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iCM Forum's Favourite Directorial Debut Features; Nominations

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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Lonewolf2003
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#241

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

I contacted all listed directors to get their opinion about what should be eligible. Next Tuesday I have an appointment with a medium to get get in contact with all dead directors.

The choice for the cut-off for feature length could been discussed. Cause there indeed are good arguments to set it higher. But honestly the discussion about that started 3 months ago, when Ferge started this topic, there has been (almost) no feedback on it from anyone, so not going to open that discussion now a week before the deadline.
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#242

Post by OldAle1 »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 7:44 pm I contacted all listed directors to get their opinion about what should be eligible. Next Tuesday I have an appointment with a medium to get get in contact with all dead directors.

The choice for the cut-off for feature length could been discussed. Cause there indeed are good arguments to set it higher. But honestly the discussion about that started 3 months ago, when Ferge started this topic, there has been (almost) no feedback on it from anyone, so not going to open that discussion now a week before the deadline.
Oh I know - and you have to have limits, and you can't make them different for each country or director. I'm just saying in an IDEAL WORLD, you should and we could. "Feature" does not and has not always meant the same thing everywhere and every time and it would be nice if we could reflect that, but it is quite understandable that we can't.
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#243

Post by beavis »

I've been adding and rearranging while the "masterlist" was being worked on and names I overlooked were added in this thread along the way. And just now I also added a new discovery of my own: Evangelia Kranioti's "Exotica, Erotica, Etc." (2015) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4517578 . This has proven an exciting exercise. Ranking is still difficult to judge (certainly below rank ~25 or so...) but I'm happy with my result so far!
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#244

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Onderhond wrote: February 1st, 2021, 8:38 pm https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/best ... onderhond/ (ranked)

Best effort, also because IMDb isn't always that reliable for Asian directors. Clearly I love debuts as 126/675 is a pretty decent percentage. These films are often made with a certain "do or die"/"this may be my only chance" mentality, which I can definitely appreciate.
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Ken Ninomiya > Your title: The Limit of Sleeping Beauty. Debut according the OP list: Slum-Polis
Elisabeth Vogler > Your title: Paris est à nous. Debut according the OP list: Blanchisserie de France
Pavel Khvaleev > Your title: III. Debut according the OP list: Random
Wuershan > Your title: Dao jiàn xiào. Debut according the OP list: Fei zao ju
Hung Hung > Your title: Chuan qiang ren. Debut according the OP list: 3 ju zhi lian
Hiroki Yamaguchi > Your title: Gusha no bindume. Debut according the OP list: Hateshinai tameiki
Matt Reeves > Your title: Cloverfield. Debut according the OP list: The Pallbearer
Shozin Fukui > Your title: 964 Pinocchio. Debut according the OP list: Metal Days
Lucile Hadzihalilovic > Your title: Innocence. Debut according the OP list: La bouche de Jean-Pierre
Jonathan Li > Your title: The Brink. Debut according the OP list: Gayby
Jamin Winans > Your title: Ink. Debut according the OP list: The Maze 
Julia Ducournau > Your title: Grave. Debut according the OP list: Mange
Prachya Pinkaew > Your title: Ong-bak. Debut according the OP list: Rawng tah laep plaep


I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Hiroshi Ishikawa - Tokyo.Sora - tt0388474
Scott Pagano - Umfeld - tt2932720
Masafumi Yamada - Tsuburo no gara - tt0459575
Cho Jinseok - Colonel Panics - tt5454492
Yoshinobu Yamakawa - Heruzu enjueruzu - tt1313120
Ilya Naishuller - Hardcore Henry - tt3072482
Fabrice du Welz - Calvaire - tt0407621
Koen Mortier - Ex Drummer - tt0812243
Xuan Liang, Chun Zhang - Dayu haitang - tt1920885
Adam Tsuei - Lou xia de fang ke - tt5735582
Hidenori Sugimori - Mizu no onna - tt0332706
Hiroyuki Yamaga - Ôritsu uchûgun Oneamisu no tsubasa - tt0093207
Juno Mak - Geung si - tt2771800
Christian Volckman - Renaissance - tt0386741
Kazuaki Kiriya - Casshern - tt0405821
Hideaki Sunaga - Kemonogare orera no saru to - tt4523400
Romain Basset - Horsehead - tt2242176
Jiajia Zhang - Bai du ren - tt3824950
Dimitri Karakatsanis - Small Gods - tt1010455
Elizabeth E. Schuch - The Book of Birdie - tt5142400
Norihiro Niwatsukino - Ninkô no junan - tt6039294
Yûji Shimomura - Death Trance - tt0443737
Ben Deka, Julien Deka - Sodium Babies - tt1545322
Yan Han - Di yi ci - tt2296692
Hakubun - Gangu shuriya - tt0810871
Yibai Zhang - Kai wang chun tian de di tie - tt0365402
Hélène Giraud, Thomas Szabo - Minuscule - La vallée des fourmis perdues - tt2368672
Kazushi Watanabe - 19 - tt0262196
Pitof - Vidocq - tt0164961
Ryô Nakajima - Oretachi no sekai - tt1418206
Yasushi Kawamura - Gantz: O - tt5923962
Miguel Urrutia - Volver a morir - tt1583251
Lazar Bodroza - A.I. Rising - tt5215088
Sam Esmail - Comet - tt2965412
Jenny Suen - The White Girl - tt7313350
Coralie Fargeat - Revenge - tt6738136
Richard Raaphorst - Frankenstein's Army - tt1925435
Zhi Li - Yi wai de lian ai shi guang - tt3209682
Wen Ren - Last Sunrise - tt8922832
Caye Casas, Albert Pintó - Matar a Dios - tt6229030
Matt Chung-tien Wu - Tian liang zhi qian - tt5843056
Hajime Tsuda - Daughters - tt11974766
Carlos Algara, Alejandro Martinez-Beltran - Veronica - tt3183402
Chu-ji Qiu - Nü yong - tt2363421
#VERW!
Yee-sum Luk - Tung baan tung hok - tt5097504
Mark Neveldine, Brian Taylor - Crank - tt0479884
Lun Su - Chun Chun Yu Dong - tt3296588
Nic Mathieu - Spectral - tt2106651
Bill Watterson - Dave Made a Maze - tt4457344
Han Han - The Continent - tt3896016
 Snow Zou - Yi sheng yi shi - tt3906444
Wisit Sasanatieng - Fah talai jone - tt0269217
Yasuo Inoue - Rinjin 13-gô - tt0443205
Katsuhito Ishii - Samehada otoko to momojiri onna - tt0169222
Ryôhei Watanabe - Kashikoi inu wa hoezuni warau - tt2813906
Mr. Hide - Donjû - tt1267381
Yayo Herrero  - The Maus - tt5586362
Heiward Mak - Lit yat dong hung - tt1365026
Mao Mao - Ci chu yu bi chu - tt2244098
Yi-chi Lien - Ming yun hua zhuang shi - tt1854552
Derek Tsang, Chi-Man Wan - Leun yan sui yu - tt1772958
Tim Mielants - De Patrick - tt7618604
Evan Goldberg, Seth Rogen - This Is the End - tt1245492
Hirotsugu Kawasaki - Spriggan - tt0164917
Noriko Takao - Seinto oniisan - tt2431934
Jonas Govaerts - Welp - tt3061836
Jim Hosking - The Greasy Strangler - tt4381236
Franck Richard - La meute - tt1336601
Tom Lin - Jiu jiang feng - tt1286562
Itsuji Itao - Itao Itsuji no datsugoku-ô - tt1519634
Sheng Kuang - Kingfisher - tt6449062
Anthony Powell - Antarctica: A Year on Ice - tt2361700
Ciarán Foy  - Citadel - tt1641975
Rintaro Mayuzumi, Kazuyoshi Okuyama - Rampo - tt0110943
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#245

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

OldAle1 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 6:29 pm OK, thanks for the reply Lonewolf. Here's my list as is, might as well get it in now given the conversation and all the extra work you guys have to do. Even if I criticize I do appreciate your efforts for sure.

Top 30 ranked, the rest chronological:

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/favo ... zzlehatch/
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Elmer Clifton > Your title: Not Wanted. Debut according the OP list: Her Official Fathers
Ida Lupino > Your title: Not Wanted. Debut according the OP list: Never Fear
Louis Malle > Your title: Ascenseur pour l'échafaud. Debut according the OP list: Le monde du silence
Chantal Akerman > Your title: Je tu il elle. Debut according the OP list: Hôtel Monterey
Julie Dash > Your title: Daughters of the Dust. Debut according the OP list: Working Models of Success
Elisabeth Vogler > Your title: Paris est à nous. Debut according the OP list: Blanchisserie de France

I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Jackie Raynal - Deux fois - tt0294525
Marva Nabili - Khake Sar Beh Mohr - tt0154728
Kenneth MacPherson - Borderline - tt0020701
Kevin Brownlow, Andrew Mollo - It Happened Here - tt0055024
Hollis Frampton - Zorns Lemma - tt0131149
Robert E. Fulton - Reality's Invisible - tt6686120
Thom Andersen, Fay Andersen, Morgan Fisher - Eadweard Muybridge, Zoopraxographer - tt0071454
Russ Hexter - Dadetown - tt0112777
Dante Harper - The Delicate Art of the Rifle - tt0126260
Jin-ho Hur - Palwolui Keuriseumaseu - tt0140825
Mark Moskowitz  - Stone Reader - tt0324080
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#246

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

beavis wrote: March 7th, 2021, 8:56 pm
I've been adding and rearranging while the "masterlist" was being worked on and names I overlooked were added in this thread along the way. And just now I also added a new discovery of my own: Evangelia Kranioti's "Exotica, Erotica, Etc." (2015) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4517578 . This has proven an exciting exercise. Ranking is still difficult to judge (certainly below rank ~25 or so...) but I'm happy with my result so far!
Thanks I added "Exotica, Erotica, Etc." (2015) to the list
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#247

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Phew... that was a lot of work. :sweat: But now I'm totally up to date again. I checked all lists posted. The iCM and IMDb list are up to date. So is the OP. Please check if your list is stated, ordered and linked correctly. And is set to public.

I count 27 list so far.
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#248

Post by Torgo »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 8:59 pm #VERW!
wat, that looks exotic even for Onderhond.
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#249

Post by peeptoad »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 2:51 pm
peeptoad wrote: February 12th, 2021, 3:55 pm unranked
I may go back and add more before the deadline, but wanted to get something down in case I don't have the time or energy. :cheers:
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Lucile Hadzihalilovic > Your title: Innocence. Debut according the OP list: La bouche de Jean-Pierre
Danny Boyle > Your title: Shallow Grave. Debut according the OP list: The Venus de Milo Instead
Carroll Ballard > Your title: The Black Stallion. Debut according the OP list: Seems Like Only Yesterday
David Greene > Your title: The Shuttered Room. Debut according the OP list: Twelfth Night 


I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Géla Babluani - 13 Tzameti - tt0475169
Hélène Cattet, Bruno Forzani - Amer - tt1426352
Gerald Kargl - Angst - tt0165623
David Weisman - Ciao Manhattan - tt0068379
Buddy Giovinazzo - Combat Shock - tt0090866
John Parker - Dementia - tt0047976
Remi Weekes - His House - tt8508734
Richard Blackburn - Lemora: A Child's Tale of the Supernatural - tt0070300
Christopher Speeth - Malatesta's Carnival of Blood - tt0215960
Bernard Hirschenson - Pick-up - tt0254688
Aharon Keshales, Navot Papushado - Kalevet - tt1754000
Guerdon Trueblood - The Candy Snatchers - tt0069840
Peter Sykes - The Committee - tt0062820
Francesco Barilli - Il profumo della signora in nero - tt0070565
Gianfranco Giagni - Il nido del ragno - tt0095728


John Parker - Dementia, I'll allow but didn't add it to the list. Cause it's listed as uncredited, and I don't count uncredited titles normally. But since it's his only film I will allow it.
No problem, Lonewolf. Go ahead and delete the ones that do not qualify. (I just deleted them) When I made the list originally I think I didn't consider docs as a feature debut, for whatever reason. It's all good though, thanks for following up.
Last edited by peeptoad on March 9th, 2021, 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#250

Post by Fergenaprido »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 9:04 pmI added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Eric Summer, Éric Warin - Ballerina - tt2261287
Antony Darnborough - So Long at the Fair - tt0042980

Not sure what to do with
Darren Lynn Bousman, Idenity Lost is earlier than Saw II and wiki call it his debut (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darren_Ly ... ilmography), but can't find any info about the movie. Even his official website doesn't mention it. I'll allow Saw II for now.
Starting a marathon session to try and catch up :D

A few of those were already in the list (all S ones).

Éric Summer: His debut is actually Valentine - Warin's debut is still Ballerina, though.
Antony Darnborough: The Astonished Heart premiered a few months before So Long at the Fair.

Darren Bousman: All I could find about Identity Lost was this videoclip:
Seems like it was probably a feature-length film, but it could have been a short as well, perhaps. I can't make out what the newscaster says about Sundance, but I can't find any Sundance-related info about the film. I'm fine with using Saw II as his debut for now.
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#251

Post by Fergenaprido »

St. Gloede wrote: March 4th, 2021, 12:32 am Noticed that Mocky's Les dragueurs / The Chasers (1959) is not on the list
joachimt wrote: March 6th, 2021, 7:47 pm Melina León
Canción sin nombre
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1824932/
Added both to the spreadsheet.
Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 2:04 pm I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
All good from this batch.
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#252

Post by Fergenaprido »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 2:51 pm
peeptoad wrote: February 12th, 2021, 3:55 pmunranked
I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
John Parker - Dementia, I'll allow but didn't add it to the list. Cause it's listed as uncredited, and I don't count uncredited titles normally. But since it's his only film I will allow it.
I'm fine with Parker being added, since he is the only director for that film.
Everything else checks out.
Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 3:13 pm
russa03 wrote: February 13th, 2021, 3:30 pmhttps://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/debuts/russa03/ ranked
I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Barbara Loden - Wanda - tt0067961
Added.
Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 3:41 pm
blocho wrote: February 13th, 2021, 11:01 pmhttps://www.imdb.com/list/ls089588162/ Unranked
I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
All good, all added.
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#253

Post by Fergenaprido »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 4:38 pm
Jimi Antiloop wrote: February 18th, 2021, 5:01 pmhttps://www.imdb.com/list/ls089015516/
I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Hiroshi Hamazaki - Gekijouban Steins;Gate: Fuka ryouiki no dejavu - tt2967286
Hiroshi Hamazaki - Iron Man: Rise of Technovore was released two weeks before Steins Gate. Also in Steins Gate he is credited as "chief director" with one other person, and a third is credited simply as "director", whatever that's supposed to me.
Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 4:57 pm
sol wrote: February 20th, 2021, 6:46 amhttps://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/dire ... buts/sol-/ RANKED
I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Eduardo Casanova - Pieles - tt5808778
Chuck Russell - A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors - tt0089175
:thumbsup:
Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 5:12 pm
perceval wrote: February 25th, 2021, 11:01 pmsomething like this: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls084882834/
I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Pat O'Neill - Water and Power - tt0098624
Pat O'Neill - there are two films called Water and Power: 1967 film & 1989 documentary. The film doesn't have a runtime - possibly it's an error or the same film? I'll agree with you that the documentary should be the debut, unless someone else says otherwise, given that most of the director's other films are shorts.
Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 5:30 pm
I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Linh Viet - Ganh xiec rong - tt0286644
Linh Viet - She has two earlier films listed on wikipedia that are not on imdb, but I cannot find any additional information, so let's stick with this one.
Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 5:45 pm
AssonFire wrote: March 1st, 2021, 3:40 amRanked: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls084820860/
I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Curzio Malaparte - Il Cristo proibito - tt0042354
James Toback - Fingers - tt0077549
Olivier Smolders - Nuit noire - tt0758442
Peter Strickland - Katalin Varga - tt1360875
:thumbsup:

Stopping here for a bit. Moved another batch to the first tab, including all of the ones mentioned above, plus others that I was working on independently. Another 250 names added.
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#254

Post by peeptoad »

This theme would make a good monthly challenge. Esp since you guys are working so hard on a master list...
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#255

Post by AssonFire »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 5:45 pm
AssonFire wrote: March 1st, 2021, 3:40 am Ranked: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls084820860/
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Philippe Garrel > Your title: Le révélateur. Debut according the OP list: Anémone
Peter B. Hutton > Your title: At Sea. Debut according the OP list: Two Rivers
Hiroshi Teshigahara > Your title: Otoshiana. Debut according the OP list: Juuninin no shashinka
François Ozon > Your title: Regarde la mer. Debut according the OP list: Jospin s'éclaire

I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Curzio Malaparte - Il Cristo proibito - tt0042354
James Toback - Fingers - tt0077549
Olivier Smolders - Nuit noire - tt0758442
Peter Strickland - Katalin Varga - tt1360875
That's fine, I'll defer to you.
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#256

Post by pitchorneirda »

Hello guys here's the top 500 from our favourite directors poll:

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls089948325/

plus the spreadsheet with all the results (it doesn't have all the IMDb IDs, I hope it's not too important for your search):

https://wetransfer.com/downloads/61a601 ... 448/c75cab
"Art is like a fire, it is born from the very thing it burns" - Jean-Luc Godard
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#257

Post by Fergenaprido »

pitchorneirda wrote: March 9th, 2021, 9:35 pm Hello guys here's the top 500 from our favourite directors poll:

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls089948325/

plus the spreadsheet with all the results (it doesn't have all the IMDb IDs, I hope it's not too important for your search):

https://wetransfer.com/downloads/61a601 ... 448/c75cab
Thanks!
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#258

Post by Fergenaprido »

beavis wrote: March 7th, 2021, 8:56 pmAnd just now I also added a new discovery of my own: Evangelia Kranioti's "Exotica, Erotica, Etc." (2015) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4517578 .
Added to the spreadsheet.
Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 8:59 pm
Onderhond wrote: February 1st, 2021, 8:38 pmhttps://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/best ... onderhond/ (ranked)
I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Chu-ji Qiu - Nü yong - tt2363421
#VERW!
Yee-sum Luk - Tung baan tung hok - tt5097504
What's the #VERW! ? Is that a director or film name, or just an error?

Everything else checks out; a lot of new names and films were added. :)
Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 9:26 pm
OldAle1 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 6:29 pmTop 30 ranked, the rest chronological: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/favo ... zzlehatch/
I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
All added.

And I'm all caught up.

Next up: working on the director poll names to see if there's anyone we missed. And my own list.
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#259

Post by Torgo »

Just gave a quick look at the master list, lots of good stuff there.
I see that Nora Twomey is listed with The Breadwinner (2017) as her debut; how does her co-directing for The Secret of Kells (2009) not count? It sounds equal in her Wiki; how is the line defined?
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#260

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Fergenaprido wrote: March 10th, 2021, 3:23 am
beavis wrote: March 7th, 2021, 8:56 pmAnd just now I also added a new discovery of my own: Evangelia Kranioti's "Exotica, Erotica, Etc." (2015) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4517578 .
Added to the spreadsheet.
Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 8:59 pm
Onderhond wrote: February 1st, 2021, 8:38 pmhttps://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/best ... onderhond/ (ranked)
I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Chu-ji Qiu - Nü yong - tt2363421
#VERW!
Yee-sum Luk - Tung baan tung hok - tt5097504
What's the #VERW! ? Is that a director or film name, or just an error?

Everything else checks out; a lot of new names and films were added. :)
Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 9:26 pm
OldAle1 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 6:29 pmTop 30 ranked, the rest chronological: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/favo ... zzlehatch/
I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
All added.

And I'm all caught up.

Next up: working on the director poll names to see if there's anyone we missed. And my own list.
The VERW is just an error
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#261

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Torgo wrote: March 10th, 2021, 3:48 am Just gave a quick look at the master list, lots of good stuff there.
I see that Nora Twomey is listed with The Breadwinner (2017) as her debut; how does her co-directing for The Secret of Kells (2009) not count? It sounds equal in her Wiki; how is the line defined?
See my response to St. Gloede.
Secret of Kells Does indeed seem eligible to me
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#262

Post by Lakigigar »

I updated my list.

From a top 20 to top 40, apparently lots of new movies were added in the IMDb list (i don't keep track of what is a directorial debut or not, and this is why I believe it's insanely hard to do such a list). But fine i'll participate, even though i haven't seen a lot of must-see directorial debuts (think like Eraserhead), but it is what it is.

I also excluded most dual-directed movies, unless i was sure it was the debut movie of both (like if they're linked with each other, like the Coens, Wachowski or Dardennes are), but I don't think there was a noteworthy case of that in my list. Also excluded a bit of animation movies, unless it has a distinctive style, but lots of animation movies are directed by multiple persons, and it's more by the hand of a studio than by the director (but I left The Red Turtle and Perfect Blue in the list, and excluded most American ones, i don't think i've seen any other animated directiorial debuts).

Also isn't Heaven Knows What a directorial debut. Now that I think of, i was thinking of a noteworthy example of a dual directed movie (and I came up with the Safdie brothers). I don't think it was in the IMDb list, but see this is why it is so hard to create such a list based if it's a directorial debut or not. Not that it matters if it's in the list or not, because I feel like it narrowly misses it.

EDIT: Another one that is missing is Blue Ruin from Jeremy Saulnier.

To be honest... i don't think this list makes much sense, because i'm not going to manually check if something is a directorial debut or not for like 400 movies. Sorry, i'm not going to do that.

So do whatever you want with my list. I've made it anyway, but there will be sure for titles that i did miss (because it's so hard to check whether something is a directorial debut or not) and i'm not sure if it makes sense to participate now (sorry). Include it if you want, don't if you don't want to.

Another one that is missing is Ava by Léa Mysius.
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#263

Post by Lakigigar »

Also don't get me wrong, respect for creating the IMDb / ICM list. That must have been hard work. But the point is if a movie isn't included in that IMDb list, it will have much less chance to appear, and I believe some of us might have created their list before consulting the updated IMDb list. It seems a bit problematic i think (unless everyone has done it manually?)
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#264

Post by Mifune »

> 500 german movie reviews - Filmsucht.org
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#265

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Lakigigar wrote: March 10th, 2021, 1:48 pm I updated my list.

From a top 20 to top 40, apparently lots of new movies were added in the IMDb list (i don't keep track of what is a directorial debut or not, and this is why I believe it's insanely hard to do such a list). But fine i'll participate, even though i haven't seen a lot of must-see directorial debuts (think like Eraserhead), but it is what it is.

I also excluded most dual-directed movies, unless i was sure it was the debut movie of both (like if they're linked with each other, like the Coens, Wachowski or Dardennes are), but I don't think there was a noteworthy case of that in my list. Also excluded a bit of animation movies, unless it has a distinctive style, but lots of animation movies are directed by multiple persons, and it's more by the hand of a studio than by the director (but I left The Red Turtle and Perfect Blue in the list, and excluded most American ones, i don't think i've seen any other animated directiorial debuts).

Also isn't Heaven Knows What a directorial debut. Now that I think of, i was thinking of a noteworthy example of a dual directed movie (and I came up with the Safdie brothers). I don't think it was in the IMDb list, but see this is why it is so hard to create such a list based if it's a directorial debut or not. Not that it matters if it's in the list or not, because I feel like it narrowly misses it.
The Pleasure of Being Robbed (2008) is Josh Safdie's debut. Go Get Some Rosemary (2009) is the first they directed together, so Benny's debut.
EDIT: Another one that is missing is Blue Ruin from Jeremy Saulnier.
Murder Party is Saulnier's debut. It should been on the list. Added it.
To be honest... i don't think this list makes much sense, because i'm not going to manually check if something is a directorial debut or not for like 400 movies. Sorry, i'm not going to do that.

So do whatever you want with my list. I've made it anyway, but there will be sure for titles that i did miss (because it's so hard to check whether something is a directorial debut or not) and i'm not sure if it makes sense to participate now (sorry). Include it if you want, don't if you don't want to.

Another one that is missing is Ava by Léa Mysius.
Thanks added Ava to the list
Lakigigar wrote: March 10th, 2021, 2:06 pm Also don't get me wrong, respect for creating the IMDb / ICM list. That must have been hard work. But the point is if a movie isn't included in that IMDb list, it will have much less chance to appear, and I believe some of us might have created their list before consulting the updated IMDb list. It seems a bit problematic i think (unless everyone has done it manually?)
I get it's a lot of work to make a list for this poll, much more than most others. Therefor we actually made the list as a help so people don't have to check every movie themselves. Unfortunately we weren't able to finish the list before this poll started, that why it's have been updated regularly since than. Unfortunate we also haven't been able to check every single director there ever has been. People who posted their list before, of course also can still adjust their list according to it. If you don't want to double check all your movies, that's understandable. That's why I also check them for eligibility. If you don't want to participate that of course your own call too.

There is indeed a change that films not on the list have slighter change of making the cut, cause people use to the list to make their list. That's why we try to have it as complete as possible. That's also why I use ballots to add movies to the list, so movies already voted for have a higher change of gathering more votes.
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#266

Post by Lakigigar »

Okay, i think we just have to accept that there's no better way, i believe.

Thanks for all the hard work.
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#267

Post by Ritesh »

Kogonada ..director of Columbus (2017) is missing from the list.
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#268

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Added a lot more titles from the spreadsheet that should been on the list already, but were missing somehow.
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#269

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Ritesh wrote: March 10th, 2021, 5:29 pm Kogonada ..director of Columbus (2017) is missing from the list.
Lunch Line is in the list as his debut, he's listed as E. Joong-Eun Park
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#270

Post by Torgo »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 10th, 2021, 11:52 am
Torgo wrote: March 10th, 2021, 3:48 am Just gave a quick look at the master list, lots of good stuff there.
I see that Nora Twomey is listed with The Breadwinner (2017) as her debut; how does her co-directing for The Secret of Kells (2009) not count? It sounds equal in her Wiki; how is the line defined?
See my response to St. Gloede.
Secret of Kells Does indeed seem eligible to me
Well it essentially robs us of one title, since Kells would be both the debut of Tomm Moore and Nora Twomey. When you look around the internet, both parties here seem to be involved enough for a remarkable credit.
I didn't want to kill The Breadwinner (2017) and effectively a woman from our master list, sorry. :ph43r: Just trying to grasp the rules ..
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#271

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Torgo wrote: March 10th, 2021, 6:33 pm
Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 10th, 2021, 11:52 am
Torgo wrote: March 10th, 2021, 3:48 am Just gave a quick look at the master list, lots of good stuff there.
I see that Nora Twomey is listed with The Breadwinner (2017) as her debut; how does her co-directing for The Secret of Kells (2009) not count? It sounds equal in her Wiki; how is the line defined?
See my response to St. Gloede.
Secret of Kells Does indeed seem eligible to me
Well it essentially robs us of one title, since Kells would be both the debut of Tomm Moore and Nora Twomey. When you look around the internet, both parties here seem to be involved enough for a remarkable credit.
I didn't want to kill The Breadwinner (2017) and effectively a woman from our master list, sorry. :ph43r: Just trying to grasp the rules ..
I understand. The rules hard to grasp for co-directors, cause IMDb as in many things isn't always constant and correct in applying these, I think. It can't be said that anyone listed as co-directors on IMDb doesn't deserve enough credit for the film to make the list. So it has to be decided case by case.

So if Moore and Twomey were equal partners than to me that makes Kells both there debut. Although that does indeed mean one solo women less on the list, and also losing The Breadwinner (2017).
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#272

Post by Fergenaprido »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 10th, 2021, 6:42 pm
Torgo wrote: March 10th, 2021, 6:33 pm
Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 10th, 2021, 11:52 am
See my response to St. Gloede.
Secret of Kells Does indeed seem eligible to me
Well it essentially robs us of one title, since Kells would be both the debut of Tomm Moore and Nora Twomey. When you look around the internet, both parties here seem to be involved enough for a remarkable credit.
I didn't want to kill The Breadwinner (2017) and effectively a woman from our master list, sorry. :ph43r: Just trying to grasp the rules ..
I understand. The rules hard to grasp for co-directors, cause IMDb as in many things isn't always constant and correct in applying these, I think. It can't be said that anyone listed as co-directors on IMDb doesn't deserve enough credit for the film to make the list. So it has to be decided case by case.

So if Moore and Twomey were equal partners than to me that makes Kells both there debut. Although that does indeed mean one solo women less on the list, and also losing The Breadwinner (2017).
My general take on co-directors is that if one person is "director" and another is "co-director", then there must be some distinction between their jobs, otherwise why not credit both as "director". I have seen some films with two directors and both are credited as "co-director", but I don't know if that's the original credit or the decision of whoever updated the credits on imdb.

In the case of Cartoon Saloon, I have copies of Moore's Irish trilogy, so I checked their on screen credits. I don't have The Breadwinner.

The Secret of Kells - there are separate opening credits for Moore and Twomey. First Twomey is listed as the co-director, and then Moore is listed as the director. I don't know what the distinction is between their roles, but it's enough for me to consider this solely Moore's directorial debut.
Screenshots
Image
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Wolfwalkers, in contrast, lists both Moore and Stewart as directors. Whether Stewart's role is comparable to Twomey's role, and the studio's definition changed over time I don't know.
Screenshot
Image
Thus, to me, I would still consider The Breadwinner as Twomey's debut for this poll.

Another area of confusion I've come across is in some animation films: One or more people are listed as "director" on imdb, and then someone else is listed as "supervising director", whatever that means. And this is only visible on the full cast and crew page (unlike the co-director credit, which usually shows up on the main page). I don't know how this works (I've seen it mostly in older American animation and some anime). Are the "directors" only in charge of some segments of the film, and the "supervising director" is the person that we would consider the director? Or are the "directors" in charge of the film and the "supervising director" is just someone who comes in and checks on them once in a while. I've tried to be consistent when I've run into these cases, but there may have been ones that I've missed.
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#273

Post by Torgo »

Fergenaprido wrote: March 10th, 2021, 8:36 pm The Secret of Kells - there are separate opening credits for Moore and Twomey. First Twomey is listed as the co-director, and then Moore is listed as the director. I don't know what the distinction is between their roles, but it's enough for me to consider this solely Moore's directorial debut.
Screenshots
Image
Image
Thus, to me, I would still consider The Breadwinner as Twomey's debut for this poll.
:cowbow: Sherlock Ferge on the case. Very convincing work - more than the first 30 random Google results which lead to conflicting results for me.
And it saves us the Bread film as a debut. Perfect!

Lakigigar wrote: March 10th, 2021, 1:48 pm To be honest... i don't think this list makes much sense, because i'm not going to manually check if something is a directorial debut or not for like 400 movies. Sorry, i'm not going to do that.

So do whatever you want with my list. I've made it anyway, but there will be sure for titles that i did miss (because it's so hard to check whether something is a directorial debut or not) and i'm not sure if it makes sense to participate now (sorry).
Don't lose heart, Laki. This shouldn't be an exercise of 100% faultless precision, and it will happen that people forget a 7,5/10 noteworthy debut in their lists. If you want to set up such a list from scratch, start at the very very top, so look at your 10/10s: Is that a debut? Spreadsheety cinephiles like us will recognize many, many films at first sight to not be debuts: Neither Vertigo nor Psycho were Hitchcock's first films, you just know that off the top of your head. 2001 by Kubrick? Nope. À bout de souffle by Godard? Definitely very early and founding for the French New Wave, so maybe -> checks notes -> yup. Transformers 2 by renonwed auteur Bay? Nah, he excelled before. Mulholland Drive by David Lynch, definitely deep in his filmography. And so on .. for famous directors, it might go relatively fast. Then just do the rest. Progress to all 9/10s and do 8/10s until you're tired of it.

I for one will be brutally frank: I'm too lazy to go through my completely messed up IMDb vote history and check all that, as I don't do any clean listwork. And IMDb has gotten worse with each of their updates, so ..
I'm parasiting the shit out of the masterlist, now where it is so progressed. If some of my 8/10s fall through, so be it. We'll have an even more solid foundation for the repeated poll in 2024 or so and might just need to fill up the last gaps. Thanks to the work of Ferge & Lone! :party:
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#274

Post by Fergenaprido »

All right. I think I'm done with this.

I just finished going through the films that might make my list, plus the results of the directors poll. I've added in every director in the Top 550 (except those that only have short films).

Added a final 250 directors to the spreadsheet for you Lonewolf.

I won't be doing any more proactive searching/adding of directors, but if people submit their lists with new films and Lonewolf posts about them, I'll add those too.

There are about 4700 directors listed in the spreadsheet now.

Oh, and Lonewolf, you still have the wrong Disappearance of Eleanor Rigby film in the icm list. You have Him & Them, but it should be Him & Her, since Them came out a year later.

Now to watch a few last films and submit my own list. :)
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#275

Post by gromit82 »

I'm ready to post my ballot now. It's ranked:

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls089853153/

There were other films I had under consideration, but I didn't feel as enthusiastic about including them. If anyone notices any non-debuts on my list or situations where you think I may have listed the wrong film with the same title, please feel free to send me a PM.
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#276

Post by Jimi Antiloop »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 4:38 pm
Jimi Antiloop wrote: February 18th, 2021, 5:01 pm This list idea is great!
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls089015516/
Will add some more later.
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Ferdinand Khittl > Your title: Die Parallelstrasse. Debut according the OP list: Werkstatt für Europa - Feuer an der Ruhr
Gert de Graaff > Your title: De zee die denkt. Debut according the OP list: Twee
Frauke Finsterwalder > Your title: Finsterworld. Debut according the OP list: Weil der Mensch ein Mensch ist
José Padilha > Your title: Tropa de Elite. Debut according the OP list: Ônibus 174
Claudia Lehmann > Your title: Schilf. Debut according the OP list: Hans im Glück
Cordula Kablitz-Post > Your title: Lou Andreas-Salomé, The Audacity to be Free. Debut according the OP list: Mein Leben - Helmut Berger
Omer Fast > Your title: Remainder. Debut according the OP list: Nostalgia
Ferdinand Khittl - For some reasons I was thinking "first feature film" excludes documentaries and means first fictional films.
For my taste directing a documentary and doing a fictional film is two pair of shoes.
Beside. Both documentaries have exactly zero rating on imdb and I wonder if you could say, they were widly pupblicly released


Gert de Graaff
- Twee is his excamination documentary somewhat movie, widly released?
Then there is another 59' documentary without any votes on imdb

Frauke Finsterwalder - Same that documentaries doesn't feel as a first fictional feature
José Padilha - same
Claudia Lehmann - same
Cordula Kablitz-Post - same
Omer Fast - two short documentaries with 17 and 0 ratings before.


Just an argument for me was, that also the term "feature film" is tanslated in german into "Spielfilm" which means, a film were they play/act. That also excludes documentaries.

wiki: while the Screen Actors Guild asserts that a feature's running time is 75 minutes or longer.
:ICM: :letbxd: :Crtiticker: Reality Checks on :imdb:

“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.”― Philip K. Dick
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#277

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Jimi Antiloop wrote: March 11th, 2021, 1:22 pm
Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 4:38 pm
Jimi Antiloop wrote: February 18th, 2021, 5:01 pm This list idea is great!
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls089015516/
Will add some more later.
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Ferdinand Khittl > Your title: Die Parallelstrasse. Debut according the OP list: Werkstatt für Europa - Feuer an der Ruhr
Gert de Graaff > Your title: De zee die denkt. Debut according the OP list: Twee
Frauke Finsterwalder > Your title: Finsterworld. Debut according the OP list: Weil der Mensch ein Mensch ist
José Padilha > Your title: Tropa de Elite. Debut according the OP list: Ônibus 174
Claudia Lehmann > Your title: Schilf. Debut according the OP list: Hans im Glück
Cordula Kablitz-Post > Your title: Lou Andreas-Salomé, The Audacity to be Free. Debut according the OP list: Mein Leben - Helmut Berger
Omer Fast > Your title: Remainder. Debut according the OP list: Nostalgia
Ferdinand Khittl - For some reasons I was thinking "first feature film" excludes documentaries and means first fictional films.
For my taste directing a documentary and doing a fictional film is two pair of shoes.
Beside. Both documentaries have exactly zero rating on imdb and I wonder if you could say, they were widly pupblicly released


Gert de Graaff
- Twee is his excamination documentary somewhat movie, widly released?
Then there is another 59' documentary without any votes on imdb

Frauke Finsterwalder - Same that documentaries doesn't feel as a first fictional feature
José Padilha - same
Claudia Lehmann - same
Cordula Kablitz-Post - same
Omer Fast - two short documentaries with 17 and 0 ratings before.


Just an argument for me was, that also the term "feature film" is tanslated in german into "Spielfilm" which means, a film were they play/act. That also excludes documentaries.

wiki: while the Screen Actors Guild asserts that a feature's running time is 75 minutes or longer.
I can understand that you feel that fictional features and docus are different breeds and therefor docu's shouldn't count as debut feature. But that's not how we defined directorial debut features. There has been ample time to discuss this definition and deliver input, but sorry I'm not going to open that disscusion a day before the deadline.

For Gert de Graaff, you might have a point, if his excamination documentary can be considered widly released. Will have to look into that more.
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#279

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Fergenaprido wrote: March 11th, 2021, 4:09 am All right. I think I'm done with this.

I just finished going through the films that might make my list, plus the results of the directors poll. I've added in every director in the Top 550 (except those that only have short films).

Added a final 250 directors to the spreadsheet for you Lonewolf.

I won't be doing any more proactive searching/adding of directors, but if people submit their lists with new films and Lonewolf posts about them, I'll add those too.

There are about 4700 directors listed in the spreadsheet now.

Oh, and Lonewolf, you still have the wrong Disappearance of Eleanor Rigby film in the icm list. You have Him & Them, but it should be Him & Her, since Them came out a year later.

Now to watch a few last films and submit my own list. :)
Thanks, added all the new addition on the spreadsheet to the list. Also replaced the Disappearance of Eleanor Rigby films with the correct ones.
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#280

Post by Torgo »

Say .. will this deadline be over tonight or am I correctly suspecting that the poll is extended until Sunday evening? :ph43r:
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