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St. Gloede
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#19601

Post by St. Gloede »

I though all 3 films were all relatively great, with Happy as Lazzaro being my 2nd favourite of 2018 - but Le Meraviglie is the weakest and the closest to just being good. It also has extremely different energy from the other two, and does not have the same kind of perspective or drive that feels like it is really digging into society. I can definitely see it falling completely flat.

BTW, is that the Argento Suspira? If so, just dive into Giallo. Do the other top Argento and try Bava.

I would have said try Fellini, but as you did not like the Fellini wannabe The Great Beauty I'm not quite sure there. You could try De Sica if you feel inclined towards neo-realism. Otherwise there's always my favourite, Pasolini.
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#19602

Post by Lakigigar »

St. Gloede wrote: March 4th, 2021, 11:54 pm I though all 3 films were all relatively great, with Happy as Lazzaro being my 2nd favourite of 2018 - but Le Meraviglie is the weakest and the closest to just being good. It also has extremely different energy from the other two, and does not have the same kind of perspective or drive that feels like it is really digging into society. I can definitely see it falling completely flat.

BTW, is that the Argento Suspira? If so, just dive into Giallo. Do the other top Argento and try Bava.

I would have said try Fellini, but as you did not like the Fellini wannabe The Great Beauty I'm not quite sure there. You could try De Sica if you feel inclined towards neo-realism. Otherwise there's always my favourite, Pasolini.
Yes it's Argento's Suspiria. I haven't watched the reboot/remake from Guadagnino (even though it's almost entirely different than Argento's Suspiria) yet.
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#19603

Post by St. Gloede »

Brilliant sign then - while Suspira is a little different from the other Gialli there are plenty of similarities as well. Giallo was a massive part of my early entry into Italian film - essentially went from Hitchcock (had a massive Hitchcock kick as a teenager) to Argento - and then Bava, Fulci and Martino. These films, like Suspira, are often visually stunning and driven by atmosphere - obviously also with decent amounts of suspense, tension, etc.
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#19604

Post by Lakigigar »

St. Gloede wrote: March 5th, 2021, 8:36 am Brilliant sign then - while Suspira is a little different from the other Gialli there are plenty of similarities as well. Giallo was a massive part of my early entry into Italian film - essentially went from Hitchcock (had a massive Hitchcock kick as a teenager) to Argento - and then Bava, Fulci and Martino. These films, like Suspira, are often visually stunning and driven by atmosphere - obviously also with decent amounts of suspense, tension, etc.
Yes, i want visually stunning movies (and i need some tension and suspense too). I haven't delved much into it, yet, but I will.
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#19605

Post by Lakigigar »

Does someone have recommendations for me, if i want some colourful (neon/fluor) visuals, like:

Climax / Enter The Void / Irréversible (Noé)
Drive / Only God Forgives / The Neon Demon (Refn)
Heruta Sukeruta (Ninagawa)
Like Me (Mockler)
Tokyo Tribe / Antiporno and to a lesser extent Why Don't You Play in Hell / Love Exposure (Sono)
The Guest has some great visuals too (Wingard)
Suspiria (Argento)
Blade Runner (Scott)
Mandy (Cosmatos)
Sin City

I suppose to some extent you could add Eyes Wide Shut (Kubrick), Victoria (Schipper), Suzhou He and Nightcrawler (Gilroy).

I also of course love movies with very good / amazing cinematography, esp. if taken in the one-shot gimmick (Son of Saul, 1917, Victoria again, Birdman, Utoya 22. Juli and i've heard Roma and Eshtebak are both too one take movies).
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#19606

Post by Torgo »

You are mistaken about Roma, I'm afraid. Given what other films you praise, I doubt you should give it high priority, either. Maybe check out The Revenant (2015) if only for the first half hour, the cinematography is beyond this world. :worship:

First, maybe take 5 minutes to watch this video by Carpenter Brut, you may enjoy it more than many featrure films. :lol:

One obvious recommendation - which you probably will know already, but I better include it - is Lost River (2014), Gosling's own take on the Refn type of films he starred in before.
I hope you can enjoy both last films by the Safdie Brothers, Good Time (2017) & Uncut Gems (2019), if only by their looks and the fantastic synth assault of Oneothrix Point Never. I was a fan of OPN since the late 00s and love how he fits these nervous indie films, a match made in heaven!

On the horror side, Colour Out of Space (2019) was more related to Mandy than I expected, and that not only because of Cage starring in both of them. There's also the way trashier Willy's Wonderland (2021), also Cage, which I mostly found bad, but it bears similarities.

I Care A Lot (2021) was also very synth-heavy but not so neon-y.
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#19607

Post by Lakigigar »

About Roma, someone suggested that on it's ICM page, but I can't find the comment anymore (which is weird, since I saw it this week).

I've seen The Revenant, and it's one of my favourites. Idem dito for Good Time which is in my top 25 movies of all-time (but I have to see Uncut Gems yet, which will happen this month most likely).

Lost River, i've seen it twice and it didn't work for me unfortunately. The visuals are great, but NWR does it better (and did set the standard very high).

Colour out of Space is indeed a movie i'm planning to watch, and Willy's Wonderland seems good too (i've heard it for the first time when Onderhond reviewed it)

I might also like this movie which has to be released this year. It's sort of sci-fi, it bears similarities to Limitless, Lord of the Flies and Nerve I guess, but it seems to have a great soundtrack and good visuals.

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#19608

Post by Torgo »

Oh, maybe also Vivarium (2019) - less trippy and purple than the others mentioned, but a cousin in style.
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#19609

Post by outdoorcats »

Eshtebak also is not a one take movie, nor does it even have any long takes. Someone gave you some wrong info there. It is an awesome, incredibly intense political thriller though.

A lie ain't a 'side of the story.' It's just a lie.
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#19610

Post by peeptoad »

Lakigigar wrote: March 5th, 2021, 5:45 pm Does someone have recommendations for me, if i want some colourful (neon/fluor) visuals...
Beyond the Black Rainbow
Call for Dreams

...or ask sol cuz I think he loves this stuff.
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#19611

Post by sol »

peeptoad wrote: March 6th, 2021, 2:50 am ask sol cuz I think he loves this stuff.
Neon in Cinema

Farewell, My Lovely (1975)
Suspiria (1977)
Inferno (1980)
Motel Hell (1980)
Terror Train (1980)
Starstruck (1982)
Mausoleum (1983)
Death Warmed Up (1984)
Retribution (1987)
The Dead Pit (1989)
Split (1989)
Flatliners (1990)
Maniac Cop 2 (1990)
King of New York (1990)
Salmonberries (1991)
The Player (1992) - one set/scene only
Neria (1993) - one set/scene only
Leprechaun 3 (1995)
Leaving Las Vegas (1995)
Pusher (1996)
Small Soldiers (1998) - one set/scene only
Ocean's Eleven (2001)
Dirty Pretty Things (2002)
House of 1000 Corpses (2003) - one set/scene only
Pusher II (2004)
Ocean's Eleven (2007)
Dead Silence (2007) - one set/scene only
My Blueberry Night (2007)
I Know Who Killed Me (2007)
Enter the Void (2009)
Heartless (2009)
Hobo with a Shotgun (2011)
The Lords of Salem (2012)
Only God Forgives (2013)
John Wick (2014)
Sunrise (2014)
Tokyo Tribe (2014)
The Mind's Eye (2015)
The Overnight (2015) - one set/scene only
The Neon Demon (2016)
A Fantastic Woman (2017)
John Wick 2 (2017)
Good Time (2017)
Veronica (2017)
Upgrade (2018)
Time Share (2018)
Bliss (2019)
Furie (2019)
VFW (2019)
Yummy (2019)
So Pretty (2019)
Dead Kids (2019)
Daniel Isn't Real (2019)
Color of Outer Space (2019)
John Wick 3: Parabellum (2019)
Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark (2019) - one set/scene only
Promising Young Woman (2020)
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#19612

Post by Lakigigar »

Thanks sol! :)
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St. Gloede
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#19613

Post by St. Gloede »

Did anyone join the online version of the Berlinale?

The Guardian claims it has the best lineup in years: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/m ... N4HcDGdzY

I'm really kicking myself for not realising it was on online programme as Radu Jude, who won the Golden Bear for "Bad Luck Banging or Loony Porn" is likely my favourite active director - and with the added buzz (the title and returning to present day - moving away from his conversations with history had me slightly worried) and the Guardians description has me thinking it could be yet another phenomenal trump.

Sciamma's Petite Maman was also in competition, and the writeup is promising her as well. Really kicking myself for missing these two, and many others.
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#19614

Post by St. Gloede »

Just watched Rani Radovy / Early Works (1967)

What a coincidence:

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#19615

Post by Dolwphin »

Accidentally, I revisited At Land during International Womxn Day. One of the greatest LGBTQQIAAP+ films. The aesthetics & formal experimentation is also wondrous.

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#19616

Post by Lakigigar »

I've been thinking about focusing on one year at at time for every month basically to get a better idea of the history of cinema. The thing is, this is hard to do, because if you literally dedicate one month to a year, it basically wil take 110 months to complete your journey, and in the latter years, it would certainly require 2 months unless you watch movies at an unhealthy stage. But i need some kind of "incentive" to watch older movies I believe, and i'm not sure how or where to start. Because now I can appreciate an older movie certainly but I have literally no context, because i'm more used to the context of the latest 20 to 30 years, although for some older movies this isn't an issue, but I feel like i can't properly rate an old movie, because I can't realize what is very good about it properly because I have no "context".

But the issue with this, this is absolutely not sustainable. Even if i decide to group things (like decades for a month), because it would require me not watching a 2010's movie for a very long time, if i strictly do this. I can decide to not strictly do it (although i'm quite obsessive), and just focus on top of a small focus next to watching what i want to watch. I'm just not sure how to do it.

If i don't do this, i feel like it will take years, before I really start working on some older movies, and for some reason, newer movies that pop up that look interesting are quite common. I'm still considering sort of doing that, but combining it with "newer stuff", but i'm not really sure how to do it. Or perhaps i need to focus more on directors instead of by year/decade/period. I really don't know.

What i'm doing right now, is making watchlists by month (but i feel myself unable to strictly follow them or completing them, but i do tend to make a lot of progress that way regardless, so I still do it), and from starting with mostly seeing what I wanted to see for several years, i'm slowly focusing on "focusing on directors" right now. And i'm trying to do this until end of may at least. After that, i'm not sure what to do. I'm also deliberating postponing some blockbusters I really want to see / or feel I should work on, until later, (more like this summer), same for tv-series (but i've started with two series anyway, but make slow progress on them). You have kind of those challenges that i sometimes work on, but I quickly am worn out of them by restricting myself to one kind of movie, although I also like them. With female directors, i'm focusing on all movies on my letterboxd watchlist of 500 movies, but selected by: "directed by females". For april, i have a lot of animations. For may, i still have a lot of Japan to work on, but I'm not so interested in the june or july challenges, in august there are two I like (<400 checks and Korean peninsula), but I feel like those challenges actually tend to keep myself delay a lot of must-see movies that I still haven't seen and should be ashamed off.

I'm unsure what to do, how to organize and decide what to see.
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#19617

Post by Dolwphin »

I'd suggest not overdosing through exploring cinema you don't like. Obviously it is always great to expand your horizons and frame of reference, but I would rather explore genres I appreciate. It is a good organizing principle to set a narrow criteria when deciding what to see tough. I'm currently exploring 1944 and is approaching 50 seen films from that year.
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#19618

Post by Torgo »

Dolwphin wrote: March 9th, 2021, 8:30 pm I'd suggest not overdosing through exploring cinema you don't like. Obviously it is always great to expand your horizons and frame of reference, but I would rather explore genres I appreciate.
Dolwphin has a point - not everyone is made to be a film historian. It can become frustrating.
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#19619

Post by Ebbywebby »

If I went back to my early 20s and could start over, I don't know if I'd have any better way to dig into film than the random, erratic way I did. If I had been fiercely systematic about it from the start, it just would have seemed like "work." Looking at some giant, intimidating list of all-time greatest films and sighing about how many years it would take me to see an impressive chunk of them. Depressing.

I just wish I'd discovered the world of bootlegged, online film streams several years earlier, because that was the game-changer.
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#19620

Post by Lakigigar »

Dolwphin wrote: March 9th, 2021, 8:30 pm I'd suggest not overdosing through exploring cinema you don't like. Obviously it is always great to expand your horizons and frame of reference, but I would rather explore genres I appreciate. It is a good organizing principle to set a narrow criteria when deciding what to see tough. I'm currently exploring 1944 and is approaching 50 seen films from that year.
But what is supposed to be a good start. What is supposed to be narrow criteria for selecting a film. I've really no idea how to start on this.

Like this is what i have for march now
Spoiler
Portrait de la jeune fille en feu
Little Women
On Body and Soul
Paris est a nous
Ava
You Were Never Really Here
Honey Boy
Nomadland
Saint Maud
First Cow
House of Hummingbird
Morvern Callar
The Virgin Suicides
American Honey

Sakuran
Diner

Repulsion
Rosemary's Baby
Chinatown
Le locataire

Pusher
Pusher II
Fear X
Bleeder
Bronson
Valhalla Rising
Drive
Only God Forgives
The Neon Demon

As Tears Go By
Days of Being Wild
Ashes of Time
Chungking Express
Fallen Angels
Happy Together
In The Mood For Love
2046
My Blueberry Nights
The Grandmaster

Black Coal, Thin Ice
The Wild Goose Lake

Kailli Blues
Long Day's Journey Into Night

The VVitch
The Lighthouse

Roma
Princess Cyd
a mix of yeah the female director challenge, but mostly movies I wanted to see, and some exploration of directors i wanted to explore (Polanski's essentials, NWR, Kar-Wai Wong, Gan Bi, Robert Eggers, Alfonso Cuaron (which i've seen one from already this month), that other Chinese arthouse director and Princess Cyd and if time is left over, i can already watch something else (but from april)

This is what i have for april
Spoiler
Spirited Away
Hotaru no Haka
My neighbor Totoro
Kiki's Delivery Service
Wolf Children
Mary and Max
Your Name
Angel's Egg
The Secret of Kells
Paprika
Tekkonkinkreet
Dead Leaves

Diarios de motocicleta
Beautiful Boy
Contratiempo
El Orfanato
El secreto de sus ojos
Perfume: Story of a Murderer
Reconstruction
Columbus
Annihilation
The Consequences of Love
Gummo
Babyteeth
Mid90s
Waves
Hunger
Samaria
Picnic at Hanging Rock
Mysterious Skin
Uncut Gems
Knives Out
Personal Shopper
Colour out of Space
Eshtebak
Don't Look Now
Liza, the fox-fairy
Witchfinder General
Network
Suspiria
Under The Silver Lake
The Rover
Wind River
A Cure for Wellness
Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer
Too Late
Possessor
Ginger Snaps
Re-animator
Dogman
The Wailing
Den Skyldige
Braindead
A Swedish Love Story
Beach Rats
Naked
Raise The Red Lantern
The Void
Oslo 31. august
The House That Jack Built
Once Upon A Time in America
mostly animation for the animation challenge, and mostly random movies i wanted to watch.

for may i already have those for the japan challenge (although i was thinking about giving some Japanese classics a try too, but since it's already filled with movies i wanted to see... it might have to wait)
Spoiler
Funeral Parade of Roses
Go Go, Second Time Virgin

Audition
Visitor Q
The Happiness of the Katakuris
Ichi The Killer
46 Okunen-no-koi

Kamikaze Girls
Memories of Matsuko
Paco and the Magical Picture Book
Confessions
Kawaki
Kuru

April Story
All About Lily chou-chou
Hana and Alice

Nobody Knows
Still Walking
Air Doll
I Wish
Our Little Sister
After The Storm
The Third Murder
Shoplifters

Suicide Circle
Strange Circus
Noriko's Dinner Table
Guilty of Romance
The Land of Hope
Tokyo Tribe
The Whispering Star
Tag
Antiporno
The Forest of Love
as well as those
Spoiler
Aguirre: The Wrath of God
Fitzcarraldo

Millennium Mambo
Café Lumière
Three Times

Bone Tomahawk
Brawl in Cell Block 99

Eraserhead
The Elephant Man
Dune
Blue Velvet
Wild Heart
Twin Peaks
Lost Highway
The Straight Story
Mulholland Dr.
Rabbits
Inland Empire

Rushmore
The Royal Tenenbaums
The Life Aquatic with Steve Zizzou
The Darjeeling Limited
Fantastic Mr. Fox
Isle of Dogs

Kynodontas
The Killing of a Sacred Deer
The Favourite

The Wind That Shakes The Barley
Sorry We Missed You

My Own Private Idaho
Gerry
Drugstore Cowboys

Being John Malkovich
Adaptation
Where The Wild Things Are
Her
But I don't always strictly follow them. I sometimes adapt a bit though. I think this is the best way to do it but i'm not sure. If i don't make those lists, i watch way less.
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#19621

Post by Dolwphin »

Lakigigar wrote: March 9th, 2021, 10:09 pm
Dolwphin wrote: March 9th, 2021, 8:30 pm I'd suggest not overdosing through exploring cinema you don't like. Obviously it is always great to expand your horizons and frame of reference, but I would rather explore genres I appreciate. It is a good organizing principle to set a narrow criteria when deciding what to see tough. I'm currently exploring 1944 and is approaching 50 seen films from that year.
But what is supposed to be a good start. What is supposed to be narrow criteria for selecting a film. I've really no idea how to start on this.
You could chose any criteria you like. There are some helpful items on ICM designed for that purpose. I think they are called lists. :o

Maybe explore brief lists, like individual S&S ballots. That should be narrow enough for your predicament.

Béla Tarr
Spoiler
Александр Невский [Alexander Nevsky] (Sergei Eisenstein, 1938)
Au hasard Balthazar [Balthazar] (Robert Bresson, 1966)
Berlin Alexanderplatz (Rainer Werner Fassbinder, 1980)
Frenzy (Alfred Hitchcock, 1972)
M (Fritz Lang, 1931)
Человек с киноаппаратом [Man With a Movie Camera] (Dziga Vertov, 1929)
La passion de Jeanne d'Arc [The Passion of Joan of Arc] (Carl Theodor Dreyer, 1928)
Szegénylegények [The Round-Up] (Jancsó Miklós, 1966)
東京物語 [Tokyo Story] (Ozu Yasujirô, 1953)
Vivre sa vie: Film en douze tableaux [My Life to Live] (Jean-Luc Godard, 1962)
Martin Scorsese
Spoiler
2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)
8½ (Federico Fellini, 1963)
Popiół i diament [Ashes and Diamonds] (Andrzej Wajda, 1958)
Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941)
Il Gattopardo [The Leopard] (Luchino Visconti, 1963)
Paisà [Paisan] (Roberto Rossellini, 1946)
The Red Shoes (Michael Powell/Emeric Pressburger, 1948)
The River (Jean Renoir, 1951)
Salvatore Giuliano (Francesco Rosi, 1962)
The Searchers (John Ford, 1956)
雨月物語 [Ugetsu] (Mizoguchi Kenji, 1953)
Vertigo (Alfred Hitchcock, 1958)
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#19622

Post by Dolwphin »

All voters in 2012 Sight & Sound Poll: https://www2.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people ... 012/voters

I can't believe it is almost 2022 already.
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#19623

Post by St. Gloede »

Lakigigar wrote: March 9th, 2021, 10:09 pm
But what is supposed to be a good start. What is supposed to be narrow criteria for selecting a film. I've really no idea how to start on this.
As Dolwphin said there is this thing called lists. ;) (l)

(I think he and 90% of the forum must have waited a decade to be able to say something like that, sorry for repeating it too, but it rolls off the tongue (l) )

-

Good to get that off my chest.

-

Now then, erm, lists ...

-

Personally, I got my start with the IMDb top 250, and once I had completed it and lost a bit of interest, TSPDT caught my eye.

With the IMDb top 250 I started with the recent films, and then I started branching out with the older films at the top - and then slowly branched out from there.

You are absolutely right that you lack social and narrative context to some degree or another. When I first got excited by 30s and 40s Hollywood films as a teenagers - i.e. noirs, Universal Horror, etc. everything felt so exciting and fresh as I just had not seen films made or told this way before - and even the 3rd and 4th sequels to Frankenstein seemed incredibly "cool". You don't know what's lazy or repeated, you don't know what should take you aback, etc.

This understanding develops over time, and is by no means a hindrance - if anything it is a plus - as everything may seem great and surprising.

In terms of social context, that's really no different from seeing a film from a culture you're not familiar with today - which may be commenting about issues or the history of that society you have no understanding off. This happens.

However, assuming you are starting with the most acclaimed films - only a few will be that tied to their social surroundings that parts may be hard to decipher. Most classical narrative films, from Casablance to Citizen Kane to Children of Paradise, etc. don't need any real degree of social or historical understanding - beyond what you would already have gotten by staying alive - and when you start watching more and more films you will quickly start to judge these films differently as well.

-

Since you have already seen a decent number of films I recommend starting with TSPDT's top 100(0) or the Forum's Top 100(0) and see the films in the genres and styles that intrigue you - and branch out if something excites you.

I.e. if you watch Citizen Kane and is blown away by how it was made, it makes sense to continue on to Welles' other masterpieces.

-

There may be some elements of history, and which mainly crop up in mid-canon films though a few came to the top - such as the feelings of '68, and times of different political sensibilities - that may be even better from knowing a certain amount of political history and theory - and the same goes for many other countries and periods - but like I said above - the same goes for other countries/cultures today.

-

Personally, I'm extremely envious, and I'm surprised you are not jumping back in time faster.

With newer films there is no real established canon yet, with films from 20+ years ago you have a clear canon of film after film you are likely to love. Tastes vary of course, but with this degree of critical consensus the success rate is usually extremely high - especially if you can single out the type of films that excite you.

For me, discovering a masterpiece by a director would be a reason to go out and buy anything available. It is a little easier now as well - so when you find something you love, it is even easier to explore more. Almost everything is available at once.

-

Anyways, TL:DR:

Start working on TSPDT/ICMForum's top 100, watch the films that interest you the most and branch out when you love something. Additional context and understanding come with time.
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#19624

Post by Lakigigar »

Yes, it's possible i might not like some films yet, but might like them more after a rewatch. If i never start with it, i'll never get the understanding or context, so sometimes you have to broaden your perspective, and while at first you might not understand everything, i believe some of them might become better after a rewatch when you have seen far more movies, and of course you have to start somewhere. Now of course i've seen already some movies. I think the oldest movie that I really, really, really liked so far is Rear Window from Alfred Hitchcock in 1954, although I also quite like Los olvidados from 1950 from Luis Bunuel (but it's not fresh in my head anymore). And I also liked Vertigo and Psycho which weren't made much later than Rear Window, and all three are essentially among the oldest movies i've seen that are among my favs. Of course, Hitchcock might actually be quite accessible, and so might some western movies and perhaps Billy Wilder, but we will see about that. Akira Kurosawa is also someone who I could enjoy.

From IMDb top 250, i have to see these ones:
Spoiler
The Godfather part II (and sort of rewatching I and while i'm at it, supposedly watching III too)
Seven Samurai
It's a Wonderful Life
Seppuku
Modern Times
City Lights
Casablanca
Cinema Paradiso
Hamilton
Paths of Glory
Sunset Blvd.
Witness for the Prosecution
Spider-Man: Into The Spiderverse
Once Upon A Time in America
Kimi no na wa.
Das Boot
Tengoku to jigoku
3 Idiots
Amadeus
Taare Zameen Par
M - Eine Stadt sucht einen Mörder
Dangal
Singin' in the Rain
Ladri di biciclette
The Kid
Idi i smotri
North by Northwest
Ikiru
Lawrence of Arabia
The Sting
Metropolis
To Kill a Mockingbird
L.A. Confidential
Green Book
Monty Python and the Holy Grail
Yojinbo
Rashomon
Bacheha-Ye aseman
Unforgiven
Ran
Some Like It Hot
All About Eve
The Great Escape
There Will Be Blood
The Secret In Your Eyes
Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels
Judgment at Nuremberg
Tonari no Totoro
The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
Dial M for Murder
The Gold Rush
Chinatown
Babam ve Oglum
The Elephant Man
Det Sjunde Insgelet
Warrior
Klaus
Gone with the Wind
Stalker
Smultronstället
Salinui chueok
The Bridge on the River Kwai
Gran Torino
Tôkyô monogatari
The Third Man
On The Waterfront
The Deer Hunter
In The Name of the Father
Mary and Max
Persona
Andhadhun
Sherlock Jr.
To Be Or Not To Be
Barry Lyndon
The General
Höstsonaten
Ford v Ferrari
Anand
Eskiya
Ratsasan
Mr Smith Goes To Washington
Mad Max: Fury Road (as well as Mad Max 1, 2 and 3)
Dead Poets Society
Stand By Me
Network
Ben-Hur
Cool Hand Luke
Logan (and all X-Men related films)
Platoon
Soul
Life of Brian
Les quatre cent coups
Amores Perros
Gangs of Wasseypur
Andrey Rubiev
Rocky
Rebecca
Kaze no tani no Naushika
Dom za vesanje
Du Rififi chez les hommes
Rang de Basanti
Drisyam
Portrait de la jeune fille en feu
It Happened One Night
Koe no Katachi
Contratiempo
(another) Drishyam
La battaglia di Algieri
Shin seiki Evangelion Gekijô-ban: Air/Magokoro wo, kimi ni
Some of them have to be rewatched too, but that will happen eventually. The thing is...
1. Not looking forward to a lot of movies, so I guess i'll first prioritize completing IMDb top 100 and all the other ones from the top 250 i want to see
2. There are other top 250 lists that are sort of interesting, Reddit top 250 (but this has a strong recency bias), Fok! top 250 (but the userbase might be a bit small, but it's an interesting list for me), and Moviemeter top 250 as well as perhaps Filmtotaal 100, although a lot of those have basically the same movies in their top 100 or top 250 and I also believe IMDb top 250 is the one where i have the least checks from in terms of percentage from all the lists i have mentioned.

So all of the Indian, Pakistanese and Turkish ones in the list, not gonna happen.

So instead of completing them, i'll work on them but... i won't complete them, because I think it's much better to when you get to a point of seen 220 / 230 movies to already make the switch to other lists I believe. There's always time later to watch the ones you don't want to see. And IMDb top 250 is also quite a dynamic list. Doesn't make sense to complete them when you might have 20 new unchecked movies after 1 year.

I'll make the IMDb top 250 (and MM top 250 and Fok! top 250 and Reddit top 250) a focus this summer I suppose). But I have some of them planned this spring. (Once Upon A Time in America, Mary and Max, Portrait of a Lady on Fire, Your Name. and some Ghibli's for the animation challenge), but that's about it, i think.

If i've done that... i'll slowly work onto TSPDT top 1000, ICM' s forum top 1000 and MM top 1000, as wel as probably TSPDT 21st century top 1000 and perhaps also TSZDT top 1000, Tom Vilsack's Asian List, and some lists focusing on more recent movies incl. our own top 250 of the 2010's (and perhaps 2000's, and we will soon have the one from the 21st century, but again a lot of these are actually overlapping lists).

So currently i have these stats:
IMDb top 250: 138 / 250
Moviemeter top 250: 141 / 250
Reddit top 250: 165 / 250
Fok! top 250: 157 / 250
MovieSense 101: 73 / 101
Filmtotaal top 100: 80 / 100
ICM top 1001: 251 / 1000
Moviemeter top 1000: 408 / 1000
TSPDT top 1000: 129 / 1005
TSPDT 1001-2000: 76 / 1000
TSPDT 21st century: 251 / 1001
TSZDT: 105 / 1000
Tom Vick's Asian list: 21 / 847

The most interesting list by far is Moviemeter top 1000, because users there on an aggregate seem to have a more similar taste than I have (Onderhond also has lots of influence of that list), and it also has a strong recency bias, which partly explains why i've seen so much more movies from that list than from the others, but overall it is a great list. I think a MM + ICM collab list would be AMAZING

I've now seen 951 movies (and ICM and MM are not in sync, they're off by about 10 movies, it's been a while i've imported some movies from IMDb, but they've always been out of sync, so IMDb and MM are also out of sync, so it will take a while to check what the problem is, but I believe the movies that aren't synced, are really low-profile movies, or perhaps movies that aren't on ICM (i suppose?)

I have 952 votes on IMDb, 951 votes on MM, but only 945 checks on ICM. I'll import my IMDb votes again, perhaps i've missed something or perhaps some movies aren't on ICM which is a possibility.

My point was, i've seen 951 movies and 408 of them are on the MM top 1000 list, which is a ridicilously high percentage, i believe. It's like 30 to 40% of all movies I watch are in the MM top 1000.

EDIT: Solved the issue. 10 movies were added, apparently only 941 existing checks were found, so 10 new ones, 4 of them being official (yeaaj), but none on them are particularly outstanding checks, but they're nice to have. (i think 4 of them are deleted as well, but i'm not sure what ones, so that's why 10 were added, because 4 checks on ICM were not found on IMDb lol, not sure what ones, but some of them might have been tv-series and i actually don't rate them on IMDb, but I might do that soon, because Moviemeter will update to a TV-series + film platform and it will be more convenient to do it that way and rate both (but no episodes), and some tv-series or miniseries are also considered to be films in some lists, so I suppose it couldn't hurt. I still gained a net of 3 official checks, so 1 official check was deleted apparently (and it might have been Rango I think, which was a film I saw a long time ago like 8-9 yrs ago, and now think i didn't finish or at least only watched parts from it, but i'm not sure). Eitherway, i'm not checking it again, because I don't think i feels right to check it.. if you don't know it anymore (or if it's been 8-9 years ago). I remember my dad and his girlfriend watched it because it was a Johnny Depp movie, but i think they turned off because they disliked it both (and neither did i like it so far). So it's better unchecked.

Alien Planet
American Chaos
Bad Trip
Evan Almighty
Hansel & Gretel: Witch Hunters
Morgan
The Mountain Between Us
Pokémon: Detective Pikachu
Rescue Dawn
Snow White and the Huntsman
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#19625

Post by Lakigigar »

Also, i am also amazed by the status of Spring Breakers.

I would actually expect that movie to have a much higher rating on movie websites, but also to be less likely accepted by cinephiles and it's vice versa. It has an IMDb rating of 5,2 or 5,3 and it's in the Cahiers du Cinema annual lists, and pretty high up on the TSPDT 21st century.

I know some said it's very metaphorical or some kind of allegory and I can see it, but is that the only reason it's named in all those lists. I see it sort as audiovisual exploitation, which I generally like, but I also liked the theme, contents of the movies, and really liked the humor and the characters, and sort of an contemporary generation movie, like a depiction of Gen Z without judgment. Some said it's very critical to Gen Z, but I don't see it that much. But it's still one of my fav movies. But i'm really confused by the critical reception of Spring Breakers, and also the rejection on the more massive user filmdatabase websites.

Also if you check in detail about the ratings system, it's especially very much divided into love / hate among the female demographic. Much more 1/10's than with males, but also much more 10/10's with females, regardless of age, although among the among older generations, both in male & female demographics, you see higher percentages who strongly dislike that movie. Do some people it's misogynistic, while a lot of people also more identify with that movie?

There's also much more a love / hate divide with US voters, but perhaps that's the case with every movie, because it seems more common with more mainstream kind of people to only give 10's or 1's.
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#19626

Post by St. Gloede »

I'm not surprised. Similarly to say Only God Forgives, Spring Breakers is not really made for mainstream tastes, but still promoted to a mainstream audience with big, recognizable faces. That rarely ends up going well, as there is a clash between what they want/expect and what they get. Both films are broadly speaking arthouse films, that are enhancing a visceral experience through dreamlike visuals - this first and foremost appeals to critics, not general audiences.
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#19627

Post by Lakigigar »

Yes but I don't consider Spring Breakers to be an arthouse movie, like, it just doesn't feel like one. I absolutely love it, and much more, but for most of the arthouse movies i don't feel that vibe (although visceral experience through dreamlike visuals sound exactly like what I love).

It has only been seen around 80.000 times (or at least 80.000x times rated on IMDb), but my friends generally have a mainstream taste too, and my best friend mostly likes comedy (like Big Bang Theory or stoner comedies, basically everything that is some sort of modern comedy) or mainstream movies / sometimes also trashy movies (although he dislikes the superhero genre), like just a mainstream gen Z taste (but leaning towards comedy, stoner comedy and rap/hiphop, reggae, and dub taste for music). But he absolutely loves Spring Breakers, and he also said The Beach Bum is one of his favourite movies (it's a stoner comedy but it's also directed by Harmony Korine).

So he might have a mainstream taste, but i'm sure while he might not have ever heard from the name Korine that he might actually be his favourite director lol. He's also been a huge fan of Gladiator also, but also like movies Harold & Kumar go to White Castle, PIneapple Express, The Hangover, This is the End, The Wolf of Wall Street and Dude Where's My Car. He is a big fan of Jonah Hill and Seth Rogen, and those kind of actors.

But i'm sure Spring Breakers and The Beach Bum are among his all-time top favourite movies, because in january, he said to me that i should see The Beach Bum because it's the best movie he has seen in ages.
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#19628

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

Spring Breakers is a subversive film. That's why it gives that mainstream demeanour on the surface, but when you look at its commentary of hedonism and the fact that women are the ones always in control it's no wonder that the mainstream hates it. I lost count with how many walkouts there were when I saw it in theatres
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#19629

Post by Lakigigar »

;)
Pretentious Hipster wrote: March 10th, 2021, 3:10 pm Spring Breakers is a subversive film. That's why it gives that mainstream demeanour on the surface, but when you look at its commentary of hedonism and the fact that women are the ones always in control it's no wonder that the mainstream hates it. I lost count with how many walkouts there were when I saw it in theatres
I don't think that's the reason, because few people will get "the subversive message" in that movie. Perhaps that's what Korine was trying to do with it, but I disagree if he has that message (or at least it's commentary of hedonism), although if you look at The Beach Bum you could be right about it, because it's quite similar to Spring Breakers in that regard in terms of message. But I don't think that's how people look at cinema. Perhaps you look that way at cinema (and i don't know disagree or agree with it), but the mainstream audience really doesn't care about message.

And if the critics like it because it's a subversive film with that kind of commentary on hedonism, than I also disagree very strongly with them, and can sympathize more with the hedonists, because ... I believe strongly in hedonism, like i'm very depressive myself... If you reject hedonism, than everyone might become like me, and the entire society will be much more toxic (much more babyboomer like and Trump-figures will rise), although i'm friendly and helpful (but i don't recommend depression and being that critical or demanding of yourself to other people), so if anything, i should relax more and be much more of a hedonist, go to music festivals, go out and party, and don't set such standards on myself. Like what is the point of life, if no hedonism is allowed...

If that's the message of the film, than I strongly disagree with it. But some people look at a film, and see in all films a message, and I believe if i look at film through such a lens, i will dislike every film I see, because I will disagree with 95 to 99% of messages. Usually i don't see a message in a film, unless it's quite obvious, like in Nightcrawler, where I agree with the message.

I like more experience-based films with a director that observes & capture instead of pushing a narrative, message or philosophical meaning through it. Someone who stays afloat, someone who narrates but don't judge.

I don't think some movies are meant to be watched like that.
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#19630

Post by Lakigigar »

If you think about it: The Lion King is a movie that strongly advocates monarchy and dictatorships. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs show sexual assault on women. Pinocchio's message would be disgusting as well (and it depicts heavy smoking by a child which alone is already controversial enough, even if it's not advocated for, because it was "naughty" behaviour, but it's anti-"let children be children" and advocates authoritarian nurture). The Smurfs is advocation of a communist system with one leader, no females with 1 exception, antisemitism (Gargamel being the jew), and no monetary system. Promising Young Woman is extremely negative on all men and depicts that we are sexual offenders (that's how it felt for me), it makes a point, but it also attacks the healthy apples and generalizes all men. Elysium advocates anti-capitalist and anti-elite revolts. Joker is anti-establishment and also anti-elite and has a very strong layer about where that sentiment comes from, but some might also find that movie disgusting because of it. District 9 might be an allegory of what is wrong with immigration and ghetto-building. Someone argued Capharnaum advocates eugenetics. Avengers 3 + 4 might have a controversial message too, or at least for the ones who believe we have overpopulation now.

I mean i feel uncomfortable with many "supposed" messages, and it annoys me that people create philosophical meanings when there are none to be made. Do you really think the makers of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs intended sexual assault to be shown? It's a fairytale. But sure, there will be some calls not for it to be shown to children, because it's sexual assault. Like, come on.

That's also why it feels so annoying that people say that Tarantino and Refn advocate for violence and are both anti-misogynist (or Ki-duk Kim as well, because we know now that he has most likely sexually harrassed woman in the past - i don't know the exact story - and this puts his films in a different perspective).

But if we all do that with every movie. What movie will survive. I'll tell you: none.

Few directors will push a narrative through your throat (OR I HOPE SO), unless they say so in interviews. The director's role or the role of the makers is to let us "observe", to let us "experience" "to let us indulge and absorb yourself into an experience, into a different timeline, into new perspectives and see things from that new perspective that might enrichen your view of the world and existence". Movies are mostly made for entertainment, or to understand certain views better and understand where they're coming from. But i hate it when people say that a director or maker pushes a certain narrative through our throats, and most of them have been disgusting too.

I rate movies on "did i entertain myself"-value more than any other criteria, and perhaps entertainment is differently defined for me than for other people, because I see arthouse movies as entertainment primarily too (i don't know why but it is like that). I like it to broaden my perspectives and experience something I couldn't experience myself or enrichen myself with more views, more experiences and more information. I'm not someone who narrows everything to one consensus, i'm someone who widens my view and perspective. It's not the details that matter, it's the big picture that does, and we need to look at different perspective from things, because we all limited to our own senses, our own experiences, our own brains and our own bodies, and what we literally see (on tv, outside, how we grew up, what we're being teached), but most important what we didn't see, what we didn't experience and what we weren't teached or learned through education, or through our parents or whatever. We are limited by our own sense, by our own eyes, and we have to trust our eyes to survive, but those eyes might not give the complete big picture. Otherwise, we would still believe the Earth or the Sun was the center of the universe. There are lots of things in the universe we can't see, there are lots of experiences we can't experience (and perhaps it's better that way, because some things you don't want to experience). We are limited by structure, by being too narrow-defined and so on, and you see that clearly in society.

So don't try to make an all-compact wide definition of how you look at the world, but try to amaze yourself and open yourself from new things and new ideas and new experiences, even up to the limit that it might make you feel comfortable, because that's how it works and especially how people will view our generation from the future or how we look at people who lived in medieval ages or the classic period.
Last edited by Lakigigar on March 10th, 2021, 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#19631

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

Hmm... almost like you can make interpretations of films based on your experience with them. Also, most directors push a narrative. Even ones that seem neutral on the surface AKA Frederick Wiseman.

"Movies are mostly made for entertainment, or to understand certain views better and understand where they're coming from." Isn't understand certain views better and where they're coming from a form of pushing a narrative?
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#19632

Post by Lakigigar »

But do you have to intensely dislike movie because you dislike the narrative a director pushes, even though you're not sure the director meant it that way.

Narratives don't have to be taken so seriously, but in some cases movies are shown to better experience a certain point of view, but i prefer no judgments. Those movies also tend to survive for a longer time I suppose, because they'll still be watchable when the entire mindset of humans might change, while other messages might feel very dated.
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#19633

Post by kongs_speech »

What even is happening right now?
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#19634

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

kongs_speech wrote: March 10th, 2021, 4:31 pm What even is happening right now?
I don't even know...

Anyways, I never said I don't have to agree with the message either, just that I saw Spring Breakers as a commentary on hedonism? I am confused as hell.

I am tired of people who judge a film by its morals too. You just seem inconsistent with your views that films shouldn't push a narrative, and then say that it shows different views which is exactly what pushing a narrative is.

Watching films with different views, especially foreign films, are what initially made me "woke"

Also, since I probably have to make it clear, I don't just seek narrative aspects of a film. You're talking to someone who has 2 plotless avant-garde shorts in his all time top 10. I think an aspect that a film focuses on is the most important aspect that you should judge it by.
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#19635

Post by Onderhond »

Pretentious Hipster wrote: March 10th, 2021, 4:22 pm Also, most directors push a narrative.
I wonder about that. I think many people are a little too keen to read things into narratives/choices a director made.
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#19636

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

Onderhond wrote: March 10th, 2021, 4:58 pm
Pretentious Hipster wrote: March 10th, 2021, 4:22 pm Also, most directors push a narrative.
I wonder about that. I think many people are a little too keen to read things into narratives.
Makes sense to me as it is the most straightforward aspect that people can latch onto and make their own interpretations of it. Of course, there is stuff like atmosphere, editing, and mis-en-scene, etc that showcases these as well, but I guess those are more inaccessible.

I'm just stunned right now that this was the take they got. I literally care about narrative the least in films...
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#19637

Post by Lakigigar »

Pretentious Hipster wrote: March 10th, 2021, 4:57 pm
kongs_speech wrote: March 10th, 2021, 4:31 pm What even is happening right now?
I don't even know...

Anyways, I never said I don't have to agree with the message either, just that I saw Spring Breakers as a commentary on hedonism? I am confused as hell.

I am tired of people who judge a film by its morals too. You just seem inconsistent with your views that films shouldn't push a narrative, and then say that it shows different views which is exactly what pushing a narrative is.

Watching films with different views, especially foreign films, are what initially made me "woke"

Also, since I probably have to make it clear, I don't just seek narrative aspects of a film. You're talking to someone who has 2 plotless avant-garde shorts in his all time top 10. I think an aspect that a film focuses on is the most important aspect that you should judge it by.
But you misunderstood me. I never said i condemn your view. I never said i didn't agree with you. I noticed you said Spring Breakers is a commentary on hedonism, but indeed you didn't make it clear whether you agree with that commentary or not. I was talking about the people who like the film exactly because of it's commentary, but you weren't part of it. You were the catalyst who brought it up that way, but your view is not the thing i have criticism on. It's more targeted towards general audiences and general narrative-pushing and general seeking understanding of a movie.
Onderhond wrote: March 10th, 2021, 4:58 pm
Pretentious Hipster wrote: March 10th, 2021, 4:22 pm Also, most directors push a narrative.
I wonder about that. I think many people are a little too keen to read things into narratives/choices a director made.
Yes, i think that's the point I was trying to make, but I also believe mainstream audiences mostly don't do that (I think), but (SOME) cinephiles will.

I like Spring Breakers not because of it's commentary on hedonism. I like it because I like it (and perhaps the experience itself, the audiovisual magnifence, everything just feels so good and beautiful about it). It's a movie i can watch an endless number of times.
Last edited by Lakigigar on March 10th, 2021, 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#19638

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

Fair enough, sorry about that.

I don't agree with a hedonistic lifestyle, but I can see its attraction. Life is empty and pointless, so hedonists want to make the most of it with fun yet meaningless pleasures.
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#19639

Post by Onderhond »

Pretentious Hipster wrote: March 10th, 2021, 4:59 pm Makes sense to me as it is the most straightforward aspect that people can latch onto and make their own interpretations of it. Of course, there is stuff like atmosphere, editing, and mis-en-scene, etc that showcases these as well, but I guess those are more inaccessible.
I guess it's a matter of wording. To me there's a difference between "the director meant X" and "to me the film is about X". You could maybe argue that's a given, but I don't think many people see it like that. (unlike how reviews are always subjective by default)
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#19640

Post by Pretentious Hipster »

Onderhond wrote: March 10th, 2021, 5:05 pm
Pretentious Hipster wrote: March 10th, 2021, 4:59 pm Makes sense to me as it is the most straightforward aspect that people can latch onto and make their own interpretations of it. Of course, there is stuff like atmosphere, editing, and mis-en-scene, etc that showcases these as well, but I guess those are more inaccessible.
I guess it's a matter of wording. To me there's a difference between "the director meant X" and "to me the film is about X". You could maybe argue that's a given, but I don't think many people see it like that. (unlike how reviews are always subjective by default)
The great thing about films. Sometimes the director does it, sometimes you interpret it, sometimes it's both. Starship Troopers is a perfect example of the latter to me.
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