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Moderation and politics discussion

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Moderation and politics discussion

#1

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

I'm 95% sure it was because of politics. I do feel guilty because I went way too hard at him at one point.
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#2

Post by OldAle1 »

Oh, he was the guy I was trying to remember who lived in Chicago. Dammit. Yeah, he definitely took things hard when it came to politics - like many of us, myself included. Don't know if that would have been it though, I think his last post on politics was a few weeks ago. But if that it I don't blame him, it's difficult even on a forum like this with lots of regulation and few really extreme people. I was watching a YT video yesterday on something not generally politics-related from a guy who I *suspected* was kind of right wing, and had it confirmed in a big way. Sorry bud, you lost a potential subscriber. So if that's it, well I think it's too bad, there aren't many forums he (it is he isn't it, don't want to be insensitive as to that or anything else) could be on where there's less Trumpery.

But maybe it's something else entirely. Anyway best of luck Cocoa.
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#3

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

OldAle1 wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:34 pm Oh, he was the guy I was trying to remember who lived in Chicago. Dammit. Yeah, he definitely took things hard when it came to politics - like many of us, myself included. Don't know if that would have been it though, I think his last post on politics was a few weeks ago. But if that it I don't blame him, it's difficult even on a forum like this with lots of regulation and few really extreme people. I was watching a YT video yesterday on something not generally politics-related from a guy who I *suspected* was kind of right wing, and had it confirmed in a big way. Sorry bud, you lost a potential subscriber. So if that's it, well I think it's too bad, there aren't many forums he (it is he isn't it, don't want to be insensitive as to that or anything else) could be on where there's less Trumpery.

But maybe it's something else entirely. Anyway best of luck Cocoa.
It was actually the leftists (among myself) that went the hardest on him instead of the right wing. He was a centrist liberal. I am frankly still mad about one take he said that triggered lots of anger in me, but I definitely should have controlled myself more.
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#4

Post by OldAle1 »

Pretentious Hipster wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:37 pm
OldAle1 wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:34 pm Oh, he was the guy I was trying to remember who lived in Chicago. Dammit. Yeah, he definitely took things hard when it came to politics - like many of us, myself included. Don't know if that would have been it though, I think his last post on politics was a few weeks ago. But if that it I don't blame him, it's difficult even on a forum like this with lots of regulation and few really extreme people. I was watching a YT video yesterday on something not generally politics-related from a guy who I *suspected* was kind of right wing, and had it confirmed in a big way. Sorry bud, you lost a potential subscriber. So if that's it, well I think it's too bad, there aren't many forums he (it is he isn't it, don't want to be insensitive as to that or anything else) could be on where there's less Trumpery.

But maybe it's something else entirely. Anyway best of luck Cocoa.
It was actually the leftists (among myself) that went the hardest on him instead of the right wing. He was a centrist liberal. I am frankly still mad about one take he said that triggered lots of anger in me, but I definitely should have controlled myself more.
Ah ok. I can see that POV also. I stayed away from the politics discussions for a good 6 months or more myself because it seemed at the point where most people were agreeing that there wasn't a smidgeon of difference between the best Democrats and the worst Republicans. It's tiresome when you live in a place and know what effect politics and politicians are actually having on your country, only to have a bunch of Europeans and Canadians say, "Trump, Bernie, FDR, Nixon? All facists, all the same, fuck 'em all". Makes you think they hate all Americans, period (which I do think is true of several members here).
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#5

Post by joachimt »

Pretentious Hipster wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:28 pm I'm 95% sure it was because of politics. I do feel guilty because I went way too hard at him at one point.
Make that 100.
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#6

Post by kongs_speech »

OldAle1 wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:41 pm
Ah ok. I can see that POV also. I stayed away from the politics discussions for a good 6 months or more myself because it seemed at the point where most people were agreeing that there wasn't a smidgeon of difference between the best Democrats and the worst Republicans. It's tiresome when you live in a place and know what effect politics and politicians are actually having on your country, only to have a bunch of Europeans and Canadians say, "Trump, Bernie, FDR, Nixon? All facists, all the same, fuck 'em all". Makes you think they hate all Americans, period (which I do think is true of several members here).
Just chiming in to say that I couldn't agree more with this. There has been so much bullshit in the US Politics thread, especially in the past week.
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#7

Post by xianjiro »

joachimt wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:42 pm
Pretentious Hipster wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:28 pm I'm 95% sure it was because of politics. I do feel guilty because I went way too hard at him at one point.
Make that 100.
well, that seems odd to me. have the forum mods been alerted?
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#8

Post by xianjiro »

kongs_speech wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:51 pm
OldAle1 wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:41 pm
Ah ok. I can see that POV also. I stayed away from the politics discussions for a good 6 months or more myself because it seemed at the point where most people were agreeing that there wasn't a smidgeon of difference between the best Democrats and the worst Republicans. It's tiresome when you live in a place and know what effect politics and politicians are actually having on your country, only to have a bunch of Europeans and Canadians say, "Trump, Bernie, FDR, Nixon? All facists, all the same, fuck 'em all". Makes you think they hate all Americans, period (which I do think is true of several members here).
Just chiming in to say that I couldn't agree more with this. There has been so much bullshit in the US Politics thread, especially in the past week.
:ermm: someone clearly missed another user's "reign of insanity" - this past week has been a cake walk
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#9

Post by kongs_speech »

xianjiro wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:53 pm
kongs_speech wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:51 pm
OldAle1 wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:41 pm
Ah ok. I can see that POV also. I stayed away from the politics discussions for a good 6 months or more myself because it seemed at the point where most people were agreeing that there wasn't a smidgeon of difference between the best Democrats and the worst Republicans. It's tiresome when you live in a place and know what effect politics and politicians are actually having on your country, only to have a bunch of Europeans and Canadians say, "Trump, Bernie, FDR, Nixon? All facists, all the same, fuck 'em all". Makes you think they hate all Americans, period (which I do think is true of several members here).
Just chiming in to say that I couldn't agree more with this. There has been so much bullshit in the US Politics thread, especially in the past week.
:ermm: someone clearly missed another user's "reign of insanity" - this past week has been a cake walk
I know I've seen some really horrible shit from Armoreska, if that's what you're referring to. People hate Cipp's politics, I'm aware of that, but I haven't seen enough from him on that subject to really know about it personally.
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#10

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

kongs_speech wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:54 pm
xianjiro wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:53 pm
kongs_speech wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:51 pm

Just chiming in to say that I couldn't agree more with this. There has been so much bullshit in the US Politics thread, especially in the past week.
:ermm: someone clearly missed another user's "reign of insanity" - this past week has been a cake walk
I know I've seen some really horrible shit from Armoreska, if that's what you're referring to. People hate Cipp's politics, I'm aware of that, but I haven't seen enough from him on that subject to really know about it personally.
Yea with Cipp and allison that thread in 2016 was a shitshow.
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#11

Post by kongs_speech »

Was he attacking allison or is she conservative too? I haven't gotten that vibe from her, she seems cool and I don't know of many right-wing vegans, so I assume you meant the former.
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#12

Post by Coryn »

kongs_speech wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:51 pm
OldAle1 wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:41 pm
Ah ok. I can see that POV also. I stayed away from the politics discussions for a good 6 months or more myself because it seemed at the point where most people were agreeing that there wasn't a smidgeon of difference between the best Democrats and the worst Republicans. It's tiresome when you live in a place and know what effect politics and politicians are actually having on your country, only to have a bunch of Europeans and Canadians say, "Trump, Bernie, FDR, Nixon? All facists, all the same, fuck 'em all". Makes you think they hate all Americans, period (which I do think is true of several members here).
Just chiming in to say that I couldn't agree more with this. There has been so much bullshit in the US Politics thread, especially in the past week.
As someone who roams a lot of forums it is insane to me how politics take over and divide a country as big as the USA. I never get into a discussion with anyone about it because I am simply not educated enough about the subject, but from reading stuff online it just seems like people are obsessed with the choice they made, blue or red.

Let's take Belgium or The Netherlands for example, We have over 20 parties you can choose from, now and then you have the occassional lunatic who starts defending his political choice online but other than that it's your own choice and there's no fanbase (because that's what it is) involved around it. It often feels like US forum users are supporting their favorite football or basketball team and there are only 2 leagues in the world, if one team wins the other team and all its supporters get to live in hell for 4 years.

Us Europeans and other continents are just trying to filter out all the stupid stuff going on over there, at first it was funny but it's getting really tiring.

:shrug:
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#13

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

kongs_speech wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:58 pm Was he attacking allison or is she conservative too? I haven't gotten that vibe from her, she seems cool and I don't know of many right-wing vegans, so I assume you meant the former.
She was just very anti-hillary.
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#14

Post by kongs_speech »

Pretentious Hipster wrote: January 10th, 2021, 9:00 pm
kongs_speech wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:58 pm Was he attacking allison or is she conservative too? I haven't gotten that vibe from her, she seems cool and I don't know of many right-wing vegans, so I assume you meant the former.
She was just very anti-hillary.
Oh, yikes. I like her, but I can't get behind that at all, especially with the benefit of four years of hindsight. I would much rather have Bernie than either Hillary or Biden, but we have to be realistic. I do believe we'll be there someday, but that day hasn't come yet. It was incredibly obvious that Hillary was better than Trump. One was a career politician who has done some good things and some shitty things too. The other was a known racist, admitted sexual predator, out-of-control egotist and terrible businessman.
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#15

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

xianjiro wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:51 pm
joachimt wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:42 pm
Pretentious Hipster wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:28 pm I'm 95% sure it was because of politics. I do feel guilty because I went way too hard at him at one point.
Make that 100.
well, that seems odd to me. have the forum mods been alerted?
If my understanding is right the he left because of frustration not because of harassment, so I'm not sure what we should be alerted about. If he wanted us to do something he's free to contact us. I'm certainly not happy to hear this, and I'm sure the others aren't either. If you have a suggestion we'd be happy to hear it.
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#16

Post by joachimt »

xianjiro wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:51 pm
joachimt wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:42 pm
Pretentious Hipster wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:28 pm I'm 95% sure it was because of politics. I do feel guilty because I went way too hard at him at one point.
Make that 100.
well, that seems odd to me. have the forum mods been alerted?
No, he only told me. He didn't feel like posting about it in the open or talk to a mod. I'll talk to Adam.

Btw, I never read the politics topics, so I have no idea what's going on there (although I have some vague ideas of course).
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#17

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: January 10th, 2021, 9:06 pm
xianjiro wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:51 pm
joachimt wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:42 pm
Make that 100.
well, that seems odd to me. have the forum mods been alerted?
If my understanding is right the he left because of frustration not because of harassment, so I'm not sure what we should be alerted about. If he wanted us to do something he's free to contact us. I'm certainly not happy to hear this, and I'm sure the others aren't either. If you have a suggestion we'd be happy to hear it.
Yea I should have been reported for my meltdown tbh but the damage has already been done and there's no point in doing it now.
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#18

Post by kongs_speech »

Coryn wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:58 pm There are only 2 leagues in the world, if one team wins the other team and all its supporters get to live in hell for 4 years.
Unfortunately, for those of us who are Democrats and/or leftists, that is unironically true. The last four years have proven that. Trump and the GOP have aggressively persecuted us for every single day of his miserable presidency. Look at how much hate Obama got from Fox News and right-wingers while he was in office. He rarely even addressed it, because while he did make some mistakes on certain policy issues, he has dignity and isn't a pathetic little pissbaby manchild. The difference between the left's hate for the right and the right's hate for the left is that the far right are actually guilty of the shit we accuse them of. We, for the most part, believe in facts and reason. The left wants to help people. The right most assuredly does not.
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#19

Post by xianjiro »

kongs_speech wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:54 pm
xianjiro wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:53 pm
kongs_speech wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:51 pm

Just chiming in to say that I couldn't agree more with this. There has been so much bullshit in the US Politics thread, especially in the past week.
:ermm: someone clearly missed another user's "reign of insanity" - this past week has been a cake walk
I know I've seen some really horrible shit from Armoreska, if that's what you're referring to. People hate Cipp's politics, I'm aware of that, but I haven't seen enough from him on that subject to really know about it personally.
I am in no way referring to Armoreska.

It goes way farther than hating the other's politics. Just start reading the US Politics at page one and see how far you get before you understand.

That's all I'm saying publicly on the matter.
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#20

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Can we please not turn this into a politics thread too :(
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#21

Post by xianjiro »

kongs_speech wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:58 pm Was he attacking allison or is she conservative too? I haven't gotten that vibe from her, she seems cool and I don't know of many right-wing vegans, so I assume you meant the former.
I would describe her as a hardcore Bernie Believer. They both were vehemently against Hillary and oddly posted very similar messages against her. Again, it's all in the thread and it doesn't need to be rehashed here.

But she decided to stop posting in the thread and I believe only returned once to share something with Knalds and me.
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#22

Post by kongs_speech »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: January 10th, 2021, 9:09 pm Can we please not turn this into a politics thread too :(
Yeah, sorry. :$
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#23

Post by xianjiro »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: January 10th, 2021, 9:06 pm
xianjiro wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:51 pm
joachimt wrote: January 10th, 2021, 8:42 pm
Make that 100.
well, that seems odd to me. have the forum mods been alerted?
If my understanding is right the he left because of frustration not because of harassment, so I'm not sure what we should be alerted about. If he wanted us to do something he's free to contact us. I'm certainly not happy to hear this, and I'm sure the others aren't either. If you have a suggestion we'd be happy to hear it.
I agree that we don't need to turn this thread political and I've tried to address the "questions" succinctly without dredging too much up.

By alerted, and other than the impact on FotW, I mostly meant that you guys should at least know about it and why. I have no information nor is it really my business. The Mod team are best able to evaluate any concerns raised.
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#24

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

I mean we genuinely would like suggestions, because he's not the first to leave because of that thread and it's frustrating to lose good posters because of it. I just don't have an answer other than to lock those threads.
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#25

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: January 10th, 2021, 9:19 pm I mean we genuinely would like suggestions, because he's not the first to leave because of that thread and it's frustrating to lose good posters because of it. I just don't have an answer other than to lock those threads.
Yea I could see that being the only option. Reporting can do some good things, but I imagine a lot of reporting might come down to "I don't agree with this take" which will make too much work for the mods.
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#26

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

Only flaw is that it's pretty much the only place I post here as I barely watch anymore movies, except for the rare music or video game post, so I'll be a lot less active, or even just leave. Maybe it'll be a good way for me to see some films again though lol
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#27

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

Pretentious Hipster wrote: January 10th, 2021, 9:21 pm
PeacefulAnarchy wrote: January 10th, 2021, 9:19 pm I mean we genuinely would like suggestions, because he's not the first to leave because of that thread and it's frustrating to lose good posters because of it. I just don't have an answer other than to lock those threads.
Yea I could see that being the only option. Reporting can do some good things, but I imagine a lot of reporting might come down to "I don't agree with this take" which will make too much work for the mods.
We get like one report every couple of months. I wouldn't mind more reports, but we'd have to make rules for the threads that we can enforce consistently.
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#28

Post by Coryn »

I personally think there's enough places to discuss politics other than here.
Seeing as you can't visit one webpage anymore without talk about democrats or republicans it would be a nice change to find a forum which doesn't look at a user being red or blue.

I'm only looking at it from a user perspective as losing active users on here is the last thing we want.
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#29

Post by kongs_speech »

I don't really see this forum as a "safe space," so I think a political thread should exist. It would be pretty lame to tell a group of adults, nearly all of whom are in our late 20s or older, that we can't discuss politics at all. It should probably be more regulated than it is, yes, but ultimately, if someone chooses to leave, that's their choice.
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#30

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

Coryn wrote: January 10th, 2021, 9:32 pm I personally think there's enough places to discuss politics other than here.
Seeing as you can't visit one webpage anymore without talk about democrats or republicans it would be a nice change to find a forum which doesn't look at a user being red or blue.

I'm only looking at it from a user perspective as losing active users on here is the last thing we want.
A gaming forum I go on actually had to ban politics. A user was doxxed by another and harassed over the phone at work. At that point they realized they had to stop.
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#31

Post by xianjiro »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: January 10th, 2021, 9:27 pm
Pretentious Hipster wrote: January 10th, 2021, 9:21 pm
PeacefulAnarchy wrote: January 10th, 2021, 9:19 pm I mean we genuinely would like suggestions, because he's not the first to leave because of that thread and it's frustrating to lose good posters because of it. I just don't have an answer other than to lock those threads.
Yea I could see that being the only option. Reporting can do some good things, but I imagine a lot of reporting might come down to "I don't agree with this take" which will make too much work for the mods.
We get like one report every couple of months. I wouldn't mind more reports, but we'd have to make rules for the threads that we can enforce consistently.
I'll run with the assumption that Cocoa left because of US political threads. If that's the case, I don't understand it. When I don't like the tenor of the discussion, I don't go into that thread. (And I stopped visiting all political threads for about a year until a new agreement had been reached with Cipp.) Not being privy to the discussion though, I have to wonder if there were any reasons that weren't shared because again, I don't see why one thread out of the hundreds on this forum would be the reason to leave (and iCM as well).
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#32

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

xianjiro wrote: January 10th, 2021, 9:42 pm
PeacefulAnarchy wrote: January 10th, 2021, 9:27 pm
Pretentious Hipster wrote: January 10th, 2021, 9:21 pm

Yea I could see that being the only option. Reporting can do some good things, but I imagine a lot of reporting might come down to "I don't agree with this take" which will make too much work for the mods.
We get like one report every couple of months. I wouldn't mind more reports, but we'd have to make rules for the threads that we can enforce consistently.
I'll run with the assumption that Cocoa left because of US political threads. If that's the case, I don't understand it. When I don't like the tenor of the discussion, I don't go into that thread. (And I stopped visiting all political threads for about a year until a new agreement had been reached with Cipp.) Not being privy to the discussion though, I have to wonder if there were any reasons that weren't shared because again, I don't see why one thread out of the hundreds on this forum would be the reason to leave (and iCM as well).
True, maybe there were PMs? Not aware of anyone doing it though. If it was just from the thread the logical thing would have been to leave at the same time as encountering it.
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#33

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kongs_speech wrote: January 10th, 2021, 9:40 pm I don't really see this forum as a "safe space," so I think a political thread should exist. It would be pretty lame to tell a group of adults, nearly all of whom are in our late 20s or older, that we can't discuss politics at all. It should probably be more regulated than it is, yes, but ultimately, if someone chooses to leave, that's their choice.
My, and I think the other mods, annoyance isn't about "safe space," it's about not feeling equipped to moderate it appropriately. The moderation level we have for the rest of the forum doesn't really work in a thread where people troll with disingenuous posts, answer easy questions and ignore the challenging ones, passively (and sometimes actively) insult each other, and probably other issues that I don't know because I, like others, avoid it for stretches of time. Could I moderate a politics thread? sure, probably. Do I want to? not really, and especially not without clear guidelines as to what to moderate.
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#34

Post by kongs_speech »

I just think it would really be a shame to see it go away entirely.
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St. Gloede
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#35

Post by St. Gloede »

Really sad news. Hope he is ok.
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Pretentious Hipster
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#36

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

Maybe just moderate stuff like "you're an idiot", or at the very least back it up with stuff when you say that?
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#37

Post by OldAle1 »

It's the only place I discuss politics online, so I would miss it in a sense - but then again I have left it for long stretches at a time, and there are several regulars or former regulars on it that I've now ignored, which I don't like but feel is necessary for me to stay sane. And if I can get back into watching and reviewing and discussing movies again, and if our politics becomes *slightly* less traumatic in the near future (fingers crossed), I for one could probably go without it. I think it'd be sad if it had to be removed, but I remember just how toxic both IMDb and Amazon NON-political forums were, and I'm on a couple of other sites that have no political forums and ruthlessly ban people for breaking the rules. Sure we're all adults but being an adult doesn't mean you don't act childish ever, as everybody ought to know after 4 years of an emotional toddler in charge.
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#38

Post by AdamH »

I'll be honest, I can't stand the political threads on here (I actually have a degree in politics although I haven't done anything politics-related since graduating). We have had endless issues on here because of the political threads and we've definitely had a few people quit the forum because of them (including some of the most active posters).

I don't really know how we can handle it. There is a lot of trolling in that thread. People seem to deny it but it's very obvious. As much as I love the forum, the political threads are not something I'm proud of at all. They have often been very toxic threads over the past few years.

I really don't want to see us lose more members because of it. I can't say an exact number who have left because of those threads (because it's impossible to really know) or have significantly reduced how often they post but I'm confident there have been a few.

Personally, I almost never post in the threads and try to avoid them as much as possible unless someone reports a post (which doesn't happen very often).
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#39

Post by AdamH »

Very sad if Cocoa has quit although I don't understand why he would delete his iCM account? Can't really see the connection.
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#40

Post by OldAle1 »

AdamH wrote: January 10th, 2021, 10:20 pm I'll be honest, I can't stand the political threads on here (I actually have a degree in politics although I haven't done anything politics-related since graduating). We have had endless issues on here because of the political threads and we've definitely had a few people quit the forum because of them (including some of the most active posters).

I don't really know how we can handle it. There is a lot of trolling in that thread. People seem to deny it but it's very obvious. As much as I love the forum, the political threads are not something I'm proud of at all. They have often been very toxic threads over the past few years.

I really don't want to see us lose more members because of it. I can't say an exact number who have left because of those threads (because it's impossible to really know) or have significantly reduced how often they post but I'm confident there have been a few.

Personally, I almost never post in the threads and try to avoid them as much as possible unless someone reports a post (which doesn't happen very often).
Honestly they are among the LEAST-toxic political threads I've ever seen - I think that's a tribute to the *generally* sane and mature group that we have, and better moderation than usual (even on threads most mods seem to hate!). But that just shows that politics ALWAYS ends up pissing people off and pitting them against each other.

Thank God we don't have a religion thread, and that I'm an atheist, with apologies to Buñuel.
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