iCM Forum's Favourite Directorial Debut Features; Nominations

[Lonewolf2003]

iCM Forum's Favourite Directorial Debut Features
Nominations


Everybody has to start somewhere, and so do directors. In this poll we will see which director's starts are our favorites.

Only directorial debut features are eligible for this poll!
But what is a directorial debut feature? A feature is a movie of 40 or more minutes. A directorial debut is the first film directed by a director that was commercially released or more broadly said was made available for public viewing. So a directorial debut feature is the first film of at least 40 minutes directed by a director that was publicly released.
Tv movies, straight-to-video/streaming service movies are allowed. An anthology and co-directed feature is eligible when it is the debut of one of the listed (co-)directors.

If you are unsure if a movie is eligible, don't feel afraid to ask. In fact I strongly encourage discussions (by doubt) to constantly improve the list of eligible titles.

Some help:
See these lists from eligible titles:
list
list
They are not complete and not flawless yet. I will update and correct them regularly based among other lists posted and discussions here. I will post corrections made in the list to notify every one of them. After the deadline I will give everyone one week the opportunity to correct/update their list (if necessary). (Ineligible titles will be automatically filtered out when calculating the results.)

This list was made thanks to Fergenaprido's fantastic work.
This Google Spreadsheet is the source for the imdb and icm lists. It's VERY MUCH a work in progress, but feel free to peruse it for additional ideas. There are also notes for instances where the "debut feature" is not clear.
Green = multiple directors have the same debut feature
Yellow = the film is the debut for one of the directors, but not for the other(s)
Orange = there is some question as to which film should be considered the debut - I've left a note in the ttid cell in every instance

See also this topic for more information.

Movies in above list and your IMDb list: https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?my_r ... tings,desc (Replace ZZZ with your list id)

(ICM list is coming soon)

DEALINE =12 MARCH 2021

Rules:

• The list should containt movie titles, not directors.*
• IMDb- or iCM-lists are accepted. (If you can't make one of those, ask another user to help you out.)
• Lists can be any length.
• Each nominee can only be named once (of course)
• Lists can be ranked or unranked or partially-ranked. In a partially-ranked list, the top X films are ranked and everything after that point is unranked. When not specified I will consider a list as ranked.

*In the results thread I will highlight in some way for which director(s) an entry was the debut.

Half-life = TBD

Participant = 42

beavis
hurluberlu (unranked28)
Onderhond
TraverseTown
RolandKirkSunglasses
Teproc
Caracortada
Gorro
Obgeoff
Smoover
joachimt (unranked45)
Mysterious Dude
Lakigigar
zzzorf
frbrown (unranked)
peeptoad (unranked)
russa03
blocho (unranked)
DudeLanez
Jimi Antiloop
sol
perceval
pitchorneirda
AssonFire
Gordon_Gekko (unranked100)
AB537 (unranked42)
OldAle1 (unranked30)
Mifune
gromit82
connordenney
zomgmouse
lineuphere
Opio
St. Gloede
Panunzio
Lonewolf2003 (unranked110)
monclivie
Fergenaprido
filmbantha
Torgo
tobias
Melvelet (unranked50)

Please check if your list is stated, ordered and linked correctly. And is set to public. For iCM lists you can also set it to "Friends" and befriend me.

[Lonewolf2003]

I'm not sure yet what to do with standalone episodes of anthology tv-series. For example episodes for Play for Today, Alfred Hitchcock Presents, U.S. Go Home or Black Mirror. I'm leaning to them being eligible. How do others feel?
(Don't know if this will be even an issue and if any director debuted with an episode in an anthology tv-serie).

The 40 minutes cut-off for feature length was chosen cause it's inline for what we use for challenges too and it's what most sites/organizations (f.e. Academy, BFI and AFI) use. (I'm open for discussion tho)

[beavis]

this is so hard to do! not only knowing for sure that the debut feature is an actual debut feature but then: which to include? how to rank?

I decided to go with only the movies that I really like and was very impressed with as a debut (otherwise, where to end...?), ranked with a strong bias on how much they impressed me (how original the voice is another way to describe that maybe). I am sure I have made mistakes on features not being actual debuts. I would have liked to have ranked En Kärlekshistoria by Roy Andersson extremely high (maybe a favorite debut for me), only to find out he made a short feature a year before that one, so it's not a debut afterall... grrr. But I did not such a thorough check on every movie on my list at this point...

without anymore ado:
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/dire ... st/beavis/

[joachimt]

I think I'll just try to filter my fav-movies-list. No idea how many debuts there are on there.

[hurluberlu]

My list
1-86 ranked
Rest unranked

[Onderhond]

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/best ... onderhond/ (ranked)

Best effort, also because IMDb isn't always that reliable for Asian directors. Clearly I love debuts as 126/675 is a pretty decent percentage. These films are often made with a certain "do or die"/"this may be my only chance" mentality, which I can definitely appreciate.

[monclivie]

this is so hard to do! not only knowing for sure that the debut feature is an actual debut feature but then: which to include? how to rank?

I decided to go with only the movies that I really like and was very impressed with as a debut (otherwise, where to end...?), ranked with a strong bias on how much they impressed me (how original the voice is another way to describe that maybe). I am sure I have made mistakes on features not being actual debuts. I would have liked to have ranked En Kärlekshistoria by Roy Andersson extremely high (maybe a favorite debut for me), only to find out he made a short feature a year before that one, so it's not a debut afterall... grrr. But I did not such a thorough check on every movie on my list at this point...

without anymore ado:
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/dire ... st/beavis/

En Kärlekshistoria should be eligible 48 minutes long film school project unreleased for 40 years until 2009 and listed mostly everywhere as a short, shouldn't be counted as a feature debut

[beavis]

I would not mind that!

[Lonewolf2003]

this is so hard to do! not only knowing for sure that the debut feature is an actual debut feature but then: which to include? how to rank?

I decided to go with only the movies that I really like and was very impressed with as a debut (otherwise, where to end...?), ranked with a strong bias on how much they impressed me (how original the voice is another way to describe that maybe). I am sure I have made mistakes on features not being actual debuts. I would have liked to have ranked En Kärlekshistoria by Roy Andersson extremely high (maybe a favorite debut for me), only to find out he made a short feature a year before that one, so it's not a debut afterall... grrr. But I did not such a thorough check on every movie on my list at this point...

without anymore ado:
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/dire ... st/beavis/

En Kärlekshistoria should be eligible 48 minutes long film school project unreleased for 40 years until 2009 and listed mostly everywhere as a short, shouldn't be counted as a feature debut

You mean Lördagen den 5.10? Any source that is was unreleashed for 40 year, cause than it can't be considered as publicly released and is not his directorial debut feature in my book either.

Andersson also has directed a documentary earlier, Den vita sporten (1968), but that was as part of a collective. So not sure to count that one. Thoughts of anyone?


I'm not going to decide case-by-case if something is a feature or not based on how other sites define shorts. But if there is massive outcry here to increase the cut-off I will listen.

[tobias]

I'm not sure yet what to do with standalone episodes of anthology tv-series. For example episodes for Play for Today, Alfred Hitchcock Presents, U.S. Go Home or Black Mirror. I'm leaning to them being eligible. How do others feel?
(Don't know if this will be even an issue and if any director debuted with an episode in an anthology tv-serie).

The 40 minutes cut-off for feature length was chosen cause it's inline for what we use for challenges too and it's what most sites/organizations (f.e. Academy, BFI and AFI) use. (I'm open for discussion tho)

This is a little known fact but Jarmush's Stranger than Paradise was part of a somewhat similar anthology programme, Das kleine Fernsehspiel at ZDF, Germany which like the french TV production is supposed to give a platform to young and emerging directors. I feel like as long as it's completely stand-alone it should be eligible. Tous les garçons et les filles de leur âge produced multiple well known films as well, at least Portrait d'une jeune fille de la fin des années 60 à Bruxelles and US Go Home get frequent mentions online these days. I don't see any reason to regard them as one work. But neither of them are debuts either.

As for the Roy Andersson discussion. 10 directors working on a political documentary doesn't make it anyones debut in my eyes. I would also consider En Kärlekhetshistorie his debut.

[tobias]

Actually a question pops up for me now. How do people stand on Elevator to the Gallows?

[beavis]

I updated my list, Roy Andersson enters high! added a few I had missed too and removed one (shaun of the dead) realizing it was not a debut. I saw Onderhond listed Tetsuo as the debut of Tsukamoto, but I'm not sure it is, otherwise it would also be a high one for me.

[tobias]

Another question: You all consider CK Welles debut and not Too Much Johnson, right? The later, being supporting material for a theatre show really couldn't be argued to be a feature debut.

[monclivie]

this is so hard to do! not only knowing for sure that the debut feature is an actual debut feature but then: which to include? how to rank?

I decided to go with only the movies that I really like and was very impressed with as a debut (otherwise, where to end...?), ranked with a strong bias on how much they impressed me (how original the voice is another way to describe that maybe). I am sure I have made mistakes on features not being actual debuts. I would have liked to have ranked En Kärlekshistoria by Roy Andersson extremely high (maybe a favorite debut for me), only to find out he made a short feature a year before that one, so it's not a debut afterall... grrr. But I did not such a thorough check on every movie on my list at this point...

without anymore ado:
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/dire ... st/beavis/

En Kärlekshistoria should be eligible 48 minutes long film school project unreleased for 40 years until 2009 and listed mostly everywhere as a short, shouldn't be counted as a feature debut

You mean Lördagen den 5.10? Any source that is was unreleashed for 40 year, cause than it can't be considered as publicly released and is not his directorial debut feature in my book either.

Andersson also has directed a documentary earlier, Den vita sporten (1968), but that was as part of a collective. So not sure to count that one. Thoughts of anyone?


I'm not going to decide case-by-case if something is a feature or not based on how other sites define shorts. But if there is massive outcry here to increase the cut-off I will listen.

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%B6rdagen_den_5/10 - here they write it's a sudent film during his years in Film Institute released in 2009 in a DVD collection of his student films and that - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0316196/releaseinfo - looks like it was only screened at this Film Institute and never released or widely screened until 2009. Hell, even on royandersson.com which looks like quite a reliable source it says "Feature-length film debut in 1970 with A Swedish Love Story". Case closed?

[Fergenaprido]

Aside from the imdb list Lonewolf is managing, I will have an icm list up by the end of the week to help those who make their lists there (and use the watchlist feature).

This Google Spreadsheet is the source Lonewolf and I are using for the imdb and icm lists. It's VERY MUCH a work in progress, but feel free to peruse it for additional ideas. There are also notes for instances where the "debut feature" is not clear.

Green = multiple directors have the same debut feature
Yellow = the film is the debut for one of the directors, but not for the other(s)
Orange = there is some question as to which film should be considered the debut - I've left a note in the ttid cell in every instance

[zomgmouse]

I could be wrong but the imdb list in the OP doesn't seem to have Eraserhead...?

Jarmush's Stranger than Paradise

Wasn't Jarmusch's debut Permanent Vacation?

[TraverseTown]

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/trav ... aversetown ranked

[RolandKirkSunglasses]

Ranked.

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/dire ... unglasses/

[tobias]

I could be wrong but the imdb list in the OP doesn't seem to have Eraserhead...?

Jarmush's Stranger than Paradise

Wasn't Jarmusch's debut Permanent Vacation?

Yes. It was more about these anthology series on TV, maybe that wasn't clear.

[Lonewolf2003]

En Kärlekshistoria should be eligible 48 minutes long film school project unreleased for 40 years until 2009 and listed mostly everywhere as a short, shouldn't be counted as a feature debut

You mean Lördagen den 5.10? Any source that is was unreleashed for 40 year, cause than it can't be considered as publicly released and is not his directorial debut feature in my book either.

Andersson also has directed a documentary earlier, Den vita sporten (1968), but that was as part of a collective. So not sure to count that one. Thoughts of anyone?


I'm not going to decide case-by-case if something is a feature or not based on how other sites define shorts. But if there is massive outcry here to increase the cut-off I will listen.

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%B6rdagen_den_5/10 - here they write it's a sudent film during his years in Film Institute released in 2009 in a DVD collection of his student films and that - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0316196/releaseinfo - looks like it was only screened at this Film Institute and never released or widely screened until 2009. Hell, even on royandersson.com which looks like quite a reliable source it says "Feature-length film debut in 1970 with A Swedish Love Story". Case closed?

Okay, I'm convinced and En Kärlekshistoria is eligible now instead of Lördagen den 5.10

[Lonewolf2003]

Actually a question pops up for me now. How do people stand on Elevator to the Gallows?

Isn't Le monde du silence (1956) Malle's debut really? He was a (co-)director on that, and it even won the Palme d'Or.

[Teproc]

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/icm+ ... ts/teproc/

[Lonewolf2003]

Another question: You all consider CK Welles debut and not Too Much Johnson, right? The later, being supporting material for a theatre show really couldn't be argued to be a feature debut.

Yes, I agree. From wiki: "Too Much Johnson is a 1938 comedy film written and directed by Welles. Designed as the cinematic aspect of Welles's Mercury Theatre stage presentation of William Gillette's 1894 comedy, the film was not completely edited or publicly screened. Too Much Johnson was considered a lost film until August 2013" So that can't be considered his debut. Kane is.

[Lonewolf2003]

I could be wrong but the imdb list in the OP doesn't seem to have Eraserhead...?

Jarmush's Stranger than Paradise

Wasn't Jarmusch's debut Permanent Vacation?

Yes PV is Jarmush debut. It is in the list.

Added Eraserhead too. Thanks.

[Lonewolf2003]

I updated my list, Roy Andersson enters high! added a few I had missed too and removed one (shaun of the dead) realizing it was not a debut. I saw Onderhond listed Tetsuo as the debut of Tsukamoto, but I'm not sure it is, otherwise it would also be a high one for me.

Tsukamoto seems to have made movies before that. Some as a kid with a Super 8 camera, think those can't be considered. Denchû kozô no bôken [The Adventure of Denchu-Kozo/The Adventures of Electric Rod Boy](1987) was made before Tetsuo and was released, it did win PIA Film Fest (Japan) – Grand Prize and it's over 40 min. I will consider that be his directorial debut feature (until proven otherwise)

[tobias]

Actually a question pops up for me now. How do people stand on Elevator to the Gallows?

Isn't Le monde du silence (1956) Malle's debut really? He was a (co-)director on that, and it even won the Palme d'Or.

Yes, I was just never sure about his exact involvement. I always felt that it was more of a Cousteau film and that Malle was an asistant that he hired and who then achieved extensive credit even though on reality Cousteau called the shots. Malle was 20 when he began working on the film. His next job was being an asistant on a Bresson film. Sometimes you credit people for more than they are or for less.

[Lonewolf2003]

Actually a question pops up for me now. How do people stand on Elevator to the Gallows?

Isn't Le monde du silence (1956) Malle's debut really? He was a (co-)director on that, and it even won the Palme d'Or.

Yes, I was just never sure about his exact involvement. I always felt that it was more of a Cousteau film and that Malle was an asistant that he hired and who then achieved extensive credit even though on reality Cousteau called the shots. Malle was 20 when he began working on the film. His next job was being an asistant on a Bresson film. Sometimes you credit people for more than they are or for less.

I understand your point. Being called a co-director indeed sometimes don't mean much. But couldn't find much information so far on how much Malle was actually involved in the directing. So will consider that his debut, untill someone can give more information about this.

[Caracortada]

This was hard work, but I now have a list of forty-six titles.

ICM Poll: Where Do I Begin?

At the moment I did NOT include:
*Charlie Chaplin - who made one 46 minute movie before "The Kid".
*Woody Allen - Who "directed" "What's Up, Tiger Lily", which is just some kind of voice-over joke to a Japanese film. Otherwise I would include "Take the Money and Run".
*Sydney Lumet - who did one TV movie before '12 Angry Men".

However I DID include
*Jazmila Zbanic - who made a 39 minute documentary before "Grbavica".
*Vincente Minnelli - who has one uncredited title before "Cabin in the Sky".

[Fergenaprido]

Isn't Le monde du silence (1956) Malle's debut really? He was a (co-)director on that, and it even won the Palme d'Or.

Yes, I was just never sure about his exact involvement. I always felt that it was more of a Cousteau film and that Malle was an asistant that he hired and who then achieved extensive credit even though on reality Cousteau called the shots. Malle was 20 when he began working on the film. His next job was being an asistant on a Bresson film. Sometimes you credit people for more than they are or for less.

I understand your point. Being called a co-director indeed sometimes don't mean much. But couldn't find much information so far on how much Malle was actually involved in the directing. So will consider that his debut, untill someone can give more information about this.

I feel the same. If one person is listed as "director" and the other as "co-director", I consider the co-director a junior person and ignore that credit. If both are listed as "director" or both as "co-director", then I consider them equal partners in the film. IIRC, both are credited as directed on World of Silence, so unless there's information about Malle's credits just being on paper (such as Cousteau winning director awards without Malle, etc.), I concur with Lonewolf.

Also, updated source list for all the directors mentioned here thus far. Lonewolf, how do you want me to highlight the latest editions/corrections in the spreadsheet so you can update the imdb list?

[joachimt]

At the moment I did NOT include:
*Sydney Lumet - who did one TV movie before '12 Angry Men".

According to IMDb that TV movie is 30 min. So 12 Angry Men is a debut feature, am I right?

[hurluberlu]

At the moment I did NOT include:
*Sydney Lumet - who did one TV movie before '12 Angry Men".

According to IMDb that TV movie is 30 min. So 12 Angry Men is a debut feature, am I right?

It is also missing from Ferg's list in the OP then.

[joachimt]

Sorok pervyy can be added to the list as well. Certainly voting for it.

[Fergenaprido]

At the moment I did NOT include:
*Sydney Lumet - who did one TV movie before '12 Angry Men".

According to IMDb that TV movie is 30 min. So 12 Angry Men is a debut feature, am I right?

It is also missing from Ferg's list in the OP then.

Haven't gotten there yet. I'm almost finished the D directors
I'll do Lumet now for you (he's there with 12 Angry Men in the second tab).

Sorok pervyy can be added to the list as well. Certainly voting for it.

Same. Overlooked him when I went through the Cs. Noted.

[hurluberlu]

According to IMDb that TV movie is 30 min. So 12 Angry Men is a debut feature, am I right?

It is also missing from Ferg's list in the OP then.

Haven't gotten there yet. I'm almost finished the D directors
I'll do Lumet now for you (he's there with 12 Angry Men in the second tab).

I meant from the imdb list in the OP, it has all kind of names already.

[Lonewolf2003]

Yes, I was just never sure about his exact involvement. I always felt that it was more of a Cousteau film and that Malle was an asistant that he hired and who then achieved extensive credit even though on reality Cousteau called the shots. Malle was 20 when he began working on the film. His next job was being an asistant on a Bresson film. Sometimes you credit people for more than they are or for less.

I understand your point. Being called a co-director indeed sometimes don't mean much. But couldn't find much information so far on how much Malle was actually involved in the directing. So will consider that his debut, untill someone can give more information about this.

I feel the same. If one person is listed as "director" and the other as "co-director", I consider the co-director a junior person and ignore that credit. If both are listed as "director" or both as "co-director", then I consider them equal partners in the film. IIRC, both are credited as directed on World of Silence, so unless there's information about Malle's credits just being on paper (such as Cousteau winning director awards without Malle, etc.), I concur with Lonewolf.

Also, updated source list for all the directors mentioned here thus far. Lonewolf, how do you want me to highlight the latest editions/corrections in the spreadsheet so you can update the imdb list?

Could you highlight them in some color? With a filter I should be able to pick those out.

I also added most mentioned in this topic already. Will go through all lists posted tomorrow to add those nominated but missing, and notify people of incorrect or debatable entries.

[Lonewolf2003]

It is also missing from Ferg's list in the OP then.

Haven't gotten there yet. I'm almost finished the D directors
I'll do Lumet now for you (he's there with 12 Angry Men in the second tab).

I meant from the imdb list in the OP, it has all kind of names already.

That list is primarily based on Ferge list, plus some mentioned already in this topic too, and like said in the OP it’s far from complete. Thanks for the heads up tho

[Caracortada]

I will add "12 Angry Men" and some others from that imdb list that I had overlooked. I notice that one does include Chaplin's "The Kid", and John Huston's "The Maltese Falcon" is missing. Eric Rohmer has one 50 minute movie before "Le Signe du Lion".

[Lonewolf2003]

This was hard work, but I now have a list of forty-six titles.

ICM Poll: Where Do I Begin?

At the moment I did NOT include:
*Charlie Chaplin - who made one 46 minute movie before "The Kid".
*Woody Allen - Who "directed" "What's Up, Tiger Lily", which is just some kind of voice-over joke to a Japanese film. Otherwise I would include "Take the Money and Run".
*Sydney Lumet - who did one TV movie before '12 Angry Men".

However I DID include
*Jazmila Zbanic - who made a 39 minute documentary before "Grbavica".
*Vincente Minnelli - who has one uncredited title before "Cabin in the Sky".

Chaplin; I will look into later. Which short do you mean?

For Allen Ferge and I count Take the Money and Run as his debut, cause What's Up, Tiger Lily is indeed just some voice-over of a Japanese movie.

For Lumet; see Joachim reaction. That TV movie is less than 40 min, so 12 Angry Men is his debut.

Cabin in the Sky indeed is Vincente Minnelli debut. That uncredited one I don’t count either. Thanks, added it
Grbavica I added also. Zbanic made a 39 min tv doc, and she directed a segment for an anthology film but that segment seems to be the same as her short and is just 12 min. So those don’t count.

[Lonewolf2003]

Eric Rohmer has one 50 minute movie before "Le Signe du Lion".

Yes but Kreutzer Sonate never seem to have had a real wide release at the time and was unfinished. So didn’t count that one.

[Caracortada]

Eric Rohmer has one 50 minute movie before "Le Signe du Lion".

Yes but Kreutzer Sonate never seem to have had a real wide release at the time and was unfinished. So didn’t count that one.

Thanks. I will add "Le Signe du Lion" then. For Chaplin "Chase Me Charlie" (1918) is 46 minutes according to imdb. He directed it wit Langford Reed.