tobias wrote: ↑April 8th, 2021, 1:40 am
cinewest wrote: ↑April 7th, 2021, 12:17 pm
tobias wrote: ↑April 7th, 2021, 11:12 am
With me it's also mostly a lack of interest, not a bias against spanish cinema in general.
I have actually gotten more into Latin American Cinema recently and I've definitely voted for more Latin American than Spanish films. It's still not much but much more than just Viridiana for Spain. I've voted for: The Exterminating Angel (Mexico), Limite (Brazil), Nazarin (Mexico), Simon of the Desert (Mexico), Los Olvidados (Mexico), The Holy Mountain (Mexico), Santa Sangre (Mexico), Memories of Underdevelopment (Cuba) and Iracema (Brazil). I know there's a lot of Bunuel on there but to be fair Spain would not have made it all without Bunuel. I would also add that La Flor (Argentina) was really close. I half regret not voting for it. I've also seen a Latin American film just yesterday with Raul Ruiz' Palomita Blanca which I liked quite a lot. I could also see one of Ruiz' Chilean films sneaking on my list once I see more of them. I'm quite sure II've seen much more Latin American cinema than Spanish cinema. I don't know if that is so unusual. Mexico alone is probably a bigger cinema country than Spain. Brazil and Argentina also have significant industries. During Franco's reign you also had many Spaniards work in Latin America and France instead (because Fascism sucks, also for art). Bunuel and Almendros both got their careers started for real in Latin America (Mexico and Cuba). They're the two Spanish filmmakers I admire the most. In general there's not many Spanish films I'm excited about watching. The only one that comes too mind is El Sur. For Latin America it feels like there is an entire host of them and so many more I've not even heard about.
When it comes to Fellini it's definitely not a bias of mine against Italian cinema. I love myself some Italian cinema, it's just that among the list of Italian directors I like Fellini doesn't rank very highly, Passolini, Rosselini, Antonioni, Bava and Visconti all rank among my favourite directors. But don't worry, I still gave Fellini better marks than any of the Andersons. And these days I kinda feel like watching his Roma film. At least I can agree with him that it's an amazing city so what could go wrong?
Note: Kudos to Tim for conducting the poll
Edit: Mainstreet and those on TSPDT I'm a bit excited about also some of Almodovar's Back-catalouge maybe.
Lack of interest in something often contains an inherent bias, conscious or unconscious, for one reason or another.
You do realize that half the 10 movies from Latin America that you voted for were made by Bunuel, and that they are all pretty old (I specifically mentioned a possible bias against contemporary Latin American cinema, ie. Made in the past 20 years or so).
No matter. Just something I posited based on my observation of what gets attention around here, and what doesn’t.
Oh yeah, certainly, the world is full of biases. I would however say that I'm probably inherently more biased against East-Asian films than Spanish films which on the surface should be culturally similar to Italy, France and Portugal, all 3 cinemas that deeply fascinate me (France closely rivals the USA on my list). On top of that I'm very intruiged by Spanish history (which for example Bunuel toys around with in delightful fashion). So at least some of that must be the output. But then again Spain is a conservative country that was fascist for a very long time and the transition was arguably luke warm compared to Italy which was stormed by Partisans (and almost all my favourite directors from Italy were members of the Communist party - which is maybe also part of the reason I like Fellini less - and why many critics refuse to label him neorealist). I've hardly heard of a single noteworthy film from e.g. Italy's fascist period outside of the obvious beginning of neo-realism in the 40's (Ossessione, Rome Open City, etc.). There probably are one or two, don't get me wrong and I enjoyed Machiste in Hell for example but I've never seen anyone speak about it in a major way. Spain does actually have noteworthy films made in its fascist period. I'm probably just overlooking a lot of great spanish films, I don't deny that but if you'd chart me right now a lot of European countries would come before Spain

.
As for Latin America, yeah, there's a lot of Bunuel, I love Bunuel. My argument was that if we cut Bunuel Spain has nothing on my list. My list has an anti-contemporary bias in general and there are actually quite a few recent Latin-American films I highly enjoyed. As I already said La Flor probably should have made my list (and it's as long as 7 normal films). My list has 333 entries which is a small fraction of all the films I've seen and I'd maintain that on average I'm very lucky with my film picks. So me not including e.g. Zama or Stellet Licht doesn't mean I don't think they're great films. But of course I'm by no means an authority on Latin American cinema, I'm just genuinly intruiged by what I've seen and I do have a Latin American director in my top 5 (yes, Ruiz worked mostly in Europe but most if not all of his themes go back to his time in Chile - and I also enjoy his Chilean films). As a European I can say that these films are often closer to me than e.g. films from the US which often feel like fairy-tales. Iracema for example is actually a German co-production co-directed by a Brazilian cameraman who studied in Germany (and I assume has some kind of German descent perhaps) and many of the Latin American films I've seen seem to have a better understanding of their colonial history, of a fleeting, ever changing world vis a vis the USA which just treats the country like a cultural wasteland. The films that e.g. Ruiz and Llinas make are films about wanderers, passing developments that are deeply uncertain, they have a lot of gravity that is hard to attain for even some very strong US-American films. I actually once met a Bolivian guy at an entrance examination and we had to switch between German and English because I couldn't figure out what he spoke better. This would never happen with people from the USA. What I've seen is of course limited and pales compared to others on the forum but I'm certainly becomming more and more engaged in it, especially as availability increases.
Tobias,
Enjoying the dialogue. Hope you don't think my comments were directed towards you, personally. I agree with what you have said about Spanish cinema from the classic period, and the fascist cloak that probably squelched their development (the same was true with Latin America) as filmmakers in the past. But like many countries stepping out of the shadows politically and economically, these places are producing artists of all kinds who have interesting things to say and ways of expressing those things that are unique to their history, and they are full of creativity perhaps precisely because they are now free from suppression.
For the longest time, almost every Spanish film I saw was somehow connected to the shadow of Franco, and the same has been true of many Latin American films, and the fact that their historical context is so much different from that of North Americans and Northern / Western Europeans probably contributes to the disconnect I have spoken about, apart from their continued marginalization in the film market, apart from a handful of filmmakers that have been adopted by arthouse circles.
For my own part, I have been very impressed by what has been coming out of Latin America (a huge continent) in the past 15 years in particular, and have done my best to pump some of my favorites in recent years. Certainly there are a few that should have been considered for this poll, especially as more than 200 films from the past 20 years made the top 1000.
As for Fellini- Not sure I fully understand his diminished stature on this board (he actually improved his high standing slightly in the latest TSP poll), but it's clear that folks here don't seem to connect to him very well, despite his influence on and affinity with various filmmakers like Ruiz who are popular here. I have posited various reasons in the past that I don't want to rehash. Suffice to say, I still consider him among the best filmmakers ever, and the King of Italian film, though being half Italian, I like quite a few others, as well.