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Moderation and politics discussion

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AdamH
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#81

Post by AdamH »

I'll be honest, I'm always sad when a member quits the forum. That feeling is even stronger when it is a prominent member like Cocoa.

I am, however, a bit frustrated about this. It's frustrating, as an admin, when people don't say a word to me or other admins/mods about any issues they have on here, report 0 posts and show no obvious signs of having issues and then suddenly quit the forum without a word to us. We can't change things if we don't get told what the issues are. I also can't understand deleting an iCheckMovies account when we have no say in the running of iCheckMovies and that site exists for checking films, working through lists and keeping track of what you've watched. Your activity on that site really has no connection to any issues you have with this forum. That feels like a very unnecessary protest.

If people think there are racist or fascist posts on here, please report them or PM one of us. Please don't just quit the forum and disappear overnight. :(

I admit that we weren't very strong on dealing with reported posts a few years ago but we make much more effort on that front now to deal with any reported posts (there aren't many).
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#82

Post by St. Gloede »

I think we need to respect people's preferences in terms of how they use the forum.

As everyone appears to agree, some people just don't go well together - and I think it is preferable that these people simply do not interact (if that is their wish) rather than quitting or being unhappy.

I have never blocked anyone on this forum (though technically I can't/shouldn't, as I am a mod), but back in the early days there was quite a bit of abuse, and I certainly considered it. There were people, especially one person, here which would genuinely impact my wellbeing (as he was deadset on trying to ridicule me in threads regardless of topic), and in retrospect it would quite possibly have been better for my mental health if I blocked him. Blocking certain people can be genuinely good for someone's health, even in cases where the other person may not be malicious.

I would, of course, prefer it if everyone could get along, but as that is not always the case I am happy that people have this option, as it is a step beyond what we as mods can do in terms of making this place a good place to visit and talk about films (and anything else).

Just to be clear: We do not tolerate abuse of any kind. This forum was a very different place 10 years ago, and we have learned a lot from our early mistakes - including using ban and moderator approval - something we at first refused to do. The situation with the two posters in question would also never be allowed today. It scared people away from the forum, and was genuinely awful. If you feel someone is issuing abuse, harassment, etc. report it ASAP. We don't know if something is wrong unless you tell us.

Also, if you have any concerns beyond abuse, harassment, etc. do let us know if you feel something is wrong. We try to make this place as free as possible in terms of personal expression, but there are steps we can take to improve the overall experience better - and if we know something is an issue we will try to find a way to fix it.

The general purpose of this whole post: Message the moderator team. We are a fairly friendly bunch, and we always try to do better.
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#83

Post by hurluberlu »

I cant convince myself Cocoa left only because of the Politics board - maybe if he was insulted or harassed there but it doesn't seem to be the case (mods can ascertain this) and he could have otherwise ignored or avoided the threads or a few individuals and focused on films which is essentially what this forum is about. There must be other reasons that pushed him to leave, and delete his iCM account btw, let's not draw too quick conclusions.
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#84

Post by Torgo »

@hurluberlu
joachimt wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:42 pm
Pretentious Hipster wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:28 pm I'm 95% sure it was because of politics. I do feel guilty because I went way too hard at him at one point.
Make that 100.
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#85

Post by AdamH »

hurluberlu wrote: January 11th, 2021, 5:56 pm I cant convince myself Cocoa left only because of the Politics board - maybe if he was insulted or harassed there but it doesn't seem to be the case (mods can ascertain this) and he could have otherwise ignored or avoided the threads or a few individuals and focused on films which is essentially what this forum is about. There must be other reasons that pushed him to leave, and delete his iCM account btw, let's not draw too quick conclusions.
That isn't what Cocoa is saying but, yes, I understand your position. Deleting his iCM account along with quitting the forum is a pretty dramatic thing to do so there may be personal reasons involved that we are not aware of.
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#86

Post by Onderhond »

St. Gloede wrote: January 11th, 2021, 5:54 pm Blocking certain people can be genuinely good for someone's health, even in cases where the other person may not be malicious.
I can understand this in a free-for-all/unmoderated forum, I can also understand this as a short-term solution. Long term though, I think it will do more harm than good.

I find it quite uncomfortable that people are blocking others and aren't fully aware of the entire conversation. I guess making the blocks transparent (i.e. public) would go a long way to solve that, but I think I can predict the reaction to that :D
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#87

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

Onderhond wrote: January 11th, 2021, 6:07 pm
St. Gloede wrote: January 11th, 2021, 5:54 pm Blocking certain people can be genuinely good for someone's health, even in cases where the other person may not be malicious.
I can understand this in a free-for-all/unmoderated forum, I can also understand this as a short-term solution. Long term though, I think it will do more harm than good.
The ignore function is a core feature of every message board and it works out fine. And you can still view posts of people on ignore, it's just an extra click. It's not a big deal.
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#88

Post by AdamH »

On the football forum I use, I have a small number of users blocked. Primary reason is that I'm on the forum in my free time and for enjoyment. There are certain users who post the same point of view over and over again or there are reasons I have issues with their posts. I totally understand why people might block users and I think it can sometimes benefit the forum as it helps reduce needless conflicts. In practice, it doesn't tend to work so well as you can still see quoted posts. I don't think it means a person necessarily isn't willing to engage in discussions.
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#89

Post by Teproc »

Torgo wrote: January 11th, 2021, 5:22 pm Okay, so OldAle brought quite some (hi)story with him and that other person, which I won't judge here (because who would I be to do so?). Not saying that this case doesn't matter, but it's a pretty special situation and a total exception to the forum's norm .. or isn't it? :ermm:

Teproc wrote: January 11th, 2021, 2:21 pm Whatever you may say about bubbles, real life provides more than enough irritating behaviour and adversarial opinions that I don't need to get annoyed by people on the Internet. If this forum didn't have an ignore option, I would never come on here.
Excuse me if I'm getting too curious, but just upon looking up your user profile (without diving too deep into stalking territory), you joined in 2015 and have 45% of your posts in "Our lists and projects", as well as Challenges and stuff. At first glance, it looks highly unpolitical.
Have you still had encounters you deemed so annoying that you seriously considered leaving the forum, or which truly degraded your forum experience? Maybe even without getting into fights, but by reading alone.
Not implying you're a wimpy kid or something and also everyone has to decide for himself on how to get through the internet. It just seems so improbable to me, personally, to be enraged or annoyed simply by our list threads.
(But then again, I only participate in the <400 posts ..)
Yes, I find some people highly annoying even without stepping a foot in the political threads. I'm perhaps being a bit overdramatic in saying I would leave the forum if it didn't have an ignore function (which wouldn't happen anyway so whatever), but the reality is that I would probably eventually stop coming. In fact, though I've been a member since 2015, I've only recently become more involved, in large part because of the podcast because I honestly never found this forum to be all that welcoming. It depends on the people of course, and I'm not looking to start an argument, obviously it's much better than cesspools like the IMDB forums, but still. So I'm glad I get to pick and choose who I want to interact with. If Onderhond or whomever thinks that's bad for my personal development, I would kindly suggest that I'm the better judge of that, and the same holds true for anyone on the forum. The ignore function does no harm to anyone as long as we're not openly discussing who we are ignoring, so I think it is quite a useful tool for some (like OldAle and me) and a completely ignorable (hah) element of the forum for those who do not find it useful.
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#90

Post by OldAle1 »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: January 11th, 2021, 6:10 pm
Onderhond wrote: January 11th, 2021, 6:07 pm
St. Gloede wrote: January 11th, 2021, 5:54 pm Blocking certain people can be genuinely good for someone's health, even in cases where the other person may not be malicious.
I can understand this in a free-for-all/unmoderated forum, I can also understand this as a short-term solution. Long term though, I think it will do more harm than good.
The ignore function is a core feature of every message board and it works out fine. And you can still view posts of people on ignore, it's just an extra click. It's not a big deal.
Exactly. Every forum I've been on that HASN'T had an ignore function has been a disaster, unless it's had VERY heavy moderation, or just very few users (who happen to get along). There's a blog I follow that has no ignoring - not sure there's a way to do it there - but the admin aggressively deletes people pretty regularly, maybe at least once a week, because there are people who show up and attack or threaten him or other users, every day, or just post lies and nonsense (it's a science/politics blog). If he didn't wipe people out the blog would be totally unusable and would have died long ago.

In my experience most of the anti-ignore people have been very abrasive and aggressive users, or trolls themselves - people who wanted to force you to interact with them or, failing that, attack you behind your back so to speak. Most, mind you - I wouldn't put Onderhond or some others who are clearly against it here in that category (well, maybe the abrasive adjective works - and I know at least a couple of people find me abrasive, fair is fair). In any case there are always going to be bad apples or people who consistently post nonsense in informational threads (i.e. the COVID one) that could be harmful. And sometimes it doesn't go so far as to warrant reporting, let alone banning. To me ignore is a necessary intermediate step - I don't think I've ever reported anyone I've ignored, and the only people I have reported are somebody I suspect of being a troll with many accounts, and somebody else for completely outside-this-discussion issues.
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AdamH
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#91

Post by AdamH »

Teproc wrote: January 11th, 2021, 6:17 pm
Torgo wrote: January 11th, 2021, 5:22 pm Okay, so OldAle brought quite some (hi)story with him and that other person, which I won't judge here (because who would I be to do so?). Not saying that this case doesn't matter, but it's a pretty special situation and a total exception to the forum's norm .. or isn't it? :ermm:

Teproc wrote: January 11th, 2021, 2:21 pm Whatever you may say about bubbles, real life provides more than enough irritating behaviour and adversarial opinions that I don't need to get annoyed by people on the Internet. If this forum didn't have an ignore option, I would never come on here.
Excuse me if I'm getting too curious, but just upon looking up your user profile (without diving too deep into stalking territory), you joined in 2015 and have 45% of your posts in "Our lists and projects", as well as Challenges and stuff. At first glance, it looks highly unpolitical.
Have you still had encounters you deemed so annoying that you seriously considered leaving the forum, or which truly degraded your forum experience? Maybe even without getting into fights, but by reading alone.
Not implying you're a wimpy kid or something and also everyone has to decide for himself on how to get through the internet. It just seems so improbable to me, personally, to be enraged or annoyed simply by our list threads.
(But then again, I only participate in the <400 posts ..)
Yes, I find some people highly annoying even without stepping a foot in the political threads. I'm perhaps being a bit overdramatic in saying I would leave the forum if it didn't have an ignore function (which wouldn't happen anyway so whatever), but the reality is that I would probably eventually stop coming. In fact, though I've been a member since 2015, I've only recently become more involved, in large part because of the podcast because I honestly never found this forum to be all that welcoming. It depends on the people of course, and I'm not looking to start an argument, obviously it's much better than cesspools like the IMDB forums, but still. So I'm glad I get to pick and choose who I want to interact with. If Onderhond or whomever thinks that's bad for my personal development, I would kindly suggest that I'm the better judge of that, and the same holds true for anyone on the forum. The ignore function does no harm to anyone as long as we're not openly discussing who we are ignoring, so I think it is quite a useful tool for some (like OldAle and me) and a completely ignorable (hah) element of the forum for those who do not find it useful.
What made you think it wasn't welcoming?
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#92

Post by Teproc »

As I said I don't want to have a whole debate about that, it seems many people do find this to be a very welcoming place (I know sol has said as much for example), so maybe it's just me, but there is a difference between having a strong opinion and being dismissive of other opinions, and I did feel - at least when I first came to this forum - that many people here were doing more of the latter. Again, maybe just me, and now that I know some of you better I've found the forum to be a much more pleasant experience, and I'm not suggesting for anything to change as it's just my personal taste and has very little to do with the subject at hand which seems to be more about the off-topic and specifically political threads, so there.
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#93

Post by kongs_speech »

I felt very welcome when I got here. A good friend invited me, and then I found out a bunch of old FG people are here too, so that probably helped. I wouldn't say that I've really had any huge issues here with people, certainly not compared to other forums. Some of Armoreska's politics are reprehensible, but he hasn't been horrible to me or anything. I don't really know her, but I didn't like RBG's aggression in the Rest in Peace thread when I never insulted her once (though others did, in all fairness). Still, these are very minor issues by forum standards. However, there are many people who have been around much longer than I and have clearly experienced significant issues, so I speak only from my own experience and am in no way denying or downplaying anyone else's.
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#94

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

This forum was somewhat different in 2015. I don't think it was particularly unwelcoming, but I definitely know what Teproc means. And even now I think we can do better. Moderation is a balancing act and we don't always get it right, but I think over time we've become more practical instead of idealistic and that has helped.
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#95

Post by xianjiro »

Onderhond wrote: January 11th, 2021, 2:10 pm
OldAle1 wrote: January 11th, 2021, 1:59 pm
Onderhond wrote: January 11th, 2021, 1:28 pm Honestly: that ignore option should be disabled.
Good way to get me to cancel my account immediately.
That would be a shame, but it's better to learn to live with others than to get lost in your own echo chamber.
I don't ignore anyone here (wouldn't even know how to) and I have no idea which posts could be considered so bad that they are better left unseen.
Well, to be fair, I've only used it a few times, on people who simply were too consistently toxic. I think it's a valuable tool that members can use when needed and even undo after some time (yes, I've removed people as well). I also don't generally make it known when I use/unuse ignore.

No one forces anyone to ignore other users and who knows, some users might ignore a user who's always posting about MCU movies in a thread about experimental film or something like that. It isn't just about politics.
Last edited by xianjiro on January 11th, 2021, 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#96

Post by Torgo »

Teproc wrote: January 11th, 2021, 6:30 pm so maybe it's just me, but there is a difference between having a strong opinion and being dismissive of other opinions, and I did feel - at least when I first came to this forum - that many people here were doing more of the latter. Again, maybe just me
Let me tell you that as a 10-year-user of the site, I know what you mean and I too felt this atmosphere to be quite present 5 years ago. So it's not only you.
Sometimes, the negativity threatened to kill a fruitful spark of discussion. Because how much do you want to involve in conversations and maybe expose yourself if you feel worse afterwards?
Anyway, my impression is that the overall tone now is friendlier (around the film posts, at least). Some people left, some people changed (to the better), new people came along.
Spoiler
Or I'm just ignorant to see that it's the same as in 2015 and just need a place to hang around during Covid lockdown with at least a few of people I recognize. :lol:
The thing is that even this, dunno, more aggressive tone is tough to moderate, so I'm far from blaming the moderators for this. It's a community of different persons, all of whom are adult beings, so we're not free of responsibility on how to behave here.
To top it off: you can safely say that most of our users aren't just casual film fans, but geeks, cineasts, snobs, hardcore film freaks. This might very well come together with a more introvert/extrovert or obsessive kind of personality. Having debates under such circumstances should naturally be more challenging than having a forum about cake recipes, fashion or, um, the weather.
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#97

Post by Torgo »

xianjiro wrote: January 11th, 2021, 6:46 pm a user who's always posting about MCU movies in a thread about experimental film or something like that
Avengers Infinity War > all of Brakhage CHANGE MY MIND
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#98

Post by xianjiro »

OldAle1 wrote: January 11th, 2021, 3:24 pm Sorry that was so long but this is something I feel strongly about. I've never seen a forum that I considered healthy that didn't have fairly strong moderation and an ability for people to keep away from others they consider abusive.
wait - I think your prior post (too long to quote) is almost the best reason NOT to ignore a troll. LOL While I totally get where you are coming from, such a toxic personality should be banned, not ignored.

I'm thankful that it's not been anything like that bad here (while I've been active though there was one user who started down that road before being banned fully as I remember)! Annoying yes, at times, and we know in which threads. ;)

BTW, that story totally confirms all my suspicions on why IMDb shut down it's message boards. I trust and hope our mod team never let's it get that out of hand. An excellent cautionary tale - thank goodness you survived though clearly it wasn't unscathed! :hug:
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#99

Post by xianjiro »

AdamH wrote: January 11th, 2021, 5:53 pm I'll be honest, I'm always sad when a member quits the forum. That feeling is even stronger when it is a prominent member like Cocoa.

I am, however, a bit frustrated about this. It's frustrating, as an admin, when people don't say a word to me or other admins/mods about any issues they have on here, report 0 posts and show no obvious signs of having issues and then suddenly quit the forum without a word to us. We can't change things if we don't get told what the issues are. I also can't understand deleting an iCheckMovies account when we have no say in the running of iCheckMovies and that site exists for checking films, working through lists and keeping track of what you've watched. Your activity on that site really has no connection to any issues you have with this forum. That feels like a very unnecessary protest.

If people think there are racist or fascist posts on here, please report them or PM one of us. Please don't just quit the forum and disappear overnight. :(

I admit that we weren't very strong on dealing with reported posts a few years ago but we make much more effort on that front now to deal with any reported posts (there aren't many).
Well, to be quite frank Adam, I did report a "racist" (not the best term, but certainly the easiest to use for illustration here) post or two and the reports were closed without comment. That didn't particularly instill much trust and I chose to ignore the poster and leave the thread. However, that happened before the mod team pledged to do better with such reports and I've not seen anything that I knew rose to the same level since.

The only times since I've felt clearly comfortable reporting has been the occasional spam - you know, "ads" for sneakers written entirely in Italian and the like. Those have been cleared fairly well.

There was a recent exchange that I considered but chose not to report since 1) the two users clearly have "bad blood" and 2) the exchange flared and died rather quickly - like 5 posts max and 3) I thought both users quite capable of reporting the other if they felt sufficiently aggrieved. While I don't like to go to STFU, I get that it has it's place used sparingly and not everyone can always be diplomatic in their very real anger. So if their exchange bordered on that, didn't pull anyone else in, etc - I figure it's like two coworkers having a bad day in the office. Once in a blue moon, no big deal. It happens. Move on. Nothing to see here folks.
Last edited by xianjiro on January 11th, 2021, 7:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#100

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

xianjiro wrote: January 11th, 2021, 7:19 pm Well, to be quite frank Adam, I did report a "racist" (not the best term, but certainly the easiest to use for illustration here) post or two and the reports were closed without comment. That didn't particularly instill much trust and I chose to use ignore the poster and leave the thread. However, that happened before the mod team pledged to do better with such reports and I've not seen anything that I knew rose to the same level since.
Yeah, there are posts we let go before which we wouldn't let go now. I don't recall who reported what, so I don't know which posts you mean, but I do recall several posts that I regret not acting on.
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#101

Post by AdamH »

Looking back to November, Cocoa said this: "You are questioning the "lived experience" of a Black and Asian American. I barely check the politics threads on here because of the subtle racism done by sealions in the threads, but this was such an obvious bad take."

I replied saying "Please report anything inappropriate. I don't have time to read all threads and have never been active in political threads due to the trolling. They are the only threads that I really feel bring down the quality of the forum."

As far as I'm aware, he never reported anything.

I guess we, as an admin/mod team, will need to start monitoring the political threads closely.
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#102

Post by AdamH »

@xianjiro, ever since an incident a while back, we've dealt with every single reported post and deleted most of them as far as I'm aware. Apologies for any issues before then. There are still very, very few reported posts.
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#103

Post by AdamH »

Cocoa's issues with the political thread appear to be back in November. I don't remember anything being reported then. From what I can tell, he then avoided the political threads. I'm not sure what happened to make him suddenly leave as his recent posts show no signs of him wanting to quit. Perhaps he read another political thread without posting.
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#104

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

Yea that was indeed a controversial take, but I think the context of it was the internalized racism done by said politician.

It was KHive vs Bernie Bros, and if I've seen anything like it on the internet it was always among the most toxic I've seen. I've seen a case of reporting mothers of the other side to social workers saying they are abusive to their children.
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#105

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

AdamH wrote: January 11th, 2021, 7:32 pm Cocoa's issues with the political thread appear to be back in November. I don't remember anything being reported then. From what I can tell, he then avoided the political threads. I'm not sure what happened to make him suddenly leave as his recent posts show no signs of him wanting to quit. Perhaps he read another political thread without posting.
I'm guessing it's not necessarily what happened in the thread, but perhaps the hopelessness caused by the recent issue on Capitol Hill. It was the only event happened around the same time as him leaving. Like I've said before, he would have left from direct contact it would have been done right after that direct contact happened.
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#106

Post by xianjiro »

AdamH wrote: January 11th, 2021, 7:26 pm @xianjiro, ever since an incident a while back, we've dealt with every single reported post and deleted most of them as far as I'm aware. Apologies for any issues before then. There are still very, very few reported posts.
absolutely and no problem
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#107

Post by xianjiro »

AdamH wrote: January 11th, 2021, 7:32 pm Cocoa's issues with the political thread appear to be back in November. I don't remember anything being reported then. From what I can tell, he then avoided the political threads. I'm not sure what happened to make him suddenly leave as his recent posts show no signs of him wanting to quit. Perhaps he read another political thread without posting.
I remember that post and immediately thought of it when I read Cocoa had left. But the message was clear: I can't stand this kind of stuff and won't be returning to this thread. I thought it a shame, but adults can choose what they want and don't want to read. If I remember correctly, I did think it a bit of an over-reaction even though I'm clearly of a like mind. Thus why I was so surprised when I read what touched off this discussion.
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#108

Post by AdamH »

I looked back to June 2020 and, excluding reports about double posts/pinning topics, random spammers (i.e. users who come for 1 post and disappear again) etc. there have only been a small number of reports.

1) Post deleted
2) No action taken (related to argument between post report 1 & post report 2)
3) User banned from section
4) Post deleted

I can see, before then, that we weren't so good at taking action but it has changed since then at least. My main point, however, is for all the talk of issues on here we've had four reports (relating to actual issues with posts rather than wrong sections, pinning, random spammers etc.) in 7 months so we do need the help of users in reporting posts.
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#109

Post by Lammetje »

I am glad to have the ignore function available to me. Users can be annoying in numerous ways even without having to break any forum rules.

May I suggest a new thread for this (important) discussion about ignoring, reporting and moderation in general? And can a mod please move the relevant posts to the new thread?
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OldAle1 wrote:I think four Aamir Khan films is enough for me. Unless I'm down to one film left on the IMDb Top 250 at some point and he's in that last film, at which point I'll watch it and then shoot myself having become the official-check-whoring person I hate.
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Pretentious Hipster
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#110

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

AdamH wrote: January 11th, 2021, 7:48 pm I looked back to June 2020 and, excluding reports about double posts/pinning topics, random spammers (i.e. users who come for 1 post and disappear again) etc. there have only been a small number of reports.

1) Post deleted
2) No action taken (related to argument between post report 1 & post report 2)
3) User banned from section
4) Post deleted

I can see, before then, that we weren't so good at taking action but it has changed since then at least. My main point, however, is for all the talk of issues on here we've had four reports in 7 months so we do need the help of users in reporting posts.
We'll have to establish some ground rules over what constitutes a reportable offence or not. I assume the bigoted posts aren't allowed which is obvious, but what level of personal attacks? I guess disagreements that reach the level of ad hominem?
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xianjiro
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#111

Post by xianjiro »

Time to do some digging.
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#112

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

xianjiro wrote: January 11th, 2021, 7:51 pm Time to do some digging.
Definitely my post to Cocoa calling him a fascist. I edited it out after apologizing but I think there's still 1-2 posts quoting it.
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#113

Post by OldAle1 »

xianjiro wrote: January 11th, 2021, 7:19 pm

There was a recent exchange that I considered but chose not to report since 1) the two users clearly have "bad blood" and 2) the exchange flared and died rather quickly - like 5 posts max and 3) I thought both users quite capable of reporting the other if they felt sufficiently aggrieved. While I don't like to go to STFU, I get that it has it's place used sparingly and not everyone can always be diplomatic in their very real anger. So if their exchange bordered on that, didn't pull anyone else in, etc - I figure it's like two coworkers having a bad day in the office. Once in a blue moon, no big deal. It happens. Move on. Nothing to see here folks.
Was that the one a few months ago on.. I think a rankdown thread.. where I told cinewest to fuck off? It certainly could have been, and honestly I expected some admonishment or to have that post deleted, after I thought about it for a few minutes.
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#114

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

Pretentious Hipster wrote: January 11th, 2021, 7:50 pm
AdamH wrote: January 11th, 2021, 7:48 pm I looked back to June 2020 and, excluding reports about double posts/pinning topics, random spammers (i.e. users who come for 1 post and disappear again) etc. there have only been a small number of reports.

1) Post deleted
2) No action taken (related to argument between post report 1 & post report 2)
3) User banned from section
4) Post deleted

I can see, before then, that we weren't so good at taking action but it has changed since then at least. My main point, however, is for all the talk of issues on here we've had four reports in 7 months so we do need the help of users in reporting posts.
We'll have to establish some ground rules over what constitutes a reportable offence or not. I assume the bigoted posts aren't allowed which is obvious, but what level of personal attacks? I guess disagreements that reach the level of ad hominem?
We are going to be moving the politics threads to a dedicated subforum with stronger and clearer rules. We're still discussing the specifics, but we will be stricter than we have been. I also expect that rules may adapt over time if we're still not satisfied with how things are going.
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#115

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 »

OldAle1 wrote: January 11th, 2021, 3:22 pm Now when they closed the forums of course those people (like me) that were regulars all migrated to other platforms (like this one). The two IMDb trolls I just mentioned had lots of support from people - including somebody who has since become a regular here. This particular person always comes off as a nice, polite person, but he always loved to interact with even the worst people on IMDb, as long as they weren't insulting or using nasty language (and again, trolls had multiple accounts, and often would have a "nice" one that was less abrasive and overtly insulting, which wasn't hard to figure out if you were paying attention); either he is terribly naive, the kind of person who thinks you're not a racist if you don't use the n-word, or dissembling in his behavior. Because anybody on those forums as much as he or I were could see that these same people kept coming back, changing their names, and attacking me and others, over and over, trying to get us wiped out, and in the case of the first IMDb troll I mentioned, trying to wipe out the forums altogether; he had in fact nearly destroyed a forum devoted to chess before moving on to IMDb. This same troll-sympathizer now on this forum also said a lot of pretty reactionary things over the 5 years or more I've "known" him (like being against gay marriage just because "tradition"), and apparently still thinks our current fascist Pres is a good guy. So though I gave him the benefit of the doubt after joining this forum - and frankly over time sort of forgot about some of the bad stuff from IMDb - I have to say I consider him a very bad actor, at the best like I said hopelessly naive, at worst a terrible bigot and supporter of abusive assholes. Because "free speech", y'know? Well, I'm not interested in his particular conception of free speech, and I'm not interested in reading anything he has to say anymore, even if he does have good taste in movies. The whole picture is important.
I 've been thinking about these comments a lot this afternoon/evening and I just want to take the opportunity to humbly apologise for the eagerness with which I interacted with certain posters back in the IMDb message board days. I could, and probably should, have been more judicious and wise in whom I engaged with. I have to acknowledge that. I'm sorry for the the hurt I might have caused with my rather ill-judged behaviour. It didn't come from a position of wishing to be nasty or mean-spirited.
That's all, folks!
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#116

Post by joachimt »

AdamH wrote: January 11th, 2021, 7:32 pm Cocoa's issues with the political thread appear to be back in November. I don't remember anything being reported then. From what I can tell, he then avoided the political threads. I'm not sure what happened to make him suddenly leave as his recent posts show no signs of him wanting to quit. Perhaps he read another political thread without posting.
I don't know which recent posts were the thing that pushed him over the edge, but it had to do with the recent happenings at the US capitol.
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#117

Post by kongs_speech »

I will say that I was genuinely angry and uncomfortable with some of the "lol it's not a big deal" posts from people who live on other continents. If you're not actively dealing with the toxicity of Trumpism every day, you don't really understand the issue and should be careful when voicing an opinion. While perhaps less insidious in nature, it's the same basic concept as mansplaining sexual assault or telling black people that racism doesn't exist.
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#118

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

kongs_speech wrote: January 11th, 2021, 8:49 pm I will say that I was genuinely angry and uncomfortable with some of the "lol it's not a big deal" posts from people who live on other continents. If you're not actively dealing with the toxicity of Trumpism every day, you don't really understand the issue and should be careful when voicing an opinion. While perhaps less insidious in nature, it's the same basic concept as mansplaining sexual assault or telling black people that racism doesn't exist.
Tbf the cynic in me sees it as a taste of their own medicine kind of thing. 2 and potentially 3 international coups were done under Trump's presidency and a few brushed those off but complain about this one. Still, a president doing a coup at his own country might be a first.
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#119

Post by OldAle1 »

kongs_speech wrote: January 11th, 2021, 8:49 pm I will say that I was genuinely angry and uncomfortable with some of the "lol it's not a big deal" posts from people who live on other continents. If you're not actively dealing with the toxicity of Trumpism every day, you don't really understand the issue and should be careful when voicing an opinion. While perhaps less insidious in nature, it's the same basic concept as mansplaining sexual assault or telling black people that racism doesn't exist.
Yes. But I think some people are also from places that are, or have recently been, worse than the USA politically, have worse human rights records than the Trump admin, and so they think, eh, you're not so badly off. And maybe deep down they're thinking 'you deserve this you shits, to go through what we've gone through" or in some cases, "to go through something like what your country has done to us". I mean, if we had any progressive Iranian or Filipino posters here for example I would not be surprised to see them say you reap what you sow, and maybe that's justified. That still doesn't make it kosher to say "oh who cares fuck u Amerikkka" IMO, and I don't think I'd personally say it to, say, a British person if something similar happened in London tomorrow, but I can understand the sentiments.
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#120

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

Pretentious Hipster wrote: January 11th, 2021, 8:55 pm Still, a president doing a coup at his own country might be a first.
It isn't.
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