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Animal cruelty in movies, wtf

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matthewscott8
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Animal cruelty in movies, wtf

#1

Post by matthewscott8 »

Have you ever been watching a classic movie and feel awestruck, and then some animal cruelty is thrown in, and you're speechless?

I watched Mest / Revenge (1989 - Yermek Shinarbayev) today and found it mind-expanding on the subject of trauma. The filmmakers casually sick a dog on a goose, presumably to illustrate how mean the world is. To underline this point a group of boys set a rat on fire and watch it scoot to get away from its own flames. I have rarely seen such a profound and esoteric movie, without those two scenes it's straight into my top ten all time movies.

Why do they do it? Satantango was another. Apocalypse Now. Touki Bouki. Still The Water.
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#2

Post by Armoreska »

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#3

Post by kongs_speech »

Fuck, they put that in the goddamn Criterion Collection? I'm not personally attached to geese, although that does sound horribly cruel, but I can't watch that happen to a rodent. Guess I'll either not get the Criterion and Eureka platinums or ... I don't even know.
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matthewscott8
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#4

Post by matthewscott8 »

that first list has The House That Jack Built in it, but no animal was harmed. Prosthesis and cgi on the duckling and the tigers were stock footage. Still very interesting and eye opening.
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#5

Post by Torgo »

matthewscott8 wrote: ↑March 12th, 2021, 10:50 pm that first list has The House That Jack Built in it, but no animal was harmed. Prosthesis and cgi on the duckling and the tigers were stock footage. Still very interesting and eye opening.
That was one of the very first things I looked up for House That Jack Built after my watch, I think PETA even somehow approved the scene. It's short, but hurtful.

Re: topic: it will occur once in a while, likelier with films from cultural spheres other than post-70s Hollywood ( :o ), and often enough when you don't expect it.

I certainly do not like it.
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#6

Post by Armoreska »

matthewscott8 wrote: ↑March 12th, 2021, 10:50 pm
that first list has The House That Jack Built in it, but no animal was harmed. Prosthesis and cgi on the duckling and the tigers were stock footage. Still very interesting and eye opening.
It's expected. Those are added by people. I submitted a deletion. This info is pretty high in the trivia list.
The other two lists may contain fake violence as well, especially if it's a newer movie.
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#7

Post by matthewscott8 »

Torgo wrote: ↑March 13th, 2021, 12:08 am
matthewscott8 wrote: ↑March 12th, 2021, 10:50 pm that first list has The House That Jack Built in it, but no animal was harmed. Prosthesis and cgi on the duckling and the tigers were stock footage. Still very interesting and eye opening.
That was one of the very first things I looked up for House That Jack Built after my watch, I think PETA even somehow approved the scene. It's short, but hurtful.

Re: topic: it will occur once in a while, likelier with films from cultural spheres other than post-70s Hollywood ( :o ), and often enough when you don't expect it.

I certainly do not like it.
It's probably the most desolate scene I've ever watched in a movie. It is however very much in context in The House That Jack Built. Firstly, serial killers do start out on animals (PETA pointed this out), secondly, the movie is in many senses an act of self-annihilation by von Trier, he wants to be condemned, and he's suicidal. Tweet from him in December 2016: "Can someone please invent those suicide cabins?". He tries to amplify every source of criticism, puts actors in danger? Let's go caving with Bruno Ganz? Criticism about his views on Nazism? Let's praise Albert Speer? #MeToo? Let's make a movie about a guy who tortures and murders woman? Whilst stunningly unpleasant, he didn't harm any animals, and it's perhaps the most authentic self-portrait ever made.
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#8

Post by jal90 »

In terms of cinema, I don't think it makes that big of a difference. Real or simulated, the impact is still there, and having seen both examples of animal cruelty in film I don't think one feels more egregiously disturbing when experienced on screen and in the context of a fictional script.

In ethical terms it's another thing. Decades ago, it was disturbing yet one could understand that the fault lied in a lack of regulation and concientization by society at large and film directors in specific. Things like horses dying in big western or epic adventures, like hunting scenes, etc. are to a point inevitable in older cinema. At this point however it's intolerable. All sorts of violence in movies must be simulated, or else it's abuse and art does not condone abuse. And animal cruelty is one of the most blatant cases, and yet one that has taken too long to take seriously and even be integrated in debates about the limits of artistic expression.
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#9

Post by Mario Gaborović »

Because of the Cats by Fons Rademakers has depictions of two pet cats stabbed through as a way of ritual PLUS one off-screen knife stabbing. Of course they were not murdered for real, but it disgusts me because it gives idiots the ideas. I adore them, and no animal murder affects me like that of a cat.

Rojet e mjegullës (1988) is an early film from Kosovo in which they actually lit up a horse for the purpose of filmmaking.
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#10

Post by erde »

matthewscott8 wrote: ↑March 12th, 2021, 9:41 pm Satantango was another.
According to Tarr the cat was not hurt. Is there conflicting info about it?
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#11

Post by matthewscott8 »

erde wrote: ↑March 14th, 2021, 9:52 am
matthewscott8 wrote: ↑March 12th, 2021, 9:41 pm Satantango was another.
According to Tarr the cat was not hurt. Is there conflicting info about it?
The actual footage. Unlike the Trier film, Tarr is not saying there was cgi or prostheses used, he simply says that we shouldn't be upset about what we saw, he's saying it's not mistreatment. However, the camera does not lie. In his defence he says there was a vet on site and he was nice to the cat afterwards. But that doesn't make it right. The context is very appropriate, the pattern of violence is very realistic, the girl tortures the cat because she can't torture the boy who has stolen from her. So it's not gratuitous. But it is completely unacceptable.
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#12

Post by matthewscott8 »

Apparently in Rublev they used the excuse that they purchased a horse from an abbatoir that was imminently about to dispatch it. However they don't seem to understand that saving a horse's life doesn't mean they then have the right to kill it (in a less humane way than the abbatoir was going to as well).
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#13

Post by 3eyes »

Nothing to do with movies, so feel free to ignore.

My husband, a medical biochemist, wanted to confer with the world's most prominent leech biologist. Now, if I had one day to spend in Wales, I wouldn't spend it at the world's only leech farm (in Swansea), but so it was. ... Tanks of the giant Amazon leech which can stretch to a foot long, thought to be extinct until Roy Sawyer went and found some, etc. And news clippings on the wall: It seems that Prince Charles made a royal visit to this part of his domain and was given a (small) leech to hold, which he dropped on the floor. The press was full of animal-cruelty outrage.
:run: STILL the Gaffer!
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#14

Post by Mario Gaborović »

Don't forget rabbits in La caza (1966).
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#15

Post by jal90 »

And a dog in Furtivos (1975).
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#16

Post by Mario Gaborović »

Di yi lei xing wei xian (1980). Sadly, what I despise the most: cruelty to a cat.
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#17

Post by Armoreska »

Put it into ICM comment maybe.
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#18

Post by Lammetje »

2 Guns had a disgusting scene where people were shooting at chickens.
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#19

Post by Torgo »

Lammetje wrote: ↑April 4th, 2021, 3:14 pm 2 Guns had a disgusting scene where people where shooting at chickens.
That is true. It actually starts with the chickens being unharmed, giving you short relief, until Mark Wahlberg kills them all for a joke. :pinch: That's some Michael Bay level stupidity there.
At least we can safely assume no real chickens were harmed, so it's no true animal cruelty for me. Though it may appear on IMDb tagged as "animals killed in movies" or something like that; the simulated depiction may be listworthy, but a wholly different thing to actually kill animals for the camera, right? (Birds, no less :( )
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#20

Post by Lammetje »

Torgo wrote: ↑April 4th, 2021, 7:39 pm
Lammetje wrote: ↑April 4th, 2021, 3:14 pm 2 Guns had a disgusting scene where people were shooting at chickens.
At least we can safely assume no real chickens were harmed, so it's no true animal cruelty for me.
I hope so, but it looked pretty real to me.
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#21

Post by Armoreska »

So the ending of Week-end puts it on the actual-animal-killed list, actually x2 at least.
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#22

Post by Mario Gaborović »

Armoreska wrote: ↑April 6th, 2021, 11:24 am So the ending of Week-end puts it on the actual-animal-killed list, actually x2 at least.
Can you add the titles I've mentioned above?

Plus Vec vidjeno (chicken) and Ljudozder vegetarijanac (illegal dog fights).
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#23

Post by Armoreska »

Mario Gaborović wrote: ↑April 6th, 2021, 3:06 pm
Armoreska wrote: ↑April 6th, 2021, 11:24 am So the ending of Week-end puts it on the actual-animal-killed list, actually x2 at least.
Can you add the titles I've mentioned above?

Plus Vec vidjeno (chicken) and Ljudozder vegetarijanac (illegal dog fights).
actual chicken killed in Vec vidjeno?

Ljudozder vegetarijanac
abuse, cruelty, fake/actual death?

I converted the keywords to ICM list
http://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/conta ... armoreska/
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#24

Post by Mario Gaborović »

Armoreska wrote: ↑April 7th, 2021, 4:53 pm
Mario Gaborović wrote: ↑April 6th, 2021, 3:06 pm
Armoreska wrote: ↑April 6th, 2021, 11:24 am So the ending of Week-end puts it on the actual-animal-killed list, actually x2 at least.
Can you add the titles I've mentioned above?

Plus Vec vidjeno (chicken) and Ljudozder vegetarijanac (illegal dog fights).
actual chicken killed in Vec vidjeno?

Ljudozder vegetarijanac
abuse, cruelty, fake/actual death?

I converted the keywords to ICM list
http://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/conta ... armoreska/
Not actually killed, it was like a offscreen "murder". I doubt it really was, anyway.

Likewise, the dog fighting scenes in LV are also very mild, no blood, no actual scars or injuries.

I didn't know what's considered legit to make your list, that's why I mentioned staged abuses.

Only Rojet e mjegulles has an actual murder of an animal (horse btw).
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#25

Post by Armoreska »

Buñuel en el laberinto de las tortugas
shows and recreates in animation the scene of killing a chicken from Las Hurdes
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#26

Post by peeptoad »

Maybe that "counts" because it's a recreation of something that actually happened?... otherwise every single Road Runner cartoon please.
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#27

Post by Armoreska »

I'm further in and there's also the scene with goats too. I forgot how violent Las Hurdes was.
Well they actually show those scenes from the actual movie (which is properly tagged, while I tagged this biopic w/o "actual animal killed" even though it shows the clips).

Bunuel flinches at the chicken scene, while not in the goats scene. Both times the animals are killed for the film.
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#28

Post by peeptoad »

Armoreska wrote: ↑Today, 1:37 pm I'm further in and there's also the scene with goats too. I forgot how violent Las Hurdes was.
Well they actually show those scenes from the actual movie (which is properly tagged, while I tagged this biopic w/o "actual animal killed" even though it shows the clips).

Bunuel flinches at the chicken scene, while not in the goats scene. Both times the animals are killed for the film.
The goat plummeting from the precipice struck me. Yes, violent, but still a good doc imho.
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#29

Post by Armoreska »

Oh you just watched it some days ago
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#30

Post by peeptoad »

Well, a few weeks ago, but recently.
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