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iCM Forum's Favourite Directorial Debut Features; Nominations

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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#201

Post by joachimt »

The spreadsheet says Ivan. :shrug:
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#202

Post by Fergenaprido »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 5:25 pm @FERGE I added b]Joniko and the Kush Ta Ka [/b] to the list
Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 5:46 pm I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Michael Arias - Tekkon kinkurîto - tt0831888
George Hickenlooper, Fax Bahr, Eleanor Coppola - Hearts of Darkness: A Filmmaker's Apocalypse - tt0102015
Bob Gale - Interstate 60: Episodes of the Road - tt0165832
Preston Sturges - The Great McGinty - tt0032554
Noted. Sturges was already in the spreadsheet though.
joachimt wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 7:40 pm The spreadsheet says Ivan. :shrug:
Yeah, that's my bad. I forgot to update the spreadsheet after the earlier conversation. Updated now.
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#203

Post by joachimt »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: February 1st, 2021, 12:50 pm joachimt (unranked46)
Because I removed Ivan, this list is now:
1-45 ranked
rest unranked
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#204

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

zzzorf wrote: February 11th, 2021, 9:03 pm https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/my+t ... ts/zzzorf/ (ranked)

Thought I would get it up now even though it isn't fully complete. It is nearly at my capped 250 movies (what I'm guessing the size of the main list will be and I try to cap all my lists at the ending size) but I am still progressing through my Flickchart. Everything is in order but only to 125 is complete. Stuff will drop of the end as I check other movies as I come up to them and add them into the list in it's spot. The IMDb list and the spreadsheet have been of great benefit while progressing through this development process.
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Hugh Wilson > Your title: Police Academy. Debut according the OP list: The Bagel Report
James Wan > Your title: Saw. Debut according the OP list: Stygian
Naoko Yamada > Your title: Koe no katachi. Debut according the OP list: Eiga Keion!
Kate Woods > Your title: Looking for Alibrandi. Debut according the OP list: The Feds: Deadfall
Irvin S. Yeaworth Jr., > Your title: The Blob. Debut according the OP list: The Flaming Teenage
Louise Wadley > Your title: All About E. Debut according the OP list: To Russia with Love
Andrzej Sekula > Your title: Cube 2: Hypercube. Debut according the OP list: Fait Accompli
Rupert Julian > Your title: The Phantom of the Opera. Debut according the OP list: Naked Hearts
Garth Davis > Your title: Lion. Debut according the OP list: P.I.N.S.
Chia-Liang Liu > Your title: Shao Lin san shi liu fang. Debut according the OP list: Zui jia bo sha
Thierry Ragobert > Your title: Amazonia. Debut according the OP list: La planète blanche
Ron Maxwell > Your title: Little Darlings. Debut according the OP list: Sea Marks 
Julie Anne Robinson > Your title: The Last Song. Debut according the OP list: Coming Down the Mountain
Jim Drake > Your title: Police Academy 4: Citizens on Patrol. Debut according the OP list: This Wife for Hire
David Silverman > Your title: The Simpsons Movie. Debut according the OP list: Monsters, Inc.
Steven R. Monroe > Your title: House of 9. Debut according the OP list: The Contract
Stuart Gordon > Your title: Re-Animator. Debut according the OP list: Bleacher Bums
Louis Leterrier > Your title: Transporter 2. Debut according the OP list: The Transporter
Prachya Pinkaew > Your title: Ong-bak. Debut according the OP list: Rawng tah laep plaep
Colin Trevorrow > Your title: Safety Not Guaranteed. Debut according the OP list: Reality Show

I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Hironobu Sakaguchi - Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within - tt0173840
Stuart Beattie - Tomorrow, When the War Began - tt1456941
Paul Fenech - Somewhere in the Darkness - tt0183799
David F. Sandberg - Lights Out - tt4786282
Ralph Smart - Bush Christmas - tt0039231
Courtney Solomon - Dungeons & Dragons - tt0190374
Justin Copeland - Batman: Hush - tt8752440
Tim Hill - Muppets from Space - tt0158811
Eric Summer, Éric Warin - Ballerina - tt2261287
Richard Greenberg - Little Monsters - tt0097758
Todd Holland - The Wizard - tt0098663
Cate Shortland - Somersault - tt0381429
Brad Silberling - Casper - tt0112642
Mic Rodgers - Universal Soldier: The Return - tt0176269
Srdjan Spasojevic - Srpski film - tt1273235
Junpei Mizusaki - Batman Ninja - tt7451284
Antony Darnborough - So Long at the Fair - tt0042980
Ernie Barbarash - Cube Zero - tt0377713
Mirrah Foulkes  - Judy & Punch - tt7798644
Troy Nixey - Don't Be Afraid of the Dark - tt1270761
Roy T. Wood - Disaster! - tt0424958
Yuefeng Song - Dragon Nest: Warriors' Dawn - tt2911342
Larry Blamire - The Lost Skeleton of Cadavra - tt0307109
Michael Gottlieb - Mannequin - tt0093493
Murray Ball - Footrot Flats: The Dog's Tale - tt0131400
Stephen Chiodo - Killer Klowns from Outer Space - tt0095444
Barry Sonnenfeld - The Addams Family - tt0101272
John Bonito - The Marine - tt0419946
Mark DiSalle - Kickboxer - tt0097659
Gary Goddard - Masters of the Universe - tt0093507
Roy Allen Smith - The Land Before Time II: The Great Valley Adventure - tt0110300
David Hackl - Saw V - tt1132626
Mimmo Cattarinich - Piccole labbra - tt0077682
Leanne Welham - Pili - tt5827020
Alexandre Espigares - Croc-Blanc - tt5222768
Clay Glen - A Second Chance - tt2150139
Len Talan - Hansel and Gretel - tt0093144
Richard Curtis - Love Actually - tt0314331
Masanori Hata - Koneko monogatari - tt0097050
Jason Moore - Pitch Perfect - tt1981677
Patrick Tatopoulos - Underworld: Rise of the Lycans - tt0834001
John R. Leonetti - Mortal Kombat: Annihilation - tt0119707
Yahoo Serious - Young Einstein - tt0096486
Jeremiah S. Chechik  - National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation - tt0097958
Peter Cornwell - The Haunting in Connecticut - tt0492044
Peter Winther - The Librarian: Quest for the Spear - tt0412915
Cory Edwards - Hoodwinked! - tt0443536
Klay Hall - Tinker Bell and the Lost Treasure - tt1216516
Chris Shadley - Nine Dead - tt0959329
Adam MacDonald - Backcountry - tt2944198
Zack Snyder - Dawn of the Dead - tt0363547
Alexandre Bustillo, Julien Maury - À l'intérieur - tt0856288


Not sure what to do with
Darren Lynn Bousman, Idenity Lost is earlier than Saw II and wiki call it his debut (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darren_Ly ... ilmography), but can't find any info about the movie. Even his official website doesn't mention it. I'll allow Saw II for now.
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#205

Post by St. Gloede »

This was probably answered already, but just for clarity - feature film debuts, in the classical sense (i.e. theatrical release) is disqualified if there was a student film or (unknown) TV movie first, correct? As are solo debuts if they previously made a film as a co-director?

(As an example - I see that Citizen Kane is on the list, despite the fact that Welles did Too Much Johnson first. Is this because Too Much Johnson was barely shown/more of an experimental effort not existing in the form it does today?)
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#206

Post by St. Gloede »

Noticed that Mocky's Les dragueurs / The Chasers (1959) is not on the list (only realized as I was adding Jakten / The Chasers (1959) ) :D

*Is the list updated by the ballots?
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#207

Post by frbrown »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 7:12 pm
frbrown wrote: February 12th, 2021, 1:08 am My list

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls089587405/


Currently unranked. The first 39 are taken from the iCM list in OP, so I assume they're OK. After 39 are my own additions, so those need to be verified.
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Garth Davis > Your title: Lion. Debut according the OP list: P.I.N.S.
:huh:

I didn't vote for "Lion", or anything else by Garth Davis :think:
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#208

Post by zzzorf »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 9:04 pm
zzzorf wrote: February 11th, 2021, 9:03 pm https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/my+t ... ts/zzzorf/ (ranked)

Thought I would get it up now even though it isn't fully complete. It is nearly at my capped 250 movies (what I'm guessing the size of the main list will be and I try to cap all my lists at the ending size) but I am still progressing through my Flickchart. Everything is in order but only to 125 is complete. Stuff will drop of the end as I check other movies as I come up to them and add them into the list in it's spot. The IMDb list and the spreadsheet have been of great benefit while progressing through this development process.
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Hugh Wilson > Your title: Police Academy. Debut according the OP list: The Bagel Report
James Wan > Your title: Saw. Debut according the OP list: Stygian
Naoko Yamada > Your title: Koe no katachi. Debut according the OP list: Eiga Keion!
Kate Woods > Your title: Looking for Alibrandi. Debut according the OP list: The Feds: Deadfall
Irvin S. Yeaworth Jr., > Your title: The Blob. Debut according the OP list: The Flaming Teenage
Louise Wadley > Your title: All About E. Debut according the OP list: To Russia with Love
Andrzej Sekula > Your title: Cube 2: Hypercube. Debut according the OP list: Fait Accompli
Rupert Julian > Your title: The Phantom of the Opera. Debut according the OP list: Naked Hearts
Garth Davis > Your title: Lion. Debut according the OP list: P.I.N.S.
Chia-Liang Liu > Your title: Shao Lin san shi liu fang. Debut according the OP list: Zui jia bo sha
Thierry Ragobert > Your title: Amazonia. Debut according the OP list: La planète blanche
Ron Maxwell > Your title: Little Darlings. Debut according the OP list: Sea Marks 
Julie Anne Robinson > Your title: The Last Song. Debut according the OP list: Coming Down the Mountain
Jim Drake > Your title: Police Academy 4: Citizens on Patrol. Debut according the OP list: This Wife for Hire
David Silverman > Your title: The Simpsons Movie. Debut according the OP list: Monsters, Inc.
Steven R. Monroe > Your title: House of 9. Debut according the OP list: The Contract
Stuart Gordon > Your title: Re-Animator. Debut according the OP list: Bleacher Bums
Louis Leterrier > Your title: Transporter 2. Debut according the OP list: The Transporter
Prachya Pinkaew > Your title: Ong-bak. Debut according the OP list: Rawng tah laep plaep
Colin Trevorrow > Your title: Safety Not Guaranteed. Debut according the OP list: Reality Show

I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Hironobu Sakaguchi - Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within - tt0173840
Stuart Beattie - Tomorrow, When the War Began - tt1456941
Paul Fenech - Somewhere in the Darkness - tt0183799
David F. Sandberg - Lights Out - tt4786282
Ralph Smart - Bush Christmas - tt0039231
Courtney Solomon - Dungeons & Dragons - tt0190374
Justin Copeland - Batman: Hush - tt8752440
Tim Hill - Muppets from Space - tt0158811
Eric Summer, Éric Warin - Ballerina - tt2261287
Richard Greenberg - Little Monsters - tt0097758
Todd Holland - The Wizard - tt0098663
Cate Shortland - Somersault - tt0381429
Brad Silberling - Casper - tt0112642
Mic Rodgers - Universal Soldier: The Return - tt0176269
Srdjan Spasojevic - Srpski film - tt1273235
Junpei Mizusaki - Batman Ninja - tt7451284
Antony Darnborough - So Long at the Fair - tt0042980
Ernie Barbarash - Cube Zero - tt0377713
Mirrah Foulkes  - Judy & Punch - tt7798644
Troy Nixey - Don't Be Afraid of the Dark - tt1270761
Roy T. Wood - Disaster! - tt0424958
Yuefeng Song - Dragon Nest: Warriors' Dawn - tt2911342
Larry Blamire - The Lost Skeleton of Cadavra - tt0307109
Michael Gottlieb - Mannequin - tt0093493
Murray Ball - Footrot Flats: The Dog's Tale - tt0131400
Stephen Chiodo - Killer Klowns from Outer Space - tt0095444
Barry Sonnenfeld - The Addams Family - tt0101272
John Bonito - The Marine - tt0419946
Mark DiSalle - Kickboxer - tt0097659
Gary Goddard - Masters of the Universe - tt0093507
Roy Allen Smith - The Land Before Time II: The Great Valley Adventure - tt0110300
David Hackl - Saw V - tt1132626
Mimmo Cattarinich - Piccole labbra - tt0077682
Leanne Welham - Pili - tt5827020
Alexandre Espigares - Croc-Blanc - tt5222768
Clay Glen - A Second Chance - tt2150139
Len Talan - Hansel and Gretel - tt0093144
Richard Curtis - Love Actually - tt0314331
Masanori Hata - Koneko monogatari - tt0097050
Jason Moore - Pitch Perfect - tt1981677
Patrick Tatopoulos - Underworld: Rise of the Lycans - tt0834001
John R. Leonetti - Mortal Kombat: Annihilation - tt0119707
Yahoo Serious - Young Einstein - tt0096486
Jeremiah S. Chechik  - National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation - tt0097958
Peter Cornwell - The Haunting in Connecticut - tt0492044
Peter Winther - The Librarian: Quest for the Spear - tt0412915
Cory Edwards - Hoodwinked! - tt0443536
Klay Hall - Tinker Bell and the Lost Treasure - tt1216516
Chris Shadley - Nine Dead - tt0959329
Adam MacDonald - Backcountry - tt2944198
Zack Snyder - Dawn of the Dead - tt0363547
Alexandre Bustillo, Julien Maury - À l'intérieur - tt0856288


Not sure what to do with
Darren Lynn Bousman, Idenity Lost is earlier than Saw II and wiki call it his debut (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darren_Ly ... ilmography), but can't find any info about the movie. Even his official website doesn't mention it. I'll allow Saw II for now.

Sorry about that, I got a little lax double checking things if they appeared in the second section of the spreadsheet. I have taken them all out and added the extras from my spreadsheet into the open spots at the bottom of the list. I still have a little bit of work to do the bottom 100 of the list and hope to have it done by the deadline.
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#209

Post by Gordon_Gekko »

Have to work on the ranking, but that's the 200 films I take.

Top 100 Ranked, rest unranked:
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls089709135/
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#210

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

St. Gloede wrote: March 4th, 2021, 12:18 am This was probably answered already, but just for clarity - feature film debuts, in the classical sense (i.e. theatrical release) is disqualified if there was a student film or (unknown) TV movie first, correct? As are solo debuts if they previously made a film as a co-director?

(As an example - I see that Citizen Kane is on the list, despite the fact that Welles did Too Much Johnson first. Is this because Too Much Johnson was barely shown/more of an experimental effort not existing in the form it does today?)
Sorry for the bit late reply.
A directorial debut feature is defined (for this poll) as the first film of at least 40 minutes directed by a director that was publicly released. Since a tv-movie by definition is publicly released, indeed a tv-movie is counted when it was made before a director's first cinematic release. For a student film it is only counted as the debut when it was made to and released publicly and not just made to be seen by the director's friends, grandma and teacher. Tarkovsky's graduation film The Steamroller and the Violin f.e. was made at Mosfilm, so with the clear intention for it to be released publicly. (That is originally, if a director's graduation film was dug up after he became the next big thing and added as bonus feature on a bluray it doesn't count.)

For co-directors it's complicated. There is a difference between the labeling as co-director and both (or multiple) directors being labeled as director on IMDb. Ferge's opinion is that co-directors shouldn't be counted as debuts, but if both are listed as directors it should. Since I made the eligibility lists (for a large part) on his amazing research into thousand of films, I de facto also went with that. But I'm less strict than him on this stance. So also decide it on case by case basis. It depends on how big the role and influence the debutant had as (co-)director on said movie. So if you feel a specific co-directed should or shouldn't be eligible, you're more than welcome to speak up. Ferge and I aren't walking film encyclopedias. (At least I'm not, maybe Ferge secretly is). For Pixar it was f.e. decided co-directors don't count as debut, because of their definition of the role. Contrary f.e. for Malle it was decided that his contribution to The Silent World, co-directed with Jacques Cousteau, was big enough for it to count as his debut.

Too Much Johnson was ruled out because firstly it was part of a stage production so not a real movie in my book, secondly it wasn't completely edited or publicly screened.
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#211

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

St. Gloede wrote: March 4th, 2021, 12:32 am Noticed that Mocky's Les dragueurs / The Chasers (1959) is not on the list (only realized as I was adding Jakten / The Chasers (1959) ) :D

*Is the list updated by the ballots?
The list is primarly updated by Ferge updates for his spreadsheet. But also by ballots (haven't gotten around to processing al yet unfortunately) and other sources, f.e. from the RtD challenge
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#212

Post by St. Gloede »

Thanks, very clear.
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#213

Post by joachimt »

Melina León
Canción sin nombre
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1824932/

Just watch it and added it to my list.
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#214

Post by AB537 »

My list: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/ab53 ... lms/ab537/

Ranked 1-42, remainder unranked

All titles are derived from the OP list as it was a couple of weeks ago, please let me know if there are any discrepancies. Thanks to all who contributed to building the list, it saved me an enormous amount of time!
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#215

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

frbrown wrote: March 4th, 2021, 2:07 am
Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 7:12 pm
frbrown wrote: February 12th, 2021, 1:08 am My list

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls089587405/


Currently unranked. The first 39 are taken from the iCM list in OP, so I assume they're OK. After 39 are my own additions, so those need to be verified.
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Garth Davis > Your title: Lion. Debut according the OP list: P.I.N.S.
:huh:

I didn't vote for "Lion", or anything else by Garth Davis :think:
Sorry, that was meant for Mysterious Dude. Quoted your post by mistake.
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#216

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Mysterious Dude wrote: February 8th, 2021, 3:56 pm https://www.imdb.com/list/ls089557550/ (all ranked)
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Garth Davis > Your title: Lion. Debut according the OP list: P.I.N.S.
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#217

Post by OldAle1 »

So, trying to get mine sorted out and maybe posted in the next day or two, just want to get this straight - The Tarkovsky debut is going to be considered the one about the boy and the big rolling thing, and not the one about the boy who goes to war?

Also just saw a film last night that's going onto my list, didn't really expect that to happen while in the midst of this (didn't know it was a directorial debut for one thing).
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#218

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

frbrown wrote: March 4th, 2021, 2:07 am
Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 7:12 pm
frbrown wrote: February 12th, 2021, 1:08 am My list

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls089587405/


Currently unranked. The first 39 are taken from the iCM list in OP, so I assume they're OK. After 39 are my own additions, so those need to be verified.
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Garth Davis > Your title: Lion. Debut according the OP list: P.I.N.S.
:huh:

I didn't vote for "Lion", or anything else by Garth Davis :think:
This is the analysis of your list.

I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Robert Montgomery - Lady in the Lake - tt0039545
Lewis Allen - The Uninvited - tt0037415
Piotr Kamler - Chronopolis - tt0262333
Charles David - Lady on a Train - tt0037859
Craig Baldwin - Tribulation 99: Alien Anomalies Under America - tt0105639
Sôji Yoshikawa, Yasuo Ôtsuka - Rupan sansei - tt0078187
Warren Sonbert - Carriage Trade - tt0377595
Roy Ward Baker - The October Man - tt0039676
Roman Davydov - Maugli - tt0217590
Osamu Dezaki - Ace wo Nerae! - tt7523106
James Edward Grant - Angel and the Badman - tt0039152
Nobuo Tomizawa - Rupan sansei: Kutabare! Nostradamus - tt0170181
Richard Tuggle - Tightrope - tt0088272
Boris Ingster - Stranger on the Third Floor - tt0033107
Alan Cohn - Dead Man on Campus - tt0118301
Herk Harvey - Carnival of Souls - tt0055830
Hiroyuki Imaishi - Deddo ribusu - tt0439533
Kazuhiro Furuhashi - Battle Fighters Garou Densetsu 2 - tt0220454
Ichirô Itano - Megazone 23 Part II - tt0160522
Toshio Hirata - Unico - tt0083258
Masami Hata - Chirin no suzu - tt0306646
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#219

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

OldAle1 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 1:20 pm So, trying to get mine sorted out and maybe posted in the next day or two, just want to get this straight - The Tarkovsky debut is going to be considered the one about the boy and the big rolling thing, and not the one about the boy who goes to war?

Also just saw a film last night that's going onto my list, didn't really expect that to happen while in the midst of this (didn't know it was a directorial debut for one thing).
Yes, to your question about the Russian director
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#220

Post by Torgo »

OldAle1 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 1:20 pm The Tarkovsky debut is going to be considered the one about the boy and the big rolling thing
:D
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#221

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

peeptoad wrote: February 12th, 2021, 3:55 pm unranked
I may go back and add more before the deadline, but wanted to get something down in case I don't have the time or energy. :cheers:
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Lucile Hadzihalilovic > Your title: Innocence. Debut according the OP list: La bouche de Jean-Pierre
Danny Boyle > Your title: Shallow Grave. Debut according the OP list: The Venus de Milo Instead
Carroll Ballard > Your title: The Black Stallion. Debut according the OP list: Seems Like Only Yesterday
David Greene > Your title: The Shuttered Room. Debut according the OP list: Twelfth Night 


I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Géla Babluani - 13 Tzameti - tt0475169
Hélène Cattet, Bruno Forzani - Amer - tt1426352
Gerald Kargl - Angst - tt0165623
David Weisman - Ciao Manhattan - tt0068379
Buddy Giovinazzo - Combat Shock - tt0090866
John Parker - Dementia - tt0047976
Remi Weekes - His House - tt8508734
Richard Blackburn - Lemora: A Child's Tale of the Supernatural - tt0070300
Christopher Speeth - Malatesta's Carnival of Blood - tt0215960
Bernard Hirschenson - Pick-up - tt0254688
Aharon Keshales, Navot Papushado - Kalevet - tt1754000
Guerdon Trueblood - The Candy Snatchers - tt0069840
Peter Sykes - The Committee - tt0062820
Francesco Barilli - Il profumo della signora in nero - tt0070565
Gianfranco Giagni - Il nido del ragno - tt0095728


John Parker - Dementia, I'll allow but didn't add it to the list. Cause it's listed as uncredited, and I don't count uncredited titles normally. But since it's his only film I will allow it.
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#222

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

russa03 wrote: February 13th, 2021, 3:30 pm https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/debuts/russa03/ ranked
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Tobe Hooper > Your title: The Texas Chain Saw Massacre. Debut according the OP list: Eggshells
Ilisa Barbash, Lucien Castaing-Taylor > Your title: Sweetgrass. Debut according the OP list: In and Out of Africa
Joshua Oppenheimer > Your title: The Act of Killing. Debut according the OP list: The Entire History of the Louisiana Purchase
André De Toth > Your title: Pitfall. Debut according the OP list: Toprini nász
John McNaughton > Your title: Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer. Debut according the OP list: Hollywood Crime Wave
Sam Raimi > Your title: The Evil Dead. Debut according the OP list: It's Murder!
Danny Boyle > Your title: Shallow Grave. Debut according the OP list: The Venus de Milo Instead

I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Barbara Loden - Wanda - tt0067961
Last edited by Lonewolf2003 on March 7th, 2021, 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#223

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

blocho wrote: February 13th, 2021, 11:01 pm https://www.imdb.com/list/ls089588162/

Unranked
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Pete Docter, Bob Peterson > Your title: Up. Debut according the OP list for Pete Docter: Monsters, Inc. Bob Peterson is the co-director, so it doesn't count for him.
Hiroshi Teshigahara > Your title: Otoshiana. Debut according the OP list: Juuninin no shashinka
Germán Berger > Your title: Mi vida con Carlos. Debut according the OP list: Viaje a Narragonia
Ryszard Bugajski > Your title: Przesluchanie. Debut according the OP list: Maraton
Víctor Gaviria > Your title: La vendedora de rosas. Debut according the OP list: Que pase el aserrador
Malcolm Clarke > Your title: Soldiers in Hiding. Debut according the OP list: Myths Behind the Miracle


I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Greg Mottola - The Daytrippers - tt0116041
Jason Kohn - Manda Bala (Send a Bullet) - tt0912590
Edward James Olmos - American Me - tt0103671
Peter Nicks - The Waiting Room - tt1618399
Tatiana Huezo - El lugar más pequeño - tt1825758
Thet Sambath - Enemies of the People - tt1568328
Alex Smith - The Slaughter Rule - tt0266971
Magdalena Piekorz - Pregi - tt0426173
Falk Harnack - Das Beil von Wandsbek - tt0043328
Rusty Cundieff - Fear of a Black Hat - tt0106880
Robert Bahar - El silencio de otros - tt8099236
Philip Ridley - The Reflecting Skin - tt0100469


John Parker - Dementia - tt0047976: see my quote to peeptoad above.
What We Do in the Shadows: You probably meant to vote for the movie (tt3416742) instead of the series (tt7908628). The movie is eligible.
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#224

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Jimi Antiloop wrote: February 18th, 2021, 5:01 pm This list idea is great!
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls089015516/
Will add some more later.
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Ferdinand Khittl > Your title: Die Parallelstrasse. Debut according the OP list: Werkstatt für Europa - Feuer an der Ruhr
Gert de Graaff > Your title: De zee die denkt. Debut according the OP list: Twee
Frauke Finsterwalder > Your title: Finsterworld. Debut according the OP list: Weil der Mensch ein Mensch ist
José Padilha > Your title: Tropa de Elite. Debut according the OP list: Ônibus 174
Claudia Lehmann > Your title: Schilf. Debut according the OP list: Hans im Glück
Cordula Kablitz-Post > Your title: Lou Andreas-Salomé, The Audacity to be Free. Debut according the OP list: Mein Leben - Helmut Berger
Omer Fast > Your title: Remainder. Debut according the OP list: Nostalgia



I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Tarsem Singh - The Cell - tt0209958
John August - The Nines - tt0810988
Alec Baldwin - The Devil and Daniel Webster - tt0263265
Makoto Shinkai - Kumo no mukô, yakusoku no basho - tt0381348
J.P. Schaefer - Chapter 27 - tt0488988
Dwayne Carey-Hill - Futurama: Bender's Big Score - tt0471711
Nir Paniry - Extracted - tt1757746
Tol - Tamala 2010: A Punk Cat in Space - tt0374262
Hiroshi Hamazaki - Gekijouban Steins;Gate: Fuka ryouiki no dejavu - tt2967286
Franck Vestiel - Eden Log - tt1087842
Peter Avanzino - Futurama: The Beast with a Billion Backs - tt1054485
Jesse Warn - Nemesis Game - tt0323571
Aleksa Gajic - Technotise - Edit i ja - tt1372301
Larry Charles - Masked and Anonymous - tt0319829
John Carl Buechler - Troll - tt0092115 (@Ferge; I ignored Ragewar (1984) cause it's an anthology)
Eric Small - The Dust Factory - tt0329030
Stuart Blumberg - Thanks for Sharing - tt1932718
Isaac Ezban - El incidente - tt3528756
Robert Longo - Johnny Mnemonic - tt0113481
Alex Rivera - Sleep Dealer - tt0804529
Adam Bhala Lough - Bomb the System - tt0337585
Marc Schippert - The Ring Thing - tt0432028
J.C. Chandor - Margin Call - tt1615147
Dave McKean - Mirrormask - tt0366780
Ernest R. Dickerson - Juice - tt0104573
Howard Franklin, Bill Murray - Quick Change - tt0100449
Jacob Krupnick - Girl Walk: All Day - tt2287749
Yann Demange - '71 - tt2614684
Ralf Westhoff - Shoppen - tt0805613
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#225

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

sol wrote: February 20th, 2021, 6:46 am Might add more later, but this will do for now. ^_^ Haven't been following the eligibility discussions too closely, so feel free to ditch whatever isn't eligible.

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/dire ... buts/sol-/

RANKED
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Nikos Nikolaidis > Your title: Evridiki BA 2037. Debut according the OP list: Anef oron
Lucile Hadzihalilovic > Your title: Innocence. Debut according the OP list: La bouche de Jean-Pierre
Rob Marshall > Your title: Chicago. Debut according the OP list: The Wonderful World of Disney: Annie
Samuel Maoz > Your title: Lebanon. Debut according the OP list: Total Eclipse
Ryszard Bugajski > Your title: Przesluchanie. Debut according the OP list: Maraton
Danny Boyle > Your title: Shallow Grave. Debut according the OP list: The Venus de Milo Instead
Andrei Tarkovsky > Your title: Ivanovo detstvo. Debut according the OP list: Katok i skripka
Garth Davis > Your title: Lion. Debut according the OP list: P.I.N.S.

I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Eduardo Casanova - Pieles - tt5808778
Chuck Russell - A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors - tt0089175
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#226

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

perceval wrote: February 25th, 2021, 11:01 pm something like this: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls084882834/
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Jon Jost > Your title: Last Chants for a Slow Dance. Debut according the OP list: Speaking Directly

I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Pat O'Neill - Water and Power - tt0098624
Sharon Lockhart - Goshogaoka - tt0150767
José Luis Guerín - Los motivos de Berta - tt0085966
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#227

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Thanks for posting your list.

I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Dominique Benicheti - Le cousin Jules - tt0128142
Fons Rademakers - Dorp aan de rivier - tt0051552
Hubertus Siegert - Berlin Babylon - tt0276819
Patrick Bokanowski - L'ange - tt0083559
Alain Jessua - La vie à l'envers - tt0059874
Katrin Gebbe - Tore tanzt - tt2822400
Linh Viet  - Ganh xiec rong - tt0286644
István Gaál - Sodrásban - tt0057514
Jean-François Laguionie - Gwen, le livre de sable - tt0087376
Ola Simonsson, Johannes Stjärne Nilsson - Sound of Noise - tt1278449
Aditya Vikram Sengupta - Asha Jaoar Majhe - tt3843088
Jûzô Itami - Osôshiki - tt0089746
Bengt Jägerskog - Hugo och Rosa - tt0387294
Melina León - Canción sin nombre - tt1824932
David Perrault - Nos héros sont morts ce soir - tt2876358
Emir Baigazin - Uroki garmonii - tt2385101
Jodie Mack - The Grand Bizarre - tt8739280
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#228

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

AssonFire wrote: March 1st, 2021, 3:40 am Ranked: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls084820860/
Thanks for posting your list.

I found the following differences between your list and the OP-list. I will consider these ineligible, unless you have a good argument why they should be considered a debut feature. You can of course change or delete these titles from your list if you want.
Philippe Garrel > Your title: Le révélateur. Debut according the OP list: Anémone
Peter B. Hutton > Your title: At Sea. Debut according the OP list: Two Rivers
Hiroshi Teshigahara > Your title: Otoshiana. Debut according the OP list: Juuninin no shashinka
François Ozon > Your title: Regarde la mer. Debut according the OP list: Jospin s'éclaire

I added these titles from your list to the master list to the OP:
Curzio Malaparte - Il Cristo proibito - tt0042354
James Toback - Fingers - tt0077549
Olivier Smolders - Nuit noire - tt0758442
Peter Strickland - Katalin Varga - tt1360875
Last edited by Lonewolf2003 on March 7th, 2021, 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#229

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

St. Gloede wrote: March 4th, 2021, 12:32 am Noticed that Mocky's Les dragueurs / The Chasers (1959) is not on the list (only realized as I was adding Jakten / The Chasers (1959) ) :D

*Is the list updated by the ballots?
Thanks, added Les dragueurs (1959) tt0052759 to the list
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#230

Post by OldAle1 »

I really think you guys should reconsider re: Kish. It's right on the borderline, time-wise, there is just no info at all available on it that I can see, and site after site calls Badkonake sefid his feature debut. If you insist on keeping it with the former, it will get zero votes because nobody's seen it , while the latter will get plenty. I realize that's not a good reason by itself to make such a choice but I think when you have an earlier film that is completely out of distribution AND it's not even all that clear it's feature-length, you probably ought to allow the known and (relatively) popular film generally considered the feature debut. At least with somebody like Tarkovsky we can see his earlier films - though I personally would argue absolutely that none of them count as features - but in this situation it's a case of trusting IMDb's 45-minute listing without anything else much to back it up. And I tend to think that winning a " Best First Feature" prize at a festival like Cannes - which Badkonake sefid did - counts for more than one entry on a notoriously inaccurate database.
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#231

Post by Torgo »

Hehe, you know the mods are rigorous with their decisions, you won't melt their stone cold hearts with the prospect of 0 votes for a hardly existing debut. :P
If that reasoning becomes accepted, I'd feel inclined to reopen the case for Teshigahara, whose Pitfall (1962) would definitely score some points. His alleged debut with 0 checks and counting .. not so much. ^^
Fergenaprido wrote: February 5th, 2021, 10:25 pm
Lonewolf2003 wrote: February 3rd, 2021, 5:59 pm I'm not completely sure what to do with the following titles. Would love to hear your or other people's opinions:
Hiroshi Teshigahara - Otoshiana > Juuninin no shashinka is earlier and over 40 min
Teshigahara: Agreed, looks like Juuninin was released and still exists, though it's very hard to find.
Torgo wrote: February 3rd, 2021, 6:04 pm
Lonewolf2003 wrote: February 3rd, 2021, 5:59 pm Hiroshi Teshigahara - Otoshiana > Juuninin no shashinka is earlier and over 40 min
And you do find any information on this 47-minute supposed doc feature? :huh: Zero useful information for me on a quick google. I am right now doubting if it has been properly released or shown - someone may prove else for me. :whistling:
Yes, there is proof it exists and has been shown, if you know where to look.... :whistling:
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#232

Post by OldAle1 »

I would probably be more lax with the rules myself - the Tarkovsky one is quite arguable but I can understand the viewpoint on it even if I disagree. With stuff that not only is unavailable now but that has ALWAYS been virtually unseen though, I don't get it. I'm guessing the Panahi short was probably something that only screened in Iran at some festival or something and has never been on video. Nobody except the mods here thinks "oh yes that's his first feature". And it's listed as a documentary which further blurs the lines I suppose as "first feature" usually means fiction but we are of course allowing feature-length docs and experimental works (as we should and there are a few on my in-the-making list). I just think sometimes rules get in the way of common sense.
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#233

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

OldAle1 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 5:56 pm I really think you guys should reconsider re: Kish. It's right on the borderline, time-wise, there is just no info at all available on it that I can see, and site after site calls Badkonake sefid his feature debut. If you insist on keeping it with the former, it will get zero votes because nobody's seen it , while the latter will get plenty. I realize that's not a good reason by itself to make such a choice but I think when you have an earlier film that is completely out of distribution AND it's not even all that clear it's feature-length, you probably ought to allow the known and (relatively) popular film generally considered the feature debut. At least with somebody like Tarkovsky we can see his earlier films - though I personally would argue absolutely that none of them count as features - but in this situation it's a case of trusting IMDb's 45-minute listing without anything else much to back it up. And I tend to think that winning a " Best First Feature" prize at a festival like Cannes - which Badkonake sefid did - counts for more than one entry on a notoriously inaccurate database.
I totally understand your reasoning, and I'm doubt about Kish eligibility too. Therefor while Badkonake sefi isn't on the master list, I won't count as ineligible when calculating the results.
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#234

Post by Torgo »

OldAle1 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 6:09 pm I just think sometimes rules get in the way of common sense.
I do agree. Luckily, I am not in the position to decide over this day after day. :D
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#235

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Torgo wrote: March 7th, 2021, 6:06 pm Hehe, you know the mods are rigorous with their decisions, you won't melt their stone cold hearts with the prospect of 0 votes for a hardly existing debut. :P
If that reasoning becomes accepted, I'd feel inclined to reopen the case for Teshigahara, whose Pitfall (1962) would definitely score some points. His alleged debut with 0 checks and counting .. not so much. ^^
Fergenaprido wrote: February 5th, 2021, 10:25 pm
Lonewolf2003 wrote: February 3rd, 2021, 5:59 pm I'm not completely sure what to do with the following titles. Would love to hear your or other people's opinions:
Hiroshi Teshigahara - Otoshiana > Juuninin no shashinka is earlier and over 40 min
Teshigahara: Agreed, looks like Juuninin was released and still exists, though it's very hard to find.
Torgo wrote: February 3rd, 2021, 6:04 pm

And you do find any information on this 47-minute supposed doc feature? :huh: Zero useful information for me on a quick google. I am right now doubting if it has been properly released or shown - someone may prove else for me. :whistling:
Yes, there is proof it exists and has been shown, if you know where to look.... :whistling:
Firstly I'm not a mod. Secondly when someone makes a fairly good case to include a movie I'm open to listen. If you have sources that show I should doubt the running time of Juuninin no shashinka I will reconsider your case too.
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#236

Post by OldAle1 »

OK, thanks for the reply Lonewolf. Here's my list as is, might as well get it in now given the conversation and all the extra work you guys have to do. Even if I criticize I do appreciate your efforts for sure.

Top 30 ranked, the rest chronological:

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/favo ... zzlehatch/
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#237

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

OldAle1 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 6:29 pm OK, thanks for the reply Lonewolf. Here's my list as is, might as well get it in now given the conversation and all the extra work you guys have to do. Even if I criticize I do appreciate your efforts for sure.

Top 30 ranked, the rest chronological:

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/favo ... zzlehatch/
Thanks, I didn't see your remark as criticism, but as useful feedback. I'm actually glad you replied, makes me feel I don't spent my whole Sunday afternoon doing something nobody gives a rats ass about ;) I agree with you that following strict rules shouldn't stand in the way of common sense.
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#238

Post by Onderhond »

OldAle1 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 6:09 pm I'm guessing the Panahi short was probably something that only screened in Iran at some festival or something and has never been on video.
Depends on what you want from this poll. If it's about how well a director did with his first film or how much potential he showed, then availability really isn't a factor. In fact, the lack of availability may be seen as an indication of its quality (though I personally wouldn't agree with that).
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#239

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Onderhond wrote: March 7th, 2021, 6:33 pm
OldAle1 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 6:09 pm I'm guessing the Panahi short was probably something that only screened in Iran at some festival or something and has never been on video.
Depends on what you want from this poll. If it's about how well a director did with his first film or how much potential he showed, then availability really isn't a factor. In fact, the lack of availability may be seen as an indication of its quality (though I personally wouldn't agree with that).
The point about Kish to me isn't the availability of the movie on its release. But the availability of information about it, especially its run time and therefor having doubts about it's eligibility.
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#240

Post by OldAle1 »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 6:40 pm
Onderhond wrote: March 7th, 2021, 6:33 pm
OldAle1 wrote: March 7th, 2021, 6:09 pm I'm guessing the Panahi short was probably something that only screened in Iran at some festival or something and has never been on video.
Depends on what you want from this poll. If it's about how well a director did with his first film or how much potential he showed, then availability really isn't a factor. In fact, the lack of availability may be seen as an indication of its quality (though I personally wouldn't agree with that).
The point about Kish to me isn't the availability of the movie on its release. But the availability of information about it, especially its run time and therefor having doubts about it's eligibility.
Yeah that's my main issue as well - in the context of the way the rules have already been laid out. I personally would have no problem whatsoever if the rule was extended to discount lost films, i.e. let Ozu's earliest available complete feature count as his first. Is this ACCURATE? Of course not. But this is not a poll of how we as people living in early 1920s Japan would have felt seeing the work of this new director, this is a poll for us 21st century viewers evaluating the value of these films, and we have no way to evaluate certain films, so we have to either discard these directors from consideration, or make exceptions for them based on historical fact. It doesn't really bother me to choose the former in most cases but I think arguments for the latter are compelling as well. And of course it opens up a new hornet's nest that would make things even more complicated and more work.

And one thing that I don't think has been discussed is how the directors themselves feel. Maybe David Lynch thinks the 34-minute The Grandmother is his first real feature. We know Kiarostami didn't think much of his earliest films - what did he think his first "real" movie was? Should that matter? And what about the differences between different countries re: feature distribution. I think the main reason the film world has settled on the 40-45 minute mark as the minimum for features has to do with the American b-movie of the 30s-50s - did such a thing even exist as a commercial reality in France or Japan or elsewhere? And so what if it did - it doesn't now. You can't get a 48-minute film released in cinemas as a "feature" today, certainly not in the US and I doubt in most countries.

So it's all a bunch of fucking bullshit is what it is.

But it's a fun argument to have and I'm sure I'll enjoy the results regardless of all the disagreements. :D
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