iCM Forum World Cup - Season 3 - Round 1 schedule

[maxwelldeux]

I was under the impression as well that the top two from each group progressed, rather as in major soccer tournaments. Perhaps Joachim can clarify?

It is - the top two from each group move on. That much is clear from the first post in the preparation topic.

What I think joachimt has written out there is the scoring mechanism to determine winners - each group will have a winner and a second place, and he lays out how ranks are determined and how ties are broken, and how it's handled in the event the tie can't be broken. Admittedly, it's not super clear from that text that two countries move on, but they do, and that info is around.

[RogerTheMovieManiac88]

I was under the impression as well that the top two from each group progressed, rather as in major soccer tournaments. Perhaps Joachim can clarify?

It is - the top two from each group move on. That much is clear from the first post in the preparation topic.

What I think joachimt has written out there is the scoring mechanism to determine winners - each group will have a winner and a second place, and he lays out how ranks are determined and how ties are broken, and how it's handled in the event the tie can't be broken. Admittedly, it's not super clear from that text that two countries move on, but they do, and that info is around.

Aha, cheers Maxwell! Silly me. Yes, that makes sense now.

Loving the Documentary Challenge and all its contributions, by the way. I've seen a few over the last while. Must add them to the thread when I get a chance!

[maxwelldeux]

I was under the impression as well that the top two from each group progressed, rather as in major soccer tournaments. Perhaps Joachim can clarify?

It is - the top two from each group move on. That much is clear from the first post in the preparation topic.

What I think joachimt has written out there is the scoring mechanism to determine winners - each group will have a winner and a second place, and he lays out how ranks are determined and how ties are broken, and how it's handled in the event the tie can't be broken. Admittedly, it's not super clear from that text that two countries move on, but they do, and that info is around.

Aha, cheers Maxwell! Silly me. Yes, that makes sense now.

Loving the Documentary Challenge and all its contributions, by the way. I've seen a few over the last while. Must add them to the thread when I get a chance!

Thanks! And please do post them!

[Eve-Lang-El-Coup]

Looking at my group, I'm utterly screwed. I guess that's where not feeling the urge to watch movies gets you.

Oh and most of the movies I haven't seen look appealing.

[jvv]

I've only seen 2. Got my work cut out for me.

[maxwelldeux]

I've only seen 2. Got my work cut out for me.

Oh good - I've seen only one. I thought I was the only one down this low.

[Gershwin]

Spanish subs were done with love and care.

Well, the vast majority here will want the Engish subs, which sadly are vastly lacking. Personally, I'd never nominate a film with machine translated English subs.

Well, I do not remember the subs impacting in any way my viewing of the film to be honest. I wouldn't have picked it otherwise.

I didn't have any trouble while watching it, as far as I remember. I might have different subs. Will look it up one of these days.

[Gershwin]

Oh, and thanks for all the work you've already put in this, JT. Much appreciated!

[Armoreska]

There are actually russian subs for Padurea spânzuratilor (sounds like a name for a kitchen appliance), so I might be of help if find time

[Armoreska]

Here's managers wall of shame from last WC
mightysparks (15)
sacmersault (15)
kingink (14)
bjornam (13)
blocho (10)
Melvelet (9)
Daviddoes (7)

Yeesh. I work 80 hours a week in a public service job dedicated to restoring some hope and opportunity to a society falling apart because of racial animus and social inequality.

And now I get a wall of shame because I don't have the time to properly indulge my sole remaining source of pleasure in the world?

I'm going to carry this cross like an albatross around my neck.

Well now we know who the real local hero is. How do you do 80 hours? I work 40 at most, and I'm dead by the weekend.

[Gershwin]

Here's managers wall of shame from last WC
mightysparks (15)
sacmersault (15)
kingink (14)
bjornam (13)
blocho (10)
Melvelet (9)
Daviddoes (7)

Yeesh. I work 80 hours a week in a public service job dedicated to restoring some hope and opportunity to a society falling apart because of racial animus and social inequality.

And now I get a wall of shame because I don't have the time to properly indulge my sole remaining source of pleasure in the world?

I'm going to carry this cross like an albatross around my neck.

Well now we know who the real local hero is. How do you do 80 hours? I work 40 at most, and I'm dead by the weekend.

Does 40 hours of regular work and 40 hours of raising future generations also count as an 80 hours job?

[joachimt]

Welcome to the schedule of iCM Forum World Cup - Season 3 - Round 1. If you don't know what this is. Read the preparation topic.

Rules in the group phase:
- You must watch all 4 films of a match before you vote.
- To vote, rank the 4 films from most favorite to least favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)
- The winner of the match is the film that beats the other 3 films head-to-head. If A "beats" B, it means that A is ranked higher than B more often than B is ranked higher than A.
- If there's no winner using this method, it'll be decided by average rank.
- If there's no winner using average rank, there'll be a 3 day extension of the match hoping for new votes.
- Don't vote in this thread. Each match will have its own thread according to the schedule.

ICM-list of all movies in this World Cup

List of all topic related to the World Cup

Round 1 schedule

Group A: 2017-12-31 till 2018-1-28

Country	Original Title	English Title	Year	Manager	IMDB	ICM
Russia	Kholodnoe leto pyatdesyat tretego	The Cold Summer of 1953	1988	blocho	link	link
Iran	Gavaznha	The Deer	1974	zhangalan	link	link
Croatia	Ne okreci se sine	My Son Don't Turn Round	1956	Mochard	link	link
Burkina Faso	Buud Yam		1997	hurluberlu	link	link

Group B: 2018-1-17 till 2018-2-14

Country	Original Title	English Title	Year	Manager	IMDB	ICM
Spain	Arrebato	Rapture	1979	beavis	link	link
China	Mang jing	Blind Shaft	2003	hurluberlu	link	link
Finland	Käpy selän alla	Skin, Skin	1966	nimimerkillinen	link	link
Malaysia	Hei yan quan	I Don't Want to Sleep Alone	2006	Fergenaprido	link	link

Group C: 2018-2-4 till 2018-3-4

Country	Original Title	English Title	Year	Manager	IMDB	ICM
Hungary	Megáll az idö	Time Stands Still	1982	tarr	link	link
South Korea	Splash Splash Love		2015	mjf314	link	link
Romania	Padurea spânzuratilor	Forest of the Hanged	1965	clemmetarey	link	link
Uruguay	25 Watts		2001	toro913	link	link

Group D: 2018-2-21 till 2018-3-21

Country	Original Title	English Title	Year	Manager	IMDB	ICM
France	Une si jolie petite plage	Such a Pretty Little Beach	1949	klaus78	link	link
India	Dabba	The Lunchbox	2013	tommy_leazaq	link	link
Serbia	Paviljon broj VI	Ward Six	1973	Mario Gaborović	link	link
Mali	Yeelen	Brightness	1987	Fergenaprido	link	link

Group E: 2018-3-11 till 2018-4-8

Country	Original Title	English Title	Year	Manager	IMDB	ICM
Czechia	Neúplné zatmení	Incomplete Eclipse	1983	Carmel98	link	link
Australia	Samson and Delilah		2009	Daviddoes	link	link
Latvia	Motociklu vasara		1975	RogerTheMovieManiac88	link	link
Bolivia	Ukamau	And So It Is	1966	burneyfan	link	link

Group F: 2018-3-28 till 2018-4-25

Country	Original Title	English Title	Year	Manager	IMDB	ICM
Sweden	Ingeborg Holm	Margaret Day	1913	PeacefulAnarchy	link	link
Japan	Sanbiki no samurai	Three Outlaw Samurai	1964	monty	link	link
Turkey	Bulanti	Nausea	2015	XxXApathy420XxX	link	link
Lebanon	West Beyrouth (À l'abri les enfants)	West Beirut	1998	Armoreska	link	link

Group G: 2018-4-15 till 2018-5-13

Country	Original Title	English Title	Year	Manager	IMDB	ICM
England	Ice Cold in Alex		1958	funkybusiness	link	link
Hong Kong	Tou ze	A Simple Life	2011	Smoover	link	link
Bulgaria	Ritzar bez bronya	Knight Without Armour	1966	Mario Gaborović	link	link
Argentina	La casa del ángel	End of Innocence	1957	RBG	link	link

Group H: 2018-5-2 till 2018-5-30

Country	Original Title	English Title	Year	Manager	IMDB	ICM
Portugal	Recordações da Casa Amarela	Recollections of the Yellow House	1989	Pgonzalez	link	link
Taiwan	Wo zhe yang guo le yi sheng	Kuei-mei, a Woman	1985	mjf314	link	link
Georgia	Pirosmani		1969	tarr	link	link
Morocco	Le grand voyage	The Great Journey	2004	jvv	link	link

Group I: 2018-5-20 till 2018-6-17

Country	Original Title	English Title	Year	Manager	IMDB	ICM
Poland	Constans	The Constant Factor	1980	sebby	link	link
USA	The Incident		1967	filmbantha	link	link
The Netherlands	Ne me quitte pas		2013	Gershwin	link	link
Peru	La boca del lobo	In the Mouth of the Wolf	1988	sacmersault	link	link

Group J: 2018-6-6 till 2018-7-4

Country	Original Title	English Title	Year	Manager	IMDB	ICM
Greece	O fovos	The Fear	1966	tommy_leazaq	link	link
Mexico	Macario		1960	Daviddoes	link	link
Bosnia and Herzegovina	Sjecas li se Dolly Bell?	Do You Remember Dolly Bell?	1981	Cynical Cinephile	link	link
Thailand	36		2012	Lonewolf2003	link	link

Group K: 2018-6-24 till 2018-7-22

Country	Original Title	English Title	Year	Manager	IMDB	ICM
Italy	C'eravamo tanto amati	We All Loved Each Other So Much	1974	toro913	link	link
Brazil	Lavoura Arcaica	To the Left of the Father	2001	Gorro	link	link
Switzerland	Reise der Hoffnung	Journey of Hope	1990	Nathan Treadway	link	link
Vietnam	Mùa len trâu	The Buffalo Boy	2004	Eve-Lang-El-Coup	link	link

Group L: 2018-7-11 till 2018-8-8

Country	Original Title	English Title	Year	Manager	IMDB	ICM
Germany	Ich war neunzehn	I Was Nineteen	1968	Lilarcor	link	link
Canada	Les bons debarras	Good Riddance	1980	Armoreska	link	link
Austria	Das finstere Tal	The Dark Valley	2014	metaller	link	link
Dominican Republic	Jean Gentil		2010	Angel Glez	link	link

I thought 2 countries went through. From the rules it seems to say that only the winner of the group will go through.

Oops. I copied the text from last year's thread and made some adjustments, but I forgot that one. I'll change it now.

[Mate_cosido]

I'm really excited for this, i was considering being a manager but i was afraid i'll do something wrong, maybe next time

I've watched 12, and liked all of them, so i'm really looking forward for the rest, i was actually planning to see one for the conquer the world challenge

[Fergenaprido]

I've only seen 2. Got my work cut out for me.

Oh good - I've seen only one. I thought I was the only one down this low.

I've seen 5, of which 2 are my own picks. It's an increase from previous seasons, though, where I'd only seen 1 and 2 in advance.

[nimimerkillinen]

5 for me too of which 1 is my pick

[Cocoa]

I've also only seen 5.

[joachimt]

I updated the index.

[Melvelet]

Here's managers wall of shame from last WC
mightysparks (15)
sacmersault (15)
kingink (14)
bjornam (13)
blocho (10)
Melvelet (9)
Daviddoes (7)

What do the numbers in brackets denote?

rounds taken part in

Yeah, I'm not the overall loser!

[monty]

I've also only seen 5.

I've seen 23. Still a lot of promising discoveries to be made...

[blocho]

Here's managers wall of shame from last WC
mightysparks (15)
sacmersault (15)
kingink (14)
bjornam (13)
blocho (10)
Melvelet (9)
Daviddoes (7)

Yeesh. I work 80 hours a week in a public service job dedicated to restoring some hope and opportunity to a society falling apart because of racial animus and social inequality.

And now I get a wall of shame because I don't have the time to properly indulge my sole remaining source of pleasure in the world?

I'm going to carry this cross like an albatross around my neck.

Well now we know who the real local hero is. How do you do 80 hours? I work 40 at most, and I'm dead by the weekend.

I think I'm tortured by a strong sense of inadequacy and, having been born into some privilege, a constant need to prove that I'm not lazy. But don't let me get going down this road.

And in answer to your question, caffeine.

[joachimt]

I've been thinking about the scoring system and how it would work out with four countries in a group. With three it was rather easy: two wins is the winner. Two countries with one win and one tie is decided by average rank etc...

Now with four. In theory any result head-to-head is possible. So let's try this for example:

A>B
A>C
A<D
B>C
B=D
C=D

A: 2 win, 0 tie, 1 loss
B: 1 win, 1 tie, 1 loss
C: 0 win, 1 tie, 2 loss
D: 1 win, 2 tie, 0 loss

Which country is the winner? A, because it won two? Or D because it lost none? It would be weird in this case if A is the winner and D second, while D beats A head to head. You could say it doesn't matter, because they both proceed anyway this way, but I could think of situations like this between #2 and #3 as well.

So what would be the best way? I think it would be to say a win is 2 points, a tie is 1 point and a loss is 0 points. A tie in points is solved with average rank. In the example above A and D would both have 4 points, B has 3 points and C has 1 point.

Thoughts?

[Mario Gaborović]

I think that's where goal difference - in our case, vote difference - comes to the fore.

[joachimt]

I think that's where goal difference - in our case, vote difference - comes to the fore.

That doesn't answer my question. What do you think is the winner? Two wins and one loss, or one win and two ties? Do you agree on my point-system?

After that, it's either average rank or vote-difference. I don't see why we should change that rule.

[Lonewolf2003]

2 wins imho.
Maybe a point system with a win = 3 points works better?

[PeacefulAnarchy]

Just go with average rank

[Mario Gaborović]

I think that's where goal difference - in our case, vote difference - comes to the fore.

That doesn't answer my question. What do you think is the winner? Two wins and one loss, or one win and two ties? Do you agree on my point-system?

After that, it's either average rank or vote-difference. I don't see why we should change that rule.

1) The number of wins
2) Vote difference

[maxwelldeux]

It took me longer than I care to admit to work out the scoring in my head. But now that I understand...

(I had to google this, but) Standard world cup scoring is Win = 3 points, Draw = 1 point, Loss = 0 points. So, in your example, A has six points, D has five points, B has four points, and C has one point. Pretty clear who moves on from there. With a 2/1/0 scoring system for Win/Draw/Loss, the same countries would move on, but it's less clear. It depends on how much you value wins vs. ties. Personally, I'd prefer the 3/1/0 scoring like with the FIFA World Cup, but that's just my opinion.

[joachimt]

Just go with average rank

I'm not considering vote difference. Average will remain the tie-breaker.

But what do you think should win: two wins or one win and two ties?

[PeacefulAnarchy]

3/1/0 is done in sports because it promotes goal scoring and disincentivizes bottling up to preserve a tie, not because it's fairer. There's no need for such incentives in this case. In joachimt's example D should be the winner.

[joachimt]

It took me longer than I care to admit to work out the scoring in my head. But now that I understand...

(I had to google this, but) Standard world cup scoring is Win = 3 points, Draw = 1 point, Loss = 0 points. So, in your example, A has six points, D has five points, B has four points, and C has one point. Pretty clear who moves on from there. With a 2/1/0 scoring system for Win/Draw/Loss, the same countries would move on, but it's less clear. It depends on how much you value wins vs. ties. Personally, I'd prefer the 3/1/0 scoring like with the FIFA World Cup, but that's just my opinion.

In previous years we didn't use a point-system, because it wasn't needed. With only three countries in a group there are far less possibilities. In all those cases the winner or the ties are clear, even without points.

[PeacefulAnarchy]

Just go with average rank

I'm not considering vote difference. Average will remain the tie-breaker.

But what do you think should win: two wins or one win and two ties?

I'm saying we should change the scoring and go with average rank as the primary ranking system. Wins/losses is a silly way to look at film matchups when everyone is ranking all the films anyway. That said as I wrote above, one win, two ties should be the winner.

[maxwelldeux]

Just go with average rank

I'm not considering vote difference. Average will remain the tie-breaker.

But what do you think should win: two wins or one win and two ties?

For me, two wins should win. I would value one win over two ties, which can be solved by 3 points for a win, 1 for a tie.

If you wanted to value two ties over one win, you could make a win = 3 points, and a tie = 2 points.

If you wanted to value one win and two ties equally, win = 2 points, tie = 1 point.

[joachimt]

In joachimt's example D should be the winner.

So you disagree with Lonewolf on this. Based on what rules should D be the winner?

Personally I think two wins equals one win and two ties, so A vs D should be decided by average rank.

[Mario Gaborović]

Now I think the average rank is best 'cause it's most simple and fair.

[joachimt]

I'd like to hear mjf's opinion on this. If I remember correctly he was the one who introduced the head-to-head method.

[PeacefulAnarchy]

In joachimt's example D should be the winner.

So you disagree with Lonewolf on this. Based on what rules should D be the winner?

Personally I think two wins equals one win and two ties, so A vs D should be decided by average rank.

Based on head to head. If you're making up the existence of wins and ties and ranking films that way, then since two wins equals a win+2 ties the tie breaker should be the winner between the two. But since I don't actually think we should be looking at things as wins and losses average rank is fine since it's what we should really be using anyway.

Every voting/ranking system of this sort will have an outlier scenario where an "unfair" result happens, by the way.

[PeacefulAnarchy]

Take for example:
10 people vote A>B>C>D
9 people vote B>C>D>A
that means
A is 3W-0L Avg 2.42
B is 2W-1L Avg 1.52
C is 1W-2L Avg 2.52
D is 0W-3L Avg 3.52

Even above I think the winner should be B, but the win loss system makes it seem like A is the clear victor when it's a very divisive film.


If one more person votes B>C>D>A then suddenly it becomes
A is 0W-0L-3D Avg 2.5
B is 2W-0L-1D Avg 1.5
C is 1W-1L-1D Avg 2.5
D is 0W-2L-1D Avg 3.5

How should this tie be broken? A and C have the same average rank and a head to head draw. C has a win, but also a loss, while A has no losses.

[joachimt]

Take for example:
10 people vote A>B>C>D
9 people vote B>C>D>A
that means
A is 3W-0L Avg 2.42
B is 2W-1L Avg 1.52
C is 1W-2L Avg 2.52
D is 0W-3L Avg 3.52

Good example.
I'm going to sleep on this. Still have 12 days left to figure this out.

[Mario Gaborović]

What's wrong with average rank?

[joachimt]

What's wrong with average rank?

Nothing. That's what PA is saying.