Covid-19 Quarantine

[xianjiro]

Yeah, I knew that would come up, but clearly smokers (and former smokers) are at increased risk for a disease that adversely impacts the lungs (and other body systems). Could such a decision just be recognition of that fact? Also, maybe it is better to get these parties inoculated vs have them in ICU beds. Should we deny Covid treatment to those who have fought against masks or actively violated social distancing every chance they got? Last, should public health decisions be subject to morality arguments as in: should women who binge on junk food, get drunk daily, never exercise, and therefore carry excessive weight be denied access to care for breast cancer since these are controllable factors that influence risk for the disease?

I admit, my initial reaction was similar, and while I get that it's controversial, upon thought it does make more than a little sense, especially if we're concerned about hospital beds.

[joachimt]

So we're finally getting a curfew. Starts tomorrow. Curfew is from 9:00 PM to 4:30 AM. My life won't change at all because of this. Students of mine are not happy with it. But that's exactly the point. Lots of young people going out to friends in the evening. A shame the curfew doesn't start earlier in the evening.

[xianjiro]

Not sure I remember what age group you teach ... are these high schoolers?

I certainly had either a 9pm or 10pm curfew through high school.

[mightysparks]

I never had a curfew but I never went out lol

[Onderhond]

Mine was 6AM ... clearly my parents didn't want me to go to afterparties (but really it was them just wanting me home when they got up again).

[weirdboy]

Never had a curfew personally.

What they did here in Japan was to limit the hours that bars, restaurants, and similar places of business are open so that basically there is no place to go out and gather after 8pm.

[joachimt]

Not sure I remember what age group you teach ... are these high schoolers?

I certainly had either a 9pm or 10pm curfew through high school.

High school. I teach kids aging 13 to 19 roughly. Spoke to a girl of 16 yesterday. She normally goes to friends in the evening. On a weekday she has to be home at 10 PM. No idea what normal is these days. When I was 16 I went to sports two evenings a week, but was home mostly around 8:30 PM. I never went out late during the week. I even went to bed always around 9:30 PM, otherwise I would get too tired of getting up every morning between 6:30 and 7 AM. I needed 9 hours of sleep. Anyway, this girl was a bit disappointed by having to be home at 9 PM now. I'm pretty sure others her age are even more disappointed.

[xianjiro]

Never had a curfew personally.

What they did here in Japan was to limit the hours that bars, restaurants, and similar places of business are open so that basically there is no place to go out and gather after 8pm.

well, and this might not be known, it's unusual for adults to gather in people's homes in Japan - not really sure about kids, can't say that topic ever came up that I remember. So it's really a much bigger deal than it would appear at face value.

Can't count how many times we went out to izakaya (and some restaurants). But I can count visits to a home on a single hand.

[xianjiro]

Not sure I remember what age group you teach ... are these high schoolers?

I certainly had either a 9pm or 10pm curfew through high school.

High school. I teach kids aging 13 to 19 roughly. Spoke to a girl of 16 yesterday. She normally goes to friends in the evening. On a weekday she has to be home at 10 PM. No idea what normal is these days. When I was 16 I went to sports two evenings a week, but was home mostly around 8:30 PM. I never went out late during the week. I even went to bed always around 9:30 PM, otherwise I would get too tired of getting up every morning between 6:30 and 7 AM. I needed 9 hours of sleep. Anyway, this girl was a bit disappointed by having to be home at 9 PM now. I'm pretty sure others her age are even more disappointed.

okay, that makes sense - though apparently others around here wouldn't have been surprised to read that elementary kids were dragging home at the witching hour

[peeptoad]

Never had a curfew personally.

What they did here in Japan was to limit the hours that bars, restaurants, and similar places of business are open so that basically there is no place to go out and gather after 8pm.

Same where I live. The curfew was set for ~9-10pm and it was mainly to get younger people out of the restaurants/bars/alcohol venues where they were busy slobbering all over each other.
I also never had a curfew as a teenager; my mom's one stipulation was that I tell her who I was with and where we were going, but I never had to be home by a certain time. At least that flexibility allowed me to see most of the punk bands that played the Boston-Prov circuit back then...

[prodigalgodson]

Yeah, I knew that would come up, but clearly smokers (and former smokers) are at increased risk for a disease that adversely impacts the lungs (and other body systems). Could such a decision just be recognition of that fact? Also, maybe it is better to get these parties inoculated vs have them in ICU beds. Should we deny Covid treatment to those who have fought against masks or actively violated social distancing every chance they got? Last, should public health decisions be subject to morality arguments as in: should women who binge on junk food, get drunk daily, never exercise, and therefore carry excessive weight be denied access to care for breast cancer since these are controllable factors that influence risk for the disease?

I admit, my initial reaction was similar, and while I get that it's controversial, upon thought it does make more than a little sense, especially if we're concerned about hospital beds.

Good points, especially about hospital capacity. It still feels intuitively wrong that people who actively work to destroy their lungs should be prioritized over essential workers, but objectively what you're saying totally makes sense.

[xianjiro]

I think another problem is going to be actually defining which workers are essential. First off, every business considers it's workers essential to its business. But this phrase is bandied about so much it's starting to be meaningless. Yes, accounting staff is necessary to pay for the goods that are sold, but are they "essential"? Are teachers essential if a district has declared they don't plan to offer in person learning until September 2021 at the earliest? Are CEOs essential? Then there are extra complications like an attempt to address the increased prevalence on the disease in communities of color and the phrase "who are often essential workers" gets tacked on.

At this rate, it will be far easier to define who is non-essential: me, for instance, since while the service I provide is essential to a gentleman who cannot see most print any longer, I can do that remotely

I really wish there had been better guidance related to "essential workers" prior to the obvious over demand/under supply of the vaccines. It shouldn't come as anything like a surprise that there simply wouldn't be enough capacity to make a vaccine for 7.8 billion people. And guess what, with so much of the Industrial West relying on developing nations for their food supply, those workers are also essential.

It's amazing to me how many are arguing about why they should be next in line for the vaccine. This probably shouldn't be a discussion: if there's a time for leadership, it is now. Or at least it was three months ago.

[Pretentious Hipster]

I'm confused. A magazine company from Taiwan decided to draw diseases as anime characters to raise awareness, but just wanted to make them attractive instead. This is Covid, who turned into a femdom hacker



The stomach flu is a highlight too



You can see the other diseases here: https://mothership.sg/2020/10/covid-ani ... aiwan-cdc/

[weirdboy]

The shape in each image roughly matches the shapes of the virus, I guess.

Although stomach flu looks like maybe it could be Ebola.

[mightysparks]

Well, Perth just had its first transmission in nearly 10 months and we're going into a hard 5-day lockdown starting at 6pm tonight (~4 hours away). Masks are mandatory (never were before), everywhere is pretty much closing, hard restrictions etc. Hadn't been grocery shopping in 2 weeks and have been running out of food so went down and yea.. queue was already around the building and everyone's running around and driving like it's the end of the world. Pharmacy downstairs from me had no masks. So yea.. gonna be a fun 5 days. I'm happy to not leave the house except 1) I need food and 2) my bf has been staying in the city instead of home and idk if we're going to be able to spend it together.

[maxwelldeux]

Meanwhile in my WA...

Still in 4-digits of daily community transmissions, no lockdown, masks "mandatory" (read, the sheriff refuses to enforce it, so basically it's an honor system), restaurants are reopening (literally, my county has moved to "Phase 2" of reopening), grocery stores have never closed, etc. Fortunately, I'm still months away from being able to get a vaccine, because 'Murica.

On a semi-related note, I was called for Jury Duty. I was fortunately able to reschedule to November, but I was not looking forward to the consequences I might face for refusing to show up to jury duty and putting my and my wife's life in jeopardy.

[joachimt]

Well, Perth just had its first transmission in nearly 10 months and we're going into a hard 5-day lockdown starting at 6pm tonight (~4 hours away). Masks are mandatory (never were before), everywhere is pretty much closing, hard restrictions etc. Hadn't been grocery shopping in 2 weeks and have been running out of food so went down and yea.. queue was already around the building and everyone's running around and driving like it's the end of the world. Pharmacy downstairs from me had no masks. So yea.. gonna be a fun 5 days. I'm happy to not leave the house except 1) I need food and 2) my bf has been staying in the city instead of home and idk if we're going to be able to spend it together.

Funny how different things are. One transmission in a huge city and you're going into lockdown. In The Netherlands we had to climb to 10k new cases per day before going into lockdown (stores and school closing, no groups, masks in public places). A few week later, when we were still above 5k new cases per day, they added a curfew starting at 21PM (!!) and there were riot everywhere.

Do people riot in Perth or is it just a run for supplies?

[mightysparks]

I've never seen a riot, but the run for supplies is insane. The announcement was about 2 hours ago and already supermarkets are closing down with hundreds of people queuing up outside.

All the states here are quick to shut everything down as soon as there's a transmission. This guy was apparently a security guard at a hotel where UK people with COVID were in quarantine and then he went to a few other places before getting tested positive.

[sebby]

Meanwhile in the US it's 25-30 thousand deaths per week now and the thought of another legitimate lockdown seems unlikely. Just gonna ride it out til covid is under control and however many people die along the way, oh well!

[mightysparks]

Yea this lockdown is slightly annoying (5 hours notice on a Sunday?) but we’ve had less than 1000 cases since this started and this quick action seems to be pretty effective.

[joachimt]

Yea this lockdown is slightly annoying (5 hours notice on a Sunday?) but we’ve had less than 1000 cases since this started and this quick action seems to be pretty effective.

And the difference is you'll probably be out of the lockdown in a few days. Here we simply don't know how long it will take, so lot of people are getting impatient and simply want to live normal again.

[Armoreska]

On a semi-related note, I was called for Jury Duty. I was fortunately able to reschedule to November, but I was not looking forward to the consequences I might face for refusing to show up to jury duty and putting my and my wife's life in jeopardy.

What? Do they have capital punishment for not fulfilling jury duty?

[Knaldskalle]

On a semi-related note, I was called for Jury Duty. I was fortunately able to reschedule to November, but I was not looking forward to the consequences I might face for refusing to show up to jury duty and putting my and my wife's life in jeopardy.

What? Do they have capital punishment for not fulfilling jury duty?

They give you COVID and see what happens. If you survive they give it to you again.

[tobias]

I legitimately don't think curfews and harsh lockdowns do much good. In Denmark they never had a curfew and cases have been sharply declining since Christmas, much more than in Germany where generally rules are significantly harsher (though at least in the north no curfews either). And danish youth is very similar to dutch youth in a lot of respects. The thing is that Denmark tests its people. Since the pandemic began Denmark has tested twice as many people as the Netherlands with less than a third the population (meaning the effective test rate is six times as high). Who would have thought it helps to know which people got Covid as soon as possible?

I don't know. I'm getting kind of annoyed by how supportive people in Germany are of authoritarian measures that yield poor results. I mean yes, in spring this made sense. One year later we should have learned something. Test rate is a fifth of Denmark. Meanwhile in my city wearing a mask at the beach is made mandatory in midwinter. Can't they just provide free tests instead of symbolic measures ffs? A lot of the measures do nothing and some of the most effective measures are barely discussed or spend infinite times in bureaucratic nightmare machines.

Furthermore if I go to Denmark (like 10-15km away) I have to go through an entire testing and quarantine framework but if I go to somewhere in Germany where case-rates actually are very high nothing is required. Politicians are honestly just doing this bullshit because it's the easy way out. I wish the approach was more level-headed and considered which measures are most likely to actually make a big difference.

[maxwelldeux]

On a semi-related note, I was called for Jury Duty. I was fortunately able to reschedule to November, but I was not looking forward to the consequences I might face for refusing to show up to jury duty and putting my and my wife's life in jeopardy.

What? Do they have capital punishment for not fulfilling jury duty?

They give you COVID and see what happens. If you survive they give it to you again.

Well, maybe? I believe the judge issues a bench warrant which can lead to an arrest/short jail sentence if they decide to enforce it.

[OldAle1]

This is where we are in this country right now

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/1 ... e-protests

I am getting to the point where I don't feel bad seeing these people get sick and die, but it seems even when they do they can't leave the crazy enough to see reality anymore. We really are doomed.

[mightysparks]

Ended up staying at my boyfriend’s ‘second home’ in the city because they had food there. Called a bunch of pharmacies looking for masks, one place not getting in til Thursday , and finally found one a 15 minute walk away. As soon as we left the apartment complex some guy started yelling at us to put masks on and the whole walk there people giving us looks like we were scum. Wtf is wrong with people. We finally got some anyway and it’s the first time I’ve had to wear them and in 37 degree heat it was not fun but at least we don’t get treated like homeless degenerates lol. Managed to get some groceries to hold me over for the week so I shouldn’t have to leave the house again until next week. Hopefully lockdown doesn’t get extended...

[brokenface]

Ended up staying at my boyfriend’s ‘second home’ in the city because they had food there. Called a bunch of pharmacies looking for masks, one place not getting in til Thursday , and finally found one a 15 minute walk away. As soon as we left the apartment complex some guy started yelling at us to put masks on and the whole walk there people giving us looks like we were scum. Wtf is wrong with people. We finally got some anyway and it’s the first time I’ve had to wear them and in 37 degree heat it was not fun but at least we don’t get treated like homeless degenerates lol. Managed to get some groceries to hold me over for the week so I shouldn’t have to leave the house again until next week. Hopefully lockdown doesn’t get extended...

Welcome to the Pandemic

[mightysparks]

Ended up staying at my boyfriend’s ‘second home’ in the city because they had food there. Called a bunch of pharmacies looking for masks, one place not getting in til Thursday , and finally found one a 15 minute walk away. As soon as we left the apartment complex some guy started yelling at us to put masks on and the whole walk there people giving us looks like we were scum. Wtf is wrong with people. We finally got some anyway and it’s the first time I’ve had to wear them and in 37 degree heat it was not fun but at least we don’t get treated like homeless degenerates lol. Managed to get some groceries to hold me over for the week so I shouldn’t have to leave the house again until next week. Hopefully lockdown doesn’t get extended...

Welcome to the Pandemic

We were about 12 months late but that’s just classic Perth

[peeptoad]

...it’s the first time I’ve had to wear them and in 37 degree heat it was not fun ...

Wait until it's winter down there again; it's much easier to have something plastered to the front of your face when you're in this damn, frigging, sub-arctic climate that has developed here over the last week.

[Kublai Khan]

Florida has had 1.74 million cases (27k deaths) with about 10,000 new cases per day (160 deaths per day). They are prioritizing the vaccine to the most elderly due to them having the highest mortality and they don't verify residency. There's also issues with richest counties getting more vaccines than dense city locations.

As a school teacher, I'm pretty annoyed at the fact that I've got a higher exposure potential for covid-19, but there's no date for when I might be eligible for a vaccine.

Plus Florida is just full of people taking absolutely no precautions. It's not uncommon to walk into a gas station and see half the people (including workers) with no masks, and half the people wearing masks are wearing them incorrectly.

This is a more extreme example, but not one I'm surprised about.



I hate this place.

[Knaldskalle]

As a school teacher, I'm pretty annoyed at the fact that I've got a higher exposure potential for covid-19, but there's no date for when I might be eligible for a vaccine.

As I was reading this I was literally listening to a debate on the radio about Albuquerque Public Schools deciding not to (physically) reopen middle schools yet. In NM teachers are considered frontline workers and a prioritized for vaccinations. In fact, my youngest daughter's teacher is getting her shot today and had to cancel a class.

[mightysparks]

Just finished our 4th day of lockdown and so far there have been no new positive test results in WA... but they are extending restrictions for another 9 days: mandatory masks except for ‘vigorous outdoor exercise’, but slightly more people allowed in places and pubs, restaurants etc opening up again. Seems to be going ok so far... The bushfires are doing more damage than COVID. Supermarkets have also been more or less fully stocked since day 2-3 of lockdown, as well as masks becoming plentiful. Took weeks to get supplies back to normal last time so pretty surprised. My mum has been making cotton masks over the last year and didn’t sell that many, but this week she has sold 200! She can’t even keep up with the demand lol.

[xianjiro]

Florida has had 1.74 million cases (27k deaths) with about 10,000 new cases per day (160 deaths per day). They are prioritizing the vaccine to the most elderly due to them having the highest mortality and they don't verify residency. There's also issues with richest counties getting more vaccines than dense city locations.

As a school teacher, I'm pretty annoyed at the fact that I've got a higher exposure potential for covid-19, but there's no date for when I might be eligible for a vaccine.

Plus Florida is just full of people taking absolutely no precautions. It's not uncommon to walk into a gas station and see half the people (including workers) with no masks, and half the people wearing masks are wearing them incorrectly.

We're exactly the flip-side: teachers have been prioritized over the elderly though the elderly are going to be added to fire-sale fight for vaccines in five year cohorts each week starting next week. I haven't memorized the exact ages thus this is for example of concept only. 8 Feb over 80s, 15 Feb over 75s, 22 Feb over 70s. Lots of people aren't happy about this situation either including educators with elder parents.

Medically-risky populations (excluding those in congregate living settings but including the immunocompromised, cancer patients, those with multiple co-morbidities, etc) have been pushed back to at least mid-March. One bright side was the addition of caregivers for developmentally disabled people to front-line medical workers a couple weeks ago.

But you can guess the reactions to this one: court ordered vaccination of the state's prison population will take place either this or next week (I forget which) and this will eat up about a day's vaccines but of course the outbreaks inside have been worse than the general public (both cases and deaths) but better than care homes for the elderly.

I've characterized the situation thusly and these aren't actual numbers, just an illustration for discussion: we've increased the eligible population for the vaccine by 10 fold but we only have a 10% increase in doses available. However, the upside is we are now approaching 70% usage of available doses as more people fight for the available shots.

As for masks, yes, you see it all but it depends where one goes. The people who wear disposable masks over and over, under their nose, hanging off their chin, are constantly fiddling/adjusting, but also lots of people who are wearing them correctly much of the day, even when they are driving alone or going for a walk. It seems this and other social distancing measures have generally kept our per capita rates fairly low comparatively though clearly we did see spikes in transmission corresponding to the holidays with transmissions down, hospitalizations down a bit, and deaths still rising (but this all tracks against the holidays). Will there be a Superbowl mini-spike?

But overall support for masks and other social distancing remains reasonably strong and tracks in the upper 60s (though I believe that's a nationwide number). I don't shop much, but it's been a while since I've seen maskless shoppers. Not saying it doesn't happen, but everyones pretty observant at the grocery stores, library, and pharmacy. I don't go out elsewhere (haven't been near a restaurant in months) and wouldn't be surprised if there are pockets or swaths of territory that ignore warnings independent of the fervent anti-mask crowd.

[xianjiro]

Just finished our 4th day of lockdown and so far there have been no new positive test results in WA... but they are extending restrictions for another 9 days: mandatory masks except for ‘vigorous outdoor exercise’, but slightly more people allowed in places and pubs, restaurants etc opening up again. Seems to be going ok so far... The bushfires are doing more damage than COVID. Supermarkets have also been more or less fully stocked since day 2-3 of lockdown, as well as masks becoming plentiful. Took weeks to get supplies back to normal last time so pretty surprised. My mum has been making cotton masks over the last year and didn’t sell that many, but this week she has sold 200! She can’t even keep up with the demand lol.

I was thinking about you and Sol re: the bushfires. We went through the same thing last August in the outer-suburbs/ex-burbs/etc. Stay safe!

[weirdboy]

Old people have priority here, but nobody has gotten any vaccines yet anyway so it's a moot point.

State of emergency was extended another month, until (at least) March 7 due mostly to the demand on hospital resources being too high still. It was past the breaking point already, so they need time to recover.

[maxwelldeux]

Washington state is in the middle. Old people, then workers in health care settings, but Teachers are included in Phase 1b Tier 2, which puts them ahead of people with a bunch of underlying comorbidities.

[mightysparks]

Just finished our 4th day of lockdown and so far there have been no new positive test results in WA... but they are extending restrictions for another 9 days: mandatory masks except for ‘vigorous outdoor exercise’, but slightly more people allowed in places and pubs, restaurants etc opening up again. Seems to be going ok so far... The bushfires are doing more damage than COVID. Supermarkets have also been more or less fully stocked since day 2-3 of lockdown, as well as masks becoming plentiful. Took weeks to get supplies back to normal last time so pretty surprised. My mum has been making cotton masks over the last year and didn’t sell that many, but this week she has sold 200! She can’t even keep up with the demand lol.

I was thinking about you and Sol re: the bushfires. We went through the same thing last August in the outer-suburbs/ex-burbs/etc. Stay safe!

Luckily I’m right on the coast, so I’m pretty isolated from any bushfire risk, but they did get close to my boyfriend’s family home and I’ve been a bit worried. My mum said she had ash falling in her yard and she’s nowhere near them. The pictures have been pretty intense, hoping the rain on the weekend will help it get under control.

[sol]

I was thinking about you and Sol re: the bushfires. We went through the same thing last August in the outer-suburbs/ex-burbs/etc. Stay safe!

Thanks, xi. I'm pretty close to the yellow area (but not the red emergency area), maybe a couple of suburbs away, but the fire does not seem to really be spreading into the metro area and we are expecting rainfall tomorrow, which will hopefully help.

[xianjiro]

fingers crossed for rain -- now if we can get it to rain vaccine here, that would really do the trick