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iCM Forum's Favourite TV-series 2nd edition; Nominations

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes

Should mini-series be eliglble for this poll? (See OP for definition)

Poll ended at December 14th, 2020, 3:23 pm

Yes, all mini-series should be allowed.
12
24%
No, mini-series according to the definition in the OP with maximum 16 episode shouldn't be allowed
22
45%
No, mini-series according to the definition in the OP but with a shorter maximum amount episodes shouldn't be allowed (max. episodes TBD (4,6,8?))
11
22%
Don't care/know
4
8%
Other
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 49

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Lonewolf2003
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#81

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Caracortada wrote: December 12th, 2020, 10:22 am What's the rule for series with sequels? According to imdb Blackadder consists of four different series, but most people would probably see it as one big series. Another example is Yes, Minister and its sequel Yes, Prime Minister. Do they count as one series together?

Another problem is Miss Marple with Joan Hickson. According to imdb those are twelve different TV films or even miniseries.
brokenface wrote: December 13th, 2020, 10:37 am
Few awkward ones I left off as IMDB lists as separate miniseries, when I could consider them one show: Heimat, The Young/New Pope, Blackadder, House of Cards (original). Twin Peaks I'm considering to be all one so only listed the original.
For now I will follow IMDb on these. But if there's enough support to count any as one series I will do so.

For Blackadder and Twin Peaks I personally would be for counting them as one tv-series. Don't know Miss Marple , but that sounds as one series to me too.
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#83

Post by weirdboy »

So, does Firefly count as an entry or no?
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#84

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

weirdboy wrote: December 17th, 2020, 9:49 am So, does Firefly count as an entry or no?
Yes, cause it was planned to be longer but canceled,
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#85

Post by Onderhond »

So just to make sure, the 13-ep anime TV series listed as TV series on IMDb don't count for this poll?
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#86

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Onderhond wrote: December 17th, 2020, 10:54 am So just to make sure, the 13-ep anime TV series listed as TV series on IMDb don't count for this poll?
Yes they don't count, as long as they are intended as a single unified work and not episodic, and not planned to be longer but canceled.
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#87

Post by Onderhond »

"as a single unified work and not episodic" -> it's this part that I can't really parse. Something with opening/ending songs and credits is by default episodic in my brain. Many series are also a mix of episodic/filler episodes with some broader story arcs mixed in. Do shows like Boogiepop Phantom and Serial Experiments Lain count?

@Lonewolf2003: I know you did they poll and all, so this is definitely not aimed at you, but sometimes ICM is 100% :circle: Do a film poll and you get TV series in the results, do a TV series poll and you're prohibited from entering TV series :D
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#88

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Onderhond wrote: December 17th, 2020, 11:43 am "as a single unified work and not episodic" -> it's this part that I can't really parse. Something with opening/ending songs and credits is by default episodic in my brain. Many series are also a mix of episodic/filler episodes with some broader story arcs mixed in. Do shows like Boogiepop Phantom and Serial Experiments Lain count?

@Lonewolf2003: I know you did they poll and all, so this is definitely not aimed at you, but sometimes ICM is 100% :circle: Do a film poll and you get TV series in the results, do a TV series poll and you're prohibited from entering TV series :D
A single unified work means that, while it's made up of different episodes, the series tells one overall story. Basically if you would delete all opening-/ending songs, recaps, previews etc., and put all episodes back to back it would make one very long movie. Something like Elfen Lied would fit this (It's mentioned as mini-series on IMDb but couldn't come up with a better example). Episodic means that the episodes on themselves tell contained stories, but the series is only loosely connected. Don't have a clear anime example, but sit-coms are the prime example of this. I hope this made it a bit clearer.

Although this interpretation also doens't cover it for 100%, cause something like Paranoia Agent has very episodic episodes but still tells a unified story.

If a series of <16 episodes has filler episodes and episodic episodes, to me it isn't a single unified work and might be counted as a tv-series. Maybe other users can help to judge if the given examples are mini-series or tv-series. But since Serial Experiments Lain is eligible for most polls, I guess it's a mini-series.


I can understand that it all might be vague and confusing. The definition is very American tv centered, in which the distinction between tv-series and mini-series is (or in fact used to be) is more clear. With mini-series being series that are written and plotted out in advance before filming, like movies are. For anime and other Asian tv this distinction might be different (I know), but because I don't know and can't judge every series it will be simpler to use just this one definition
.
Last edited by Lonewolf2003 on December 17th, 2020, 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#89

Post by Onderhond »

Well, I already mentioned Serial Experiments Lain and Boogiepop Phantom. Kino no Tabi is another one. Usually the first episodes of these series are rather episodic (certainly in the case of Boogiepop they feel like standalone stories), though later on they're tied into a broader narrative that develops as the series goes along, with the final set of episodes functioning more like a more typical film narrative/climax. I don't watch that much TV, but that seems to be the case for most non-sitcoms series, no?

If you'd cut away the opening and ending credits and paste everything together, you would end up with an incredibly messy and badly paced film, but it's not like these don't exist either. I feel the only series where that wouldn't be problematic (and those are the ones I'd naturally consider mini-series) are the ones with a smaller amount of episodes that last longer (Band of Brothers and the like). But 10+ 20-minute episodes with op/eds will always end up being a disjointed mess when stringed together.

No doubt these rules were introduced to allow for some very specific entries in previous polls. I'm not gonna put too much effort into this discussion anymore to save us both some time, it's not like I'm really invested in the results anyway. :)

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls082271396/
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#90

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Onderhond wrote: December 17th, 2020, 1:31 pm Well, I already mentioned Serial Experiments Lain and Boogiepop Phantom. Kino no Tabi is another one. Usually the first episodes of these series are rather episodic (certainly in the case of Boogiepop they feel like standalone stories), though later on they're tied into a broader narrative that develops as the series goes along, with the final set of episodes functioning more like a more typical film narrative/climax. I don't watch that much TV, but that seems to be the case for most non-sitcoms series, no?

If you'd cut away the opening and ending credits and paste everything together, you would end up with an incredibly messy and badly paced film, but it's not like these don't exist either. I feel the only series where that wouldn't be problematic (and those are the ones I'd naturally consider mini-series) are the ones with a smaller amount of episodes that last longer (Band of Brothers and the like). But 10+ 20-minute episodes with op/eds will always end up being a disjointed mess when stringed together.

No doubt these rules were introduced to allow for some very specific entries in previous polls. I'm not gonna put too much effort into this discussion anymore to save us both some time, it's not like I'm really invested in the results anyway. :)

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls082271396/
Well, yeah, the mini-series was made (I think) to allow mini-series for polls. But is very American/Western? tv centered. For anime and other Asian tv this definition and distinctions works less well.
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#91

Post by Onderhond »

Are there really many mini-series with 10+ episodes though? I assume the rule was set up to allow for very specific series like Berlin Alexanderplatz?
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#93

Post by OldAle1 »

OK, I think I've looked through all this fairly carefully and I think this falls into roughly the same category that lonewolf answers in post #81 above - and it probably doesn't matter because I'll probably be the only one listing it - but I might as well just be sure:

The Jeremy Brett-starring Granada TV "Sherlock Holmes" series, is, in my mind, all one series, but like BLackAdder and some other Brit series individual seasons have different titles. While the character of Watson is played by two different actors, I find it hard to imagine most people thinking of this as four distinct separate series (+ 2 TV movies); it's all of a piece. But I just want to make sure; as is my list just has the first series, titled The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and that's the way I'll keep it - meaning the series as a whole - unless told otherwise.
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#95

Post by Rufus-T »

10 for now. I will add more and re-arrange before the deadline: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls082248131/ (ranked)

EDIT: Updated to a list of 40.

EDIT: Added a few more

RIP Dawn Wells (Mary Ann)
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#96

Post by Opio »

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#99

Post by Ebbywebby »

During the past few months, I've been doing a LOT to make the "TV" portion of ICM better. If you ever used the beta-version tags to note how many episodes or series you've checked, your current tally might be a chunk higher than you'd expect. At some point in the recent past, I noted there were 148K tagged episodes on ICM...now there are 180K.

A lot of problems fixed with episode titles too. Sometimes the English translation was missing, or sometimes the episode was just "Episode #N.NN" where the IMDb version has a proper title.

But there's more to do...more than I'll ever finish.
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#100

Post by weirdboy »

Are these separate series or combined?

Doctor Who (original vs. 2005-)
Battlestar Galactica (original vs. 2004-2009)
Twin Peaks (first vs. second season)


Also is Steins;Gate considered a series or just mini-series?


And I suppose I should also ask about Connections since I am the one responsible for getting it on official lists. These are broken out as Connections 1, 2, 3 and basically self-contained but want to get a ruling on whether these are mini-series or the whole thing is one TV series.

And lastly, I was a really big fan of Michael Jackson's Beer Hunter series, but this is such a rarely acknolwedged beast apparently that it is not even listed on IMDB, although I do see it mentioned on Wikipedia.
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#101

Post by outdoorcats »

I'm not Lonewolf so this isn't my call...but surely no one would argue the original Battlestar Galactica is one combined series with the remake??

Also I think the OP says that if it's longer than 16 episodes, it's a series, so Steins;Gate (24 episodes) should count.

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#102

Post by OldAle1 »

Yeah the two main Battlestar Galactica shows (nobody's going to have Galactica 1980 on their list, are they? Caprica, maybe) are completely different animals, with the 2000s show being a re-working and re-imagining, with casts and creators almost completely different, and a totally different direction in the narrative. Just not the same at all.

The way I tend to think of the larger picture here when it comes to putting such series together as one entry, or long-delayed sequels (i.e. Twin Peaks) is, how do people in general watch these things, or think about them? I really doubt anybody thinks of the two BG shows as being the same thing, but a lot of people would say that TP is one show - same creative people and cast for the most part, and a continuation of the original series. Lots of people will watch one iteration of BG or another and maybe not bother with the others; almost anybody starting TP now is going to watch all three seasons. Some of this is common sense, isn't it? Then again we gotta argue over everything here... :lol:

Doctor Who is a little more problematic, with the newer series certainly a continuation in a sense, but also having a very different feel to them. I could go either way with that one but not having seen enough I'm also not very confident in my opinion.
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#103

Post by outdoorcats »

OldAle1 wrote: December 26th, 2020, 4:41 pm Yeah the two main Battlestar Galactica shows (nobody's going to have Galactica 1980 on their list, are they? Caprica, maybe) are completely different animals, with the 2000s show being a re-working and re-imagining, with casts and creators almost completely different, and a totally different direction in the narrative. Just not the same at all.

The way I tend to think of the larger picture here when it comes to putting such series together as one entry, or long-delayed sequels (i.e. Twin Peaks) is, how do people in general watch these things, or think about them? I really doubt anybody thinks of the two BG shows as being the same thing, but a lot of people would say that TP is one show - same creative people and cast for the most part, and a continuation of the original series. Lots of people will watch one iteration of BG or another and maybe not bother with the others; almost anybody starting TP now is going to watch all three seasons. Some of this is common sense, isn't it? Then again we gotta argue over everything here... :lol:

Doctor Who is a little more problematic, with the newer series certainly a continuation in a sense, but also having a very different feel to them. I could go either way with that one but not having seen enough I'm also not very confident in my opinion.
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#104

Post by OldAle1 »

Oh I haven't watched all of it - only the first season and half of the second. Liked it quite a bit and it will probably deserve a place somewhere on my list, but it's one of those series where I really can't justify promoting it until I've seen more or all, and I've heard a fair amount of criticism about the later seasons, so I'm going to leave it off my list unfortunately. I do have the earlier series on the list, mostly for nostalgia's sake frankly, but it's clear that the later show supersedes it in nearly every respect. I mean I love 70s TV sci-fi but I could never make an argument to anybody who didn't grow up on it as to the brilliance of Logan's Run, Buck Rogers, The Six Million Dollar Man or Glen Larson's Mormons-in-space saga :lol:
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#105

Post by outdoorcats »

Then I guess it's still too soon for me to recommend The Expanse :lol: (which is more hard sci-fi, but scratches the same itch).

Personally, the last season of the BSG reboot was my favorite, but opinions are definitely divided!

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#106

Post by OldAle1 »

I watch very little TV, so, yeah... I think I will be watching more in the next year but my first projects (apart from re-watches) will be to finish off Cheers (Season 7 on it's way to my library right now) and Angel. Then maybe Battlestar Galactica and Babylon 5. And if I see all that in the coming year it'll be a miracle given that I'm going to keep watching lots of movies, hopefully read more, and maybe actually try to earn some money.

I kind of have the feeling that I could have a minority view like yours on BSG; I like the 6th and 7th seasons of Buffy more than a lot of people, probably most, and I feel that overall my TV opinions are a little askew from most.
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#107

Post by OldAle1 »

Guess I might as well post this now while it's on the mind, I don't think I'm likely to change it in the few remaining days.

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls094388985/

Top 20 ranked, 21-40 unranked. The second half of the list contains a lot of stuff where I've seen a smaller percentage of episodes but one thing this exercise has done for me is to get me to think more about what TV shows I want to finish off or at least watch more from. Thanks icm... and COVID!
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#108

Post by weirdboy »

I had no idea there was such a thing as a Logan's Run TV series.
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#109

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Battlestar Galactica 1978-1979 and 2004-2009 are definitely different series. (Battlestar Galactica 2003 is a mini btw).

Doctor Who 1963-1989 and 2005-> are also different series.

Twin Peaks I myself also see as one series, but for this poll Twin Peaks 1990-1991 and Twin Peaks 2017 count as separate entries. Unless there is general agreement they should count as one. I’m not going to make that decision solely.

Steins;Gate is a tv series.

Connection, I don’t know much about, but reading about it in wiki and IMDb to me sound like 3 different series. Of which only Connections 2 counts cause it has more than 16 episodes.
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#110

Post by Cocoa »

Ranked: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls082422028/

There are so many not-mini-series that have 16 episodes or less that I love, but I didn't want to spend time saying "Well, this tv series only have this many episodes BUT IT IS CLEARLY NOT A MINI-SERIES FOR X, Y, AND Z REASONS" so I just didn't include them on my list.
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#111

Post by lineuphere »

Well this list was a great deal of fun to make. :banana:

Ranked:
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls082696894/
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#113

Post by hurluberlu »

My list (ranked)
#JeSuisCharlie Liberté, Liberté chérie !

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#114

Post by AssonFire »

Ranked: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls082876291/

I've included Knowing Me, Knowing You with Alan Partridge in a similar way to how you're treating Blackadder. It has the same lead character over several distinct series, none of which (except one I've not seen) are 16 episodes or more.
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#115

Post by sol »

Former IMDb message boards user // iCM | IMDb | Letterboxd | My top 750 films // Long live the new flesh!
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#116

Post by mightysparks »

Bit of a mess, but here's mine (ranked): https://www.imdb.com/list/ls076913932/
"I do not always know what I want, but I do know what I don't want." - Stanley Kubrick

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#118

Post by Jimi Antiloop »

Oh yeah. Series.

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls082838626

Gravity Falls. - nobody?
:ICM: :letbxd: :Crtiticker: Reality Checks on :imdb:

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#119

Post by monclivie »

Jimi Antiloop wrote: December 31st, 2020, 3:19 pm Oh yeah. Series.

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls082838626

Gravity Falls. - nobody?
me :)
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#120

Post by Cocoa »

I love the first season of Gravity Falls. The second season is why I kept it off my list, probably would have included it if I expanded my list to a top 200 or so.
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