2021 Challenges: Setting Up the Schedule

[St. Gloede]

On scheduling, I would avoid having these too close from each other:
[...]
- Travel the world and Waves around the world
[...]

Maybe it was already defined in the nomination thread but so far I focussed on the Wave part more that the 'around the world' part. Is it about a certain way of filmmaking (including New Wave-y movies from countries that were not part of a larger scene) or about a fixed set of New Waves?

Fixed set of recognized new waves.

The latter is broader and harder to quantify in advance, essentially it would be an "arthouse" challenge. Would be excited to see that proposed for 2022 though.

[Lonewolf2003]

Firstly I'm very happy how the private voting worked, cause I have a feeling only regulars, the people really interested in participating in challenges, voted. I like that, cause it's disappointment if a challenges makes the schedule with lots of votes but in the end has only a few participants.

I have a feeling there were less voters than normal, is that correct sol?

[mightysparks]

Ye I really wanted to vote because I love voting for anything but I stayed away since I don't really participate in challenges. Some of these look fun though, and I would like to give Run the Director a go next year.

[Lonewolf2003]

I'll hide this under a spoiler tag since it's just me playing around for the moment:

Spoiler

2021 Challenge Schedule: A Work in Progress

Month	Country Challenge	Theme Challenge	Theme Challenge
January	-	Sci-Fi/Fantasy	Waves from Around World
February	-	Experimental/Avant-Garde	Run the Director
March	-	Directed by Women	1000<400
April	-	Doubling the Canon Nominees	Animation
May	-	Western	Mystery & Thriller
June	-	One Film From Each Year	LGBTIQ+
July	-	Travel the World	Run the Actor
August	-	<400 Checks	Action & Adventure
September	-	Silent Era	Low IMDb Rating
October	-	Horror	One Film From Each iCM List
November	-	Film Noir	War movies
December	-	Documentary	Unofficial

I think this works great. There are a few challenges I'm most interested in coupled (Western + Mystery & Thriller, Film Noir + War), but that's a personal misfortune. Cause I wouldn't know where to place them otherwise.

[blueboybob]

Do any countries have independence day (or a significant holiday) we can put in respective month?

[blueboybob]

I like unofficial in december because it lets me "clear out" my backlog from the year.

[Lonewolf2003]

Iran/Central Asia would work well in December, lots of documentary work in that region; the rest of the Middle East I'd say much earlier in the year - I think it's good to have close regions separated a bit, just as it is with close genres. But to be fair as I think about it, every country has lots of documentaries so I'm not sure how much the December country slot really matters.

Yeah, I think every region has tons of docs, but let's place Central Asia in there for now as (possibly?) the smallest 2021 region in terms of available subbed output.

Let's also plug in Italy and Korea where suggested, as well as some of my suggestions from above:

• 1000<400 in March to keep it early in the year without doubling it up with Sci-fi/Fantasy again
• Low IMDb Rating with Silents - limited doubles (but some)
• One Film From Each iCM List with Horror - expand our horror horizons

Thoughts everyone?

2021 Challenge Schedule: A Work in Progress

Month	Country Challenge	Theme Challenge	Theme Challenge
January	-	Sci-Fi/Fantasy	-
February	-	Experimental/Avant-Garde	Run the Director
March	UK/Ireland	Directed by Women	1000<400
April	-	Doubling the Canon Nominees	-
May	-	Western	-
June	Italy	One Film From Each Year	LGBTIQ+
July	France	Travel the World	Run the Actor
August	Korean Peninsula	<400 Checks	-
September	-	Silent Era	Low IMDb Rating
October	-	Horror	One Film From Each iCM List
November	-	Film Noir	War movies
December	Iran & Central Asia	Documentary	-

Countries/regions that still need to be placed	Themes that still need to be placed
Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay Benelux Eastern Europe - excluding Russia and Balkans Japan Latin America - excluding Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Mexico & Caribbean Middle East - excluding Iran Oceania	Mystery & Thriller Action & Adventure Waves from Around World Animation Unofficial

Most important next one to set to me is Japan, cause it's so a popular challenge. I would say in January with Sci-Fi/Fantasy (and Waves from Around World, assuming we go with sol suggested schedule). Or in June (with One Film From Each Year +LGBTIQ+). Italy is set there now, and while it sure is nice when a country challenges overlaps with a national holiday, making a schedule that work well is way more important than an overlap with a holiday few of us celebrate. Other option would be April with DTC nominees (plus animations), tho that would make doubles very easy and triples maybe too. September with Silent Era +Low IMDb Rating could also work, but we had the Japan-Silent combo already in 2019 and 2017.

[sol]

Okay, let's try this out. Definitely not going to put Japan with Animation, so tentatively we could try this as per Lonewolf's first suggestion. Will also keep Unofficial in December for now to keep our #1 player happy.

Nothing set in stone, but at the moment:

2021 Challenge Schedule: A Work in Progress

Month	Country Challenge	Theme Challenge	Theme Challenge
January	Japan	Sci-Fi/Fantasy	Waves from Around World
February	-	Experimental/Avant-Garde	Run the Director
March	UK/Ireland	Directed by Women	1000<400
April	-	Doubling the Canon Nominees	Animation
May	-	Western	Mystery & Thriller
June	Italy	One Film From Each Year	LGBTIQ+
July	France	Travel the World	Run the Actor
August	Korean Peninsula	<400 Checks	Action & Adventure
September	-	Silent Era	Low IMDb Rating
October	-	Horror	One Film From Each iCM List
November	-	Film Noir	War movies
December	Iran & Central Asia	Documentary	Unofficial

Countries/regions that still need to be placed	Themes that still need to be placed
Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay Benelux Eastern Europe - excluding Russia and Balkans Latin America - excluding Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Mexico & Caribbean Middle East - excluding Iran Oceania

[sol]

Firstly I'm very happy how the private voting worked, cause I have a feeling only regulars, the people really interested in participating in challenges, voted. I like that, cause it's disappointment if a challenges makes the schedule with lots of votes but in the end has only a few participants.

I have a feeling there were less voters than normal, is that correct sol?

Marginally less, yes. Not going back to double check at the moment, but I think we usually get around 40 voters per year.

[OldAle1]

Only a few countries have major silent representation, so it's pretty easy to either leave those out - if you want to keep doubles and triples to a minimum - or keep them in if you want to accentuate folks' chances for multiple crowns. There's essentially nothing from the silent era from Iran/Central Asia/the Middle East, not a huge amount from Latin America, virtually nothing from Oceania or Korea - probably a middling amount from Benelux and Eastern Europe - and loads from the other countries. So that's one pretty clear way to look at it.

[OldAle1]

I really like having Japan with SF/fantasy as it fits in with a personal challenge that I've been planning for years - this might be the impetus to start it in January. So yay for that.

[Lonewolf2003]

I really like having Japan with SF/fantasy as it fits in with a personal challenge that I've been planning for years - this might be the impetus to start it in January. So yay for that.

Something to do with a very large reptile and other beasts?

[OldAle1]

I really like having Japan with SF/fantasy as it fits in with a personal challenge that I've been planning for years - this might be the impetus to start it in January. So yay for that.

Something to do with a very large reptile and other beasts?

That's part of it.

[Onderhond]

Do any countries have independence day (or a significant holiday) we can put in respective month?

Japan has the majority of its Hanami festivals in April I think, but there's not really a set date for them (since they depend on the trees blooming).

The pairing with sci-fi/fantasy is nice, but many people will be focusing on Oscar/eoy lists around that time, so imo it would be a shame to put Japan so early in the year.

[sortile9io]

Before resorting to randomness I would pair Western with Eastern Europe, as a sort of pun. Not too brilliant, I must admit...

[Traveller]

The tentative schedule looks promising. Great work so far, sol. I'd personally put in Japan in February, but that's just my personal preference.

[Melvelet]

I'd still prefer for 1000<400 and DtC to not be directly after each other because of similarity of both type of movies and overlap of specific movies in the eligible pool.

[St. Gloede]

Maybe flip Japan with the UK (or another slot), if we don't want too many overlaps with sci-fi fantasy and the Japanese New Wave.

As for the latter, I'd quite fancy either Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay for November as they can bring in a bit of light as the year gets darker, and perhaps place Latin America in one of the coming winter months. Oceania could take another darker month.

[hurluberlu]

Do any countries have independence day (or a significant holiday) we can put in respective month?

Japan has the majority of its Hanami festivals in April I think, but there's not really a set date for them (since they depend on the trees blooming).

The pairing with sci-fi/fantasy is nice, but many people will be focusing on Oscar/eoy lists around that time, so imo it would be a shame to put Japan so early in the year.

Yearly eoy poll is probably not going to be as busy as usual but I agree January proposal looks too busy with Japan/Sci-Fi/Waves; I could easily focus on any of them.

[sol]

Okay, let's try to get a draft complete version. What I have done:

• Flipped New Waves and 1000<400 since there are some who object to them being in those months; what this does mean is that 1000<400 will be paired with Sci-Fi/Fantasy again, however, the January placement with make both 72aicm and beavis happy, who want it first thing in the year. It would also make Mel happy, who wants a distance between 1000<400 and DTC nominees. (If we don't want this combo, we could always place Sci-Fi/Fantasy in February, but that would break tradition)
• Placed Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay in November to make Gloede happy
• Placed the other Latin America Challenge in February to create a distance
• Placed Middle East in April to create a distance from Iran/Central Asia
• Both Oceania and Benelux have been run with Low IMDb Rating before, so placed Eastern Europe there instead
• Benelux was also run with Mystery and Thriller two years ago, so I've placed it in October instead
• Oceania therefore slots into May by default

Not perfect and nothing set in stone, but at the moment:

2021 Challenge Schedule: A Work in Progress

Month	Country Challenge	Theme Challenge	Theme Challenge
January	Japan	Sci-Fi/Fantasy	1000<400
February	Latin America - excl. Ar, Br, Uy & Mx	Experimental/Avant-Garde	Run the Director
March	UK/Ireland	Directed by Women	Waves from Around World
April	Middle East - excl. Iran	Doubling the Canon Nominees	Animation
May	Oceania	Western	Mystery & Thriller
June	Italy	One Film From Each Year	LGBTIQ+
July	France	Travel the World	Run the Actor
August	Korean Peninsula	<400 Checks	Action & Adventure
September	Eastern Europe - excl. Russia & Balkans	Silent Era	Low IMDb Rating
October	Benelux	Horror	One Film From Each iCM List
November	Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay	Film Noir	War movies
December	Iran & Central Asia	Documentary	Unofficial

[mightysparks]

Chris, you realise not everyone experiences winter at the same time

[RogerTheMovieManiac88]

I would put Action & Adventure with Silents and Low IMDb Rating with <400 Checks, as I think those two pairings would be more fun and make me (and hopefully others) more enthusiastic about taking part in all four challenges. But, yeah, I know you probably aren't going to like that suggestion...

I love the provisional placings for January, March, July and December. I don't think I'd change anything there, although January does look full with promise and possibility.

Benelux for February possibly; it might have some tie-in with the experimental scene in the Netherlands? I think I would support switching Latin America and Benelux. How do you feel about that? I like and second Gloede's suggestion of Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay in Novembre. Would be a nice one, indeed.

[sol]

I would put Action & Adventure with Silents and Low IMDb Rating with <400 Checks, as I think those two pairings would be more fun and make me (and hopefully others) more enthusiastic about taking part in all four challenges. But, yeah, I know you probably aren't going to like that suggestion...

Good prediction. Other than Film Noir, pairing Silents with Low IMDb Rating is really the best way to ensure that LIR doubles aren't easy to get.

I love the provisional placings for January, March, July and December. I don't think I'd change anything there

Benelux for February possibly; it might have some tie-in with the experimental scene in the Netherlands? I think I would support switching Latin America and Benelux. How do you feel about that? I like and second Gloede's suggestion of Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay in Novembre. Would be a nice one, indeed.

But... we have already had a Latin American/Horror month... as recently as... last year.

We could, however, place Benelux in February, throw Latin America into May and place Oceania in October - though that would provide less distance between the two Latin American Challenges...

[RogerTheMovieManiac88]

Ah, okay. I hadn't realised that Latin America and Horror had been paired together in recent times. Yeah, it makes sense to keep them apart then.

I like the idea of Benelux in February, but let's see whether anyone chimes in with support or opposition.

Just suggestions from me. I don't feel all that strongly about the positionings. Just trying to come up with a few pairings that make me want to dive with an extra relish into any given month, haha...

[Lonewolf2003]

Okay, let's try to get a draft complete version. What I have done:

• Flipped New Waves and 1000<400 since there are some who object to them being in those months; what this does mean is that 1000<400 will be paired with Sci-Fi/Fantasy again, however, the January placement with make both 72aicm and beavis happy, who want it first thing in the year. It would also make Mel happy, who wants a distance between 1000<400 and DTC nominees. (If we don't want this combo, we could always place Sci-Fi/Fantasy in February, but that would break tradition)
• Placed Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay in November to make Gloede happy
• Placed the other Latin America Challenge in February to create a distance
• Placed Middle East in April to create a distance from Iran/Central Asia
• Both Oceania and Benelux have been run with Low IMDb Rating before, so placed Eastern Europe there instead
• Benelux was also run with Mystery and Thriller two years ago, so I've placed it in October instead
• Oceania therefore slots into May by default

Not perfect and nothing set in stone, but at the moment:

2021 Challenge Schedule: A Work in Progress

Month	Country Challenge	Theme Challenge	Theme Challenge
January	Japan	Sci-Fi/Fantasy	1000<400
February	Latin America - excl. Ar, Br, Uy & Mx	Experimental/Avant-Garde	Run the Director
March	UK/Ireland	Directed by Women	Waves from Around World
April	Middle East - excl. Iran	Doubling the Canon Nominees	Animation
May	Oceania	Western	Mystery & Thriller
June	Italy	One Film From Each Year	LGBTIQ+
July	France	Travel the World	Run the Actor
August	Korean Peninsula	<400 Checks	Action & Adventure
September	Eastern Europe - excl. Russia & Balkans	Silent Era	Low IMDb Rating
October	Benelux	Horror	One Film From Each iCM List
November	Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay	Film Noir	War movies
December	Iran & Central Asia	Documentary	Unofficial

works great for me. I would say don’t do nothing more about it, seal it shut and put a ribbon around it. It’s never going to be perfect for everyone anyhow.

[St. Gloede]

Look great!

Of course, some of the top challenges for me clash, but that is just to be expected. There are always a few hard choices. (The toughest one will be to largely abandon Run the Director for Experimental/Avant-Garde, that was so fun this year).

Also great, there is at least one challenge I'm really interested in every month this year (except perhaps May and October - though an opportunity to watch more De Heer in May), which is a massive improvement.

[Onderhond]

I'll again voice my disappointment for Japan in January. If you want a good Japanese pairing, switch it with Middle East - excl. Iran maybe?

[sol]

I'll again voice my disappointment for Japan in January. If you want a good Japanese pairing, switch it with Middle East - excl. Iran maybe?

Yeah, um, that isn't going to happen. If you follow the discussions on this thread, we are trying to avoid having months where challenge triples and doubles are easy. I don't really understand your problem with Japan being in January either. The Oscars are going to be in April next year and the whole 2021 awards calendar is out-of-sync, so I really doubt that End of Year lists will distract as much next year as maybe they have done in previous years (and to be honest, I don't think that's ever been the case).

[sol]

There are always a few hard choices. (The toughest one will be to largely abandon Run the Director for Experimental/Avant-Garde, that was so fun this year).

Yes, there will always be tough choices; we can never please everyone. I'm half-tempted to nail this in like Lonewolf said above, but it's probably only fair to leave this open for longer so that everyone can have their two cents.

That said, I don't understand the "abandon" mentality. Maybe if you're trying to beat BBB and win a challenge sure, but otherwise I have had several months this year in which I have watched large amounts of films for two challenges that I liked with minimal overlap.

[Melvelet]

I'll again voice my disappointment for Japan in January. If you want a good Japanese pairing, switch it with Middle East - excl. Iran maybe?

Japanese animation has too much synergy if we want to avoid that (but I could also imagine that Japanese Sci-Fi yields quite a bit). Would personally like to find another month for Japan too (so it doesn't get completely marginalised by 1000<400 for me) although I struggle to find a convincing reason (other than January appearing quite high-profile in comparison to other months) although ironically my very own wish has lead to this pairing

Apart from that the schedule looks really good, thanks sol!

[Onderhond]

I'll again voice my disappointment for Japan in January. If you want a good Japanese pairing, switch it with Middle East - excl. Iran maybe?

Yeah, um, that isn't going to happen. If you follow the discussions on this thread, we are trying to avoid having months where challenge triples and doubles are easy. I don't really understand your problem with Japan being in January either. The Oscars are going to be in April next year and the whole 2021 awards calendar is out-of-sync, so I really doubt that End of Year lists will distract as much next year as maybe they have done in previous years (and to be honest, I don't think that's ever been the case).

Well, if easy pairings are a problem than Japan + sci-fi/fantasy is a combo you'll be wanting to avoid too, since that's virtually the same as Japan + animation. 90% of anime falls under that blanket combination. May/Oceania sounds like a good switch then.

And regardless of Oscar season (didn't know that shifted though, which I guess means screener season will shift with it) I assume the endless release of eoy lists will still influence viewing habits in January.

[sol]

Well, if easy pairings are a problem than Japan + sci-fi/fantasy is a combo you'll be wanting to avoid too, since that's virtually the same as Japan + animation. 90% of anime falls under that blanket combination. May/Oceania sounds like a good switch then.

We could place Japan in February and switch Latin America to January. That would break OldAle's heart but you probably have a point and I'll make the switch if others agree.

(We should try to avoid having Oceania paired with Sci-Fi/Fantasy since we did this in 2018 already.)

[St. Gloede]

There are always a few hard choices. (The toughest one will be to largely abandon Run the Director for Experimental/Avant-Garde, that was so fun this year).

Yes, there will always be tough choices; we can never please everyone. I'm half-tempted to nail this in like Lonewolf said above, but it's probably only fair to leave this open for longer so that everyone can have their two cents.

That said, I don't understand the "abandon" mentality. Maybe if you're trying to beat BBB and win a challenge sure, but otherwise I have had several months this year in which I have watched large amounts of films for two challenges that I liked with minimal overlap.

If I could watch as many films as BBB (or perhaps even you from time to time) there would be no need to "abandon" challenges, but I usually watch about 2 a day on average so I can't really dedicate myself properly if split in 2 or 3 - and I really want to dedicate myself to the Experimental/Avant Garde challenge.

In some cases where there is mixed interest I will split them, perhaps 20-25 for each, but that is difficult, and one will usually overshadow the other. I may still join in with a limited amount for the Run the Director challenge (and run a few experimental directors), but I will be far less absorbed by it.

France vs. Travel the World vs. Run the Actor is another difficult one. I will likely just skip France, as it is one of the countries I always see the most from regardless - and probably Run the Actor too, as that loses a bit of power if it is not done properly - but you never know - too early to say. But it is mostly a focus/passion issue. Of course I could always do 10-20 from each - but feels a bit cheap travelling the world with 10 countries Would much rather have 50+.

[Traveller]

Perhaps switch Japan with Korea (although I was the one initially suggesting August for it)? I agree with Onderhond regarding Japan; it will likely be one of the most popular country challenges, so pairing it in January (and my viewing habits are indeed, admittedly, influenced be catching up on the last year, as much as that is possible this year, which might be the same case for others) with the popular Sci-Fi and 1000<400 makes the month even more stacked. Wouldn't mind to have Japan in May, either.

[Traveller]

Well, if easy pairings are a problem than Japan + sci-fi/fantasy is a combo you'll be wanting to avoid too, since that's virtually the same as Japan + animation. 90% of anime falls under that blanket combination. May/Oceania sounds like a good switch then.

We could place Japan in February and switch Latin America to January. That would break OldAle's heart but you probably have a point and I'll make the switch if others agree.

I'm okay with that also. So a +1 from me. :thumbs:

Not the breaking OldAle's heart part, of course.

[hurluberlu]

Well, if easy pairings are a problem than Japan + sci-fi/fantasy is a combo you'll be wanting to avoid too, since that's virtually the same as Japan + animation. 90% of anime falls under that blanket combination. May/Oceania sounds like a good switch then.

We could place Japan in February and switch Latin America to January. That would break OldAle's heart but you probably have a point and I'll make the switch if others agree.

I'm okay with that also. So a +1 from me. :thumbs:

Not the breaking OldAle's heart part, of course.

+1

[sol]

Fine. Let's put in the change. I agree that keeping Japan and Fantasy apart makes sense. Sorry, Ale.

Updated version:

2021 Challenge Schedule: A Work in Progress

Month	Country Challenge	Theme Challenge	Theme Challenge
January	Latin America - excl. Ar, Br, Uy & Mx	Sci-Fi/Fantasy	1000<400
February	Japan	Experimental/Avant-Garde	Run the Director
March	UK/Ireland	Directed by Women	Waves from Around World
April	Middle East - excl. Iran	Doubling the Canon Nominees	Animation
May	Oceania	Western	Mystery & Thriller
June	Italy	One Film From Each Year	LGBTIQ+
July	France	Travel the World	Run the Actor
August	Korean Peninsula	<400 Checks	Action & Adventure
September	Eastern Europe - excl. Russia & Balkans	Silent Era	Low IMDb Rating
October	Benelux	Horror	One Film From Each iCM List
November	Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay	Film Noir	War movies
December	Iran & Central Asia	Documentary	Unofficial

[St. Gloede]

Haha, now you're breaking my heart .... You can't put Japan, the language/country challenge I was looking forward to the most, with my the most heartbreaking split I already had.

[RogerTheMovieManiac88]

Anybody fancy some Japanese horror next year, and some Dutch experimentalism?

[sol]

If that's what everybody else wants, sure. Only reluctance for me is that Japan is well known for their horror films (then again, a lot of countries are).