Cassie is the coolest character I've seen in anything. She is 100 times more of a superhero than anyone you'll see in a Marvel or DC film.
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I'm glad that I knew about Cassie's death going into the film or I would have had an intense panic attack. Even though I did know about it, the actual scene was a lot more horrible than I imagined, with her muffled screams from under the pillow and watching her desperately try to fight him off. The ending is unbelievably cathartic and exhilarating. Seeing the friendship necklace made me cry, though.
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RolandKirkSunglasses
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#2319

Post by RolandKirkSunglasses »

Godzilla (1954): Working on a personal challenge to explore more Japanese movies from the 50s and 60s, needed to refresh myself on original Godzilla.

For all its obvious flaws it's well paced, creates enough tension and mystery at the start, portrays the human suffering and cost of Godzilla's rampage and captures the anxiety over nuclear annihilation. The romantic subplot doesn't work since the characters aren't that interesting and the actors have little to work with. Some close-ups of Godzilla are more funny than intimidating and some of the miniatures and models haven't held up over time, all that being said I think suitmation was the right choice; stopmotion would've resembled a Beast from 20,000 Fathoms ripoff not to mention the time and cost. It's an OK film, serves its purpose but one question remains:

What kind of palaeontologist thinks the Jurassic Period was 2 million years ago?
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Coryn
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#2320

Post by Coryn »

Céline et Julie vont en bateau: Phantom Ladies Over Paris (1974)

I don't get it, I simply don't get it. French New Wave started out for me with some movies I simply didn't understand, I tried reading up about the genre and movement itself and quickly learned about what the directors were trying to do. I tried out two new ways of watching the movies, firstly reading up on what the movie is going to throw at me stylistically and the meanings behind certain scenes before I watch the movie and secondally doing all that after I watch it. None of both worked out.

I only scratched the surface of French New Wave but it might just be the movement I enjoy the least, or maybe even worse, don't enjoy at all.
I saved Latin, what did you ever do ?
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