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iCM Forum World Cup Season 3 - Round 2 preparation

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iCM Forum World Cup Season 3 - Round 2 preparation

#1

Post by joachimt »

Let's have a place to prepare round 2 of the World Cup. In this OP I'll list all the decisions about how round 2 will be done. You can also use it to discuss countries and possible choices, but managers shouldn't post their selected movies here. Instead they should PM them to me.

DEADLINE TO SUBMIT YOUR MOVIE: August 17th
Countdown till deadline

Decisions about round 2:
- 8 groups of each 3 countries.
- The groups will be made randomly from 3 pots. Pot 1 will include the 8 #1's of round 1 with highest average rank. Pot 2 will include the 4 #1's with the lowest average rank and the 4 #2's with the highest average rank. Pot 3 will include the 8 #2's with the lowest average rank (in case of a tie, most #1-votes is the tiebreaker).
- Countries that competed against each other in round 1, won't compete against each other again in round 2.
- Two countries with the same manager won't be in the same group.
- Pace will be 3 weeks per match with 1 week overlap.
- First match starts August the 19th.
- Scoring will be the same as round 1.
- Only the winner of the group proceeds to the quarter finals.

Guidelines for managers to choose a movie:
- Less than 1000 checks (at the moment the movie is picked).
- Maximum runtime of 180 minutes.
- Only one movie per director for a country in the whole season. A director with movies in multiple countries can be chosen for once for each country.
- No movies from season 1 or season 2.
- Coproductions are allowed, but with an explanation why a movie certainly belongs to the country it competes for.

Countries that proceed from round 1 to round 2:
Position R1Average rankingMatchCountryManagers
11.837FJapanmonty
11.892JGreecetommy_leazaq
11.905CRomaniaclemmetarey
11.919IPolandsebby
11.972LGermanyLilarcor
12BChinahurluberlu
12DFranceklaus78
12HGeorgiatarr
12.049GEnglandfunkybusiness
12.171ECzechiaCarmel98
12.255ACroatiaMochard
12.282KSwitzerlandNathan Treadway
22.027JMexicoDaviddoes
22.143CHungarytarr
22.189IUSAfilmbantha
22.233BSpainbeavis
22.268EBoliviaburneyfan
22.268HTaiwanmjf314
22.317GHong KongSmoover
22.319ABurkina Fasohurluberlu
22.378DIndiatommy_leazaq
22.512FLebanonArmoreska
22.538KBrazilGorro
22.583LAustriametaller
Last edited by joachimt on August 15th, 2018, 10:33 am, edited 7 times in total.
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#2

Post by Fergenaprido »

Can we have a clause that countries cannot be placed in the same group as their opponent from round 1?
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#3

Post by joachimt »

Fergenaprido wrote: July 13th, 2018, 7:13 pm Can we have a clause that countries cannot be placed in the same group as their opponent from round 1?
Agreed. We talked about this before I think. I'll add it.
I also add the rules for managers to choose a movie.
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#4

Post by joachimt »

OP updated. I added the table with winners so far. Obviously group K and L will be added later.

There is a tie of an average ranking of 2.000. If these three will be around the border between pot 1 and pot 2, the country with most #1-votes will have advantage.
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#5

Post by Mario Gaborović »

joachimt wrote: July 13th, 2018, 7:27 pm OP updated. I added the table with winners so far. Obviously group K and L will be added later.

There is a tie of an average ranking of 2.000. If these three will be around the border between pot 1 and pot 2, the country with most #1-votes will have advantage.
I think Mexico-to-Spain (2nd ranked) should be ahead of countries like Croatia. It doesn't matter them being 2nd because they scored better. Yet I doubt that it would make a single change when it comes to pot allocation.
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#6

Post by joachimt »

Mario Gaborović wrote: July 14th, 2018, 1:36 am
joachimt wrote: July 13th, 2018, 7:27 pm OP updated. I added the table with winners so far. Obviously group K and L will be added later.

There is a tie of an average ranking of 2.000. If these three will be around the border between pot 1 and pot 2, the country with most #1-votes will have advantage.
I think Mexico-to-Spain (2nd ranked) should be ahead of countries like Croatia. It doesn't matter them being 2nd because they scored better. Yet I doubt that it would make a single change when it comes to pot allocation.
No, I'm not going to do the pots solely on average ranking. In the real world cup they don't give second places advantage over other first places, because they scores more goals.
Also, one group is stronger than another, so all these numbers are subjective, just like in the real world cup.
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#7

Post by tommy_leazaq »

Any help on Greece is appreciated.
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#8

Post by joachimt »

tommy_leazaq wrote: July 14th, 2018, 7:54 am Any help on Greece is appreciated.
I can help with Greece, but I think some people want me to remain completely neutral in this game. :rolleyes:
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#9

Post by hurluberlu »

Obviously the groups will be made after everyone has submitted movies ?

Also, we might be 3-4 managers with still two countries in game, it would not be fun to have the two countries ending up in the same group.

I am puzzled that ~80% of the first round movies were below 250checks. If the majority of us is more into selecting and sharing less regarded movies than just competing to win maybe we should take that aspect of the game a little further for the next competition like having a max number of checks that reduces round after round (500max for R1, 400 for R2, 300 for 1/4...).
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#10

Post by Armoreska »

joachimt wrote: July 14th, 2018, 8:04 am
tommy_leazaq wrote: July 14th, 2018, 7:54 am Any help on Greece is appreciated.
I can help with Greece, but I think some people want me to remain completely neutral in this game. :rolleyes:
You can't be completely neutral anyway since you watch or have watched these movies too.
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#11

Post by joachimt »

hurluberlu wrote: July 14th, 2018, 8:12 am Obviously the groups will be made after everyone has submitted movies ?

Also, we might be 3-4 managers with still two countries in game, it would not be fun to have the two countries ending up in the same group.

I am puzzled that ~80% of the first round movies were below 250checks. If the majority of us is more into selecting and sharing less regarded movies than just competing to win maybe we should take that aspect of the game a little further for the next competition like having a max number of checks that reduces round after round (500max for R1, 400 for R2, 300 for 1/4...).
- I'll make the groups when I get back from vacation (around 14th of August), but I will reveal them after everyone has submitted their movies.
- Good point. Managers shouldn't compete against themselves. I'll add it.
- Nice idea. We can discuss this in a year or so when we start preparing season 4.
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#12

Post by joachimt »

Armoreska wrote: July 14th, 2018, 8:21 am
joachimt wrote: July 14th, 2018, 8:04 am
tommy_leazaq wrote: July 14th, 2018, 7:54 am Any help on Greece is appreciated.
I can help with Greece, but I think some people want me to remain completely neutral in this game. :rolleyes:
You can't be completely neutral anyway since you watch or have watched these movies too.
Yeah, that's true.
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#14

Post by beavis »

O drakos is a safe bet
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#15

Post by tommy_leazaq »

Thanks for the recommendations. Will watch them all and decide :)
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#16

Post by monty »

Currently considering a few interesting samurai flicks for Round 2...
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#17

Post by wasabi »

monty wrote: July 17th, 2018, 5:19 pm Currently considering a few interesting samurai flicks for Round 2...
any good samurai movies after 2000?
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#18

Post by Mate_cosido »

wasabi wrote: July 23rd, 2018, 5:35 am any good samurai movies after 2000?
I'm sure monty will be able to reccomend more, but from what i've watched, Ichikawa's Dora heita - Alley Cat; Yoji Yamada's Samurai trilogy (The Hidden Blade, Twilight Samurai and Love and Honour); and Miike's remake of 13 Assassins, are the best of this century
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#19

Post by joachimt »

I just made the template of the schedule for round 2. The last match of round 2 will end December the 16th, right in time for Christmas. Maybe good to idea to start round 3 after the holidays.

I've received three movies for round 2 so far.
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#20

Post by cinewest »

Is there a list somewhere of the movies that triumphed in the previous round?
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#21

Post by joachimt »

cinewest wrote: July 23rd, 2018, 3:53 pm Is there a list somewhere of the movies that triumphed in the previous round?
It's in the OP.
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#22

Post by cinewest »

joachimt wrote: July 23rd, 2018, 3:57 pm
cinewest wrote: July 23rd, 2018, 3:53 pm Is there a list somewhere of the movies that triumphed in the previous round?
It's in the OP.
Thanks for your reply. I can see the entrants by clicking on season 1 or season 2, but how do I determine which films lead their countries to victory?

Also, is there a handy way to get access to these films during the competition? I participated in a recent vote because I happened to have already seen all 4 films, but very few of these are easy to find.
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#23

Post by joachimt »

cinewest wrote: July 23rd, 2018, 4:34 pm
joachimt wrote: July 23rd, 2018, 3:57 pm
cinewest wrote: July 23rd, 2018, 3:53 pm Is there a list somewhere of the movies that triumphed in the previous round?
It's in the OP.
Thanks for your reply. I can see the entrants by clicking on season 1 or season 2, but how do I determine which films lead their countries to victory?

Also, is there a handy way to get access to these films during the competition? I participated in a recent vote because I happened to have already seen all 4 films, but very few of these are easy to find.
Oh, you meant previous seasons, not previous round. I'll see if I can make a list.

About access. Well, just pay attention and you'll find them.
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#24

Post by Mario Gaborović »

joachimt wrote: July 23rd, 2018, 5:19 pm
cinewest wrote: July 23rd, 2018, 4:34 pm
joachimt wrote: July 23rd, 2018, 3:57 pm
It's in the OP.
Thanks for your reply. I can see the entrants by clicking on season 1 or season 2, but how do I determine which films lead their countries to victory?

Also, is there a handy way to get access to these films during the competition? I participated in a recent vote because I happened to have already seen all 4 films, but very few of these are easy to find.
Oh, you meant previous seasons, not previous round. I'll see if I can make a list.

About access. Well, just pay attention and you'll find them.
Always on your service:
https://letterboxd.com/mariogaborovic/l ... -season-1/
https://letterboxd.com/mariogaborovic/l ... -season-2/
https://letterboxd.com/mariogaborovic/l ... -season-3/
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#25

Post by joachimt »

Winners for each match of season 1:

Round 1:
group A: El extraño viaje (Spain, sortile9io)
group B: Već viđeno (Serbia, Mario Gaborovic)
group C: La nana (Chile, monty)
group D: Voskhozhdenie (Russia, Gershwin)
group E: Doro no kawa (Japan, Melvelet)
group F: Ole dole doff (Sweden, Dolwphin)
group G: Pociąg (Poland, Carmel98)
group H: Tabutta Rövaşata (Turkey, mjf314)
group I: Shen nu (China, zhangalan)
group J: Museum Hours (Austria, funkybusiness)
group K: Sult (Denmark, Gershwin)
group L: Brand Upon the Brain! A Remembrance in 12 Chapters (Canada, Serriform)
group M: O Pagador de Promessas (Brazil, SkilledLunatic)
group N: Jakten (Norway, joachimt)
group O: Az ötödik pecsét (Hungary, mjf314)
group P: La perla (Mexico, monty)

Round 2:
group A: Neotpravlennoye pismo (Russia, Gershwin)
group B: Dalias idok (Hungary, mjf314)
group C: O Assalto ao Trem Pagador (Brazil, ArthurYanthar)
group D: Na wylot (Poland, Carmel98)
group E: Bei kao bei, lian dui lian (China, zhangalan)
group F: Julio comienza en julio (Chile, monty)
group G: Muerte de un ciclista (Spain, sortile9io)
group H: Shura (Japan, Melvelet)

Round 3:
group A: Az en XX. Szazadom (Hungary, mjf314)
group B: El verdugo (Spain, sortile9io)
group C: Yume no ginga (Japan, Melvelet)
group D: Swiadectwo urodzenia (Poland, Carmel98)

Semi-final:
group A: Blancanieves (Spain, sortile9io)
group B: Przesluchanie (Poland, Carmel98)

Final:
Amator (Poland, Carmel98)
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#26

Post by joachimt »

Winners for each match of season 2:

1A: Court (India, tommy_leazaq)
1B: Calle Mayor (Spain, monty)
1C: Doa al karawan (Egypt, tommy_leazaq)
1D: H-8… (Croatia, Fergenaprido)
1E: En kärlekshistoria (Sweden, bjornam)
1F: Petla (Poland, klaus78)
1G: Qing shao nian nuo zha (Taiwan, Carmel98)
1H: Little Fugitive (USA, klaus78)
1I: Tange Sazen yowa: Hyakuman ryo no tsubo (Japan, mjf314)
1J: Il sorpasso (Italy, sortile9io)
1K: Szerelem (Hungary, kingink)
1L: Kelin (Kazakhstan, mightysparks)
1M: Kocár do Vídne (Czech Republic, funkybusiness)
1N: Tiger Bay (England, blocho)
1O: Memorias del subdesarrollo (Cuba, sacmersault)
1P: A fost sau n-a fost? (Romania, sacmersault)

2A: Spalovac mrtvol (Czech Republic, funkybusiness)
2B: Duo sang (Taiwan, Carmel98)
2C: Los santos inocentes (Spain, monty)
2D: Io la conoscevo bene (Italy, sortile9io)
2E: Final Cut: Hölgyeim és uraim (Hungary, kingink)
2F: Lucky Star (USA, klaus78)
2G: Umimachi Diary (Japan, mjf314)
2H: Bab el hadid (Egypt, tommy_leazaq)

QF-A: Al-boustaguy (Egypt, tommy_leazaq)
QF-B: The Swimmer (USA, klaus78)
QF-C: I compagni (Italy, sortile9io)
QF-D: El cochecito (Spain, monty)

SF-A: Il posto (Italy, sortile9io)
SF-B: Yellow Sky (USA, klaus78)

Final: Una giornata particolare (Italy, sortile9io)
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#27

Post by cinewest »

Thanks a lot, everyone
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#28

Post by DulceDoes »

Having finally achieved my goal of getting past the first round, I'm thinking of choosing a more transgressive pick for Mexico. Any thoughts on if I should do that or maybe just play it safe?
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#29

Post by Gershwin »

I'm not sure what you mean by playing it safe. But I'm not a huge fan of the Macario type of film, so personally I'd be happy with something more similar to for instance Stellet licht.
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#30

Post by joachimt »

Well, a mayor point of the WC is for people to discover new movies, so you can pick what you think deserves a wider audience. On the other hand, it is a game, so it would be pointless to pick a movie that you don't think people would love.

Playing safe means picking a movie of which you know lots of people here love it, something high on 500<400 or DtC. But if you pick a movie that hasn't been picked up by this forum yet or not enough and you do win, the victory is probably better.
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#31

Post by beavis »

Post Tenebras Lux 2012
Halley 2012
Club Sandwich 2013
Heli 2013
Los Ausentes 2014
Güeros 2014

Some of my recent favorites for Mexico.... recent art-house is already a bit less safe in the Worldcup it seems, but Post Tenebras Lux and Heli are the only films here I would call transgressive. It is worth a try. Jean Gentil (also partly Mexican) is doing well, so find a pearl like that and you're set! :)
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#32

Post by sortile9io »

As a past manager I'm more inclined to play the competitive side of the tournament but I can understand why other managers take the (excellent) chance to promote their own hidden gems, transgressive or not. Personally I'd like to see Mexico advancing to the next rounds but it's completely up to you and your commitment to the Mexican fans.
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#33

Post by zhangalan »

joachimt wrote: July 24th, 2018, 9:39 am Well, a mayor point of the WC is for people to discover new movies, so you can pick what you think deserves a wider audience. On the other hand, it is a game, so it would be pointless to pick a movie that you don't think people would love.

Playing safe means picking a movie of which you know lots of people here love it, something high on 500<400 or DtC. But if you pick a movie that hasn't been picked up by this forum yet or not enough and you do win, the victory is probably better.
Films on DTC are not really safe picks because the rules are completely different.
On the other hand, films high on 500<400 list are good considerations. At least they are selected by quite a number of members of this forum.

I do recommend Arturo Ripstein's Hell Without Limits and Emilio Fernández's Enamorada, but I guess most people will consider the former one too melodramatic.
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#34

Post by DulceDoes »

Thanks for all the replies. I definitely have a lot to consider before making a choice.
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#35

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

zhangalan wrote: July 24th, 2018, 11:31 am I do recommend Arturo Ripstein's Hell Without Limits
This
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#36

Post by monty »

Mate_cosido wrote: July 23rd, 2018, 2:38 pm
wasabi wrote: July 23rd, 2018, 5:35 am any good samurai movies after 2000?
I'm sure monty will be able to reccomend more, but from what i've watched, Ichikawa's Dora heita - Alley Cat; Yoji Yamada's Samurai trilogy (The Hidden Blade, Twilight Samurai and Love and Honour); and Miike's remake of 13 Assassins, are the best of this century
Excellent recs there, mate_cosido. In addition, I think you should seek out Hisshiken torisashi (2010)AKA Sword of Desperation, Mibu gishi den (2002), Sukedachi-ya Sukeroku (2001), Ogawa no hotori (2011) Shundô (2013) and Chô kôsoku! Sankin kôtai (2014).

Moreover, although I'm quite the purist in matters chanbara, I rather enjoyed Miike's latest samurai offering, Blade of the Immortal (2017). It's quite decent considering its manga roots.
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#37

Post by sacmersault »

Daviddoes wrote: July 24th, 2018, 9:29 am Having finally achieved my goal of getting past the first round, I'm thinking of choosing a more transgressive pick for Mexico. Any thoughts on if I should do that or maybe just play it safe?
The recommendations you got are pretty recent. If you want to go with older and typical (Melodramas, etc), you should look into the films that competed in the Concursos de Cine Experimental. Most movies from the festival were non-experimental but differed from the cinema that was being made during that time 60s.

Examples:
El espectador impertinente
Un alma pura
Encuentro
Una próxima luna
Tajimara
La fórmula secreta
etc...

Most are seldom seen but are just the type for this forum. The only problem with most of them is hard to find and subtitles.
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#38

Post by DulceDoes »

Yeah, I did a quick search at the best place I know to find rarities and only La fórmula secreta pops up.
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#39

Post by sacmersault »

Daviddoes wrote: August 4th, 2018, 10:14 am Yeah, I did a quick search at the best place I know to find rarities and only La fórmula secreta pops up.
TBH that's the best one and most known, but amazing nonetheless. There are tons of others less known but hard to get. There are other newer that are good but riskier: Canoa, Cuentos de hadas para dormir cocodrilos, etc. If you want any more suggestions you can PM. I'm Mexican and have studied a lot of Mexican cinema but don't feel qualified to choose Mexico, even though its probably the country I know the most. Contemporary Mexican cinema is great but people here don't seem to click with it. Old and grey or you might not move on tbh.

Non-European or Japanese movies here do not have much of a chance...

Good luck
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#40

Post by Gershwin »

sacmersault wrote: August 5th, 2018, 5:38 am
Daviddoes wrote: August 4th, 2018, 10:14 am Yeah, I did a quick search at the best place I know to find rarities and only La fórmula secreta pops up.
TBH that's the best one and most known, but amazing nonetheless. There are tons of others less known but hard to get. There are other newer that are good but riskier: Canoa, Cuentos de hadas para dormir cocodrilos, etc. If you want any more suggestions you can PM. I'm Mexican and have studied a lot of Mexican cinema but don't feel qualified to choose Mexico, even though its probably the country I know the most. Contemporary Mexican cinema is great but people here don't seem to click with it. Old and grey or you might not move on tbh.

Non-European or Japanese movies here do not have much of a chance...

Good luck
Well, speaking for myself it's the contrary. I don't really understand the love for the older B&W Mexican cinema, whereas I like the more recent output I've seen (not much though). What makes you think these oldies will do better? That may be true for European big-hitters like Poland, Czechoslovakia, Italy or France, which had great (influence from) new waves in the 50s or 60s, but I don't know why the same would be true for Mexico.
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